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 Insectum7 wrote:
Can someone give me a rundown on how the Monolith turned out? I'm real.curious.

It's strong, I mean if it had been kept in heavy support or if you could take a single LOW in a battalion I'd argue it was pretty damned nice. but now... it's expensive AND costs you CPs.. not sure it's worth it.

I'm unsure as to why Games Workshop has decided that, post-2011, the Monolith isn't something people are supposed to actually use

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'm unsure as to why Games Workshop has decided that, post-2011, the Monolith isn't something people are supposed to actually use

It's really bizarre. They even removed FLY, which just doesn't work a model that size with the Terrain Density we are seeing today.

380 points for the only loadout worth considering, T8 24W 2+ save, BS3 degrading to 5, 4 death rays that are each S9 -3AP 3+D3 damage, one big gun that's D6 shots S12 -3 3 flat blast, and an auto-hitting S8 AP 3 3 damage melee weapon (6/d6/d3 attacks depending on how degraded). Lets you summon in a <CORE> if it didn't move, can deep strike. No invuln.

It's not terrible, but in a world with eradicators, I don't see how it ever sees play, even if it wasn't a LoW. No quantum shielding and no ability to hide behind obscuring = no thanks IMO.

Oh and it doesn't even have <FLY> any more and moves only 8/6/4, so good luck actually moving it at all on a table with decent terrain. LOL.

yukishiro1 wrote:
380 points for the only loadout worth considering, T8 24W 2+ save, BS3 degrading to 5, 4 death rays that are each S9 -3AP 3+D3 damage, one big gun that's D6 shots S12 -3 3 flat blast, and an auto-hitting S8 AP 3 3 damage melee weapon (6/d6/d3 attacks depending on how degraded). Lets you summon in a <CORE> if it didn't move, can deep strike. No invuln.

It's not terrible, but in a world with eradicators, I don't see how it ever sees play, even if it wasn't a LoW. No quantum shielding and no ability to hide behind obscuring = no thanks IMO.

Oh and it doesn't even have <FLY> any more and moves only 8/6/4, so good luck actually moving it at all on a table with decent terrain. LOL.

I personally think the Flux Arcs are better, 20pts less for 12 or 24 S5 Ap2 D1 damage shots will mulch chaff allowing your other units (or the monolith if you're feeling cheeky) to charge something. But the Death Rays are the better choice if you want it to just kill larger things

I agree that, generally, the monolith is outpaced by other units for it's cost.

But if you build your list around 2 or 3 of them, they can be utterly horrifying.

The problem with building a list with any Monoliths, much less multiple ones, is that no table I’ve played on in the last two years (which is basically only 16 months due to COVID, would have allowed it to move in any sort of tactical way without fly.

This is of course regarding the new ones, which although amazing sculpts, are infuriatingly priced.

caladancid wrote:
The problem with building a list with any Monoliths, much less multiple ones, is that no table I’ve played on in the last two years (which is basically only 16 months due to COVID, would have allowed it to move in any sort of tactical way without fly.

This is of course regarding the new ones, which although amazing sculpts, are infuriatingly priced.

I keep forgetting that they lost FLY, which is a massive nerf.

Although it would have been hysterical to watch it eat flyers

I'm confident there is at least one way to run a monolith (Maybe multiple) in a competent form.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sorry to interrupt this discussion on Space Marine chapter organization and the tabletop representation thereof, but are the Cron units going on preorder next worth getting?

Look wise yes, in game only void dragon

I think, it's too early to tell mind you, GW is going to be removing fly from all hover tanks.

Not all.

 Xenomancers wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think skorpekhs are quite a solid unit, mainly due to the -1 to wound strat. They aren't blade-guard level broken, but very little is (thankfully). They're right about where units should be.

The best thing about the Necron book IMO is that there are a ton of viable things in it, but not a single thing in the whole book that screams out as being obviously broken. It's just too bad they were unable to deliver the same kind of product in the Space Marine codex.

Lets get real here. The issue with scorpecks is they are slow and don't have a gun or an invune save = they are garabge.
Wraiths actually have both. While they might not hit as hard - it doesn't matter because they live more than twice as long - plus they can fall back and charge.

