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wouldn't it have been easier to skip dice rolling at all and just say that blast weapons have 1 attack against >6 models, 3 attacks against 6-10 models and 6 attacks against 11+ models?

Will be interesting to see if/how other new rules interact with this. For example, the rules for woods terrain could reduce the number of hits from blast weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:
wouldn't it have been easier to skip dice rolling at all and just say that blast weapons have 1 attack against >6 models, 3 attacks against 6-10 models and 6 attacks against 11+ models?

Some blast weapons roll D3, 2D6, 3D6, etc

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

If such a weapon exists then yes it sounds like it.

 kodos wrote:
wouldn't it have been easier to skip dice rolling at all and just say that blast weapons have 1 attack against >6 models, 3 attacks against 6-10 models and 6 attacks against 11+ models?

Nope. Because they're bringing back small and large blast via this rule. Small blasts cap at 3, large cap at 6.

GW logic: I shoot a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar (Heavy 4D6) at 10 Boyz and I might only get 4 attacks, but if I shoot at 11 Boyz I magically get 24 attacks. (Assuming a Mortar becomes a Blast Weapon, which it should).

They mentioned the Blast weapon applies weapons firing Xd3 shots like Volcano Cannons.

Looking at the quoted rule, it looks like it does the max 9 shots at 6+ too since any ones or twos get treated as threes.


EDIT: Got it wrong. Instead the Volcano Cannon gets no benefit till 11+.

 bullyboy wrote:
Actually really like the blast rule. When it comes to random shots vs large enemies with a fragmentation type weapon, rolling a 1 is simply dumb. This is much better.

I like the blast rule as well. The super swingy nature of certain big guns made them virtually useless (I mean who was bringing Demolishers or Vindicators with any level of regularity in 8th?).

I just wish they'd done something with flamers.

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

No, it would get minimum 2 attacks, the rule states rolls of 1 or 2 are treated as a 3, which on a d3 becomes a result of a 2.

 Asmodai wrote:
They mentioned the Blast weapon applies weapons firing Xd3 shots like Volcano Cannons.

Looking at the quoted rule, it looks like it does the max 9 shots at 6+ too since any ones or twos get treated as threes.

That isn't what the Blast rule says. Read it again.


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warl0rdb0b wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

No, it would get minimum 2 attacks, the rule states rolls of 1 or 2 are treated as a 3, which on a d3 becomes a result of a 2.

A roll of 2 (on a D6 simulating a D3 that is 3 or 4) is treated as a 3. Read the 8th edition FAQs to see how GW treats D3s

the_scotsman wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

Yes, but specifically ONLY 1d3 - they said that the result of the roll, not the result of the dice, needs to be less than 3.

So a weapon with a profile of, say, 3d3, gains no benefit from the "6 or more" part of the roll - the minimum result of the roll is already 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Terrain deets tomorrow. Really looking forward to that, finally some info we don't already *mostly* have.

Excellent spot. So volcano cannon as an example... It basically gets zero benefit until targetting squads of 11 or more models? At which time it jumps to 9 attacks.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

If such a weapon exists then yes it sounds like it.

I mean there are a bunch of d3 shot weapons...


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warl0rdb0b wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

No, it would get minimum 2 attacks, the rule states rolls of 1 or 2 are treated as a 3, which on a d3 becomes a result of a 2.

This is wrong in two ways.

1, a 1-2 on a d3 is treated as a 1.

2, the whole rule refers only to the RESULT of the roll, and has nothing to do with the numbers on the dice themselves. the result of the roll becomes a 3.

So D3 shots vs 6 models = 3 shots no matter what.

So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

the_scotsman wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
So blast weapons that do D3 attacks get max attacks on groups of 6 or more?

If such a weapon exists then yes it sounds like it.

I mean there are a bunch of d3 shot weapons...

Yes, but are they blast?
I think even the Doomsday Cannon on low power is Heavy D6.

Of course, this all assuming that GW will not update the weapon profiles to go with the new rules, so it could very well be that any hypothetical D3 blast weapon gets changed to D6 blast.


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 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW logic: I shoot a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar (Heavy 4D6) at 10 Boyz and I might only get 4 attacks, but if I shoot at 11 Boyz I magically get 24 attacks. (Assuming a Mortar becomes a Blast Weapon, which it should).

Yeah, it should be that each dice rolled counts as having a minimal score of 3, but in the rule it clearly says minimum 3.
Not sure how I feel about the blast rule.
Its better than what we have now, but I feel that it needs a little more fine tuning.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW logic: I shoot a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar (Heavy 4D6) at 10 Boyz and I might only get 4 attacks, but if I shoot at 11 Boyz I magically get 24 attacks. (Assuming a Mortar becomes a Blast Weapon, which it should).

Wow, mister I always complain about bad editing doesn't read rule very well. In your example, min number of attacks would be 12

 bullyboy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW logic: I shoot a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar (Heavy 4D6) at 10 Boyz and I might only get 4 attacks, but if I shoot at 11 Boyz I magically get 24 attacks. (Assuming a Mortar becomes a Blast Weapon, which it should).

