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2020/07/01 18:30:38
Subject: Re:40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
There was plenty of customization in every rules edition prior to 8th. Rogue Trader basically used modified pen and paper RPG stats.
Harlequins are a "faction" spun out of what used to be a handful of Eldar character options.
Necrons have historically never had much in the way of options for regular units but had a massive variety of wargear for Lords. It also played a little to hard into it's theme of being mysterious (where even now their lore is just a lot of "Who knows what horrors lie unawakened in the darkest depths of their tombs?")
Primaris still don't have their full range and only released in 8E, which let's address for a second:
The only reason we have a lack of options now is because 7E, after being the fourth rules set on top of the foundation 4E build, had started to turn into an unorganized morass of USRs that weren't universal, rules bolted on in later editions which invalidated original core rules, and multiple changes in design philosophy within the company which lead to horribly mismatched design goals all over the game.
8E in its attempt to fix all of that "started from the ground up" (except for all those core designs it kept from past editions ) by throwing out the rules to nearly everything that didn't come on a sprue. That included anything which used to be represented by painting rank indicators (DE Trueborn) or which could be easily kitbashed.
Probably not even because of Chapterhouse as much as Dakka likes to claim so. More than likely it was because it's bad sales to tell a new hobbyist that they need to buy 5 kits just to make a single veteran squad loadout or that your Trueborn will look gakkier than that other guy's just because he's had 14 more years of hobby experience than you. (Also likely the reason that the current art is so close to the models themselves.)
So yeah, no. This is only a problem since 8E which has slowly been changing as time has gone on and codexes started adding options back for relics, subfractions, etc. But 40k has always had a rich history of customization running through its veins.
2020/07/01 18:37:05
Subject: Re:40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Welcome to every army getting a scenery piece, kiddo.
I was hoping they wouldn't do that here. AoS was bad enough.... Even though I'm pretty happy with my ziggurat in the looks department.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
I was hoping they wouldn't do that here. AoS was bad enough.... Even though I'm pretty happy with my ziggurat in the looks department.
Going to be honest: here it actually makes more sense. Webway Gates, the Tidewalls, etc all make a kind of sense. Webway Gates are kinda like the Idoneth piece though in that they really should be tied to a 'specific' kind of warzone.
These drop turrets, as much as I loathe them being Marines, at least kinda/sorta make sense in the same way that Tarantulas do: speedy deployment of defensive perimeters. But we damn well better see stuff for the Guard and AdMech. And none of that Sacristan Shrine garbage, GW! That's a Knight faction piece and you know it!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/01 18:48:00
2020/07/01 18:51:05
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Another tank-replacement fixed position for a mobile army that has tanks which fill the exact same role.
I love that it can shoot 360, but in 8 specific positions, the turret can't tilt back fully because one launcher or the other will hit the fins. Which creates gaps in its fire coverage. Well done, GW. Unnecessary model with unnecessary flaws.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/07/01 18:54:26
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
2020/07/01 18:56:22
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
Voss wrote: Another tank-replacement fixed position for a mobile army that has tanks which fill the exact same role.
I love that it can shoot 360, but in 8 specific positions, the turret can't tilt back fully because one launcher or the other will hit the fins. Which creates gaps in its fire coverage. Well done, GW. Unnecessary model with unnecessary flaws.
The missiles are guided, they don't care where the turret is aiming when they shoot.
Obviously.
(I agree the model is ridiculous though)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/01 18:58:18
2020/07/01 18:57:02
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
WTAF? Were is a Whirlwind +++, made into a building with what is that 8 Flamers but not just any flamers these are new improved Primaris Flamer rifles, comes with an 18 inch range S6, Ap-2 D3, benifits from doctorines and is Flat 8 shots.
Because Primaris.
2020/07/01 18:58:31
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
2020/07/01 19:01:38
Subject: Re:40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
But Dow is a video game with game mechanics. There were a few things that came in from Thunderhawk too though.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
I mean it's fair he hits on a 3+ with a D3 weapon but it's only S7, which is pretty lame.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/07/01 19:03:26
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
Gotta remember that's 105 probably in todays money for the points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/01 19:03:42
2020/07/01 19:03:31
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
Better shooting attack, option of anti-horde Claw or better Damage 3 weapon, Reroll of 1's to hit, reroll of 1's to wound for all destroyer cult.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
I mean it's fair he hits on a 3+ with a D3 weapon but it's only S7, which is pretty lame.
It's Strength 8, not 7. But yeah, pretty poor overall. 4 Attacks and 6 wounds is actually a little lower than you'd expect at 120 points. I was hoping for a 2+ save as the least anyways.
2020/07/01 19:05:30
Subject: 40k preview, May 23 - 9th edition, new Necrons, Marines
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
) by throwing out the rules to nearly everything that didn't come on a sprue. That included anything which used to be represented by painting rank indicators (
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
