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Siegfriedfr wrote:
Primaris with sword and shield kinda makes grey knights uniqueness ... not so unique.
Makes me believe a grey knight redesign is not about to happen anytime soon.

Also in general Primaris are basically getting everything every other army has and then some. Meanwhile, said other armies are stuck in their "specialty".

I had to do a double-take to make sure you weren't Karol! [no offense intended to you or Karol]


I don't like the new sword & board space marines; they're probably my least favorite of the new SM models previewed. Too much glitz. Nothing wrong with decorative fetishes, but like, the whole baroque gold and eagle stuff is really ultramarine/black templars "knights-in-space"-ey. I really wish they had done them plain with optional decoration so that they could be varied to have any chapters aesthetic rather than UM or BT.


On the other hand, the buggy is growing on me. This guy is looking at a fairly decent weight of anti-infantry firepower from the onslaught gun and twin bolt rifles; so if he's a sub-10-wound platform in the 75 point range [which seems reasonable given how dinky he is and the fact that his alternate weapon is a single multimelta], then he's a good vehicular alternative to dreadnoughts. If only he could take a twin multimelta or other twin light AT weapon, I'd be really keen on having him in my army.

I'm liking every model presented so far. Finally primaris melee, needed it for my Primaris Chapter organization.

I even like the blocky quad bike. That thing is so wrong on many levels, but I can't stop wanting it.

I think the melee Primaris are the only Marines I want from the this release - especially the sword and board ones.

Siegfriedfr wrote:

Also in general Primaris are basically getting everything every other army has and then some. Meanwhile, said other armies are stuck in their "specialty".

Did you miss the bit where they're space marines? Being better than everyone else at everything is what the army exists to do. This didn't used to be the case historically in 40k, but it's definitely the case now and has been for a number of years. Even when they were bad at the beginning of 8th, it wasn't because they were bad in the abstract, it's because they weren't points efficient. They were still better than everyone else at more or less everything on a model for model basis.

It's a weird direction to take 40k from a design standpoint, but it's very established at this point.

I've never had an issue with marine stuff being more blocky. The Rhino is based on the real-life M113 which is basically a wedge on tracks, so no problem for me there. The "flying dumpster" that is the Stormraven also works for me. It maintains that brutal "Marine Aesthetic", but also actually does look like it can fly (or at least close enough that I can suspend disbelief). That new ATV? No. Not working for me. It looks "blocky" for no real reason. Like it was designed by someone who has seen marine stuff before but who didn't actually understand the design language.

Mechanically, most of the stuff GW designs wouldn't actually work, but they at least make it look like it would. This thing doesn't. At all. What's the point of armoring up all the sides if you're gonna leave the front axle almost completely uncovered? And look at how the armor around the front wheel hubs is set up - it would very clearly prevent that thing from having any kind of a use-able turning radius. It reminds of what would happen if a baggage car from the airport had a kid with a Power Wheels toy from the 80s. It just feels so half finished and not at all thought out. It's an atv - it should look fast and capable of handling all terrain. "All Terrain" is especially a big deal - it's in the name ... Look at the GSC ATV - awesome. That thing rocks. The marine one looks like it would be great. On a perfectly paved road with no turns, elevation changes or potholes, and provided you weren't in a hurry to get anywhere. I don't usually have strong reactions to models, but I feel like that one just fails on every level for me.

The other Primaris stuff looks cool enough. Like someone else in the thread mentioned, I prefer the more sleek and "plain looking" Primaris stuff as I think it's a interesting contrast to my traditional marines, but I'm glad they decked these out for anyone who wants Primaris but likes the "old-school" Gothic aesthetic.

Loving the Necron stuff! It has me thinking about dusting off my 3rd ed 'Crons!

Siegfriedfr wrote:Primaris with sword and shield kinda makes grey knights uniqueness ... not so unique.

What about them is something that we don't see already in the SM lineup?

