40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**ClockworkZion**

"You can fight up a floor" was mentioned as a side buff to monsters so it sounds that the rule will (generally) be fight up/down a single floor.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

bullyboy wrote:
Several online BR channels (with one especially that is now known to be a playtester) have said that they 'thought" Codex Space marines 2.0 and Sisters of battle "felt" like 9th edition codexes compared to others. Just the way the armies were organized to encourage mono play. So it's not unrealistic to believe that some of the content of the PA Books was created with 9th in mind.

In mind? Sure. When 9th was finished and ready to be shipped? Not likely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apparently a big 9th ed design element was "how to do we give people meaningful choices to make?"

**Doohicky**

Invictor Warsuit will love this change. Loads of chaff clearing style weapons and decent CC.
I think this change powers them up massively

**H.B.M.C.**

-1 To Hit for firing Heavy Weapons only applies to infantry now... hmm...

Maybe Forgefiends will be viable?

**ClockworkZion**

Terrain density will break up LoS across the table, meaning vehicles will move more.

-1 to hit when moving heavy weapons only applies to Infantry.

**KurtAngle2**

Vehicles and CM now ignore Heavy Penalty...about time!

**ERJAK**

tneva82 wrote:
Ragnar69 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
And above all some of the best stuff will be left out so everybody has inclination to buy PA books still if they didn't have already. Why sell 1 book when you can sell 2?

The People that haven't bought PA yet are probably not that competitive that they would really be concerned about missing a good rule or two. And new players will probably never know that they miss something. So I really don't see any conspiracy on GWs side t9 sell more PAs

You really expect new player to army not hear about book on sale? Especially in GW stores when the staff will be doing market speech...

And this isn't just noob players but any veteran who starts new army. Might be shocking to you but existing players do start new armies and shock horror not everybody buys PA book "just in case" when they release. For me books 1, 2, 3 and 4 were 100% pointless with my current armies. However if I start say blood angels or tyranids I would need to get PA.

There's no harm for GW to keep some stuff out of codex and in separate book to be sold to players.

Not that many people who WOULD buy PA for just the rules actually do buy PA. All of the rules in those books are easily locate-able through things like battlescribe, 1d4chan, reviews, forums, cool guys at your FLGS, etc. I don't have marine PA and I use its rules all the time. It's only people who are 100% sure they're going to get into a heated rules argument at an event and need the actual paper rules to show the TO that actually NEED to buy these books.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Tanks AND Monsters today.

Tanks/monsters can shoot at a unit that's engaged with them @ -1 to hit.

No blast weapons in melee range.

You can declare targets even outside of things you're in combat with, but if you can't kill the unit you're engaged with then you can't shoot the units you declared against who you're not engaged with.

Example: A Leman Russ declares it's flamers against hormagaunts and its battle cannon on something else, if the hormagaunts don't all die then the battle cannon can't shoot the other target.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadnoughts, and Deff Dreads were both named as being able to shoot and fight in melee, as were Daemon Engines, so it looks to apply to all vehicles and monsters.

Kinda sucks for Mortifiers, even less reason to take the flamers now that them being able to be pistol type is irrelevant.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
-1 To Hit for firing Heavy Weapons only applies to infantry now... hmm...

Maybe Forgefiends will be viable?

Certainly can’t see it harming them any.

And taken with the ‘kick combatants in the teeth and still shoot them’ definitely favours the like of Forgefiends. Possibly to the exclusion of Maulerfiends (I think that’s what it’s called?) if nothing else factors in.

**ERJAK**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Terrain density will break up LoS across the table, meaning vehicles will move more.

-1 to hit when moving heavy weapons only applies to Infantry.

Yeah, cause that worked so well for the Ironhands supplement.

**ClockworkZion**

ERJAK wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Terrain density will break up LoS across the table, meaning vehicles will move more.

-1 to hit when moving heavy weapons only applies to Infantry.

Yeah, cause that worked so well for the Ironhands supplement.

Well now everyone has it. Which honestly might bring vehicles back into the game properly again.

**Tyel**

All fairly reasonable rules. The rub will be when they are not pointed correctly.

**ClockworkZion**

Summary nicked off B&C:

- notes by Joe#0064 on the Warhammer 40K Discord.

===== RULES =====

- tanks can now shoot into combat. They may engage units within an inch as well. -1 to hit if you're shooting with your Tank/Monster at something you're in combat with. You can't fire blast weapons either.

- reasons for change; as an example, it was frustrating and immersion breaking that a Nurgling could stop a Land Raider firing in combat. Ultimately, for balance and narrative reasons.

- Monsters benefit from the changes to fighting in buildings; e.g. a squad of Guardsman on the first floor is no longer safe from the Hive Tyrant eye-level to them.

- Stu Black; "Tyranids and Imperial Guard will benefit greatly from the new rules. In general, anything that is a mechanised force or able to field plenty of monsters."

- "sticking a model together because it looks great" is less of an issue now. Specialised / general loadouts on models are much more useful.

- the changes should encourage more dynamic / mobile play, as opposed to "WW1 bunkers engaging each other at a distance."

- challenges; changes to terrain make it harder to get a clear view of the battlefield, so units will need to move around more.

- -1 to hit for moving and firing a heavy weapon only applies to infantry.

- Stu Black; "with the new CP / Detachments I think we'll see more vehicle/monster-heavy armies as a result."

- Eddie Eccles; "people have rightfully pointed out that the Land Raider (and variants) will benefit greatly from the changes."

