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Jarms48 wrote:
This brings me back. I'm tempted to try out a 5th edition game again.

Doesn't hurt to try, just find some likeminded players who enjoy one of the older editions and try it out. if nothing else you can always proxy whatever models you have.

This is a refreshing matchup you do not see to often-dark eldar VS tau.

The game
.2k points
.tau were using the 4th ed codex
.dark eldar were using the 5th ed codex with a double force org chart as he wanted to use all his talos engines
.objectives-table quarters

This game was something different all right. given most of the DE forces were calabite warriors in venoms you would figure all that tau S5 goodness would just wreck them, but you would be wrong. mostly because the tau play was having some of the worst dice roll i have ever seen. the tau trying to hold ground is not something they excel at. the DE player wrapped around them and pushed them back into the corner. even with the poor early shooting on the tau players part huge chunks of both armies were disappearing from the table.


Tie breaker wise the tau player was in the lead with first blood as both of them had line breaker and slay the warlord. what it came down to was actual table quarter points. If the game had ended on turn 6 the tau would have won via tie breaker, but it went to turn 7 and no matter where the tau moved 3 of the 4 table quarters would have been contested or countered giving the DE player a slim 1 point victory margin.

Funny thing i also noticed. out of all our players who play with us who had armies for our 5th ed game almost nobody had space marines with them even though close to 80% of players run space marines according to statistics.

In the store we had
.tau
.admech
.dark eldar
.nids
.imperial guard
. and one chaos marine player.


Now for some pics-

I take it that Broadside is a conversion?

Yes, it is. i do not remember what bits he used but he liked the old FW version but didn't want to pay FW prices back in the day, so he modified his own.

Ah, ok. Those look like the launchers from the Whirlwind on its shoulders.

Taro makes a great conversion kit for the current kit mini to make it look like the Old Skool Broadside:

Wow, that one is pretty....also TACTICAL ROCKS!

I have played a lot of 8th and 9th and while fun sometimes......I just do not like strategems the way they are implemented.

On paper it seems like a great way to shake up the whole "I go you go" format of 40k. But, hear me out, that wasn't a problem in previous editions really. You didn't need a "gotcha!" card to save you from a turn 1 board wipe.......because you didn't get turn 1 board wiped. The speed and range increases over the years have become quite frankly insane. The table is only 6x4, it really should not be like it is. Turn 1 charges are borderline unnacceptable if you ask me. And don't even get me started on the lethality of everything. Tau railguns anyone?

Also people say "you dont HAVE to learn every armies strategems" are just lying. What you think is a smart strategic play can be completely 180'd by a single strategem and it can cost you a unit or even the game.

Also, so many unit special rules and wargear have been removed from their statline and turned into a strategem. This is not very fun if you have more than 1 of any unit as only 1 unit can utilize its special 'thing' a phase, and it costs CP.

They made too many strategems, and their fix was just give everyone a crazy amount of CP. I honestly have no idea how they can fix this without a complete edition reset. Am I just crazy or does anyone else dislike this?

Well Don, if you go back to the very start of this topic, on page one. we make it quite clear how our group, and from the responses many others, feel about GW turning 40K from a strategy based Napoleonic wargame into a quasi collectable card game where everything is very sanitized and samey for the sake of tournament play balance.

We have in effect done a fan edition reset. every game system plays different so i have no problem with my 40K being a igougo system as i have plenty of other games i play with alternate play activation systems. keeping 40K what it was meant to be was very easy to do. GW made some great rules in the compatible editions (3rd-7th where the lore had been solidified by the end of 3rd) but they never put them all in the SAME edition. As the first page post pointed out we did not create any of our own rules in our FLGS group. we just put a few of the best rules for certain things into the edition that had the best overall core rule set. 3rd and 4th edition codexes/supplements have the best thematic rules for most armies with a few exceptions. It makes the armies feel like they are your dudes playing IN the 40K setting. This goes back to the attitude of the player base. for us the journey to the end of the game is why we play it, the silliness, the epic fights etc.. not the win/loss record.

