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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If they don't get invuln save I'm gonna love to melta their faces though. So much.

Dark Angels will get invulns if the bikes get the Ravenwing keyword.

PiñaColada wrote:
He has a chainsword in this box but it's quite possible the multipart kit offers a plethora of weapon options.

I am curious to see if the Astartes chainsword will be trading the bonus attack for the rumored better AP.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Lol that pistol outranges the Necron Gauss Reaper.

No penetration though. So it's sort of weaker.
It has longer range and higher RoF and damage, but I can see it doing poorly against well armored targets. It pretty much needs those MW procs to do something against those.

 kodos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I will always say that Chaos needs more Dark Mechanicus madness. Like a Defiler/Rhino hybrid.

we just need rules, models are already there:

Spoiler:

https://miniaturescenery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=129


https://miniaturescenery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=127

Oh yes, that just screams Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Iron Warriors. Iron Warriors, who btw, are known to chop off their own limbs and replace them with bionics if they show signs of mutation. For the millionth time, all csm are not chaos worshipping mutants.

 Vector Strike wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Lol that pistol outranges the Necron Gauss Reaper.

15" pistols
14" rapid fire weapons

WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!?

Yeah, its weird.
I'm going to hazard a guess that Necrons get more teleportation options, so the 14" range is so that you just can't make a unit of 20 warriors with reapers and teleport them in with no risk involved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Oh goody, more ancient Heresy tech for the numarines while the actual ancient warriors from the time of the Heresy are stuck with scavenged hand me downs.

Its neo-volkite though, so its not heresy era

Seriously though, Chaos should get some of the heresy stuff from Forge World / Horus Heresy.
If they are stuck with Reaper Autocannons because Assault Cannons were invented after the Heresy, then they should have old-school volkite weapons too.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I will always say that Chaos needs more Dark Mechanicus madness. Like a Defiler/Rhino hybrid.

we just need rules, models are already there:

Spoiler:

https://miniaturescenery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=129


https://miniaturescenery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=127

Oh yes, that just screams Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Iron Warriors. Iron Warriors, who btw, are known to chop off their own limbs and replace them with bionics if they show signs of mutation. For the millionth time, all csm are not chaos worshipping mutants.

But they all work and trade with the Dark Mechanicus who makes things like Daemon Engines for the long war.

And I still stand by that Alpha Legion follow Tzeentch, even if they don't know it. They're too many layers into their convoluted planning not to be unwitting pawns of a Trickster God

 ClockworkZion wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
He has a chainsword in this box but it's quite possible the multipart kit offers a plethora of weapon options.

I am curious to see if the Astartes chainsword will be trading the bonus attack for the rumored better AP.

I mean, it would have to be AP in addition to the extra attack though, right? Because they're supposed to have 6 attacks on the charge. Unless an astartes chainsword is simply +2 attacks and the bike charge rule is instead of shock assault and not in addition to it.

Here is a more updated transcript for the Necron side of things from Today's stream:

stream highlights:
-Redesigning necron models provided insight into how GW wants necrons to play, both in strengths and weaknesses
-GW want to play up the horror aesthetic with the new necrons
-Reanimation Protocols have been given a big overhaul
-Right now there are a lot of ways to mitigate RP. GW wants to make it so bringing back your units is constant and consistent
-Canoptek Reanimator uses it's nano-scarab beam to break down and reconstruct necron units. For enemies, it's just the break down part.
-New necron codex has a lot of emphasis on being broken down and getting back up again.
-"A relentless, grinding playstyle" with a mid-field shooting emphasis
-Command phase will prompt decisions for in what way necron units should reanimate. The player should be responsible more making the decisions, they are the overlord
-"Dynastic noble" aesthetic will still exist with the triarch units
-While necrons do have fast units, they want necrons to be slow and methodical, with lots of firepower
-"100% more guns"
-Necrons will get other army-wide rules besides Reanimation Protocols
-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles

Wow that...sounds all good, actually.
Looks like they are going back to their roots, with a bit of 5th ed mixed in.

