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Counting only infantry (and bikers), no characters or anything, that's 12 shared datasheet. That's more than some codex have datasheet altogether. Then you can add all the vehicles they have in common, and characters, and stuff. Why on earth would you reprint all of those in a new codex???
I mean, name a non-Legend, non-special character unique entry for Space Wolves. Sorry, I mean non-oldmarine by non-Legend, maybe they won't get Legended just yet .

Yes and if they squat Thunderwolves, Wulfen, Unique flyers, Unique Dread loadouts, etc.

Its like some people are willfully ignorant.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
. Except maybe the dark eldar one, didn't seem much like a character, more like a grunt imo.

That long, bright red hair says it's Lelith in plastic.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Next you'll be telling me that Deathwing Terminators are not different from regular Terminators, and that Death Company are just Assault Marines.

Deathwatch Terminators (not the Knights, the regular ones) are indeed just normal terminators with applied chapter rules. Death Company is a bit different though. They certainly could be represented as an upgrade to assault marines or but it is probaly easier to keep them as separate unit. With With the Primaris (IIRC) it was handled via upgrade stratagem though, so that might be how these things will be done from now on.

I am super interested in seeing how they handle these sort of things.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
In lore? Not realy. Mixed terminator weapons is normal in lore, and you could easily represent their Deathwing rules through keyword shenanigans tied to their Chapter Tactic.

Except that the Deathwing function differently to Terminators in more Codex chapters. They do mix weapons. More Codex Chapters haven't since 2nd Ed.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
They're really not as different as many folks make out.

and that Death Company are just Assault Marines.

Death Company aren't Assault Marines, no-one's saying that.

You did see the start of the sentence, where I said "Next you'll be telling me..." because that gives the sentence context. Context is important for understanding meaning.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So I guess we can expect a "mini-HQ" wave release with mini-HQ for:
- Sisters (confirmed)
- Orks
- Mechanicus
- Dark Eldar
- Chaos marines
Nice! No confirmation on what the non-Sister models are, but they all seem to fit pretty well into a mini-HQ slot. Except maybe the dark eldar one, didn't seem much like a character, more like a grunt imo.
What do you think? All mini-HQ or just the Sister?

[q

The DE might be Murder Brides- elite Wyches, might come with a new Lileth the same way Jain Zar came with the banshees?

Does the Ork not look like a grunt too?

 Crimson wrote:
Deathwatch Terminators (not the Knights, the regular ones) are indeed just normal terminators with applied chapter rules...

And more expanded weapon options. And unique special rules.

So not just normal Terminators.

 Crimson wrote:
Death Company is a bit different though. They certainly could be represented as an upgrade to assault marines or but it is probaly easier to keep them as separate unit.

But feth Grey Hunters/Long Fangs/Blood Claws, amirite?

 Crimson wrote:
With With the Primaris (IIRC) it was handled via upgrade stratagem though, so that might be how these things will be done from now on.

I don't want more strats for making units into something else (Chapter Masters, Skarboyz, etc.). Makes me afraid that come the next CSM Codex, unless Chosen get their own minis, they'll be turned into a Strat as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Except that the Deathwing function differently to Terminators in more Codex chapters. They do mix weapons. More Codex Chapters haven't since 2nd Ed.

Well, I do remember the second edition! But seriously, this is exactly the sort of arbitrary manufactured difference that is not needed nor adds anything to the game. Let everyone mix the terminator weapons again. It is fine.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
In lore? Not realy. Mixed terminator weapons is normal in lore, and you could easily represent their Deathwing rules through keyword shenanigans tied to their Chapter Tactic.

Except that the Deathwing function differently to Terminators in more Codex chapters. They do mix weapons. More Codex Chapters haven't since 2nd Ed.

Salamanders could in 3rd.
Deathwatch can now.
Blood Angels could in 3rd (& 3.5) ed. Space Hulk.
Cataphractii and Tartaros can now for everyone.

Mono-weaopn loadouts is just an arbitrary restriction to give Green Marines a justification for being special.

The Sisters needed another HQ option, so that's good. But another Ad Mech release, even if its just a single model, right after their massive PA release kind of stinks. Unless its one of those models they release in a battle box that takes months to get released separately.

The ork model intrigues me. Especially the squig cloak. It's clearly Snakebite related, since it has their symbol on its guns (albeit two fangs and not a snake), its shirtless, and they tend to like to wear the hides of animals.

You shush, we needed a Skitarii HQ!!!


Also: remember that Engine War was supposed to have come out in March, not May/June.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Hot take but I think that might be a plastic Nurgle daemon prince. Would be nice to drop the finecrud version.

