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What is this Crusade Pack? Is it just the silly dairy thing?

 Carnikang wrote:
What could the Combat Gauge possibly have to make it special for $27

It's a Citadel™ FineGauge™. It is simply the greatest combat gauge ever made, and all other types of combat gauges simply cannot meet its level of excellence.

I'm going to laugh so fething hard if it doesn't have a 1/2" measurement on it.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:Also, in 9th, looking at the rules, there's no limitations on vehicles, bikers and monsters entering ruins or going over walls. You have to pay movement for it, but you can move your tank straight up a vertical wall, get to the top, then move it straight down the vertical wall, ending on the other side (or in the middle of the ruin). Which is a bit funny.

Isn't "scalable" only applicable to infantry? Pretty sure that's what I read.

Scaleable just means you can't end your movement on top of it unless you're infantry/beasts/swarm. If the wall didn't have scaleable, it looks like a tank can actually go straight up a vertical wall and end its movement on top of it - the wobbly model rule seems to say that as long as it can physically be placed there, you can have it "counts as" there even if it would fall off if you removed your hand. I don't see anything about bases hanging off being illegal, though it could be there and I just missed it.

Regardless, any model can mover over any terrain in 9th, scaleable or not, as long as they can get to the other side in the same movement phase. I.e. if you have a tank with a 10" movement range right by a 4" wall, it can cross that wall. It'll cost 8" of movement to go up and down, but it can do it.

Actually, you may be right. A bit tired right now though. Scaleable seems to only apply to ending moves above the ground floor. So as long as you have the movement to get back to the ground floor it may work. Have to have a proper read though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wobbly model is on pg5 of the free rules they put out. However, i think the terrain rules explicitly prevent you from ending your movement half way up something.

 Trickstick wrote:
Actually, you may be right. A bit tired right now though. Scaleable seems to only apply to ending moves above the ground floor. So as long as you have the movement to get back to the ground floor it may work. Have to have a proper read though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wobbly model is on pg5 of the free rules they put out. However, i think the terrain rules explicitly prevent you from ending your movement half way up something.

Halfway up, yes. But that's different than "on top." Presumably most things you can go over will have scaleable so it won't be an issue, but technically, if it doesn't, I think a tank can trundle up that vertical service and then end its movement on top, even if it can't get down to the other side. What it can't do is end its movement halfway up or down.

edit: oops, example was wrong because it has unstable position, so nobody can end their movement there.

So tl;dr seems to be unless something has either scaleable or unstable position, you can end your movement on top of it, even with a vehicle. If it has either of those keywords, you can't, but you can still go straight up it and down the other side as long as you can do it all in one movement phase.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What is this Crusade Pack? Is it just the silly dairy thing?

I believe it's the Journal and a set of the unit cards the Crusade rules keep talking about.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Doesn't work for anything 18+ wounds either, even if the terrain actually fully obscures it from LOS, because "reasons".

Pretty sure this bit is incorrect. From the new rulebook "In order
to target an enemy unit, at least one model in that unit must be within
range (i.e. within the distance of the Range characteristic) of the
weapon being used and be visible to the shooting model. "

You still need actual LOS to shoot a unit, even if the Obscuring rule doesn't cover you. So Triumph of St Katherine can still hide behind a big ruin wall, assuming she's not visible.

Technically obscuring says that the piece never blocks LOS for anything 18W+ or an aircraft, even if it otherwise would if it didn't have the obscuring trait. It's stupid, but that's what it says. The bullet point doesn't say this, but the actual rules text does, and apparently the real text is what matters, not the bullet point.

On page 11 of the rules there's a little square regarding moving over terrain. It's an odd place to have it rather then with the terrain keywords but it does let you make any move up and down terrain as long as you have the needed movespeed. By default you can't move through any terrain taller than an inch but you can always use distance to travel over it.

I was talking about terrain with the obscuring trait. If a repulsor executioner can hide behind something like that so should a spartan or the Triumph.

Yep. Cawl musta outfitted those land raiders with some fancy new treads so they can go straight up vertical walls.

I'm just going to put the Crackdown wall climbing cars on my mental list, along with 1++ saves, as future faq fodder.