So if we assume the bikes are 150 for the three, and the Assault Intercessors will total 200 for the 10, that leaves roughly 650 points for the Chaplain, Captain, Lieutenant, Judiciar and 3 Bladeguard Veterans based on the roughly 1k points cost.

Either wargear is going to run some serious points, or we're looking at some expensive characters if these assumptions are true.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So if we assume the bikes are 150 for the three, and the Assault Intercessors will total 200 for the 10, that leaves roughly 650 points for the Chaplain, Captain, Lieutenant, Judiciar and 3 Bladeguard Veterans based on the roughly 1k points cost.

Either wargear is going to run some serious points, or we're looking at some expensive characters if these assumptions are true.

And 3 eradicators

PiñaColada wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So if we assume the bikes are 150 for the three, and the Assault Intercessors will total 200 for the 10, that leaves roughly 650 points for the Chaplain, Captain, Lieutenant, Judiciar and 3 Bladeguard Veterans based on the roughly 1k points cost.

Either wargear is going to run some serious points, or we're looking at some expensive characters if these assumptions are true.

And 3 eradicators

I honestly forgot about them.

So what are we thinking? Roughly 150 for the Bladeguard, 150 for the Eradicators and the other 350 for the characters?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So if we assume the bikes are 150 for the three, and the Assault Intercessors will total 200 for the 10, that leaves roughly 650 points for the Chaplain, Captain, Lieutenant, Judiciar and 3 Bladeguard Veterans based on the roughly 1k points cost.

Either wargear is going to run some serious points, or we're looking at some expensive characters if these assumptions are true.

And 3 eradicators

I honestly forgot about them.

So what are we thinking? Roughly 150 for the Bladeguard, 150 for the Eradicators and the other 350 for the characters?

Which is all looking fairly light on points cost vrs the field like the bikes are a 200+ point units compaired to any other armies similar unit's.

Ice_can wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So if we assume the bikes are 150 for the three, and the Assault Intercessors will total 200 for the 10, that leaves roughly 650 points for the Chaplain, Captain, Lieutenant, Judiciar and 3 Bladeguard Veterans based on the roughly 1k points cost.

Either wargear is going to run some serious points, or we're looking at some expensive characters if these assumptions are true.

And 3 eradicators

I honestly forgot about them.

So what are we thinking? Roughly 150 for the Bladeguard, 150 for the Eradicators and the other 350 for the characters?

Which is all looking fairly light on points cost vrs the field like the bikes are a 200+ point units compaired to any other armies similar unit's.

It could run more with the wargear factored in since points get a little weird compared to PL when wargear is involved.

Well a normal primaris captain is 82 points, a fancy stormshield could easily bump that to the 95 range. A primaris chaplain is 77. Say the Judiciar is roughly the same. A primaris lieutenant is 69, plus whatever that volkite gun is. So like 75?

That'd put the characters at 324, somewhere between there and 350 sounds pretty likely. Maybe 45 points per eradicator, same for the bladeguard and 55 points per bike is another 435. 200 for the 10 intercessors.

Sum total for that is 959 points. If the bikes have a slightly "bloated" PL because their multipart kit comes with some extra options, like thunderhammers, then it sounds pretty plausible to me.

Edit: Actually the lieutenant also has a storm shield and I don't remember how much SM characters pay for those, so chuck another 10 points onto this equation I guess

 Sasori wrote:
Here is a more updated transcript for the Necron side of things from Today's stream:

-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles

Hrm, not sure how they're gonna do that after they gave Necrons skimmer transports, flyer transports, reintroduced jetbikes with Tomb Blades after redefining Destroyers, amped up Wraiths, shifted most fire support away from Destroyers and onto Vehicle weaponry, etc. Necrons haven't been a faction lacking for speed ever since they got rebooted, and I'm not sure how they're gonna do that now without effectively breaking the utility of these units or overbuffing the infantry. Being cynical, I imagine they'll get a ton of layered on infantry rules the way Space Marines have, but we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

PiñaColada wrote:
Well a normal primaris captain is 82 points, a fancy stormshield could easily bump that to the 95 range. A primaris chaplain is 77. Say the Judiciar is roughly the same. A primaris lieutenant is 69, plus whatever that volkite gun is. So like 75?

