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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whyyyyyyyy are we having to wait until October.

Actual footage of me.

Global epidemics & whatnot combined with the communities inability not to gak-fit at GW whenever a marine book is released would be my guess.

 Grimgold wrote:
Anyone notice how expensive the lokhust heavy destroyer is, odds are heavy destroyers are getting the obliterator treatment, more wounds, better defense, bigger gun. Since they called them out as being different units, they don't mean the lokhust heavy destroyer to be a new version of the existing model. Having two data sheets for heavy destroyers might get a bit confusing so maybe the current heavy destroyers become an equipment option for normal destroyers.

If you ignore the 'Lokhust' part of the name it's just a Heavy Destroyer, which the FA slot Destroyers can take 1/unit as is.
Currently the 'normal' Haeavy Destroyers can be in units of 1-3. According to the Field Manual/Points page the 'Lokhust' is in units of 1-3. So it's probably an up-gunned version and not a situation of Destroyer/Heavy Destroyer/Lokhust Heavy Destroyer (at least when the codex comes out, if the model is released before that then yes, we will have multiple entries unless GW removes the 'old' entry from lists and points at the new one as a replacement)

 BroodSpawn wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Anyone notice how expensive the lokhust heavy destroyer is, odds are heavy destroyers are getting the obliterator treatment, more wounds, better defense, bigger gun. Since they called them out as being different units, they don't mean the lokhust heavy destroyer to be a new version of the existing model. Having two data sheets for heavy destroyers might get a bit confusing so maybe the current heavy destroyers become an equipment option for normal destroyers.

If you ignore the 'Lokhust' part of the name it's just a Heavy Destroyer, which the FA slot Destroyers can take 1/unit as is.
Currently the 'normal' Haeavy Destroyers can be in units of 1-3. According to the Field Manual/Points page the 'Lokhust' is in units of 1-3. So it's probably an up-gunned version and not a situation of Destroyer/Heavy Destroyer/Lokhust Heavy Destroyer (at least when the codex comes out, if the model is released before that then yes, we will have multiple entries unless GW removes the 'old' entry from lists and points at the new one as a replacement)

Unless there's yet another kit lurking about I honestly think we're just down to the 1 floaty destroyer now, if the 2 gun options cover both elite infantry clearing and vehicle destroying options, it can do whatever the original 2 entries could anyway. I can't see what having another unit entry on the same chassis/niche will help with.

Has anyone tried putting the new warrior guns/heads on the old warriors?
(Do you get spare heads in he's push fit kits?)

MrPieChee wrote:
H(Do you get spare heads in he's push fit kits?)

Yep, 20 heads (& 20 weapons, 10x Flayers & 10x Reapers, as well as 3 Scarab swarms) per set of 10 warriors.

Dudeface wrote:

 BroodSpawn wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Anyone notice how expensive the lokhust heavy destroyer is, odds are heavy destroyers are getting the obliterator treatment, more wounds, better defense, bigger gun. Since they called them out as being different units, they don't mean the lokhust heavy destroyer to be a new version of the existing model. Having two data sheets for heavy destroyers might get a bit confusing so maybe the current heavy destroyers become an equipment option for normal destroyers.

If you ignore the 'Lokhust' part of the name it's just a Heavy Destroyer, which the FA slot Destroyers can take 1/unit as is.
Currently the 'normal' Haeavy Destroyers can be in units of 1-3. According to the Field Manual/Points page the 'Lokhust' is in units of 1-3. So it's probably an up-gunned version and not a situation of Destroyer/Heavy Destroyer/Lokhust Heavy Destroyer (at least when the codex comes out, if the model is released before that then yes, we will have multiple entries unless GW removes the 'old' entry from lists and points at the new one as a replacement)

Unless there's yet another kit lurking about I honestly think we're just down to the 1 floaty destroyer now, if the 2 gun options cover both elite infantry clearing and vehicle destroying options, it can do whatever the original 2 entries could anyway. I can't see what having another unit entry on the same chassis/niche will help with.

