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 Argive wrote:
Well.. Stop gap Edition 8.5 certainly seems more and more like a stop gap edition 8.5 with each passing say. As in we saw the power creep.. we noticed the power creep. But then we decided to keep the power creep.

I have to admit, I lean more toward 8th feeling like the 'early access' version for 9th.
With indexes being the alpha stage, codexes being the beta stage, and then SM codex v2 being the release candidate stage followed by a lot of crunch time (PA) to drag everything up to the finish line before release, regardless if they're completely ready or not.

Voss wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Well.. Stop gap Edition 8.5 certainly seems more and more like a stop gap edition 8.5 with each passing say. As in we saw the power creep.. we noticed the power creep. But then we decided to keep the power creep.

I have to admit, I lean more toward 8th feeling like the 'early access' version for 9th.
With indexes being the alpha stage, codexes being the beta stage, and then SM codex v2 being the release candidate stage followed by a lot of crunch time (PA) to drag everything up to the finish line before release, regardless if they're completely ready or not.

Yeah, this is mostly how I feel. We all know that 7th was received very poorly, so they needed to move away from it. 8th is far from perfect, but it was much better than 7th. With the foundations of 8 it seems like they've taken things that needed to be fixed and tweaked other things. to make 9th a lot better.

We also have the move to the app and free digital codex with 9th edition books. It feels very similar to the move in AOS to 2.0, which was taking the current ruleset and making some quality of life improvements and tweaks. AoS 2.0 has been well received for the most part

The app is all very good and that and their promises.. again sound very good and that... But battlescribe already does the army building perfectly.

What I think most players don't like is the fact they have to carry 4-5 books to a game and then jump around all the books to find out to check if your guy gets to some minor thing or not so you dont cheat yourself or your opponent. And it seems there is zero inclination to change the experiance. They focused on model count to shorten game but somehow didint realise that half the time we are flicking through 5 different books and faqs to clarify ruyles instead of rolling dice...

I don't see the app changing this. Realisticaly do we think GW will give us all those rules in one place and not have to buy those 4-5 books? And if not that if/when it launches i expect this thing to be ridden with errors and bugs constantly.

Seems a realy nothing burger. Shame.

I hope they see the light and give a pdf version of the codex along with the codex when you buy a hard copy if nothing else.

 Argive wrote:
The app is all very good and that and their promises.. again sound very good and that... But battlescribe already does the army building perfectly.

What I think most players don't like is the fact they have to carry 4-5 books to a game and then jump around all the books to find out to check if your guy gets to some minor thing or not so you dont cheat yourself or your opponent. And it seems there is zero inclination to change the experiance. They focused on model count to shorten game but somehow didint realise that half the time we are flicking through 5 different books and faqs to clarify ruyles instead of rolling dice...

I don't see the app changing this. Realisticaly do we think GW will give us all those rules in one place and not have to buy those 4-5 books? And if not that if/when it launches i expect this thing to be ridden with errors and bugs constantly.

Seems a realy nothing burger. Shame.

I hope they see the light and give a pdf version of the codex along with the codex when you buy a hard copy if nothing else.

They already said you are getting a free digital codex with the hardcopy for the new books.

Also, Battlescribe is really not that great. It's the only thing in the market right now that works, but it's not amazing. The AOS app currently gives you the full statline and special rules for units, for free. The only thing it doesn't include in that is the Army and Subfaction special rules and the Warscroll battalions. The listbuilder is like 1.00 USD month, and it's very handy and easy to use.

BTW I'm gonna figure at 85 PPM for the bikes. the custrodes bikes are 90.

55 only because of points going up. No brakes on the Marine train.

Audustum wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I like those stats. Question is how many points are they?

Wow! As many wounds as a Custodes Jetbike! I wasn't expecting that. Rest seems pretty standard, except for the LD 7.

And with even more attacks too! They are going to be so OP !!! I mean, it seems like these primaris bikers have everything, lots of attacks, lots of shots, durability, high movement ... is there anything they are even bad at? @@

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I like those stats. Question is how many points are they?