Wow, mister I always complain about bad editing doesn't read rule very well. In your example, min number of attacks would be 12

No, it wouldn't. Read the rule again. It says "it always make a minimum of 3 attacks" not that the minimum value of each dice is 3.

 bullyboy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW logic: I shoot a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar (Heavy 4D6) at 10 Boyz and I might only get 4 attacks, but if I shoot at 11 Boyz I magically get 24 attacks. (Assuming a Mortar becomes a Blast Weapon, which it should).

Wow, mister I always complain about bad editing doesn't read rule very well. In your example, min number of attacks would be 12

I usually never say anything about this, but I feel curious today. Why even bother to answer some of the worst haters in the forum ?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So blast weapons become useless agaisnt vehicles and monsters?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So Volcano Cannons should get 1 shot when aimed at a Titan?

 Galas wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So blast weapons become useless agaisnt vehicles and monsters?

Yes


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 xttz wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So Volcano Cannons should get 1 shot when aimed at a Titan?

Anti-Titan weapons and some others would need to be changed, yes. Or ya know, not make Volcano Cannons blast weapons.

 xttz wrote:

 kodos wrote:
wouldn't it have been easier to skip dice rolling at all and just say that blast weapons have 1 attack against >6 models, 3 attacks against 6-10 models and 6 attacks against 11+ models?

Some blast weapons roll D3, 2D6, 3D6, etc

?
fixed attacks per shot depending on the unit size is not different than 3D6, you just don't roll the dice and you don't get the chance to roll 18 attacks against a single model unit (which kind of breaks the idea behind of making Blast better against Hordes without making them stronger against low model units)

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 kodos wrote:
wouldn't it have been easier to skip dice rolling at all and just say that blast weapons have 1 attack against >6 models, 3 attacks against 6-10 models and 6 attacks against 11+ models?

Nope. Because they're bringing back small and large blast via this rule. Small blasts cap at 3, large cap at 6.

and a cap at 3 is not possible with fixed values?

 addnid wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW logic: I shoot a Wyvern quad stormshard mortar (Heavy 4D6) at 10 Boyz and I might only get 4 attacks, but if I shoot at 11 Boyz I magically get 24 attacks. (Assuming a Mortar becomes a Blast Weapon, which it should).

Wow, mister I always complain about bad editing doesn't read rule very well. In your example, min number of attacks would be 12

I usually never say anything about this, but I feel curious today. Why even bother to answer some of the worst haters in the forum ?

How am I "hating" when I am totally right?

 Galas wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So blast weapons become useless agaisnt vehicles and monsters?

Not useless, they still get a random number of shots, and some have some decent damage output, they just smack large groups more consistently.

I mean , with the rules BaconCatBug said.

Firing a normal battle cannon twice at a unit of 10 has double the minimum of attacks (6 attacks) than firing a twin battle cannon (aka the Macharius Battle cannon) or a Rapid Fire Battle Cannon once (3 attacks).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So blast weapons become useless agaisnt vehicles and monsters?

Not useless, they still get a random number of shots, and some have some decent damage output, they just smack large groups more consistently.

My understanding is that it still rolls the d6 and could still get 6shots on a single model. It’s just that with a squad of 6+ it would be a minimum of 3 shots and against a unit of 11+ it will always be a 6.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
3-11 models = min 3 hits with blast.
12+ = full hits with blast.

Still have to roll To Hit though.

And they put the cost of Cultists up?

Also not flamers, because that makes sense.

And restricted to no firing with Big Guns Never Tire.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So this blast weapon rule is pretty bad and completely arbitrary. Plus rolling to see how many dice you roll was meant to be a joke, not a core mechanic.

Instead it should be:

<WEAPON TYPE> Blast X: 1 shot per model in the target unit, to a maximum of X.

Blast 6 vs 1 Model? 1 shot.

Blast 6 vs 30 models? 6 shots.

So blast weapons become useless agaisnt vehicles and monsters?

Not useless, they still get a random number of shots, and some have some decent damage output, they just smack large groups more consistently.

My understanding is that it still rolls the d6 and could still get 6shots on a single model. It’s just that with a squad of 6+ it would be a minimum of 3 shots and against a unit of 11+ it will always be a 6.

It is. We just got sidetracked by BCB playing game dev in the middle of a news release thread leading to some confusion in the middle there.

Discussing the new rules is good for this thread. How you’d write the rule instead is good for another thread, not here.

Vehicles sound really strong in 9th. You cant prevent them from shooting, their blast weapons will obliterate 11+ models infantry. I think 9th edition armies will be quite vehicle heavy (unless they get something like a 50% point increase), and infantry units will have no more than 10 models.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
What's the point in moaning then, moan when you have something to moan about, not when you know 10% of the situation.

Amazing how much of this crap goes on, on this forum, absolute meltdowns were being had about Pariah about how necrons always get shafted as no models have been announced, having to tell absolute cry babies that wait until you know all the information to whinge and moan... Look who was right in that situation.

Sit down, shut up and save your bloody hissy fits until you have a reason to (if there is one at all).

You're obviously new to GW's new rules releases I take it to make this statement.

Been playing since 1997... Quite well aware of how it happens.

What doesn't make sense is the people within this forum.