We shall see, time will tell i guess. I wouldn't mind a lesser destroyer for killing light vehicles or heavy infantry because as it stands enmitic weapons so far have been high shot number med strength low AP low dam so could do with a med strength high Ap weapons med damage weapon

Five bucks says the Lokust Destroyer is this.

M 10
WS 3+
BS 3+
S 4
T 5
W 3
A 2
LD 10
Save 3+
Still have Hardwired Hatred etc to reroll 1s.

Gun is a Heavy Gauss Cannon, with the statline being reworked to be Heavy D3 shots, Str 9, AP-4, d6

 iGuy91 wrote:
Five bucks says the Lokust Destroyer is this.

M 10
WS 3+
BS 3+
S 4
T 5
W 3
A 2
LD 10
Save 3+
Still have Hardwired Hatred etc to reroll 1s.

Gun is a Heavy Gauss Cannon, with the statline being reworked to be Heavy D3 shots, Str 9, AP-4, d6

Completely agree except for the weapon stats. I think they'll get a specific gauss weapon only for them. Hopefully S8/9 Ap3 D3

 iGuy91 wrote:
Five bucks says the Lokust Destroyer is this.

M 10
WS 3+
BS 3+
S 4
T 5
W 3
A 2
LD 10
Save 3+
Still have Hardwired Hatred etc to reroll 1s.

Gun is a Heavy Gauss Cannon, with the statline being reworked to be Heavy D3 shots, Str 9, AP-4, d6

I know GW is bad at balance, but if they make heavy destroyers go from 40 to 70 points, when they’re already bad, and give them the same stat line just with D3 shots, they might as well take them from the assembly line and put them straight into the bin. I mean, I’m not expecting them to be good or viable but I do expect they’ll be somewhat better than that. I’m expecting S5, probably W4 or 5, and the gun to be maybe Heavy 2 - i.e. still bad but with a reason for the raised points.

Heavy destroyers bad? Lol. After ca19 put them to 39 they became very common　in tournament lists

tneva82 wrote:
Heavy destroyers bad? Lol. After ca19 put them to 39 they became very common　in tournament lists

They became common because they’re cheaper than your only other realistic option for the slot, the Doomsday Ark, in an army with few options - and Necrons didn’t perform well post CA19 either. It’s still not a good idea to pay 37 points for a lascannon, and the fact that they’re some of our only anti-tank means they very often die turn one, so yes, I stand by my assessment. Compare them to haywire skyweavers, eradicators, kataphron destroyers, ironstriders, etc - all of which are either about as durable but more damaging or more durable point for point and about the same damage output. So, maybe not actively bad, but in an army which renders most heavy weapons bad against vehicles, they get destroyed by those weapons immediately, meaning they do nothing but stare menacingly at the opposing army for 1 turn before being put back into storage.

In any case, raising them to a price which is almost double their current one, in a situation where they were never played at 50 points would kill the unit unless they’re also buffed. Frankly, as they stand the gun could be assault 100 S20 AP-6 D10, and in half the games I’ve played it’d change nothing because they’ll have all been focused off the table in the alpha strike. We don’t just need better anti-tank, we need stuff which can actually stay on the table to fire. T5 W3 isn’t cutting the mustard in a world where marines can fire 12+2d6 S4 shots for 40 points. I wish it wasn’t the case, because destroyers are the models which made me start playing Necrons back in 3rd, but it is what it is.

The Lokhust Heavies will really need a good gun to make up for that enormous price hike.

Keeping them out of alpha strike should not be a problem now at least, thanks to strategic reserves.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Five bucks says the Lokust Destroyer is this.

M 10
WS 3+
BS 3+
S 4
T 5
W 3
A 2
LD 10
Save 3+
Still have Hardwired Hatred etc to reroll 1s.

Gun is a Heavy Gauss Cannon, with the statline being reworked to be Heavy D3 shots, Str 9, AP-4, d6

The gun is called a gauss destructor isnt it?