Wow! As many wounds as a Custodes Jetbike! I wasn't expecting that. Rest seems pretty standard, except for the LD 7.

And with even more attacks too! They are going to be so OP !!! I mean, it seems like these primaris bikers have everything, lots of attacks, lots of shots, durability, high movement ... is there anything they are even bad at? @@

They're quite bad at getting out of range of CM and Lieutenant buffs. Oh, no, they're going to get bikes. I've said too much...

BrianDavion wrote:
do you expect a marketing article to lead with "marines actually kind of suck now that X has been nerfed"?

No, I expected an article to talk about how Space Marines work in 9th, not "There is a new rule that everyone gets, meaning it also works with Space Marines! WOW!" meaningless drivel.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Am I missing something, or do the new Primaris Raider-pattern combat bikes have absolutely no way to aim their weapons? They seem fixed to the front armour and locked in position facing forwards, with no noticable way to move them. The previous design had them fixed to the front of the handlebars so it would still have them aiming the same direction the Bike is going, but at least with the previous version that would presumably offer a bit more control to it.

Primaris marines never drive their bikes in any direction except directly at the enemy. The weapons are tracers. The primaris marine is the bullet.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Am I missing something, or do the new Primaris Raider-pattern combat bikes have absolutely no way to aim their weapons? They seem fixed to the front armour and locked in position facing forwards, with no noticable way to move them. The previous design had them fixed to the front of the handlebars so it would still have them aiming the same direction the Bike is going, but at least with the previous version that would presumably offer a bit more control to it.

Primaris marines never drive their bikes in any direction except directly at the enemy. The weapons are tracers. The primaris marine is the bullet.

Sounds legit.

A Playtester Who Should Know Better wrote:"When I’m playing Space Marines, I like to take the have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too approach as much as possible (who doesn’t, honestly?). What this means on the tabletop is maximizing the amount of damage I can do to my opponent while limiting their ability to do hurt me in return." OMG... is that how you play 40k? I was running my units around in circles, hiding all my long-ranged stuff behind LOS blocking terrain, and flapping my arms whilst making chicken noises at random passers by.

I could only get this far before i broke down laughing...

SF

Thank... you?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
do you expect a marketing article to lead with "marines actually kind of suck now that X has been nerfed"?

No, I expected an article to talk about how Space Marines work in 9th, not "There is a new rule that everyone gets, meaning it also works with Space Marines! WOW!" meaningless drivel.

That'd be nice, but it's apparently not in line with their need to string this out for a while with just enough info to keep the pot boiling.

In combination with some of the other chapter tactics those bikes will be horrendous! ( To face I mean)
Extra attacks and +1 to wound in BA forces
Extra damage in WS forces
Extra attacks on 6s to hit with SW

When they said melee was getting better what they meant was 65% of our player base (SM players) will be buying loads of these Uber bikers!

I know I will!

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
In combination with some of the other chapter tactics those bikes will be horrendous! ( To face I mean)
Extra attacks and +1 to wound in BA forces
Extra damage in WS forces
Extra attacks on 6s to hit with SW

When they said melee was getting better what they meant was 65% of our player base (SM players) will be buying loads of these Uber bikers!

I know I will!

And here I was enjoying my rerolling charges (BT).

Sorry forgot about the BT and I’m sure other chapters have abilities that fit as well!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
do you expect a marketing article to lead with "marines actually kind of suck now that X has been nerfed"?

No, I expected an article to talk about how Space Marines work in 9th, not "There is a new rule that everyone gets, meaning it also works with Space Marines! WOW!" meaningless drivel.

That'd be nice, but it's apparently not in line with their need to string this out for a while with just enough info to keep the pot boiling.

I suspect that much like crons there's extra content/book/codex around the corner they can't divulge too much about.

I'm hoping the other factions will cover the changes in more earnest terms since there's less for them to hide in comparison.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Sorry forgot about the BT and I’m sure other chapters have abilities that fit as well!

I don't think the bikes are how GW thinks they're improving melee.

Problem is whatever the ace up their sleeve is, we can't seem to get them to just come out and say what it is. Hype over good communication I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
do you expect a marketing article to lead with "marines actually kind of suck now that X has been nerfed"?

