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2020/10/03 15:30:05
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Lots of details. (also long, and I suspect the author's enthusiasm at a new codex that doesn't completely suck is obscuring some issues and overstating others)
CORE units are non-Canoptek units that are also sane. (Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, Deathmarks, Tomb Blades) Praetorians answer to a higher power so they aren't Core (but get stuff from the SK, as he is the 'higher power')
This limits MWBD and Relentless March a lot. The folks who did the Indomitus profile (or the editors) were really on a different planet.
Expected Weirdness:
The 'lokhust lord' is just the old destroyer lord
Flayed Ones aren't core. [The author makes a weird deal about not understanding this, but fluffwise, flayed ones are bizarre aberrations that are despised and outcast. Of course they aren't Core.]
Unexpected Weirdness:
If the unit has more than one model, it gets RP. If a model has more than 1 wound, it gets living metal. Yes. Including C'tan.
Spyders wandered into the Elite slot.
Praetorians are in Fast Attack now.
'Lokhust' Destroyers are all in HS now.
Nightbringer is the god of murder.
--replacement gaze attack averages about 10 MW.
-- has a sweep attack that works out to 12 attacks
-- alternately has a big attack that ignores everything: Invulnerable, feel no pain, ghaghkull's/necrodermis damage limit ability, all nothing to this.
-- It might be possible that the Nightbringer can one-round anything in the game.
-- Shame about the finecast model, though.
Most Disappointing Weirdness:
Monolith
But why though? Extra expensive and costs CP and all the other issues is just... ugh. I wasn't even sold on the new kit in the first place, and this puts it at 'never buy.' Even with more wounds and a 2+ save
One good thing I'm seeing about both books is the points section got a much needed formatting and readability upgrade
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 15:49:25
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 15:32:44
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Monolith is a lord of war.
Flayed ones don't have core, and my will be done is core only
praetorians are fast attack
Scarabs get living metal
Scythe is a transport 20 unit
Normal destroyer with Gauss cannons are still a thing
Both praetorians and lych guard have living metal
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 16:12:55
2020/10/03 15:44:47
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
To read the review, the C'Tan sound bonkers - but then the named ones are 350, which is getting up towards the cheapest Knight territory/ 50% more than a greater daemon, so they'd kind of have to be.
Necrodermis rule etc - but I think some armies may be able to reasonably reliably pop the 9 wounds in 3 phases, which is a bit awkward. But then with living metal, and potentially other buffs, if you come up against an army that can only do damage in 1-2 phases, they are never going to die.
2020/10/03 15:47:12
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
2020/10/03 15:51:31
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
I think its just the Goonhammer view of the game. Its very tournament focused and fluff often feels left out.
But they do pretty good summaries if you can keep their viewpoint in mind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 15:51:40
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 15:56:24
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Fluffwise yes - although there are questions of how *elite* they meaningfully are, and flayer kingdoms have been a common Necron archetype more or less since the 5th edition retcon. It feels historically they've always been elite just because they get deep strike, which GW don't want on what amounts to an "assault warrior" having.
All in all, I don't think this will effect things very much, but it just seems a bit mean given how far and wide Core seems to go in the Marines book. Hard to see how giving them say My Will Be Done would break the game.
2020/10/03 15:58:26
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Fluffwise yes - although there are questions of how *elite* they meaningfully are, and flayer kingdoms have been a common Necron archetype more or less since the 5th edition retcon. It feels historically they've always been elite just because they get deep strike, which GW don't want on what amounts to an "assault warrior" having.
All in all, I don't think this will effect things very much, but it just seems a bit mean given how far and wide Core seems to go in the Marines book. Hard to see how giving them say My Will Be Done would break the game.
I kind of get the marine Core thing. Yes, its a huge difference and pretty stark in game terms, but its downright weird to say that a fully fledged space marine somehow isn't Core anymore when he picks up a different gun
The major difference is Necrons have a huge servitor class in Canoptek, and a pile of crazies. Both have 'fluffy' reasons not to be considered Core to a Necron legion.