**H.B.M.C.**

Shame they didn't answer any of the questions that were in the comments, like whether infantry in open-topped vehicles will be able to help.

**ClockworkZion**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Shame they didn't answer any of the questions that were in the comments, like whether infantry in open-topped vehicles will be able to help.

They haven't really been answering many questions lately at all.

**H.B.M.C.**

They used "of" to finish a sentence. Ick!

**CthuluIsSpy**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Summary nicked off B&C:

- -1 to hit for moving and firing a heavy weapon only applies to infantry.

Oh finally. It should have been like that to begin with.

**Kanluwen**

Personal hope:
Cognis weapons get to ignore the -1 while engaged.

**BaconCatBug**

So if I am in Engagement Range, only heavy weapons suffer a penalty and not Rapid Fire or Assault weapons?

**ERJAK**

ClockworkZion wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Terrain density will break up LoS across the table, meaning vehicles will move more.

-1 to hit when moving heavy weapons only applies to Infantry.

Yeah, cause that worked so well for the Ironhands supplement.

Well now everyone has it. Which honestly might bring vehicles back into the game properly again.

Not vehicles in general, just the ones that were already borderline. Look for WAY MORE flyer spam, untouchable annhiliation barges, Wave serpents everywhere, etc. All else equal, Armies with a large vehicle selection like Eldar, guard, and marines will see a massive buff while armies like SoB, Harlies, and Orkz(large selection of vehicles, not that many heavy weapons), will see almost no benefit.

Obviously the rest of the systems inlcuding terrain rules, points bumps, etc, will certainly modulate the impact this change has on the game overall, it is certainly something to be aware of going forward.

**addnid**

Behold the rise of the acid fex (50% this, 50% smaller tables)

**puma713**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So if I am in Engagement Range, only heavy weapons suffer a penalty and not Rapid Fire or Assault weapons?

That's the way it reads.

**Galas**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So if I am in Engagement Range, only heavy weapons suffer a penalty and not Rapid Fire or Assault weapons?

it kinda makes sense. Most assault or rapid fire weapons vehicles and monsters have are normally auxiliary weapons.

ERJAK wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Terrain density will break up LoS across the table, meaning vehicles will move more.

-1 to hit when moving heavy weapons only applies to Infantry.

Yeah, cause that worked so well for the Ironhands supplement.

Well now everyone has it. Which honestly might bring vehicles back into the game properly again.

Not vehicles in general, just the ones that were already borderline. Look for WAY MORE flyer spam, untouchable annhiliation barges, Wave serpents everywhere, etc. All else equal, Armies with a large vehicle selection like Eldar, guard, and marines will see a massive buff while armies like SoB, Harlies, and Orkz(large selection of vehicles, not that many heavy weapons), will see almost no benefit.

Obviously the rest of the systems inlcuding terrain rules, points bumps, etc, will certainly modulate the impact this change has on the game overall, it is certainly something to be aware of going forward.

With the limit of minuses to hit eldar flyer spam is heavely nerfed. The vehicles that were good, are good with or without the -1 to hit for moving with heavy weapons, but theres a TON of vehicles out there that were trash because of that. Many shooting ork ones, demon engines, many imperial guard ones, etc... nearly everything that had a BS of 4+ or 5+ and heavy weapons.

**Doohicky**

I'm happy with most of what I have heard so far.

As a DG player it's great that my Daemon vehicles can move up and fire without needing 5s to hit.

Bit more dissapointed though that my Landraider is still not really viable as the Chaos version is just not dakka enough to remove chaff units that tag it.

Also, will DG have their battleforged rules changed? Now the ignore move and fire penalty is completely useless. Off the top of my head the only infantry heavy Weapon is a reaper autocannon on Terminators.

I'm sure 9th will affect other armies in a similar way

**BaconCatBug**

Galas wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
So if I am in Engagement Range, only heavy weapons suffer a penalty and not Rapid Fire or Assault weapons?

it kinda makes sense. Most assault or rapid fire weapons vehicles and monsters have are normally auxiliary weapons.

I agree. I like it.

**ClockworkZion**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So if I am in Engagement Range, only heavy weapons suffer a penalty and not Rapid Fire or Assault weapons?

Looks like it. LRC is looking better all the time.

**H.B.M.C.**

ERJAK wrote:
... while armies like SoB... will see almost no benefit.

You don't think Sisters benefit from this? Immolators can keep firing even when engaged in combat.

**CthuluIsSpy**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So if I am in Engagement Range, only heavy weapons suffer a penalty and not Rapid Fire or Assault weapons?

It would seem so. It seems pretty clear.
Their new rules seem a lot more wordy, almost like a legal document. I guess they took the old "Rules Lawyer" joke seriously this time.

**Doctor-boom**

You know, that sound like there could be some use to baal predator or land raider redeemer now. They dont have to worry about being close to the enemy now, shooting the flamers/inferno canon in melee is kinda Brutal...

**BaconCatBug**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
... while armies like SoB... will see almost no benefit.
You don't think Sisters benefit from this? Immolators can keep firing even when engaged in combat.

Yeah if anything Immolators are even better than they are now (assuming they fix that issue).

**Not Online!!!**

heck a hades AC helldrake might actually be worth it?
and a forgefiend?
Depends alot on the pricing but still?

**Dudeface**

I appreciate it might change but decimators running around 10" or whatever their move is with a disco lord hitting on 2's just became an interesting option