The sword and shield? Only one Grey Knight has a storm shield.
The "knightly" helm is already seen on things like the Company Champion, Chapter Champion, Black Templars, and Ultramarine upgrades.
Plenty of other Primaris Marines have the mini-shield, and the ornateness is barely more than what the Sternguard Vets have.

What's being taken away from the GK?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Poor Techmarines must be the most over-worked brothers in the Chapter
- Repair vehicles
- Accompany Command Squads
- Crew Land Raiders
- Command tank squadrons
- Fly aircraft
- Man Thunderfire Cannons
- Sit on turrets

Those last two are their days off.

Tycho wrote:
I've never had an issue with marine stuff being more blocky. The Rhino is based on the real-life M113 which is basically a wedge on tracks, so no problem for me there. The "flying dumpster" that is the Stormraven also works for me. It maintains that brutal "Marine Aesthetic", but also actually does look like it can fly (or at least close enough that I can suspend disbelief). That new ATV? No. Not working for me. It looks "blocky" for no real reason. Like it was designed by someone who has seen marine stuff before but who didn't actually understand the design language.

Mechanically, most of the stuff GW designs wouldn't actually work, but they at least make it look like it would. This thing doesn't. At all. What's the point of armoring up all the sides if you're gonna leave the front axle almost completely uncovered? And look at how the armor around the front wheel hubs is set up - it would very clearly prevent that thing from having any kind of a use-able turning radius. It reminds of what would happen if a baggage car from the airport had a kid with a Power Wheels toy from the 80s. It just feels so half finished and not at all thought out. It's an atv - it should look fast and capable of handling all terrain. "All Terrain" is especially a big deal - it's in the name ... Look at the GSC ATV - awesome. That thing rocks. The marine one looks like it would be great. On a perfectly paved road with no turns, elevation changes or potholes, and provided you weren't in a hurry to get anywhere. I don't usually have strong reactions to models, but I feel like that one just fails on every level for me.

The other Primaris stuff looks cool enough. Like someone else in the thread mentioned, I prefer the more sleek and "plain looking" Primaris stuff as I think it's a interesting contrast to my traditional marines, but I'm glad they decked these out for anyone who wants Primaris but likes the "old-school" Gothic aesthetic.

Loving the Necron stuff! It has me thinking about dusting off my 3rd ed 'Crons!

I don't think the "old school" marines have much of a "deck out gothic aesthetic". It's largely as new as the new tacti-cool aesthetic outside of chapter specific models.

Does a Predator or Vindicator or old school Tactical/Devastator or etc. have a "decked out gothic aesthetic?" Like, that aesthetic is, I think, very chapter-specific to the Black Templars and Ultramarines.

Sisters of Battle have a "decked out gothic aesthetic" [though in the past, all those parts were largely actually optional, and my tanks don't have the decorative bits]. Oldmarines are very plain out of the box, really just like the Intercessors.

The glitzy crap on the sword veterans is really intrusive in a way that the tacticool stuff on the Vanguards wasn't. Like, you can easily still deck up the Vanguards with wolf-pelts and beardyness for the Space Wolves [which I did], but I have no idea what I'm going to do with these guys. They look really Ultramarine no matter how I try to imagine them.

yukishiro1 wrote:

Siegfriedfr wrote:

Also in general Primaris are basically getting everything every other army has and then some. Meanwhile, said other armies are stuck in their "specialty".

Did you miss the bit where they're space marines? Being better than everyone else at everything is what the army exists to do. This didn't used to be the case historically in 40k, but it's definitely the case now and has been for a number of years. Even when they were bad at the beginning of 8th, it wasn't because they were bad in the abstract, it's because they weren't points efficient. They were still better than everyone else at more or less everything on a model for model basis.

It's a weird direction to take 40k from a design standpoint, but it's very established at this point.

Well, not quite.

...the better-than-Swooping Hawks (still in finecast!) are Ad Mech!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Poor Techmarines must be the most over-worked brothers in the Chapter
- Repair vehicles
- Accompany Command Squads
- Crew Land Raiders
- Command tank squadrons
- Fly aircraft
- Man Thunderfire Cannons
- Sit on turrets

Those last two are their days off.