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
The gun is called a gauss destructor isnt it?

When they showed the "Lokhust Heavy Destroyer" they said this:

Fitted with advanced optics and wielding gauss destructors and enmitic exterminators, Lokhusts are programmed to erase the heaviest opposition. Those powerful jets make them highly mobile, and the long reach of their weapons means they’ll be taking out their quarry and making for an especially resilient target.

But which is which, we don't know. There is a "long" sort of "in-line" gun and then the "stacked" parallel, taller one. I think the presumption could be made that the "stacked" gun is the "normal" Destroyer, and the "long" gun is Heavy Destroyer.

But which is called which? I'd guess a Gauss Destructor is the stacked one and the long-barrel is the Enmitic Exterminator. But that is an outright guess, based off nothing.

 H wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
The gun is called a gauss destructor isnt it?

When they showed the "Lokhust Heavy Destroyer" they said this:

Fitted with advanced optics and wielding gauss destructors and enmitic exterminators, Lokhusts are programmed to erase the heaviest opposition. Those powerful jets make them highly mobile, and the long reach of their weapons means they’ll be taking out their quarry and making for an especially resilient target.

But which is which, we don't know. There is a "long" sort of "in-line" gun and then the "stacked" parallel, taller one. I think the presumption could be made that the "stacked" gun is the "normal" Destroyer, and the "long" gun is Heavy Destroyer.

But which is called which? I'd guess a Gauss Destructor is the stacked one and the long-barrel is the Enmitic Exterminator. But that is an outright guess, based off nothing.

Both those weapons are options for the Lokhust heavy destroyer, they have more than 1 option now, the Gauss one is the one that looks like a large Gauss Flayer and the Enmitic Exterminator is the one that looks like a larger version of the Skorpekh Lords Enmtic weapon

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Both those weapons are options for the Lokhust heavy destroyer, they have more than 1 option now, the Gauss one is the one that looks like a large Gauss Flayer and the Enmitic Exterminator is the one that looks like a larger version of the Skorpekh Lords Enmtic weapon

An interesting point. So, then there really isn't a Lokhust (not Heavy) Destroyer in that case.

I think it makes sense then, that a Lokhust is just a sort of Heavy Destroyer, with two weapon options.

 H wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Both those weapons are options for the Lokhust heavy destroyer, they have more than 1 option now, the Gauss one is the one that looks like a large Gauss Flayer and the Enmitic Exterminator is the one that looks like a larger version of the Skorpekh Lords Enmtic weapon

An interesting point. So, then there really isn't a Lokhust (not Heavy) Destroyer in that case.

I think it makes sense then, that a Lokhust is just a sort of Heavy Destroyer, with two weapon options.

I still think we will see destroyers again, I just don't understand why they would give it heavy in its name and not have a non heavy variant.

I thought the old D.Lord was gonna get squatted but from what they've said it sounds like he's coming back as well with a new lokhust model so im hopeful that all current destroyers will be returning, as it stands im pretty sure we actually got more models the last time we got a major release so I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't seen everything yet




Automatically Appended Next Post:
also something I was thinking about is that all hyperphase weapons revealed so far do at least 2 damage so does any one else think the old hyperhase swords on our lychguard might be getting a buff as well

 H wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Both those weapons are options for the Lokhust heavy destroyer, they have more than 1 option now, the Gauss one is the one that looks like a large Gauss Flayer and the Enmitic Exterminator is the one that looks like a larger version of the Skorpekh Lords Enmtic weapon

An interesting point. So, then there really isn't a Lokhust (not Heavy) Destroyer in that case.

I think it makes sense then, that a Lokhust is just a sort of Heavy Destroyer, with two weapon options.

I think Lokhust is supposed to be the Chassis, under lack of a better term, much like we have Skorpekh as a Chassis.