If you have the right mindset the older editions of 40K are a fantastic game. if you were a tournament player it was a terrible game because it was not meant to be balanced. it was meant to be thematic.

Keep in mind all the people who wrote the lore and created the setting (as an over the top parody) as well as wrote all the thematic rules are gone from GW. retired, free lance, started their own game companies etc..

The people running things now do not even understand their own universe much less what the game is supposed to be. As such they have swung into full sanitized mirrored balanced tournament play as the main goal of the current system. with a power bump for each new release to push model sales.

I have been reading the thread and I do like the ideas here. The very nature of the game makes it almost impossible to balance for every scenario, so boiling it down to cater to tournament players seems like a fools errand. I do like being competitive and bringing strong lists sometimes, but the appeal to me was always the narrative of the army I built play out on the tabletop.

I can't deny my love for some of the things they have made over the years, particularly the Morkanaut and the Squigbuggy, lol, but there is so much book keeping and point tracking for a single game of 40k. The secondary objectives make every mission feel incredible samey as well.

I do have some old books and I might try to get my friends to play 3rd or something idk.

And not everyone has left GW. Part of the reason Age of Sigmar isnt in a sinking ship like 40k is Phil Kelly being in charge of it. That's a man that understands narrative.

Keep in mind there is a difference between competitive and tournament.

All war games by their very nature are competitive, but not all of them require a tournament mind set.

I have done games against many of the lists that were at the time considered the tournament power builds. the game mechanics (and adequate terrain) allowed me to use terrain and objectives to often times perform well against said lists as well as beat them. One of my fellow regular players back in 5th ed had the "dreaded" FW corsair army with hornets, warp hunters and such. It was a challenging list to fight and was always a good battle, but 90% of the time i would take him to a draw.

The great thing about the older editions is also the fact that most of the books are cheap and easy to find, and GW will never screw with them again.

Also if you take a look through the older editions there are actually quite a few different missions aside from the core ones (table quarters, d3+2 objectives, mysterious objectives, king of the hill objective, moveable objectives, deployment zone defend/capture objectives etc..) that can be the framework for normal games. the 4th ed rulebook has quite a few ideas in the combat patrol/kill team section that can be "enlarged" for full scale army battles.

I also like the fact that the previous editions have default alternate win conditions aside from the main objectives as well as the fact that the objectives are not scored until the end so you always have a reason to keep playing. it gives players the ability to squeak out a win at the end even if they are loosing the body count battle. this is especially true after 5th ed introduced random turn length games. that extra 6th or 7th turn has made many games come to a completely different outcome from where it was at, had it finished on turn 5.

With 9th i watched so many games where the game just ended on turn 3 because one player was just so far ahead on points there was no reason to keep playing.


I did not know Phil was still around, but i was never a big AOS or WHFB player so i have not given it much attention other than to enjoy the look of the nice model kits for the sky dwarves.

A little twist tonight. i broke out a model that hasn't seen the table since 5th ed-

Inquisitor lord Karamazov. i took him and an eversore assassin (3rd ed witch hunters) in my admech list as allies. (7th ed)

The admech army of cataphrons, , sicarian infiltrators, dune crawlers an assault drill and the allies above.




The dirty knife ears-



.The mission-defend/capture an objective in your enemy deployment zone
.points-2k

Eldar went first. the heavy weapon shooting against my vehicle was lacklust across the game, but those poison weapons really did a number on my breachers/destroyers. unfortunately my outflanking sicarians came in on the wrong end of the table from where i needed them. the game went a full 7 turns as the admech was slowly ground down. .

unfortunately the eversore died to a blaster on overwatch so he didnt do much, other than explode of course.

40K across the world-

Big thanks again to Mezmorki for his pro-hammer steam workshop module for tapletop simulator

a buddy i have gamed with for years from austrailia was always interested in 40K but was turned off by the cost (especially bad in australia)

thanks to TTS he got in his first game of 5th ed.

For his first army he went with blood angels

his first go was

.astorath
X2 death company squads
X2 terminator chaplains
X2 deathcompany dreads
X1 librarian dread
X2 land raider crusaders
X1 whirlwind

I put him up against my 4th ed nid army
X2 brood lord
X2 gene stealer broods
X2 leaping warrior broods
X2 carnifexes
X1 squad of 3 zoanathropes.