The deep strike aspect is also true, but I feel less bad about that, given that marine Scouts have been summarily booted from Troops (and thus ObSec).
'Elite' doesn't have the same meaning any more with scouts and spyders joining that category. It now seems to be a catch all category: not troops, but also not fast attack or big guns.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 16:17:49
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
I think that goonhammer have made slightly too big a deal of the Nightbringer. Yeah, he's good and will probably 1v1 anything in the game in melee. But he's 350 points. You'd think at that price point, the C'tan would move more than 8" and probably should have a 2+ save
2020/10/03 16:27:25
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Nightbringer is the god of murder.
--replacement gaze attack averages about 10 MW.
10? 3 rolls, 4+ d3 mw. 4.5 mw more like it.
3d6 rolls- average 10,
works on 4+, from 10, average is 5 successes.
d3 mortal wounds each, average is 2.
5*2=10
That article doesn't say you roll 3d6 time for　4+. If you read it even says "kills　4 wound characters half the time".
I beliere guy who wrote the article. He has seen codex.　have you? Article writer　says you roll 3 times. Not 3d6 times
3 times, 4+ so 1.5 times. D3 is 2 so 3. 50% times you get 2 success which averages 4 wounds(though this means you kill　4w character　less than half the time. Error on article writer)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 16:40:30
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/10/03 16:44:56
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Cynista wrote: I think that goonhammer have made slightly too big a deal of the Nightbringer. Yeah, he's good and will probably 1v1 anything in the game in melee. But he's 350 points. You'd think at that price point, the C'tan would move more than 8" and probably should have a 2+ save
His survivability is tied up in the fact that he has the Character rule and necrodermis. You don't want him zooming off ahead of your army.
2020/10/03 16:45:07
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Cynista wrote: I think that goonhammer have made slightly too big a deal of the Nightbringer. Yeah, he's good and will probably 1v1 anything in the game in melee. But he's 350 points. You'd think at that price point, the C'tan would move more than 8" and probably should have a 2+ save
He has a 4++ invulnerable save, he cannot lose more than 3 wounds per phase, he has 9 wounds and he heals 1 wound at the beginning of each command phase. He ignores invulnerable saves and FnP and he hits like a monster truck against hordes and elites.
He is a nightmare to deal with if your army deals most of its damage in a single phase (looking at you, T'au, most Knights and IG), his profile does not degrade and he murders everything he touches.
He fully deserves to be that expensive. Because of its price, he is (probably) not auto-include and rightfully so.
2020/10/03 16:46:30
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Nightbringer is the god of murder.
--replacement gaze attack averages about 10 MW.
10? 3 rolls, 4+ d3 mw. 4.5 mw more like it.
3d6 rolls- average 10,
works on 4+, from 10, average is 5 successes.
d3 mortal wounds each, average is 2.
5*2=10
That article doesn't say you roll 3d6 time for　4+. If you read it even says "kills　4 wound characters half the time".
I beliere guy who wrote the article. He has seen codex.　have you? Article writer　says you roll 3 times. Not 3d6 times
3 times, 4+ so 1.5 times. D3 is 2 so 3. 50% times you get 2 success which averages 4 wounds(though this means you kill　4w character　less than half the time. Error on article writer)
Ah. I misread. My bad
I thought he was saying you rolled 3d6 for the number of rolls, which is a very GW thing to do.
the 'murdering 4W characters half the time. NBD.' read like gibberish to me so I ignored it (still have no idea what the 'NBD' is supposed to stand for).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 16:48:30
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 16:54:04
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Voss wrote: [(still have no idea what the 'NBD' is supposed to stand for).
No Big Deal.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
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2020/10/03 17:01:57
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
The nightbringer is... brutally OP. C'tan are some of the toughest models in the game now, and the nightbringer is a hard counter to everything but the largest horde units.
Like, legit, I think the nightbringer can kill 2000 points of custodes before 2000 points of custodes can kill it XD.
