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TBH, with destroyers, the new heavy destroyers and the DDA I'm just not seeing any role for the new doomstalker to fill. Maybe if it's cannon could fire in variable modes, like a shorter ranged anti infantry type mode or a good vehicle buster, maybe some other mode, it would have a role.

A tessaract ark has a 3 mode main gun, if this had one it might be worth it too.

As is, I really am not seeing a role for it. Maybe if a cryptek follow and buffs it somehow...

Sumilidon wrote:
it's a weapon called a Doomsday Blaster but doesn't even have the blast rule!

Blaster is a common sci-fi term for energy weapons. Star Wars Blasters and Nerf Blasters don't shoot explosions, either.

 Matt Swain wrote:
TBH, with destroyers, the new heavy destroyers and the DDA I'm just not seeing any role for the new doomstalker to fill. Maybe if it's cannon could fire in variable modes, like a shorter ranged anti infantry type mode or a good vehicle buster, maybe some other mode, it would have a role.

A tessaract ark has a 3 mode main gun, if this had one it might be worth it too.

As is, I really am not seeing a role for it. Maybe if a cryptek follow and buffs it somehow...

I guess this is a flavour choice - but I think 1 shot weapons are generally bad because so much of the time they do nothing.

The Lokhust may look okay on averages - especially against something like a Leman Russ - but against something with a 5++, you have a 35% or so chance to get a wound through (assuming standard destroyer reroll 1s to hit). So that's a 65% chance to do nothing.
Shooting two of them, you have a 43% chance to do nothing. Even with 3 your odds of getting nothing is 28%. Which is going to come up a lot.

Doing the calculations on a Doomstalker (or DDA) is more difficult due to the variable number of shots - but I think generally, if you get 3+ shots, you have higher odds on to get *something* through compared with two Lokhusts - even if D6 damage is a lot worse than 3D3.

Stratagems, buffs, synergies may change it - but still.

Sumilidon wrote:
After seeing the Doom Stalker it would seem GW are returning to their old ways. That thing needs to be cheap in order to be any good because BS4 is pants, random shots are pants and it's a weapon called a Doomsday Blaster but doesn't even have the blast rule!

Stormtrooper weapons are blasters in sw but no big explosion.

And you really don't want blast to this. It's nothing but nerf

In the end some choices are going to be hard until we see the new Codex in full and the rest of the unit roster. Some units might appear bad, but are cheap and also designed to work in groups with buff units etc... Others might just be cheap or have other benefits outside of the weapon profile.

Well, one thing to make the doom stalker and the DDA more attractive with the lokhust heavy destroyer now would be to just give them MWs on hit roll of 6, plus it kinds puts the whole "Doom" thing in doomsday cannons.

They could also just stop giving us random damage. Or anyone random damage. Or random shots. All those mechanics are completely ridiculous, honestly, and they've already shown they're happy to make blasts fixed shots in certain circumstances. Such a "feel bad" mechanic, introducing randomness for the sake of randomness.

torblind wrote:


Could you say something about the variance of the damage output.

It can be nice to be able to bring some stable and some variable damage dealers. For example you start your shooting by firing the higher variance shooters, proabbly the HDs, and lo and behold, they roll 5 and 6 for their D6 damages. Now you can go with lower damage output units to fininsh the LRBT off. On the other hand, if you roll 1 and 2 for the damage, then right, you bring in the cavalry to finish them off any way. Allows you to better capitalize on luck.

I like the way you think.

The lokhust heavy destroyer is ~80 pts, can't reroll 1s to hit, has no RP, and gets -1 to hit when it moves ? What a pathetic joke.

 p5freak wrote:
The lokhust heavy destroyer is ~80 pts, can't reroll 1s to hit, has no RP, and gets -1 to hit when it moves ? What a pathetic joke.

I’m quite sure that they will have those rule in their “regular” data sheet

 p5freak wrote:
The lokhust heavy destroyer is ~80 pts, can't reroll 1s to hit, has no RP, and gets -1 to hit when it moves ? What a pathetic joke.

Nah, that's clearly a simplified datasheet similar to those shown to be in the new starter sets (where the Necron Warriors don't have either RP or Their number is legion).

Stolen from reddit, Trairch Stalkers got a whole lot more interesting.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Stolen from reddit, Trairch Stalkers got a whole lot more interesting.

Huh the Heavy Gauss Cannon has a lot more in common with the regular gauss cannon now?

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Stolen from reddit, Trairch Stalkers got a whole lot more interesting.

Huh the Heavy Gauss Cannon has a lot more in common with the regular gauss cannon now?

Maybe. It depends what they did to the regular cannon.
But the new HGC is a +1 strength, +6" range version of the current gauss cannon. So who knows what they did to that- buff if they nerf it too much, it just becomes a gauss blaster.
Though this isn't necessarily a nerf. Multiple shots makes the HGC a lot better against a lot of targets. (though the to-wound chart makes it indistinguishable from the current GC against a fair number of those, like most elite infantry)

The odd thing about it is the Stalker with twin HGC does the job of Enmitic Lokhust, but better.

tneva82 wrote:

armisael wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sasori wrote:
The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...