In my book, scorpekhs are out for exactly these reasons.
I prefer Wraiths all the way.

Removing Fly from the Primaris vehicles actually makes complete sense because they are not capable of flight whatsoever. They can't vault over buildings or bridge gigantic chasms. They basically crush the ground 1 metre beneath them and that's about all they can manage.

All other Necron vehicles kept Fly and when you look at other Xenos armies vehicles, they are all true anti-grav technology and capable of proper flight within the lore. Falcon-chassis vehicles are described as being able to fly and frequently engage enemy aircraft, Devilfish and their variants drop out of Manta dropships and Drukhari are nuff' said.

Also anyone who thinks Skorpekhs are garbage should try using them sometime. The -1 to wound strat really does make the unit viable and actually one of the best units in the Codex.

I feel Wraiths are kind of let down by their 4+ WS.
And there is no easy way to buff it.

Wraith had 3 attacks hitting on 3s before, thats 2 hits, now they have 4 attacks, hitting on 4s, thats 2 hits, the same as before. And Monolith still suck. GW has the ridiculous ability to create great looking models, and the give them crap rules.

I gotta be honest, given the rest of our stuff didnt loose it, I feel the Monolith losing fly was actually an error and will be errata'd on release

epronovost wrote:
About CORE keyword, wouldn't the broad range of CORE units be accounted in the price of the buffer instead of the recipient of the buff? I would personnaly do it this way. You don't price a unit in function of a potential buff it might receive from an outside source. It's simpler to price the source of the buff in question. How does Space Marines HQ compare to the Necron's one in terms of price and buffing capabilities?

If the buff is fairly specific and targeted, like the Technomancer, it's fair to include the price of the buff in the buffing model. When it's something like SM <CORE>, which applies to almost every non-vehicle, non-character model, you should be expecting those units to be buffed pretty consistently, especially when those buffs are auras that affect every unit, as is the case with SM. Therefore you should cost those <CORE> units higher because of the vastly increased likelihood of them receiving one or more buffs. Sadly, not only did the SM Codex hand out <CORE> to pretty much everyone for no good reason, it also didn't account for that in the cost.

As far as the Monolith and Skorpekhs go, I think the former is bad almost entirely because it's a LoW. In isolation it's actually not terrible but the cost of including one is too high, I think. It also melts against some of the OP anti-tank that exists right now, so that isn't great. Skorpekhs are fine, I think. You can give them the 5++ in the first turn after starting them hidden and they have a decent chance of threatening a worthwhile charge in the second turn. They're a unit with definite strengths and weaknesses but I think they can find a place in some lists. I think Praetorians and Lychguard may turn out to be better CC options than them though.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'm unsure as to why Games Workshop has decided that, post-2011, the Monolith isn't something people are supposed to actually use

The cynic in me suspects that the new GW staff have vietnam flashbacks of how the monolith used to be in 3rd ed, and so try their damnedest to make it unusable.
It would also explain why necrons seem to get worse stuff compared to marines, and why destroyers now can't have nice things.

I think the Monolith lost fly primarily so it couldnt pac-man aircraft. Needs to get some sort of errata to help it navigate, because the LoW categorization, price hike, point cost, dollar cost, AND awkward movement is just too much to bear.

I dont see its sales being too stellar without some wiggle room on all that.

Maybe GW needs to create a "hover" keyword, that is sort of "half fly but not quite"

What's people's take on lokhust destroyers now? I feel they are still viable despite the slight nerf.

TrueSlaya wrote:
What's people's take on lokhust destroyers now? I feel they are still viable despite the slight nerf.

They are still good damage dealers, but the move to Heavy Support makes them a harder choice to pick because there are so many Heavy Support options and you have few slots, and they are a lot less resilient now due to the change to RP and lack of Rites of Reanimation.

I think they have living metal, so you can probably keep them alive with the canoptek cloak, but that doesn't really help models that have already been killed or increase their RP chances.