The monolith being a LoW is a weird choice unless they change how LoW interact with force orgs. Cause, otherwise, this thing is probably not getting taken.
nerf to old destroyers is fine in the context of the book getting a big ol' boost overall, they'd be pretty brutal if they kept the same goodies they had in 8th where they were one of a handful of things worth taking.
Warriors being back, I dig it.
2020/10/03 17:02:25
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sim-Life wrote:
His survivability is tied up in the fact that he has the Character rule and necrodermis. You don't want him zooming off ahead of your army.
In the article it mentions that C'tan specifically do not benefit from Look out Sir.
Selfcontrol wrote:He fully deserves to be that expensive. Because of its price, he is (probably) not auto-include and rightfully so.
Strongly disagree but we shall see, I guess
2020/10/03 17:05:43
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Fluffwise yes - although there are questions of how *elite* they meaningfully are, and flayer kingdoms have been a common Necron archetype more or less since the 5th edition retcon. It feels historically they've always been elite just because they get deep strike, which GW don't want on what amounts to an "assault warrior" having.
All in all, I don't think this will effect things very much, but it just seems a bit mean given how far and wide Core seems to go in the Marines book. Hard to see how giving them say My Will Be Done would break the game.
eliteness or not doesn't seem to factor into what is core. Again, marines have almost every infantry and dreadnought model acting as core, including all their incredibly bloated non character elite slot infantry and dreadnoughts.
2020/10/03 17:07:24
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Goonhammer specified deceiver to have 3 att, and nightbringer have one more. straight ignore inv is good, but I think if you're fighting with a c'tan you're spending entropic strike.
He's definitely [b]very[b/] good, but I feel like OneWing is maybe a little excited about him. 350 points is a fair price.
Hmm, actually, Living metal + necrodermis + powers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, will be interesting to see lists incorporating him, or any other c'tan, and seeing how the meta adjusts to deal with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. He has 6 attacks. Yeah, this boy looking nice.
Maybe time to break out the 5 immortals nightbringer I own from when I started...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 18:07:28
Goonhammer specified deceiver to have 3 att, and nightbringer have one more. straight ignore inv is good, but I think if you're fighting with a c'tan you're spending entropic strike.
He's definitely [b]very[b/] good, but I feel like OneWing is maybe a little excited about him. 350 points is a fair price.
Hmm, actually, Living metal + necrodermis + powers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, will be interesting to see lists incorporating him, or any other c'tan, and seeing how the meta adjusts to deal with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. He has 6 attacks. Yeah, this boy looking nice.
Maybe time to break out the 5 immortals nightbringer I own from when I started...
The Nightbringer doens't need entropic strike for his heavy swing. He ignores invulns and damage reduction by default on that.
Goonhammer specified deceiver to have 3 att, and nightbringer have one more. straight ignore inv is good, but I think if you're fighting with a c'tan you're spending entropic strike.
He's definitely [b]very[b/] good, but I feel like OneWing is maybe a little excited about him. 350 points is a fair price.
Hmm, actually, Living metal + necrodermis + powers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, will be interesting to see lists incorporating him, or any other c'tan, and seeing how the meta adjusts to deal with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. He has 6 attacks. Yeah, this boy looking nice.
Maybe time to break out the 5 immortals nightbringer I own from when I started...
He also ignors FNP and his own damage limiting abilities, which makes him key even in the ork matchup where he'd otherwise struggle a bit to clear 30 boyz for an effective cost. But he's able to 1 round ghaz, which is a huge tool in the ork playbook.
He also one rounds the demon primarchs, which is very strong. Essentially he takes out units that aren't normally killable by the enemy very cost effectively.
That said, I am being a bit facetious about the eradicators. He's better than a hypothetical 9 man squad for his points, but 3 by 3 eradicators have board flexibility he lacks and so, while he can kil the handful of models they can't, they don't suffer the same overkill limit he does. Though they are even worser against hordes and, like, harlies. The nightbringer absolutely mercs harlies and still can output enough attacks against a horde to clear them, just not with great points efficiency.
2020/10/03 18:18:13
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
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