Are there any other major RAI vs RAW points cropping up yet? They are always fun, although you have to be careful to move on from debates about them by about page 7.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yep. Cawl musta outfitted those land raiders with some fancy new treads so they can go straight up vertical walls.

Or all the ork vehicles are straight out of that wonderful Anime Movie Redline. The silly gak their vehicles get up to is fantastic.

One thing I'm super curious about is engagement ranges. If your in engagement range you can't shoot right? And every unit has a tube around them going out 1 inch and up 5. Does that mean if you park a vehicle with a base on the ground floor and that engagement range reaches to the second floor does that stop either unit from shooting even though neither are in the 0.5" range needed to swing in melee?

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm just going to put the Crackdown wall climbing cars on my mental list, along with 1++ saves, as future faq fodder.

Are there any other major RAI vs RAW points cropping up yet? They are always fun, although you have to be careful to move on from debates about them by about page 7.

Pretty sure it's intended for the land raider to be able to go up and down the wall. The wording is really clear on this.

Whether it's stupid or not is another question. Just like how in the past edition the grot could stand on the barrel and laugh at the carnifex. That was stupid, but intended.

 Trickstick wrote:
Are there any other major RAI vs RAW points cropping up yet?

The fact that the rules let a single psyker cast Smite multiple times in a turn is surely going to be FAQ'd day 1, right?

Just see the whole moving up and down as the tank or monster charging through the wall and losing movement because of it.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Pretty sure it's intended for the land raider to be able to go up and down the wall. The wording is really clear on this.

Whether it's stupid or not is another question. Just like how in the past edition the grot could stand on the barrel and laugh at the carnifex. That was stupid, but intended.

I think the problem is with the scaleable rule. Without it, you could have terrain like ramps and hills, perfect for driving over. However, scaleable only matters for ending your move, where I think it is intended to restrict vehicles from moving over at all.

Eh, I've been through too many RAI vs RAW debates in my life to care much anymore about the endless debates, but knowing the two positions is still useful. Just HYWPI and move on, or ask a TO if you have to.

Tabletop titans again (paraphrasing): 9th is a shooting edition, all these changes that seem to nerf melee absolutely do, all our testing has come up with the result that shooting is hugely buffed and melee is boned

Also, you have to choose warlord traits, relics, psychic powers, etc on your datasheet, before you see your opponent's army. No customization at all any more of any kind. Everything needs to be done before on your army list.

This is a huge change, and a really negative one in my opinion. It really sucks having to choose relics and powers before you know the match-up. I didn't even realize this myself looking at the rules. What a huge bummer, and the result is going to be far more homogenization as people will go for safe choices instead of interesting ones.

Trickstick wrote:I'm just going to put the Crackdown wall climbing cars on my mental list, along with 1++ saves, as future faq fodder.

Are there any other major RAI vs RAW points cropping up yet? They are always fun, although you have to be careful to move on from debates about them by about page 7.

I'd add this:

yukishiro1 wrote:Technically obscuring says that the piece never blocks LOS for anything 18W+ or an aircraft, even if it otherwise would if it didn't have the obscuring trait. It's stupid, but that's what it says. The bullet point doesn't say this, but the actual rules text does, and apparently the real text is what matters, not the bullet point.

So technically if a piece of terrain has the obscuring trait something can be on the other side of it, behind a solid wall that it can't see through, and freely fire on a super heavy, which it can't see. Makes sense.

Thanks for explaining it btw Yukishiro.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yep. Cawl musta outfitted those land raiders with some fancy new treads so they can go straight up vertical walls.

Or you slow way down and bulldoze through the wall.

I do like the change to multicharge that now you have to get into range of all declared targets to succeed, no more declaring an extra unit way far back just for the off chance you can then tag it with the pile in move.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yep. Cawl musta outfitted those land raiders with some fancy new treads so they can go straight up vertical walls.

Or you slow way down and bulldoze through the wall.

Well, but you don't. The wall is still there and functioning.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yep. Cawl musta outfitted those land raiders with some fancy new treads so they can go straight up vertical walls.

Or you slow way down and bulldoze through the wall.

Well, but you don't. The wall is still there and functioning.

Same as if you drop an icbm on a unit hiding right behind it.