It serves to reason, with a Skorpekh Lord and a Skorpekh pleb, confirmed existence of a Lokhust Heavy, and the mention of a Lokhust Lord, that we'd have a Lokhust pleb as well.

Of course there's been no mention of lokhust lords. Except in people's mind.

Now if it comes nice but boy what whining how gw broke their words if it doesn't come when gw never has written lokhust destroyer.

tneva82 wrote:
Of course there's been no mention of lokhust lords. Except in people's mind.

Now if it comes nice but boy what whining how gw broke their words if it doesn't come when gw never has written lokhust destroyer.

It's not mentioned explicitly, but it was heavily implied in that article. This could just be a renaming of the Old Destroyer lord.

This was already discussed months ago on twitch. They said skorpekhs were the tripod cc destroyers, lokhust were the current hovering destroyers, and there's a third variation that nobody is giving info on. Some people think it's the unit lurking behind the monolith in the preview photos.

I got an interesting idea on necron warriors. Maybe I can run it by all the necron players here. Necron warriors are actually pretty good, and the absolute best candidate for reanimation protocols. A smart opponent who knows how powerful reanimation protocols is, will try and make sure he wipes out necron warrior squads completely in one turn so that there is no chance of using RP.

Conversely, if we can weaken our opponent's firepower to the point where he finds it extremely difficult to wipe out a squad of 20 necron warriors in one turn, then suddenly, we can bring the full power of RP to bear, plus this effectively makes our necron warriors squads immortal once we reach that point.

So, how about designing a list that has a strong strike element that is in the opponent's face, and also has good firepower. The objective of this strike element is to reduce the opponent's infantry slaying capabilities to the point where our Necron warrior squads will then become unkillable. Plus, because they are fast and in your face, they will likely also draw a lot of / most of the opponent's shooting and melee.

So, simplistically, for example, lets say this strike force consists of Wraiths and destroyers. The idea is to keep your necron warriors behind obscuring terrain on turn 1, and maybe even turn 2. Hide them, I think its unlikely that one thunderfire cannon alone is going to be enough to take out 20 necron warrior squads especially if no other units can shoot it. So, since the necron warrior squads are hidden turn 1 and 2, while your wraths and destroyers all charge to the midboard and try and kill as much infantry killers as possible. The opponent will most likely focus on destroying your wraiths and destroyers.

The key idea is ... it doesn't matter even if this strike force is totally wiped out as long as they have achieved their purpose. Primary purpose, kill infantry killers and force all the attention on them.

Now, what happens when we are in turn 3, and now your opponent has his heavy support (lascannons, etc) and a severely diminished infantry killing ability. He didn't manage to get much points from mid board because all your wraiths and destroyers were there mixing it up.

Now, even though your strike force is dead, you still got mostly intact squads of big 20 man necron warriors who are obsec. Which your opponent now cannot kill because he no longer has enough firepower to wipe out a 20 man squad. Maybe he still has a lot of his heavy support left. But Necron warrior squads aren't afraid of a couple of lascannons shot. Even 10 or 12 shots are no big deal. As long as the squad doesn't die, can just reanimate it all back.

So now, our 20 man necron warrior squads can move into the midboard and dominate it, while bringing their guns to bear. At a point in time where suddenly, RP now become totally powerful and in fact the game winner. Imagine your opponent trying his best now, and only killing 19 warriors , and leaving 1, and your turn, most of the squad all comes back.

What do you think?

Interesting idea for sure and needs to be tested in real games to see how well it works.

Wasn't it already leaked that RP will work even on completely wiped out squads? The trade off being you can only roll for models that have been killed in this round.

Or was that debunked already?

As I see it the issue is people tried that at the start of 8th (and I guess all the way through) - and it didn't work. Partly this was because of the high costs for what you got back then - but really because you end up with these sort of "wave lists" - which were not especially hard for your opponent to deal with.