We had to sub in a few models we could not find the assets for (or we forgot to grab the correct ones)

But this is how the armies looked-







We did a very simple setup
dawn of war 12" deployment with kill points.





I flanked with the stealers and did some good damage. the brood lords manged to drop all of his dreads and a land raider. pver the course of the battle. on his side astorath was just a beast.

He managed to come out on top by a single kill.

We will see what he comes up with next time.

Awesome! Glad you tried out the TTS mod. I've been making tweaks and still need to update a few things on it.

Did you try using the terrain generation procedure or just randomly pull out things to try?

Also - you can hit F11 to hide to interface/UI so you can take screen shots without all that showing up Glad it worked for you!

I went through all the terrain and put it in another folder so i could build the table myself. i rather enjoy that part of the game.

I also see you grabbed the mars manufactorum mat for one of the options. i own that one in real life.

Next go around i think i shall put him up against my mechanicus......or perhaps iyanden eldar, who knows

It has been a while since we have gotten back to some classic 40K. classic battletech and warmachine has been dominating the games at the store of late.

One of our ORK players wanted to test out some of the old FW goodies with is 4th ed codex list so we did some proxying for his custom battle fortress and lifta wagon.

I am going off memory here as to his list but if i got it correct he had

.big mek w/mek tools
.warboss zahdsnark 'da rippa

.X2 squads of shoota boys
.X2 nob biker squads
.15 man strong mob of lootas
.custom battle fortress
.lifta wagon.

At his request for the lifta wagon i brought quite a few vehicles for him to toss around.

My list (salamanders 5th ed SM codex + FW badab war book)
.master of the forge with servitors
.brey'arth ashmantle in lucius drop pod
.tac squad in a las/plas razorback
.scout squad in a land speeder storm
.assault squad
.ironclad dreadnought
.deathstorm drop pod with assault cannons
.relic predator with melta cannon/heavy flamer sponsons (because i am a salamanders player )
.land raider achilles



The table was set up as a space marine outpost ala dawn of war thanks to some fine 3d printed terrain from war scenery.

We went with a center "king of the hill" objective and rolled a random table quarters deployment.

The game quickly devolved into a center of the table rolling melee with a squad of bikers mixing it up with the assault squad. then the squads of shoota boys and the ironclad joined into the frey.

He managed to score first blood by taking out the deathstorm and sent his warboss and other bikers after the tac marines. the shoota boys mopped up the last of the assault marines but got on the wrong end of the dread. turn 1 i disabled the lifta and his big mech spent most of the game getting it working again (more on that later).

The predator was kept out of the fight most of the game by being stunned and them immobilized (curse my 18" melta cannon range). brey'arth dropped in and took out the warboss and helped the tac marines finish off the nob bikers. the last turn ended up being turn 5 but we didn't know that at the time of course so he did his best to take my forces away from the objective. his loota (MVP for the game BTW) shot the land speeder off the objective and since the predator was already immobile he decided to toss the dread. i was already immobilized as well but it was sitting to close to the objective if the game had gone to turn 6. the lifta did a random toss and ended up pulling the dread directly towards the lifta wagon 13"s and also ripped off an arm.

Then the game ended with nobody holding the primary objective so going to tie breaker it also ended up being a tie first blood VS slay the warlord.

The ORKs had a good fight so it was a win for them in the end no matter what. and the looters were shiny as i mentioned earlier. in 5 turns only once did they get less than 3 shots per volley. (that's 45 per turn for those counting).

I'm hoping to see some more chaos on the table soon. the ork player has a thousand sons force he is having an urge to try out and our khorne player looks to be back to a somewhat regular schedule.


The pics-

Delpoyment-





The battle

My planned game against the orks didn't happen this weekend but i did get a small 800 pointish game in against dark angles fighting over a center objective.