I mean, "upgunned rocking chair" encapsulates the latter pretty well...

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Siegfriedfr wrote:Primaris with sword and shield kinda makes grey knights uniqueness ... not so unique.

What about them is something that we don't see already in the SM lineup?

The sword and shield? Only one Grey Knight has a storm shield.
The "knightly" helm is already seen on things like the Company Champion, Chapter Champion, Black Templars, and Ultramarine upgrades.
Plenty of other Primaris Marines have the mini-shield, and the ornateness is barely more than what the Sternguard Vets have.

What's being taken away from the GK?

The whole paladin aesthetic (sword, shield, knighty look)

Also, ultramarines are (were?) roman-themed, not knight-themed.

As i said, Primaris are vampirizing other armies thematics slowly but surely.

I think the problem with the ATV is that it looks like it should have a front fender/grill/bumper array that wasn't installed to show off the driver's compartment.

Absolutely hate that buggy. Wish they had gone with a polaris slingshot as the base (basically 3 wheeled, whether a reversed trike or not).

Also, the turret strikes me as completely against Marine doctrine. Marines are supposed to be a mobile strike force, that was why the Thunderfire was on treads. Unless those are antigrav plates that allow it to move about, how is it even getting to the battlefield? Furthermore, looks like someone just took a glacis plate from a mark I rhino and glued on two spare lascannons left over from a LR crusader kit. It's a very boring model.

I've collected just about all the marine models - including primaris up until recently and the 9E models just don't tickle my fancy.

Really enjoying the new Primaris models. I remember all the ridicule when the Stormraven, Storm Talon, and Centurions were released. Dig up some of those old threads.

With even more models essentially replacing the existing Marine line, I wonder how much stuff will end up in Legends?

First who let the designers of minecraft work on the new primaris vehicles? ,The quad ATV will be good after I smash it with an ork truck. Once it is properly orkified it won't look like a brick anymore.

The only things I like about the new primaris are:
• Volkite brought back!!111
• Assault interecessors (snapfit doesnt bother me, easy enough to alter poses with minimal conversion work)

Lots of stuff to critique about
• Sword & shield marines? Y no jump packs then if its a melee unit?
• Never going to consider a model with its underwear hanging out like that
• Meltaguns? Srsly? Looks like modified bolt rifles to my eye, just with a cable and a melta muzzle attached
• Static gun emplacement? We already have FW tarantulas.. This just screams "Imperial Guard" and seems redundant. Y not plastic tarantula kit instead?
• MarineKart!! (Emperor hates your weak Hasbro Bro)

Yeah so I'll just keep waiting for the Assault Interecessors to be available separately, thanks. The rest can burn in a pile of prometheum for all I care.. Well the attack bikes are aight but I dont think bikes really suit marines, its among the only legacy thing I dislike about marines (the influence came from Judge Dredd no doubt, just compare the venerable blackshadow bike and the Dredd bikes)

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

ccs wrote:
I like the quad. I will definitely be getting one, probably two*
Does it look a bit absurd? Sure. Wich is why I like it. What's that? You say it lacks ground clearance, obvious suspension, etc etc etc? Yeah, and so do virtually all other Imperial vehicles RT - present & it doesn't bother me with them.... Oh no! The armor protection on the front is tiny, how will they ever survive?? Well I'll counter with "What about the SoB Penintant Engine?" That things got its nekkid prisoner pilot strapped across the front - at least this poor Primaris driver is still wearing his armor & enjoying that tiny T shape of armor.

*I definitely see a pair of Orks taking one of these things for a joy ride.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
[ If it was supposed to be a tacticool dune buggy, it should have looked like a tacticool dune buggy with like an open frame and roll cage.

Clearly it's not supposed to look like a tacticool dune buggy.

My first thought when I saw it was of the Tumbler from the Batman movies. (I wonder if it can be modded to launch a bike when destroyed?)
My second thought was that it'd be a great Ork vehicle.
My 3rd thought was "Well there goes $75".