No, I expected an article to talk about how Space Marines work in 9th, not "There is a new rule that everyone gets, meaning it also works with Space Marines! WOW!" meaningless drivel.

That'd be nice, but it's apparently not in line with their need to string this out for a while with just enough info to keep the pot boiling.

I suspect that much like crons there's extra content/book/codex around the corner they can't divulge too much about.

I'm hoping the other factions will cover the changes in more earnest terms since there's less for them to hide in comparison.

I'm on the same page about these guest articles. NDAs mean all they can really say is whatever is permitted, and it seems they can only speak very generally about anything that even touches 9th.

With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

 Thud wrote:
With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

Well , you'd enter the justifyable nerdrage sphere, because such Bikers would be horrendusly unfair.

 Thud wrote:
With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

Some of us are thinking around 50, but some are claiming they'll be 35, but I suspect that's more the salt talking.

StarFyre wrote:

A Playtester Who Should Know Better wrote:"When I’m playing Space Marines, I like to take the have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too approach as much as possible (who doesn’t, honestly?). What this means on the tabletop is maximizing the amount of damage I can do to my opponent while limiting their ability to do hurt me in return." OMG... is that how you play 40k? I was running my units around in circles, hiding all my long-ranged stuff behind LOS blocking terrain, and flapping my arms whilst making chicken noises at random passers by.

I could only get this far before i broke down laughing...

SF

Yeah GW isn't particularly subtle about how they favour marines.

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
In combination with some of the other chapter tactics those bikes will be horrendous! ( To face I mean)
Extra attacks and +1 to wound in BA forces
Extra damage in WS forces
Extra attacks on 6s to hit with SW

When they said melee was getting better what they meant was 65% of our player base (SM players) will be buying loads of these Uber bikers!

I know I will!

Really?

What exactly do they do better than two oldmarine bikers?

So despite the hype they are only going to be at all relevant if they are significantly cheaper than two oldmarine bikers - because oldmarine bikers have had no real competitive relevance for a while.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thud wrote:
With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

Well , you'd enter the justifyable nerdrage sphere, because such Bikers would be horrendusly unfair.

Witness salt turning into gun powder, and then the powder keg that is this forum, previously just a salt mine, blowing up ! A tankbusta's dream !

 Thud wrote:
With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

Same. GW giving marines broken stuff is hardly as news anymore.

Well guess we can be happy they didn't put them at 30 pts at least...

So that +2 attacks on the charge, nothing has confirmed this rumor to be true right ?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Thud wrote:
With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

Some of us are thinking around 50, but some are claiming they'll be 35, but I suspect that's more the salt talking.

Currently two bikers are 46 points. If you take them with chainswords for a choppy chapter they get the same number of attacks on the charge, more attacks when charged and twice as many bolter shots albeit at AP0 instead of AP-1.

At 8th ed rates they would need to be less than 46 points each to be even barely relevant. If everything goes up by 10% they still need to be less than 50 points to be able to compete with a unit that hardly anyone takes competitively because its just not very good.

 addnid wrote:
So that +2 attacks on the charge, nothing has confirmed this rumor to be true right ?

It's no roumer it's straight from Stu on the GW Live stream it's as official a rule can be before we get the marine 3.0 Ninth edition codex.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Thud wrote:
With the amounts of salt in here already, I wonder what the reaction is going to be when you find out that the primaris bikers are about 40 points each.

Some of us are thinking around 50, but some are claiming they'll be 35, but I suspect that's more the salt talking.

Currently two bikers are 46 points. If you take them with chainswords for a choppy chapter they get the same number of attacks on the charge, more attacks when charged and twice as many bolter shots albeit at AP0 instead of AP-1.

At 8th ed rates they would need to be less than 46 points each to be even barely relevant. If everything goes up by 10% they still need to be less than 50 points to be able to compete with a unit that hardly anyone takes competitively because its just not very good.

Maybe. We'll see. Mind you the idea of 150 for 3 is more an assumption on how they price them after all, we'll find out if that's the case or not soon enough I'm sure.