Don't think so. It's got a goop-flamer, and the glove on it seems normal sized. Probably just another elite slot character.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
In lore? Not realy. Mixed terminator weapons is normal in lore, and you could easily represent their Deathwing rules through keyword shenanigans tied to their Chapter Tactic.

Except that the Deathwing function differently to Terminators in more Codex chapters. They do mix weapons. More Codex Chapters haven't since 2nd Ed.

Many Chapters mix weapons in lore (Space Hulk Blood Angels), and Cataphractii/Tartaros Termies mix weapons too. But put on the old Indomitus pattern and, oops, can't mix and match, because that's total sense, right?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
They're really not as different as many folks make out.

and that Death Company are just Assault Marines.

Death Company aren't Assault Marines, no-one's saying that.

You did see the start of the sentence, where I said "Next you'll be telling me..." because that gives the sentence context. Context is important for understanding meaning.

So, you just made a strawman.

I for one welcome our new Palatine underlord.

If that's really Lelith I foresee complaints along the same lines as Drazhar got, looking fairly indistinguishable from the associated rank and file unit. Hope it's actually, as has been suggested, just an elite Wych.

Kitane wrote:
Let's hope the SM codex is an honest attempt to fix that horrible mistake from the last year.

(haha, silly me)

Naah GW decided instead marines are still lacking in free bonuses

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But feth Grey Hunters/Long Fangs/Blood Claws, amirite?

They're just names, they aren't actually different in any meaningfull sense. Death Company is more different. Objectively observe the amount of genuine differences between the datasheets.

I don't want more strats for making units into something else (Chapter Masters, Skarboyz, etc.). Makes me afraid that come the next CSM Codex, unless Chosen get their own minis, they'll be turned into a Strat as well.

Yeah, honestly I don't like the upgrade strat approach either, but that's their current paradigm. That being said, the part I don't like about this is 'stratagem', not the 'upgrade.' If these upgrades were just part of the dataseheet and costed points it would be perfectly fine and elegant way to handle things.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Many Chapters mix weapons in lore (Space Hulk Blood Angels), and Cataphractii/Tartaros Termies mix weapons too. But put on the old Indomitus pattern and, oops, can't mix and match, because that's total sense, right?

Regular Terminators, which is what we're talking about here, don't. The lore even talks about the distinct types of regular Terminator units - Terminator Squads and Assault Terminator Squads. They're specific Codex distinctions. So I really don't know what you're blathering about.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So, you just made a strawman.

I don't think you actually know what that word means, so... yeah...

Nice to see that marines only get 1 capt and 2 Lt per detachment though.

 Arbitrator wrote:
People suddenly like it's design? To me it looks like somebody photshopped a Repulsor and shrunk it down a bit.

It doesn't have bazillion gun pointing in every direction so it's improvement. Main gun and 2 sponsons is more akin to original marine tanks than repulsor where you need datasheet to remember all guns

Another issue for me with this is going to be in the timing. It states that the core codex replaces all the marine books bar the current supplements (UM, scars etc). So how long is the gap going to be between Codex Space marines and DA, BA, SW, DW supplements? How will those players use their unique units in that interim? If it's a long time, then it will suck awfully and I'll probably just use the old dex plus PA supplement.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Are those 4 mini death rays? Like off the doom scythe??

'
Sure looks like. And if that thing is supposed to go toe to toe with knights as GW claims it needs them

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Many Chapters mix weapons in lore (Space Hulk Blood Angels), and Cataphractii/Tartaros Termies mix weapons too. But put on the old Indomitus pattern and, oops, can't mix and match, because that's total sense, right?

Regular Terminators, which is what we're talking about here, don't.

But why, beyond forced exclusivity? What makes an Indomitus Terminator inflexible, but Cataphractii Terminators in the same chapter flexible?

The lore even talks about the distinct types of regular Terminator units - Terminator Squads and Assault Terminator Squads. They're specific Codex distinctions. So I really don't know what you're blathering about.

Ah yes, the distinct Terminators in Space Hulk, which has... mixed Terminator Squads.

And those Codex distinct Assault Tartaros and Assault Cataphractii... oh, no, they don't exist. Why not? There's no logic in it beyond pure inertia.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So, you just made a strawman.

I don't think you actually know what that word means, so... yeah...

You made up an argument to oppose. No-one had any issue with Death Company.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:
Another issue for me with this is going to be in the timing. It states that the core codex replaces all the marine books bar the current supplements (UM, scars etc). So how long is the gap going to be between Codex Space marines and DA, BA, SW, DW supplements? How will those players use their unique units in that interim? If it's a long time, then it will suck awfully and I'll probably just use the old dex plus PA supplement.

Hopefully they'll be released simultaneously - no objection to supplements, but there shouldn't be any kind of waiting period for the DA/BA/SW.