Ah. I've never seen Batman, so I didn't immediately recognize it and just thought it looks like a jumble without real visual definition.

It's in the three starring Christian Bale. He drives about in a God-awful looking tank thing. Worst Batmobile ever dreamed up screenwise....
Fortunately in every other movie (except the 1940s seriels) he cruises about in assorted street rods (some cooler than others)

 Stormonu wrote:
Absolutely hate that buggy. Wish they had gone with a polaris slingshot as the base (basically 3 wheeled, whether a reversed trike or not).

Also, the turret strikes me as completely against Marine doctrine. Marines are supposed to be a mobile strike force, that was why the Thunderfire was on treads. Unless those are antigrav plates that allow it to move about, how is it even getting to the battlefield? Furthermore, looks like someone just took a glacis plate from a mark I rhino and glued on two spare lascannons left over from a LR crusader kit. It's a very boring model.

I've collected just about all the marine models - including primaris up until recently and the 9E models just don't tickle my fancy.

Marines do several things. If they were really that much about being a mobile strike force, Devastators and footslogging Dreads wouldn't be a thing. Remember: walking =/= mobile

The Primario Kart is so bad it's good. Not sure where they were trying to get but it's a hilarious nope for me.

Looking at the buggy again, I'm just trying to imagine the gunner shooting that straight forward...with the muzzle blast and flash all going off basically right in the drivers face, that thing is just really absurdly designed

The 88-esque visual of the techmarine gun is pretty cool, I'm actually a big fan of the model itself, but looking at it from a background perspective, immobile gun emplacements staffed by specialist command officers with seemingly no delivery/transport method really do not seem to fit the whole Space Marine...thing. I think a Techmarine commanding a unit of these things each with a servitor plugged into them with a logistics vehicle/transport of some sort would have been a much more interesting unit.

It really is in the "so bad it's good" category.

If it wasn't going to cost $80 or something absurd like that I'd consider buying one just to turn it into a funny piece of terrain or something.

Who do you think is winning the battle of the big guns? All of these kits will be available as push fit models – which is good because you’re going to want a lot of them. We can safely say these are hardly the last new kits you’ll see for both Primaris Space Marines and Necrons, including multipart kits, big centrepiece models, and more vehicles. Stay tuned for more information as soon as we have it

I wonder what else is coming?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Absolutely hate that buggy. Wish they had gone with a polaris slingshot as the base (basically 3 wheeled, whether a reversed trike or not).

Also, the turret strikes me as completely against Marine doctrine. Marines are supposed to be a mobile strike force, that was why the Thunderfire was on treads. Unless those are antigrav plates that allow it to move about, how is it even getting to the battlefield? Furthermore, looks like someone just took a glacis plate from a mark I rhino and glued on two spare lascannons left over from a LR crusader kit. It's a very boring model.

I've collected just about all the marine models - including primaris up until recently and the 9E models just don't tickle my fancy.

Marines do several things. If they were really that much about being a mobile strike force, Devastators and footslogging Dreads wouldn't be a thing. Remember: walking =/= mobile

They Drop Pod and airlift Dreds, and Devs do both of those plus use Rhinos, etc. Marines remain a mobile strike force with Devs and Dreads.

Dropping disposeable robotic turrets like the tarantula makes more sense than a guy in an immobile chair.

Foot slogging 100% = mobile when you're a fixed gun emplacement.

I do think there is a place for Marine fixed guns but they seem super niche and unlikely to be in most Tabletop scenarios. As a Predator's multiple guns are controlled by one Marine I'd expect the fixed guns to have 2-3 remote guns also being controlled by the Techmarine to be consistent.

I don't mind the idea of the tactical quad. I dislike the aesthetic of it. It looks like a cut down Rino, somehow. The bikes don't have much ground clearance, but neither did the old ones, nor did the attack bike I've just built. But I've always head cannoned the Primaris bikes as being active adaptive suspension bikes. It looks like they could be.