I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.

Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth

do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

armisael wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sasori wrote:
The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...

I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.

Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth

do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?

Depends the range of the weapons, really.

Ok guys, hear me out.

Now that we have seen the icons on the Stalker's weapons, and that they look like an explosion, for what we can assume is still Heavy (and I must say the new Particle Cannon is spicy, in my personal opinion), does this mean that the 5e-troops-icon we see on the Wraith T.Beams mean they are Assault Weapons?

Because if they are, I am thinking that our Wraiths gotta double down on being objective holders/counter attack kinda unit, because the changes to the claws coupled with the big gun being assault, I can actually see these guys being exceptionally good as an anchor point instead of a spearhead.

Also curious what the new Whips do....

Or am I being short-sighted and desperate to use the stuff stuck on my wriaths (the came from ebay like that, don't flame me)

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Stolen from reddit, Trairch Stalkers got a whole lot more interesting.

Huh the Heavy Gauss Cannon has a lot more in common with the regular gauss cannon now?

Looks like it might be a twin Gauss Cannon rather than a Heavy Gauss Cannon judging by the stats. Maybe the heavy cannon is gone completely, replaced by the new weapon on the Heavy Lokhust Destroyer?

They could also be just naming as a new Gauss weapon too.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

armisael wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sasori wrote:
The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...

I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.

Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth

do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?

Seeing you reach most targets and hit on 4+ when moving not that much. 1 shot that miss half the time...other shoots 4 time and even on move on 3+

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

armisael wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sasori wrote:
The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...

I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.

Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth

do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?

Seeing you reach most targets and hit on 4+ when moving not that much. 1 shot that miss half the time...other shoots 4 time and even on move on 3+

you're still trying to compare a turret to a mobile strike unit. you'd be better off comparing this to primaris supressors.

 IHateNids wrote:
Ok guys, hear me out.

Now that we have seen the icons on the Stalker's weapons, and that they look like an explosion, for what we can assume is still Heavy (and I must say the new Particle Cannon is spicy, in my personal opinion), does this mean that the 5e-troops-icon we see on the Wraith T.Beams mean they are Assault Weapons?

Because if they are, I am thinking that our Wraiths gotta double down on being objective holders/counter attack kinda unit, because the changes to the claws coupled with the big gun being assault, I can actually see these guys being exceptionally good as an anchor point instead of a spearhead.

Also curious what the new Whips do....

Or am I being short-sighted and desperate to use the stuff stuck on my wriaths (the came from ebay like that, don't flame me)

Nobody knows until we get updated pts, hopefully particle casters will no longer be free, because while they are they are the obvious option.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

armisael wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sasori wrote:
The Enmitic weapon looks even worse when compared to the new SM bike and turret...

I just feel that, with same PL as Lokust Heavy Destroyer, it seem that the turret is far better.

Well it's marines. Of course it's better. We are better off comparing our stuff to other non-imperial marines. Npc vs npc is meaningfull comparison. Npc vs master faction just leaves sour taste in mouth

do you think a 10 inch movement profile vs a 3 inch movement profile isn't worth ANY points?

Seeing you reach most targets and hit on 4+ when moving not that much. 1 shot that miss half the time...other shoots 4 time and even on move on 3+

you're still trying to compare a turret to a mobile strike unit. you'd be better off comparing this to primaris supressors.

1 shot weapon that hits on 4+ on move　isn't mobile strike unit. You are trying to turn turret into mobile strike uni'

[/spoiler]

Number of shots does not denote if something is a 'mobile strike platform'. Ability to move and fire at a significant degree over normal units does. 10" vs 6", even if both had a 1 shot weapon, would suggest that the 10" moving unit is more mobile.

I got half of an Indominatus box and so are adding some cool new models to my Necron army. But... I honestly don't know how they fit in... For that matter, I have been having problems thinking what are Necrons supposed to be good at? Close combat doesn't seem like our forte. We have some killy units, but compared to some dedicated melee armies, I think we definitely aren't there.

Shooty? I don't think we are the shootiest army. But we definitely shoot better than we fight. Maybe we survive better, so even though our shooting is not the most devastating out there, but because we last longer, over the long term, we might actually shoot out more damage. Again... this seems debatable. Are we really that resilient ? Because of RP ? RP only works if the opponent can't totally kill off a whole unit. Otherwise, it might as well not exist.

So, in designing an army, with the option to use the units from the Indominatus box, what should I aim for ? Silver tide? Wraiths and destroyers and flyers ?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I got half of an Indominatus box and so are adding some cool new models to my Necron army. But... I honestly don't know how they fit in... For that matter, I have been having problems thinking what are Necrons supposed to be good at? Close combat doesn't seem like our forte. We have some killy units, but compared to some dedicated melee armies, I think we definitely aren't there.

