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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Who knows, maybe they'll give you an Artificer Marking Pen for inserting your own custom punctuation with for the low price of only $20USD!

It is the new way they're writing codexes. They're calling it "FinePrint".

 Kanluwen wrote:

Is this new art? I don't recognize it offhand.

Looks new. And a different style- more starship troopers the movie.

And by an artist who thinks guardsmen have machineguns, apparently. The guy behind the first one's muzzle flash is using something that's almost a P-90.

Is that an autogun? Looks to have a long magazine.

Guy in the background seems to have a bullpup gun too.

Could be PDF.

Voss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Is this new art? I don't recognize it offhand.

Looks new. And a different style- more starship troopers the movie.

And by an artist who thinks guardsmen have machineguns, apparently. The guy behind the first one's muzzle flash is using something that's almost a P-90.

There's a FAMAS toting gunman in the background as well. Or maybe its a AUG.
Don't the Elysians have lasguns that look like a FAMAS?

The logo still isn't fixed.

 Slinky wrote:
Is that an autogun? Looks to have a long magazine.

Guy in the background seems to have a bullpup gun too.

Bullpup lasguns aren't new.

 Slinky wrote:
Is that an autogun? Looks to have a long magazine.

Guy in the background seems to have a bullpup gun too.

Yeah, looks like an autogun.
Might be PDF, or maybe new Guardsmen are getting autoguns instead of lasguns. Maybe the lore is that they improved the autogun design and it has more of a punch compared to lasguns now, idk.

 puma713 wrote:
The logo still isn't fixed.

Never will be. That overlapping R is tradition at this point.

They are autoguns, a laser would look different when firing. And autoguns may not be the preferred standard in the Guard, but they aren't rare and are very common in PDFs.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Don't the Elysians have lasguns that look like a FAMAS?

Accatran Pattern, yes.

Wonder if it's a sign of things to come. We're getting new Cadians with redone Lasguns and Autoguns.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is why I have said before to boycott GW's printed material, simply because they overcharge and expect us to pay for patches.

Yes, you can do that if you feel that the product is not worth the price. It is called 'not playing the game,' instead of advocating piratism like you have done in the past.

Why shouldn't it be advocated? With the amount of crap they release without testing or proofreading or the sloppiness it's presented in...it should be free to begin with. Patches are already not free AND we have people defending that here! You can't call that anything but being a white Knight.

Well, for starters, it's illegal. It's also against forum rules to advocate for piracy.

While I find the overall change to overwatch interesting, I'm not too thrilled that it costs CP. What we've seen so far is that the "More CP than ever" is exaggerated compared to for example what a Brigade or double Battalion would give you. When every 'basic' action is going to cost CP as well, we'll end up actually having less CP for the fun stratagems. Perhaps we just don't know enough yet, but the picture given so far is not only positive regarding the "more CP" slogan.

They changed Overwatch into a stratagem.
Wasn't that a common suggestion from the player base?

Its a huge nerf. Only one unit can use overwatch as its a stratagem, and it still only hits on 6s. I guess that's the buff to melee they were talking about.

Might be interesting. I don't think Tau would be that affected by the change though, because they can still use Supporting Fire (is that the name?). Its just that they have to blob up more now to get everything in range of the ability.

Honestly, the lasguns just look like the ones that the Van Saar have for Necromunda.

WarCom wrote:Overall, this is a huge boost to massed assault armies, such as Orks or Tyranids, that excel at smashing dozens of units into the enemy line all at once. Where previously, each one of those units would face retaliatory fire, now, your opponent will only be able to target ONE of your changing units, so will have to choose very carefully indeed! Do you stop the rampaging Trygon from smashing a tank or that horde of 30 Hormagaunts from shredding an infantry platoon? No easy choice.

Yeah, ok, this is good for melee armies. But this example is pants-on-head stupid. Firing overwatch with a single unit, hitting only on 6s is NOT going to stop a trygon.

If you've got the spare CP and a good shooting unit, you might shoot at the Hormagaunts to do some damage, but barring flametanks or something similar, you're not going to do significant damage to a trygon, so it IS an easy choice.

Of course, the even easier choice is 'never waste CP on overwatch,' because paying and praying for 6s is statistically poor, but there are exceptions.

----
Various free overwatch rules are going to be interesting for the general army composition trends. I'm curious how many people will prioritize it, and how many will treat it as a dead rule with no game impact.

They really need to fire their proof reader and whichever intern is writing these.
They forgot the periods.

Also, do paragraphs or line breaks not exist in England? Because it really needs those. It's just a big block of text, its like a bad forum post.

Us3Less wrote:
While I find the overall change to overwatch interesting, I'm not too thrilled that it costs CP. What we've seen so far is that the "More CP than ever" is exaggerated compared to for example what a Brigade or double Battalion would give you. When every 'basic' action is going to cost CP as well, we'll end up actually having less CP for the fun stratagems. Perhaps we just don't know enough yet, but the picture given so far is not only positive regarding the "more CP" slogan.

Or we'll have to build our armies up around the fun strats we want to use instead of using rerolls, or maybe even Overwatch.

We get at least a CP a turn though, so Overwatch can always be paid for.