For some reason I'd much prefer a 1991 Gulf War Special Forces FAV Dune Buggy design. And will happily make my own if ever Primaris.

I just started an Ultramarines army, so I dont mind seeing them in all the art and boxes, but the only annoying trend I see lately are the bare headed Sergeants, with the teeny red rebreather grills. I'm a fan of Red Helmet bois, but every sergeant has forgotten his helmet!

And since I adhere to the Codex I gotta paint them red even though it just looks so off..

Brother gets promoted to Sergeant through numerous acts of heroism.

"Ok Sergeant! Heres your new red face mask! Dont lose it now! We had to custom order it in that color... And remember to wash your hands frequently."

Buggy looks bad, the rest is ok with the judicator just not being right I feel.
Designs are fairly average on the whole I think, too much trying to be cool and not really thinking each peace though enough.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Primaris with sword and shield kinda makes grey knights uniqueness ... not so unique.
Makes me believe a grey knight redesign is not about to happen anytime soon.

Also in general Primaris are basically getting everything every other army has and then some. Meanwhile, said other armies are stuck in their "specialty".

I had to do a double-take to make sure you weren't Karol! [no offense intended to you or Karol]

ccs wrote:

My second thought was that it'd be a great Ork vehicle.

More like a Tau vehicle than an ork one. My first though was that it'd be a great add for Tau armies as it looks more like an upgrade to the fish vehicles than a primarized land speeder/attack bike.

Oops

Where is the delete post option?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Tycho wrote:
I've never had an issue with marine stuff being more blocky. The Rhino is based on the real-life M113 which is basically a wedge on tracks, so no problem for me there. The "flying dumpster" that is the Stormraven also works for me. It maintains that brutal "Marine Aesthetic", but also actually does look like it can fly (or at least close enough that I can suspend disbelief). That new ATV? No. Not working for me. It looks "blocky" for no real reason. Like it was designed by someone who has seen marine stuff before but who didn't actually understand the design language.

Mechanically, most of the stuff GW designs wouldn't actually work, but they at least make it look like it would. This thing doesn't. At all. What's the point of armoring up all the sides if you're gonna leave the front axle almost completely uncovered? And look at how the armor around the front wheel hubs is set up - it would very clearly prevent that thing from having any kind of a use-able turning radius. It reminds of what would happen if a baggage car from the airport had a kid with a Power Wheels toy from the 80s. It just feels so half finished and not at all thought out. It's an atv - it should look fast and capable of handling all terrain. "All Terrain" is especially a big deal - it's in the name ... Look at the GSC ATV - awesome. That thing rocks. The marine one looks like it would be great. On a perfectly paved road with no turns, elevation changes or potholes, and provided you weren't in a hurry to get anywhere. I don't usually have strong reactions to models, but I feel like that one just fails on every level for me.

The other Primaris stuff looks cool enough. Like someone else in the thread mentioned, I prefer the more sleek and "plain looking" Primaris stuff as I think it's a interesting contrast to my traditional marines, but I'm glad they decked these out for anyone who wants Primaris but likes the "old-school" Gothic aesthetic.

Loving the Necron stuff! It has me thinking about dusting off my 3rd ed 'Crons!

I don't think the "old school" marines have much of a "deck out gothic aesthetic". It's largely as new as the new tacti-cool aesthetic outside of chapter specific models.

Does a Predator or Vindicator or old school Tactical/Devastator or etc. have a "decked out gothic aesthetic?" Like, that aesthetic is, I think, very chapter-specific to the Black Templars and Ultramarines.

Don't you mean "Black Templars and Dark Angels"?

I don't recall Ultras being traditionally gothic knights, as sombody else said, they always had a (subtle) Greco-Roman theme going on.

Bikes as combat vehicles is the most stupid thing ever, especially when the rider is a space marine wielding a sword...wtf...I know there are old models like this but in redoing them I figured theyd make them resonable, this is like a 5yo came up with it...