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2020/10/03 18:25:01
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
I really want to run a Destroyer Lord (either Skorpekh or Lokhust) as a beatstick but it doesn't seem very viable unless you run it with a unit of melee Destroyers, which I'm not sure about since saving points is the aim of the game if our big new toys are this expensive. I wish they could buff non Destroyer units.
2020/10/03 18:27:42
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Also, has anyone managed to find any pictures of the datasheets or this all second hand knowledge?
Summaries mostly, a few images.
Standard readthrough here (well, standard for a _2 hour_ readthrough, so fair warning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obzhpIGQRyM Rules start about 7:30 or so
Datasheets start at 1:23:30 (yes, almost an hour and a half in), sadly and bizarrely he starts skipping through them and doesn't do a thorough look like everything else in the book.
And oh for... gaah.
The books are a different size. Slightly longer spine-to-edge, and slightly taller. May not fit on the same shelves.
Books do have color coded tabs, but they've reordered a lot of stuff. Dynasties, Strats, traits, rules, etc are before the unit roster now.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/10/03 19:03:35
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 18:28:37
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
I really want to run a Destroyer Lord (either Skorpekh or Lokhust) as a beatstick but it doesn't seem very viable unless you run it with a unit of melee Destroyers, which I'm not sure about since saving points is the aim of the game if our big new toys are this expensive. I wish they could buff non Destroyer units.
Yeah, I really don't get some of these nerfs.
I'm also irritated that the Staff of Light stayed at D1 and the Warscythe at D2. Why do our weapons have to be such utter garbage? These stats were poor even in the index era, but now SMs are running around with weapons with D3 or even D4.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/10/03 18:56:48
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
I really want to run a Destroyer Lord (either Skorpekh or Lokhust) as a beatstick but it doesn't seem very viable unless you run it with a unit of melee Destroyers, which I'm not sure about since saving points is the aim of the game if our big new toys are this expensive. I wish they could buff non Destroyer units.
Yeah, I really don't get some of these nerfs.
I'm also irritated that the Staff of Light stayed at D1 and the Warscythe at D2. Why do our weapons have to be such utter garbage? These stats were poor even in the index era, but now SMs are running around with weapons with D3 or even D4.
100% it's very frustrating. I was secretly hoping to see Warscythe go to D3 and Voidreaper D4, very much in line with Marines. Oh well.....
I'm still waiting on the Lychguard datasheet to see if they can mix and match their weapons but I'm not hopeful
2020/10/03 18:58:36
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
Kind of? It doesn't wound on 2+ against all non-vehicles (unless they're T3) but it now has 'rules that ignore wounds cannot be used' (so no FNP or the like).
That's pretty huge.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 19:00:37
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
Kind of? It doesn't wound on 2+ against all non-vehicles (unless they're T3) but it now has 'rules that ignore wounds cannot be used' (so no FNP or the like).
That's pretty huge.
Wounding everything that bleeds on a 2+ was a really big deal though. It was the reason Destroyer Lords were good beatsticks vs big things. I know it has a new rule but just isn't as good
2020/10/03 19:30:35
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Got curious on nightbringer's actual chance of killing 4W character with his MW generator. Article was bit off with it's 50% claim. More accurate is 37% chance to oneshot 4W model(assuming no FNP). 23% for 5W. 12% for 6W.
Nasty enough as it is though.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/10/03 21:42:06
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
To the surprise of no one, Marines get stuff like Dreadnoughts as core, whilst our Destroyers - which have been in Necrons since their very first appearance - clearly aren't core at all.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/10/03 22:00:33
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
Which in a way is a good thing, it gives different units different up and downsides to them. The other extreme is AoS where there's only four unit blocks and broadly speaking for most of them all they are is a unit limit mechanic (eg you can only take X number of leaders/artillery and monsters)
Overread wrote: Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
An how convenient that almost every non-vehicle Marine unit is core, whilst Necrons get barely any.
But I see we're still praising GW for this sort of gak, so I hold no hope of them changing.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/10/03 22:04:21
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
From Goonhammer it would only be Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2020/10/03 22:20:24
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 22:20:52
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 22:25:10
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Overread wrote: Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
An how convenient that almost every non-vehicle Marine unit is core, whilst Necrons get barely any.