Us3Less wrote:
While I find the overall change to overwatch interesting, I'm not too thrilled that it costs CP. What we've seen so far is that the "More CP than ever" is exaggerated compared to for example what a Brigade or double Battalion would give you. When every 'basic' action is going to cost CP as well, we'll end up actually having less CP for the fun stratagems. Perhaps we just don't know enough yet, but the picture given so far is not only positive regarding the "more CP" slogan.

I think that's the point. What would the point of turning actions into strategems be if you could just do them without sacrificing anything? If you want to do your "fun strategem", then you're going to have to sacrifice OverWatch.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
They changed Overwatch into a stratagem.
Wasn't that a common suggestion from the player base?

Its a huge nerf. Only one unit can use overwatch as its a stratagem, and it still only hits on 6s. I guess that's the buff to melee they were talking about.

Might be interesting. I don't think Tau would be that affected by the change though, because they can still use Supporting Fire (is that the name?). Its just that they have to blob up more now to get everything in range of the ability.

I imagine Tau will have some key units that give Overwatch ability out maybe, like commanders of fireblades. That'd be how I'd do it anyway. So they can spread out and keep overwatch as long as they have a leader nearby. Doesn't nerf them into the floor, but also doesn't turn them into castle tau again.

Overall though, this is a fantastic change.

I am looking forward to seeing what 'look out sir' is.

I am hoping it will be like now for characters in that they can only be shot if closest, but with additional caveat that they must be within X inches of a friendly unit to stop the stupidity of a unit closer but no where near the character

Fantastic change, now finally people won't be compelled to trigger 60 dice rolls and burn 5 minutes of play time at every charge for the offhand chance of killing 1-2 dudes, and only pay for the overwatch that matters, like for Knights and stuff.

Apparently, if I understand right, units in Crusade Armies get better and free overwatch, but only if they "rank up" enough.

That's one way of making Crusade Armies appealing I guess.

So what are the chances that the new Angels of Death rule will grant Overwatch?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Apparently, if I understand right, units in Crusade Armies get better and free overwatch, but only if they "rank up" enough.

That's one way of making Crusade Armies appealing I guess.

It's one of the Battle Honors a unit can get yeah. But you can also get penalties.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
While I find the overall change to overwatch interesting, I'm not too thrilled that it costs CP. What we've seen so far is that the "More CP than ever" is exaggerated compared to for example what a Brigade or double Battalion would give you. When every 'basic' action is going to cost CP as well, we'll end up actually having less CP for the fun stratagems. Perhaps we just don't know enough yet, but the picture given so far is not only positive regarding the "more CP" slogan.

Or we'll have to build our armies up around the fun strats we want to use instead of using rerolls, or maybe even Overwatch.

We get at least a CP a turn though, so Overwatch can always be paid for.

Sure. But is it worth paying for?
There are just so many better strats that can also use the CP.

Its the same situation as the 'maybe hit falling back units on 6s' strat. It generally isn't worth paying for- the opportunity cost is too high for an effect that isn't very compelling.


On the other hand. I actually do think this is a good change. Overwatch wasted a lot of time, and as a free thing for every unit against every charge it was too strong.

 puma713 wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
While I find the overall change to overwatch interesting, I'm not too thrilled that it costs CP. What we've seen so far is that the "More CP than ever" is exaggerated compared to for example what a Brigade or double Battalion would give you. When every 'basic' action is going to cost CP as well, we'll end up actually having less CP for the fun stratagems. Perhaps we just don't know enough yet, but the picture given so far is not only positive regarding the "more CP" slogan.

I think that's the point. What would the point of turning actions into strategems be if you could just do them without sacrificing anything? If you want to do your "fun strategem", then you're going to have to sacrifice OverWatch.

Exactly this. I'm never going to be mad about having to make *more* tough tactical decisions. Which is a feature they've really seemed to be leaning into this edition based on what we've seen.

If nothing else, I'm glad that removing vast swathes of overwatch will slightly speed the game up too. It was not fun rolling an extra 60 dice with my Custodes jetbikes just to do a couple of wounds. And having to sit through a Knight or large tank overwatching with all its weapons and all its little stubbers and missiles was excruciating. So the less of that, the better.

Also make it infantry only because it is kinda ridiculous that you cannot fire at a big model like Dreadnaught characters or OOE or Daemon Princes.

Of course such changes should also come with very large point discounts on such models.

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Us3Less wrote:
While I find the overall change to overwatch interesting, I'm not too thrilled that it costs CP. What we've seen so far is that the "More CP than ever" is exaggerated compared to for example what a Brigade or double Battalion would give you. When every 'basic' action is going to cost CP as well, we'll end up actually having less CP for the fun stratagems. Perhaps we just don't know enough yet, but the picture given so far is not only positive regarding the "more CP" slogan.

Or we'll have to build our armies up around the fun strats we want to use instead of using rerolls, or maybe even Overwatch.

We get at least a CP a turn though, so Overwatch can always be paid for.

Sure. But is it worth paying for?
There are just so many better strats that can also use the CP.

Maybe, but then there's also that well-placed Aggressor or Retribution squad that's covering a key shooting unit. If nothing else they can act as great deterrants. Also, as one of the bigger time wasters, I don't see any problem with OW being relegated to the nosebleed section of tactical options.

Good to have in the pocket, no longer a no-brainer.

Also, it makes factions/units with OW benefits that much more unique, which is also a good thing.