Also pretty disappointed they didnt give the Obelisk some form of crazy melee attack like the Monolith, to represent its gravity powers. Or another always attacks last aura.

The bonus from sitting still going to 24 str8 d2 shots is nice... but still just not enough to justify a LoW or its point cost


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

TrueSlaya wrote:
What's people's take on lokhust destroyers now? I feel they are still viable despite the slight nerf.

They are still good damage dealers, but the move to Heavy Support makes them a harder choice to pick because there are so many Heavy Support options and you have few slots, and they are a lot less resilient now due to the change to RP and lack of Rites of Reanimation.

I think they have living metal, so you can probably keep them alive with the canoptek cloak, but that doesn't really help models that have already been killed or increase their RP chances.

Absoloutely agree. The cryptek arcana that allows a single non-core reanimation should have at least been a once per turn. Its not hard to kill more than one destroyer per turn.

Also, its possible to boost Immortal/Tomb Blade blasters to either ap -3 in Mephrit or Str6 with Isolationist Awakening, making them quite close to Lokhust hitting power

 Ordana wrote:

 Pael wrote:
What makes skorpekhs so bad? They seem pretty solid to me. Good support for non melee units

They are a close combat unit with moderate speed and no invul that have to walk across the board?

At what point in the last 2 editions have those ever been good?

Excactly my point. Maybe if that is your only option you try to make it work. Or load the table with them and maybe it can work if they do enough damage efficently but Crons have Wraiths which are very comparable but the wraith covers both weakness. Has a good Invune. Much faster. Moves through anything.


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 Insectum7 wrote:
Can someone give me a rundown on how the Monolith turned out? I'm real.curious.

24 wounds T8 2+ save. Which is a big improvement.
Guns 4x str 9 ap -4 d3+3 damage guns 24"
Main gun is d6 str 10 ap-4 (I think It could be 3) d6 damage 36" range.
In melee it has 6 auto hit attacks at str 8 ap-3 flat 3 damage.

If stationary it can bring a core unit from reserve to it.
For stratagem you can bring a core unit from reserve even if you moved.
For a stratagem you can bring a core unit from the table to it.

When are the FW necron models getting updates? I want to know how my tesseract ark and adorable tomb stalker made out.

TrueSlaya wrote:
What's people's take on lokhust destroyers now? I feel they are still viable despite the slight nerf.

You gotta take max units of them. Hit them with chornomancer 5++. Their biggest nerf is they cant take MWBD. Better off taking DDA/DoomStalker/Night Scythes for damage dealing IMO.

Is MWBD Core only?

I'm assuming so, because god forbid our tanks and heavy weapons are accurate.

Normal Lokhusts are in the trash as far as I'm concerned. They got strictly worse for a multitude of reasons but are still 55 ppm which even before the Codex was far too many points. A strength 6 Damage D3 weapon just isn't good enough for that cost.

My continued advice would be to not sleep on Skorpekhs. They've been the star unit for me in my 2 games with the Dex so far. They absolutely blend Marines into paste even without buffs and the -1 to wound strat is incredibly strong. If you're playing with proper Terrain density you should have no issues hiding them and this is 9th edition: a 8" move combat unit works perfectly fine since BOTH armies are barrelling towards the middle of the board to take and contest objectives.

 IHateNids wrote:
Is MWBD Core only?

I'm assuming so, because god forbid our tanks and heavy weapons are accurate.

Yes indeed. Core only.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
Is MWBD Core only?

I'm assuming so, because god forbid our tanks and heavy weapons are accurate.

Yes indeed. Core only.

Figures

I mean, I guess we havent shifted in relative power as far as that was concerned,if anything slightly improved given that Executioners dont reroll everything

But hey, I'm still mildly miffed.....

 p5freak wrote:
Wraith had 3 attacks hitting on 3s before, thats 2 hits, now they have 4 attacks, hitting on 4s, thats 2 hits, the same as before. And Monolith still suck. GW has the ridiculous ability to create great looking models, and the give them crap rules.

Except when GW makes a new model with good rules, then GW always uses rules to push you to buy the new models :^)