But I see we're still praising GW for this sort of gak, so I hold no hope of them changing.
Yes but Necrons aren't Marines. You can't just cherry pick "core" as one metric to compare them because it is bound to fail. Some armies will have more core and some will have less. What's important isn't the amount or lack of core, but how the whole army balances and adds up. Necrons just might not need so many core options to make the army work.
Overread wrote: Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
Which in a way is a good thing, it gives different units different up and downsides to them. The other extreme is AoS where there's only four unit blocks and broadly speaking for most of them all they are is a unit limit mechanic (eg you can only take X number of leaders/artillery and monsters)
It would be a good thing if they had been a bit more judicious with core in SM. Necrons get a whole cross section of units with support characters breaking down into different sections of the army. Spaces marine characters apply to everyone in army except vehicles. Maybe they could have taken the same idea and made certain characters give bonuses to units instead of the easy way out. I mean it'd give a point for the 5 different primaris captain datasheets they keep putting out other than their slavish devotion of forcing you to play models exactly how they are in a kit, no conversions allowed.
It makes me worry about what they are going to do with core as other armies go forward. Will they take the standard space marine everyone is core? Or are they giving future armies the same diversity of keywords and supporting characters like they did the necrons?
It almost feels like GW thinks marine players are too dumb to manage their army if they separated specialist units out with their own supporting characters too much, so everything gets all the bonuses except tanks. And centurions. I think the current game writers feel like centurions were a mistake XD.
2020/10/03 22:30:47
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead.
@stratigo, for marines I think they're going off of training, where the tactical squad is the end result of marine training before you get into veterans and promotions. Fluffwise marines progress from scout->assault->devastator->tactical. If assault marines get core, everything past that level of training should be core, because they're not going to 'forget' how to obey orders from their captain.
For necrons, its a little different, since canonically destroyers (and flayed ones) are mad/defective minds that DO ignore orders to pursue their bloodletting/destruction of all life goals. And Canopteks are purely mechanical servitors. So that's the kind of criteria they're working with for these two. We'll see how it turns out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 22:40:46
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 22:33:51
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2020/10/03 22:36:55
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead
So how is that different from using your own colour scheme and say they are mephir/whatever? Ie is the royal vassal good for anything or is it just nerf?
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/10/03 22:38:21
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
OK? But in the unit itself, and in the strats section, they say it is. And in the video you can see the word Core on the actual page of the Codex.
So... they forgot in the first section. They're fans doing a review, not Word of God.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/03 22:39:36
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead
So how is that different from using your own colour scheme and say they are mephir/whatever? Ie is the royal vassal good for anything or is it just nerf?
It's not different. Royal Vassal is GW's term for allowing people to do so officially.
2020/10/03 23:06:35
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead
So how is that different from using your own colour scheme and say they are mephir/whatever? Ie is the royal vassal good for anything or is it just nerf?
It's not different. Royal Vassal is GW's term for allowing people to do so officially.
it's just like the inheritors of the primarch trait, largely pointless sure but good to have.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/10/03 23:28:32
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
OK? But in the unit itself, and in the strats section, they say it is. And in the video you can see the word Core on the actual page of the Codex. So... they forgot in the first section. They're fans doing a review, not Word of God.
Yet you're using a different part of the same article as 'Word of God'. Either section had an equal chance of being wrong so why even bring up the second section? Basically your post should have been something like this...
... because the rules in the codex are what matter. When it comes to Goonhammer's article we might as well have flipped a coin to decide which was correct in the absence of being able to see the actual rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/03 23:31:47
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2020/10/03 23:52:12
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
OK? But in the unit itself, and in the strats section, they say it is. And in the video you can see the word Core on the actual page of the Codex.
So... they forgot in the first section. They're fans doing a review, not Word of God.
Yet you're using a different part of the same article as 'Word of God'. Either section had an equal chance of being wrong so why even bring up the second section? Basically your post should have been something like this...
... because the rules in the codex are what matter. When it comes to Goonhammer's article we might as well have flipped a coin to decide which was correct in the absence of being able to see the actual rules.
No, I was providing evidence, from multiple sources, not claiming something solely based on a _lack_ of mention in one place.
They're Core. Arguing about it is pointless
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/04 00:06:13
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