 The Phazer wrote:
Looks like we might be getting a little wave of various characters like some were speculating in the Rumour Engine thread.

That's cool. Nice way to give lots of different factions something.

Presumably that Big Mek with a KFF might be in this group. Looks like the DE model is Lilith.

Would be nice if Nids could be thrown a bone with a lictor or something...

I'm thinking they might be saving Nids for a larger update later- all those factions got updates in 8th [granted the DE one was a single unit and character but that might be a blood bride to go along with the teased Lileth].

Voss wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Hot take but I think that might be a plastic Nurgle daemon prince. Would be nice to drop the finecrud version.

Don't think so. It's got a goop-flamer, and the glove on it seems normal sized. Probably just another elite slot character.

But the gooper and a big fist are a one of the DPoN's loadouts so I will keep the hope alive. But I honestly would take anything HQ wise right now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
With With the Primaris (IIRC) it was handled via upgrade stratagem though, so that might be how these things will be done from now on.

I don't want more strats for making units into something else (Chapter Masters, Skarboyz, etc.). Makes me afraid that come the next CSM Codex, unless Chosen get their own minis, they'll be turned into a Strat as well.

Please, don't give them ideas. That's all we need, another way to make everything for csm cost CP.

Grey hunters are not tactical marines. They get bolt pistol, chainsword, and bolter. They can not take heavy weapons. A squad of 10 can take 3 plasma guns and a plasma pistol.

Blood claws are not assault marines. They are troops, they have bs of 4, and they get 2 attacks on the charge.

Long fangs can have a max of 7 men in the squad, 5 of them can have heavy wapons and one target of theirs they get reroll 1's vs. They are not a dev squad.

These may seem like little things to you but they actually are different than the normal marine setup which makes the units work differently than normal marines.They always have been.

Just like wolf scouts, they are an elite that outflanks for free instead of forward deployment. They have different weapon options. They are not used in the same way as normal scouts.

Saying death company is more different in a meaningful sense vs wolves special units is just wrong. Its the same thing.

But this is all off topic. I am happy they are going the supplement route for angels / wolves / deathwatch.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Next you'll be telling me that Deathwing Terminators are not different from regular Terminators

In lore? Not realy. Mixed terminator weapons is normal in lore, and you could easily represent their Deathwing rules through keyword shenanigans tied to their Chapter Tactic.

They're really not as different as many folks make out.

and that Death Company are just Assault Marines.

Death Company aren't Assault Marines, no-one's saying that.

Yeah, they're vanguard vets.

 Sasori wrote:

NEPHREKH: TRANSLOCATION BEAMS
Models with this code have a 6+ invulnerable save.
Each time a unit witth this code advances, it can translocate. If it does, do not make an advance roll for it. Instead, until the end of ttthe phase, add 6" to the move characteristic of the models in that unit. If a model translocated, until the end of the turn, models in that unit cannot shoot..

Damn no shooting? Nephrekh being relegated to melee only. Not fan. Maybe going to switch dynasties. Losing non assault shooting was already hard enough. All shooting? Uhhuh

 bullyboy wrote:
Another issue for me with this is going to be in the timing. It states that the core codex replaces all the marine books bar the current supplements (UM, scars etc). So how long is the gap going to be between Codex Space marines and DA, BA, SW, DW supplements? How will those players use their unique units in that interim? If it's a long time, then it will suck awfully and I'll probably just use the old dex plus PA supplement.

The UM/WS, etc 'dexes were out very quickly after SM 2.0 dropped. Considering this is a new edition launch where hype and sales are at their biggest, no way are GW going to miss a beat by releasing them later rather than sooner.

I'm a bit bothered by the rate at which they pump out new plastic kit for the SM. This is ridiculous : do we really need a new tank now that we already have a full box of new units, a chaplain on bike, and buggy, a fortification, a techmarine and a techmarine with its gun coming out ????
The army has no visibility with all those new units. I think I'll just stop buying SM altogether and keep playing with my CSM.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Another issue for me with this is going to be in the timing. It states that the core codex replaces all the marine books bar the current supplements (UM, scars etc). So how long is the gap going to be between Codex Space marines and DA, BA, SW, DW supplements? How will those players use their unique units in that interim? If it's a long time, then it will suck awfully and I'll probably just use the old dex plus PA supplement.

The UM/WS, etc 'dexes were out very quickly after SM 2.0 dropped. Considering this is a new edition launch where hype and sales are at their biggest, no way are GW going to miss a beat by releasing them later rather than sooner.

They have like 4 month of release with all the supplements.

Azuza001 wrote:
Grey hunters are not tactical marines. They get bolt pistol, chainsword, and bolter. They can not take heavy weapons. A squad of 10 can take 3 plasma guns and a plasma pistol.

You miiiight want to re-read that unit entry.