So when facing Necrons:
Turn 1 - kill Tomb Blades and put some shots into Wraiths.
Turn 2, Destroyers are probably DSing in (because otherwise you focus them instead) and will almost certainly kill something. Unfortunately for the Necron player, since they have a substantial footprint, its usually pretty obvious where they are going to go and now the rest of your army nukes them and mops up any of the surviving units above.
Turn 3. Necron Warriors with character support are finally getting up the table to be a threat - but the Necron Army hasn't done much to me, so its trivial to just destroy one unit after another for the rest of the game.

If the Necron player went first maybe they will inflict some damage - but if they went second, it was usually a horrible one-sided affair, because I have 2000 synergised points going into three rather unsupported forces. If say you were unlucky and they got RP off? And it raised 10 necron warriors or something? Just kill them next turn.

I don't know if everyone remembers the very excitable moment when the 8th edition indexes were leaked where people all across the internet *proved* Necrons would be overpowered, because it was hard (without specifically building for it) to *kill* a Necron squad with *only* 240 points of your own forces.
As people found more or less on game 1 though, the game isn't a succession of duels between 250~ point groups. Instead you can focus 600-800 points of just about anything into Necron warriors, and they get wiped just like anything else. Unless you're opponent has a list composed entirely of lascannons, its unclear why that wouldn't be the case now.

Really the problem with big blobs of Necron Warriors is that they are expensive and inflexible for what you get. Their shooting is respectable in rapid fire range, but not great outside it and unfortunately, left to their own devices, they are slow. They also can't really fight their way out of a paper bag. Things like the Royal Warden may help that - but losing 240 points of shooting because someone ran a rhino/wave serpent or even a relatively derisory number of infantry into you hurts.

With that said, smaller tables and more objectives may help - because your opponent will be compelled into the middle of the table and so the rapid fire range of your guns - but I wouldn't be trusting to RP.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Interesting idea for sure and needs to be tested in real games to see how well it works.

Wasn't it already leaked that RP will work even on completely wiped out squads? The trade off being you can only roll for models that have been killed in this round.

Or was that debunked already?

Uh no we have heard no official word whatsoever. Not even rumour. Only speculation.

punisher357 wrote:
This was already discussed months ago on twitch. They said skorpekhs were the tripod cc destroyers, lokhust were the current hovering destroyers, and there's a third variation that nobody is giving info on. Some people think it's the unit lurking behind the monolith in the preview photos.

The thing behind the monolith feels more Canoptek to me then destroyer cult. Unless it's some kind of anti psyker destroyer model

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
This was already discussed months ago on twitch. They said skorpekhs were the tripod cc destroyers, lokhust were the current hovering destroyers, and there's a third variation that nobody is giving info on. Some people think it's the unit lurking behind the monolith in the preview photos.

The thing behind the monolith feels more Canoptek to me then destroyer cult. Unless it's some kind of anti psyker destroyer model

While it's hard to tell, it's face looks like it has the Necron shape and Jaw style, compared to a Canoptek one.

 Sasori wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

punisher357 wrote:
This was already discussed months ago on twitch. They said skorpekhs were the tripod cc destroyers, lokhust were the current hovering destroyers, and there's a third variation that nobody is giving info on. Some people think it's the unit lurking behind the monolith in the preview photos.

The thing behind the monolith feels more Canoptek to me then destroyer cult. Unless it's some kind of anti psyker destroyer model

While it's hard to tell, it's face looks like it has the Necron shape and Jaw style, compared to a Canoptek one.

Well I'm thinking its a Construct similar to Cryptothralls as they themselves have the canoptek keyword, also it appears to mount some esoteric technologies on it.

To me destroyers are big and intimidating whereas this is more weird looking

Also on a side note since cryptothralls have canoptek and infantry keywords they in theory could move 24" in one turn

5+1 for Overlord +6 advance and then activate adaptive subroutines to allow them to still fire pistols and charge

Maybe it'll have something to do with the other Cryptek we haven't seen

Assuming there's a Harbinger of Despair model

From the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page. Love the misspelling with Dias instead of Dais...

EDIT: Now with corrected spelling