Shooty? I don't think we are the shootiest army. But we definitely shoot better than we fight. Maybe we survive better, so even though our shooting is not the most devastating out there, but because we last longer, over the long term, we might actually shoot out more damage. Again... this seems debatable. Are we really that resilient ? Because of RP ? RP only works if the opponent can't totally kill off a whole unit. Otherwise, it might as well not exist.

So, in designing an army, with the option to use the units from the Indominatus box, what should I aim for ? Silver tide? Wraiths and destroyers and flyers ?

IMO the Indomitus box is weird. Its a good addition as long as you already own necrons heavy hitting model but otherwise its a bit useless. I think GW wants to characterise Necrons as being good at attrition but they die too easily. I'd just paint the models and wait till October and see what the new codex brings.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I got half of an Indominatus box and so are adding some cool new models to my Necron army. But... I honestly don't know how they fit in... For that matter, I have been having problems thinking what are Necrons supposed to be good at? Close combat doesn't seem like our forte. We have some killy units, but compared to some dedicated melee armies, I think we definitely aren't there.

Shooty? I don't think we are the shootiest army. But we definitely shoot better than we fight. Maybe we survive better, so even though our shooting is not the most devastating out there, but because we last longer, over the long term, we might actually shoot out more damage. Again... this seems debatable. Are we really that resilient ? Because of RP ? RP only works if the opponent can't totally kill off a whole unit. Otherwise, it might as well not exist.

So, in designing an army, with the option to use the units from the Indominatus box, what should I aim for ? Silver tide? Wraiths and destroyers and flyers ?

You've put your finger on why Necrons are bad right now. They don't really do anything. They're supposed to be resilient and good at mid-range shooting but the reality is they just aren't. Their shooting is eclipsed by lots of other armies in the game, especially because their original schtick of having AP on even their basic guns has been completely outclassed by SM. Reanimation is too easy to play around, so what we end up with is expensive troops with low-impact shooting and fairly poor close combat.

The Indomitus box doesn't really contain many good units, if any, TBH. The Cryptothralls are decent for 9th's objective-based game but everything else feels like it's waiting for the new Codex. You probably can't go too far wrong building the Warriors and characters for now, then waiting until October.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I got half of an Indominatus box and so are adding some cool new models to my Necron army. But... I honestly don't know how they fit in... For that matter, I have been having problems thinking what are Necrons supposed to be good at? Close combat doesn't seem like our forte. We have some killy units, but compared to some dedicated melee armies, I think we definitely aren't there.

Shooty? I don't think we are the shootiest army. But we definitely shoot better than we fight. Maybe we survive better, so even though our shooting is not the most devastating out there, but because we last longer, over the long term, we might actually shoot out more damage. Again... this seems debatable. Are we really that resilient ? Because of RP ? RP only works if the opponent can't totally kill off a whole unit. Otherwise, it might as well not exist.

So, in designing an army, with the option to use the units from the Indominatus box, what should I aim for ? Silver tide? Wraiths and destroyers and flyers ?

As Slipspace said, this has been a problem for Necrons for years. They don't shoot well, their combat is bad, their lack of invulns makes them squishy and reanimation rarely triggers. It's hard to suggest what to do, because the new codex will probably change everything - and I mean everything, there's not been a single Necron codex release where previous playstyles have worked, except maybe at a push comparing the 3e destroyer build to the 7e decurion. If reanimation changes, and there's very good indications that it'll have some significant change, that can affect how the army is built. Likewise, a load of units are having stat changes which are potentially very impactful, such as Praetorians getting 2 damage rods, Spyders getting 5 S8 attacks in melee, or the Triarch Stalker gaining 2 wounds. Because of that, and codices being increasingly reliant on synergies, I don't feel like we can give you any useful advice as it could all be wrong when the codex comes out in ~2 months. If you can hold off on purchases, I probably would. If you'd like to know the scale of how little we know, there's a new thing called rites of reanimation which Crypteks seems to get, which we have no idea what it does; there's command protocols, which other than being limited in some capacity to within 6" of a character we don't know what they do; one of the canoptek unit upgrades in crusade let's them get an automatic 6 for reanimation protocols - but they don't have reanimation protocols, etc etc. And there's more nuance than there appears to be even then! Take, for example, that canoptek upgrade - would GW really give canoptek units a 1 in 3 chance of having a useless upgrade if only some canoptek units were to get RP? And if all of them can get it somehow, how does that work with the Doomstalker, Reanimator, etc, which are single models? Again, it seems quite unlikely the upgrade is pointless for them, so will it act like FNP? We just don't know. So, my only real advice is get the indomitus stuff assembled and painted, then chill for a while,

Agreeing with most of what you wrote, I just think the part of the Canoptek units is less of a mystery than what you imply.

You have the stratagem REPAIR SUBROUTINES already which gives Canoptek RP for one round. So having an automatic 6 means you won't waste your command points.

I really love the theme of Skorpekh Destroyer and Skorpekh Lord.
But I just wonder, is it a chance for Skopekh Heavy Destroyer. The model would be cool.