That'd put the characters at 324, somewhere between there and 350 sounds pretty likely. Maybe 45 points per eradicator, same for the bladeguard and 55 points per bike is another 435. 200 for the 10 intercessors.

Sum total for that is 959 points. If the bikes have a slightly "bloated" PL because their multipart kit comes with some extra options, like thunderhammers, then it sounds pretty plausible to me.

Edit: Actually the lieutenant also has a storm shield and I don't remember how much SM characters pay for those, so chuck another 10 points onto this equation I guess

If those bikers Ever get the option to take anything other than a chainsword they will entirely break the weapons they have acess too as 6 attacks even dropping it to 5 is Charictor levels of attacks give him a Master Crafter thunderhammer and your onto a 50 smash captain with a unit to handle any infantry tarpit even if fallback is gone.

If the extra 2 attacks they get on the charge are added to their attack characteristic, then yeah any special weapon would be completely nuts. But I'm not convinced the bike attacks aren't just another weapon profile that you only get to use if they charged.

If they just get two extra S4 AP-1 D1 attacks per bike if they charged regardless of equipped weapons then it's not nearly as bad.

PiñaColada wrote:
If the extra 2 attacks they get on the charge are added to their attack characteristic, then yeah any special weapon would be completely nuts. But I'm not convinced the bike attacks aren't just another weapon profile that you only get to use if they charged.

If they just get two extra S4 AP-1 D1 attacks per bike if they charged regardless of equipped weapons then it's not nearly as bad.

That would make a lot more sense.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Here is a more updated transcript for the Necron side of things from Today's stream:

-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles

Hrm, not sure how they're gonna do that after they gave Necrons skimmer transports, flyer transports, reintroduced jetbikes with Tomb Blades after redefining Destroyers, amped up Wraiths, shifted most fire support away from Destroyers and onto Vehicle weaponry, etc. Necrons haven't been a faction lacking for speed ever since they got rebooted, and I'm not sure how they're gonna do that now without effectively breaking the utility of these units or overbuffing the infantry. Being cynical, I imagine they'll get a ton of layered on infantry rules the way Space Marines have, but we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

That was my thought as well. Ultimately, it ISN'T a slow army, unless they're going to dramatically change some movement stats.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
If the extra 2 attacks they get on the charge are added to their attack characteristic, then yeah any special weapon would be completely nuts. But I'm not convinced the bike attacks aren't just another weapon profile that you only get to use if they charged.

If they just get two extra S4 AP-1 D1 attacks per bike if they charged regardless of equipped weapons then it's not nearly as bad.

That would make a lot more sense.

And find anothe rpossibility to make the game slower


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Here is a more updated transcript for the Necron side of things from Today's stream:

-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles

Hrm, not sure how they're gonna do that.

remove the vehicle keyword and reduce all movemant values

Putting the attacks on the bikes at the same stats as what we assume will be the chainsword stats means they can be fastrolled with the chainswords, but won't stack with other melee weapons.

It'd be pretty decent honestly.

 gorgon wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Here is a more updated transcript for the Necron side of things from Today's stream:

-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles

Hrm, not sure how they're gonna do that after they gave Necrons skimmer transports, flyer transports, reintroduced jetbikes with Tomb Blades after redefining Destroyers, amped up Wraiths, shifted most fire support away from Destroyers and onto Vehicle weaponry, etc. Necrons haven't been a faction lacking for speed ever since they got rebooted, and I'm not sure how they're gonna do that now without effectively breaking the utility of these units or overbuffing the infantry. Being cynical, I imagine they'll get a ton of layered on infantry rules the way Space Marines have, but we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

That was my thought as well. Ultimately, it ISN'T a slow army, unless they're going to dramatically change some movement stats.

As a Necron player, I wouldn’t mind nerfs to our speed as a swap to a more cohesive vision! I definitely agree that we have a super abundance of fast moving options. Nearly* everything other than our Troops and HQs moves 8”+.

 Galas wrote:
As long as models are inmune to bikes because they are on top of a 1,1" barrel, meele bikers without fly will suck ass.