I still don't understand the RAI behind the Heavy Cover trait. So a unit charging a defender gets a +1 to their save, but the defender dug into cover doesn't? I'm glad this isn't how real life works or pikemen would have been terrible.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yep. Cawl musta outfitted those land raiders with some fancy new treads so they can go straight up vertical walls.

Or you slow way down and bulldoze through the wall.

Well, but you don't. The wall is still there and functioning.

Same as if you drop an icbm on a unit hiding right behind it.

Yep. Walls are still indestructible in the 41st millennium, even if they're already full of holes.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, tabletop titans just confirmed that the old release schedule was scrapped due to the leaks; the NDA wasn't set to be lifted until next week.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm going to laugh so fething hard if it doesn't have a 1/2" measurement on it.

The one that was just released for the Lumineth Realm-lords has a half-inch mark.

https://youtu.be/bBLq4ZJFdok

Winters SEO goes through the terrain rules. Biggest surprise is that ruins don’t offer the dense cover trait, meaning units within can be shot at normal BS

yukishiro1 wrote:
Brad Chester's AOW40k podcast interview made it sound like the playtesters possibly didn't have the new points values when they were testing. Several times he said stuff like "we'll have to see what the points are for X," which I guess could just be "I can't tell you that," but I sorta interpreted as "I don't know what the points are either."

Yea it could be that he just doesn't know if they settled on something different after feedback.

THs on assault intercessors were apparently an error; you can't do that, at least not until the codex comes out. So for some bizarre reason the normal intercessors have better melee sergeants than the assault ones. Go figure.

TT also said something just now about still using the 8th edition points too. It was a little weasel-y but it did make it sound like they didn't know the new points yet either.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Tabletop titans again (paraphrasing): 9th is a shooting edition, all these changes that seem to nerf melee absolutely do, all our testing has come up with the result that shooting is hugely buffed and melee is boned

Also, you have to choose warlord traits, relics, psychic powers, etc on your datasheet, before you see your opponent's army. No customization at all any more of any kind. Everything needs to be done before on your army list.

This is a huge change, and a really negative one in my opinion. It really sucks having to choose relics and powers before you know the match-up. I didn't even realize this myself looking at the rules. What a huge bummer, and the result is going to be far more homogenization as people will go for safe choices instead of interesting ones.

Yikes. I guess that is the tournament rules?

I'm ok with relics. Marines get abusive with that gak. Psychic powers makes me a little sad, but I have a swap out. It may well force more coherent lists instead of tailoring to the opponent. ALSO - it saves a ton of time.

yukishiro1 wrote:
THs on assault intercessors were apparently an error; you can't do that, at least not until the codex comes out. So for some bizarre reason the normal intercessors have better melee sergeants than the assault ones. Go figure.

I have a huge fear that they just leave it like that and the assault and biker sergeants won't get the same weapons than the shooty sergeants. I mean it would be completely crazy, but that's what they did with the Reivers, Infiltrators and Incursors. Anyone who would actually really benefit of melee weapons won't get them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Tabletop titans again (paraphrasing): 9th is a shooting edition, all these changes that seem to nerf melee absolutely do, all our testing has come up with the result that shooting is hugely buffed and melee is boned

Also, you have to choose warlord traits, relics, psychic powers, etc on your datasheet, before you see your opponent's army. No customization at all any more of any kind. Everything needs to be done before on your army list.

This is a huge change, and a really negative one in my opinion. It really sucks having to choose relics and powers before you know the match-up. I didn't even realize this myself looking at the rules. What a huge bummer, and the result is going to be far more homogenization as people will go for safe choices instead of interesting ones.

Yikes. I guess that is the tournament rules?

I'm ok with relics. Marines get abusive with that gak. Psychic powers makes me a little sad, but I have a swap out. It may well force more coherent lists instead of tailoring to the opponent. ALSO - it saves a ton of time.

I know some local stuff has us do that, keep everything the same throughout the tournament. It does mean you're playing to your strengths and trying to predict what you might see. I tend to do that as a default though, especially if hard copies of a list are required.

I've definitely had that backfire though. Planning to see lots of conscripts early on in the edition and bringing barbed stranglers/flamers/lots of anti-infantry, only to be matched up against the few DG/Marine armies with tanks or .... so it'll be jarring for some.