My 2 favorite chapters fighting each other....what could be more fun.



i sent my scouts around the side to go after his gun line while i dropped brye'arth into the middle of the frey. he ended up getting immobilized and losing an arm, but he managed to thin out the enemy enough for the tactical squad move up and score the objective, the game ended on turn 5 with a random roll.

the forces

Dark angels



My salamanders successors



The battle

Damn that's a cool table.

i have better pictures of it up on my terrain topic. the Tau themed terrain mat if from frontline. i started gathering terrain for before i got into 3d printing. some of the buildings are from brigade models and the larger hard foam stuff is from the late antenocitis workshop. the newest additions are from sacrusmundus's 3d print files.

My jam is Warhammer 40000 2nd Edition (old Necromunda too) - Love the mayhem of the game, the models of the time are really great looking (not that I would stop anyone trying out 2nd ed with new models), you can have techmarines try to fix and fire a lascannon sponson on a tank mid game, weapons/tanks/large daemons feel like they are going to do what you expect and not be struggling with a few guardsmen ... oh also the Orks are amusing and colourful.

Did try out 3rd edition but it changed too many things so never really went beyond that edition. Couldn't get past grenades don't get thrown anymore, orks can't shoot properly, greater daemons can be killed by basic troops and a whole host of other streamlining that didn't seem right to me. Also more form a lack of time the armies of today seem to need hundreds of troops, just overkill to me.

Did try out 8th Edition Kill Team which was interesting but lacked something to my mind.


We play multiple boardgames and wargames so getting the old edition on the table is quite rare - setup and time to play is always a factor. On the odd occasion we have it has been fun, but I'm the only one actively painting up models etc so it's limited thing.

As for how to play it, we try to go with 1500 points. Keep the characters to sensible levels and have narrative take priority over the win. Also have a a short banlist on a few cheese wargear/weapon combinations, not that anyone has tried to do that the way we play.

My ork army that has been painted, amazing what a lockdown can do for getting things painted. Eldar, Nids and Chaos are in various stages of being painted, ragtag bunch of space marines and imperial guard exist in my collection but not really tried to put them together as a force.


Oh yeah 2nd Edition allowed Ogryns (Ogres) in an Ork army, fun times

DId some silly stuff tonight.

One of the guys got the heresy box and wanted to do a smallish 30K game. he is playing world eaters. since he didn't have a bunch of stuff he ran a couple characters, contemptor dread, spartan and some bolter squads. i proxied a bit but fortunately i have quite a few minis that are usable in 30K.

i ran a mortis dread, doredeo dread, cassian draco as my HQ a land raider achillies as well as a tactical fire support squad and an assault jump squad.

As it seemed accurate, we ran an assault objective to capture in my deployment zone. His overall lack of AT really showed, so he is working to get list laser destroyer put together for our next game. he was however winning the close combat side of the game.

What is that walker in the middle?

Looks like some other kits cut up and glued back together in the rough shape of a walker.
Some of it looks pretty Tau, but I'm trying to place the back. It looks familiar, but I can't name the kit.

Nuclear shrimp games (Greece)-


Part of their black earth line of 28MM minis

their site seems to be down but this old kickstarter page has a bunch of the minis



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/100165877/black-earth-heavy-metal

I played in 5th ed starting right before imperial guard got their codex and played for about a year or so (using card stock circles and squares heh). I picked the game back up a few months ago with TTS (and got really into customizing the 3d models).

I'd say I enjoyed 5th a lot more than 9th (even before the 5th ed gaurd codex came out). As an imperial guard player, I really miss my pie plates and scatter dice. I know the complaints against them, but there was something special about the tactileness (not to be confused with tacticalness) combined with the added chaos (with a little C ) of the scatter. I also miss the old moral rules where units would run away. Also the considerably lower complexity of the rules back then.

What I don't miss: having my tanks sit around useless for the entire match due to crew shaken lol.

All that said, I'm a sucker for the new shiney and I'm unenthused at the thought of "just playing 5th" forever. So instead I moan about it here

DeadliestIdiot wrote:
I played in 5th ed starting right before imperial guard got their codex and played for about a year or so (using card stock circles and squares heh). I picked the game back up a few months ago with TTS (and got really into customizing the 3d models).