You missed the note from the start. No more that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And the only real new rule we get out of the Marine preview:

Lol that pistol outranges the Necron Gauss Reaper.

15" pistols
14" rapid fire weapons

WHAT IS GOING ON?!?!?

Marines. Gw has stopped all pretense of not favouring marines


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:
Here is a more updated transcript for the Necron side of things from Today's stream:

stream highlights:
-Redesigning necron models provided insight into how GW wants necrons to play, both in strengths and weaknesses
-GW want to play up the horror aesthetic with the new necrons
-Reanimation Protocols have been given a big overhaul
-Right now there are a lot of ways to mitigate RP. GW wants to make it so bringing back your units is constant and consistent
-Canoptek Reanimator uses it's nano-scarab beam to break down and reconstruct necron units. For enemies, it's just the break down part.
-New necron codex has a lot of emphasis on being broken down and getting back up again.
-"A relentless, grinding playstyle" with a mid-field shooting emphasis
-Command phase will prompt decisions for in what way necron units should reanimate. The player should be responsible more making the decisions, they are the overlord
-"Dynastic noble" aesthetic will still exist with the triarch units
-While necrons do have fast units, they want necrons to be slow and methodical, with lots of firepower
-"100% more guns"
-Necrons will get other army-wide rules besides Reanimation Protocols
-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles

If gw thinks there's multiple ways to mitigate rp they haven"t even read necron rules. There's 1. Wipe unit. That makes rp useless.

tneva82 wrote:
If gw thinks there's multiple ways to mitigate rp they haven"t even read necron rules. There's 1. Wipe unit. That makes rp useless.

It's the best one without arguing, but i also had my RP rolls invalidated by opponent encircling my last lychguard models in close combat.

Volkite Blasters(an option on the Techpriest Dominus) are 24" Heavy 3 with S6 AP0 D1 and "Wound roll of 6+ causes Mortal Wounds in addition to damage" bit...so are we really that up in arms over a fricking pistol?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Volkite Blasters(an option on the Techpriest Dominus) are 24" Heavy 3 with S6 AP0 D1 and "Wound roll of 6+ causes Mortal Wounds in addition to damage" bit...so are we really that up in arms over a fricking pistol?

I mean, the Marine Version is significantly better against a lot of targets, due to that D2, so...

It's not a massive issue ON ITS OWN, it's just a bad sign given everything else.

But they have a new codex coming... RP might work if all dead.. heck they might of changed it so it's like fnp.

Could be like fnp 6+ and depending how many chars you have on the board or other conditions etc give a plus to that

 Latro_ wrote:
But they have a new codex coming... RP might work if all dead.. heck they might of changed it so it's like fnp.

Could be like fnp 6+ and depending how many chars you have on the board or other conditions etc give a plus to that

Maybe. We'll see. Even if all dead works has it's own issues though. If there's no qualficiations it's basically if you go 2nd you are virtually 100% quaranteed to have all your infantry units standing at the end. So either you are bleeding kill points like no tomorrow(unit dies, you get VP, some come back alive, they are killed again, more vp's) or they kill no vp's basically(because unit i always alive at the end).

FNP would be more feasible but 5+++ is kind of DG material. That makes the 2 armies maybe too close.

But yeah it's possible it changes. That's the big Q for necrons.

tneva82 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
But they have a new codex coming... RP might work if all dead.. heck they might of changed it so it's like fnp.

Could be like fnp 6+ and depending how many chars you have on the board or other conditions etc give a plus to that

Maybe. We'll see. Even if all dead works has it's own issues though. If there's no qualficiations it's basically if you go 2nd you are virtually 100% quaranteed to have all your infantry units standing at the end. So either you are bleeding kill points like no tomorrow(unit dies, you get VP, some come back alive, they are killed again, more vp's) or they kill no vp's basically(because unit i always alive at the end).

FNP would be more feasible but 5+++ is kind of DG material. That makes the 2 armies maybe too close.

But yeah it's possible it changes. That's the big Q for necrons.

Pretty sure they said kill points were a thing of the past?