I'd say I enjoyed 5th a lot more than 9th (even before the 5th ed gaurd codex came out). As an imperial guard player, I really miss my pie plates and scatter dice. I know the complaints against them, but there was something special about the tactileness (not to be confused with tacticalness) combined with the added chaos (with a little C ) of the scatter. I also miss the old moral rules where units would run away. Also the considerably lower complexity of the rules back then.

What I don't miss: having my tanks sit around useless for the entire match due to crew shaken lol.

All that said, I'm a sucker for the new shiney and I'm unenthused at the thought of "just playing 5th" forever. So instead I moan about it here

I stuck with 3rd and Guard are a decently rewarding army.

All that said, I'm a sucker for the new shiney and I'm unenthused at the thought of "just playing 5th" forever. So instead I moan about it here

That is true of any game, if you only play one system eventually you will burn out. i learned that lesson after building 7 different 40K armies. i was searching for variety. in the end playing different systems scratches that itch.

Currently i mostly play 40K in the 5th edition variety, however i also play warmachine, battletech, DUST 1947, BFG, and epic 40K on a pretty regular basis. since they are all very different rule sets i get my variety that way.

Depending on your local scene you can look to systems like those or infinity, bolt action, flames of war/team yankee, malafaux, kings of war etc....

Seriously fun game tonight

necrons VS salamanders/demon hunters 5th ed VS 5th ed/3rd ed codexes 2K points 5 objectives.

This is an infantry battle.

sure there were some vehicles, but i put out most of my infantry and he put out even more.

i had 46 bodies, 1 emplacement and 3 other vehicles on the table.



He had 69 bodies and 4 vehicles

The deployment looked like so-





The first couple turns we kind of plinked at each other only killing a couple guys each side.

By the end of turn 3 & 4 however i had neutered most of his heavy vehicle guns.





Then i managed to get into close combat. the immortals fighting the assault squad really didn't see much progress, the GKs however were doing a good bit of hurt...he just kept rolling fantastic on his "we'll be back" rolls.





I outflanked some scouts onto an objective, and he shot the tac squad off of one of mine, to break the tie he moved one of his tomb stalkers back to take a second open objective winning the game by a score of 1 to 2.

A quite enjoyable time-

Necrons were one of the stronger factions in 5e - I recall the local players win rate went significantly up with the new book, and his skill level went significantly down.

Surprised it wasn't a bloodbath with the doomsday arks throwing pieplates around while the barge and stalkers pushed up on the skimmers.

We were both having some bad scatters with the templates and/or good cover rolls. i only connected with the conversion beamer once. the only one hitting decently was the scout heavy bolter firing the submunition round. not that it mattered with the lord/rezorb in the squad getting them all back up on a 4+


The quad las vengeance battery was doing work for me. the first few turns it was hitting like a champ even with needing 5+ (twin linked) to hit. conversely his tesla weapons were doing work for him often giving him more hits than he had shots.

Also, it WAS a blood bath. i stated the battle with 46 bodies and 4 vehicles- i came away with 2 disabled land speeders (the other 2 he never shot at) and only 16 bodies.

He had 28 bodies and all his vehicles, but they all had taken some weapon destroyed damage

Sadly Matt Ward broke the necrons with that codex. The Grey knights was wasn't to far behind. While I didn't care much for the new necron background ( aka tomb kings in SPACEEEEEEE!!!!!! basically) a good friend of mine had a cron army. Once this book came out he started to stomp people especially my poor poor Sisters of battle who where still using their 3rd edition codex.

Looks like a fun game. I miss playing 5th edition. I had a SM army then I traded for a IG army which I loved until leafblower came along and nobody would play against guard even if you weren't running leafblower. I also had a Elysian army which was a blast as long as I could use my vultures and thunderbolts.

such good times playing playing games workshop stuff from 1990-95ish then I got back into it around 2006-7ish. I really miss epic though. it was the best game imho that GW ever made. Especially 2nd edition. I loved the company cards.

I loved reading the battle report. I wish more people did them but I understand it takes a lot of time, effort and pictures to make a really good one. A lot of people just don't have that time.