Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With GMan it is quite fine. +3 CP.

At the moment, as posted above, Deamons really suffer with lack of HQ slots. Only HQs and troops are really ever worth taking.

Other armies it means a nerf, TS/chaos, aldari, SWs, other SM builds. Too soon to say if this isgood or bad though.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Oh oh, and here's the best. Because the only (so far) way to play Magnus is to have him as a warlord, it means that half of the stuff in the PA update are invalid if you bring Magnus, because he's a named character and he can't take a Cult.

Fair point, but that's something that needed an errata anyway.

I get a ton more mileage out of Scarabs since PA. Based on the leaks it doesn't seem like they'll go up much.

Being able to reserve Magnus, Defilers, melee disc riders, spawn, and MVBs. Landraiders that can push with a little less concern about being swarmed.
Fiends that can move and shoot without penalty and shoot into combat.
Not needing to force battalions for CP.

A change to summoning would be welcome, too.

Now I can start with full CP, reserve Magnus for 3 CP, and avoid cultists unless I want a screen. There's a lot of wins to be had.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
With Thousand Sons, playing Magnus will make him the warlord which will invalidate half of the stuff in the PA update (because Magnus is named and can't have a Cult).

Your mistake here was thinking that anyone writing this rule remembered the PA 1KSons stuff. GW write rules in a vacuum. The person who wrote the Supreme Command stuff wouldn't have even considered this when doing so.

I mean, this is the same company that gave 1KSons 9 new sets of options, and then FAQ'd it to ensure that you can only ever use 1 of them at a time.

...and now it's use half of said 1 cult if you want to even field your big guy.

I am dissapoint.

Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.
And theres no way to make an Ynnari Wraithknight anymore.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I spammed HQs with my Nurgle Daemons, DP, GUO, Piper, Scrivener and usually 2-3 Herolds didn't fit into a batallion and these were also the main damage dealers in the army. So, this means I can use a batallion + supreme Command detachment and still have full CP, right? That's okay for me.

However your Primarch has to be your warlord. And this can be a deal breaker in many occasions.

He doesn't have a primarhc in that list.

This is what I am most afraid of - armies with Primarchs/big models will get a "free slot" for giggles, while armies without will just suffer for no reason.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I spammed HQs with my Nurgle Daemons, DP, GUO, Piper, Scrivener and usually 2-3 Herolds didn't fit into a batallion and these were also the main damage dealers in the army. So, this means I can use a batallion + supreme Command detachment and still have full CP, right? That's okay for me.

However your Primarch has to be your warlord. And this can be a deal breaker in many occasions.

Well, in this case I'm too much of a fluff player to care - I'd never even think about not taking the Primarch as the Warlord if I used it

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.
And theres no way to make an Ynnari Wraithknight anymore.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

What was your other detachment?

 Galas wrote:
Whats a Supreme Commander?

Units that say "Supreme Commander" on their datasheet. Commander Shadowsun for instance has it already as part of her PA update. Others will probably get FAQ'd in in the launch errata.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.
And theres no way to make an Ynnari Wraithknight anymore.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

What was your other detachment?

depends on the day but these were my usual detachments : CSM battalion/brigade, Tzeentch demons battalion, Slaanesh supreme command, Thousand sons supreme/battalion

The Slaanesh demons i own are litterally only : Syll'esske, The contorted epitome and an herald on foot.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I spammed HQs with my Nurgle Daemons, DP, GUO, Piper, Scrivener and usually 2-3 Herolds didn't fit into a batallion and these were also the main damage dealers in the army. So, this means I can use a batallion + supreme Command detachment and still have full CP, right? That's okay for me.

However your Primarch has to be your warlord. And this can be a deal breaker in many occasions.

He doesn't have a primarhc in that list.

This is what I am most afraid of - armies with Primarchs/big models will get a "free slot" for giggles, while armies without will just suffer for no reason.

It's not a free slot. It makes your big guy your warlord. Which means that 1. You're most likely giving away Slay the Warlord early. 2. You get locked out of a lot of options (specifically T.Sons lose 2/3 of their PA update if they want to even field Magnus.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I spammed HQs with my Nurgle Daemons, DP, GUO, Piper, Scrivener and usually 2-3 Herolds didn't fit into a batallion and these were also the main damage dealers in the army. So, this means I can use a batallion + supreme Command detachment and still have full CP, right? That's okay for me.

However your Primarch has to be your warlord. And this can be a deal breaker in many occasions.

He doesn't have a primarhc in that list.

This is what I am most afraid of - armies with Primarchs/big models will get a "free slot" for giggles, while armies without will just suffer for no reason.

Yeah. Remember when multiple detachments were going to have costs to encourage strategy and tactics?
Oh, sorry, no one mentioned refunds to get around the costs.

Its bizarre to watch a company introduce design principles via previews and invalidate them within days, before new edition even launches.

I still don't understand why this stops you from taking two Daemon Primarchs.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I still don't understand why this stops you from taking two Daemon Primarchs.

because people forget that you can run one in a superheavy aux detachment

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.
And theres no way to make an Ynnari Wraithknight anymore.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

What was your other detachment?

depends on the day but these were my usual detachments : CSM battalion/brigade, Tzeentch demons battalion, Slaanesh supreme command, Thousand sons supreme/battalion

The Slaanesh demons i own are litterally only : Syll'esske, The contorted epitome and an herald on foot.

Ah, gotcha. Yea that complicates it. It definitely looks like they want fewer HQs around.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I spammed HQs with my Nurgle Daemons, DP, GUO, Piper, Scrivener and usually 2-3 Herolds didn't fit into a batallion and these were also the main damage dealers in the army. So, this means I can use a batallion + supreme Command detachment and still have full CP, right? That's okay for me.

However your Primarch has to be your warlord. And this can be a deal breaker in many occasions.

He doesn't have a primarhc in that list.

This is what I am most afraid of - armies with Primarchs/big models will get a "free slot" for giggles, while armies without will just suffer for no reason.

It's not a free slot. It makes your big guy your warlord. Which means that 1. You're most likely giving away Slay the Warlord early. 2. You get locked out of a lot of options (specifically T.Sons lose 2/3 of their PA update if they want to even field Magnus.

It's a free slot though. Consider the following:

I fill my HQs with Keepers of Secrets. that's 3, if I bring a battalion. 5 max, if I bring a BDE.

A friend of mine wants Fulgrim, so fair enough, he has to bring one fewer keepe- oh wait, no, he doesn't, he just slaps Fulgrim down in this detachment and can bring the same number of keepers as me, points permitting.

Armies without primarchs/supreme commanders lose this slot because they lose the option to take this detachment.

topaxygouroun i wrote:


It's not a free slot. It makes your big guy your warlord. Which means that 1. You're most likely giving away Slay the Warlord early. 2. You get locked out of a lot of options (specifically T.Sons lose 2/3 of their PA update if they want to even field Magnus.

I'm thinking there won't be things like Slay the Warlord or First Blood. It is either Primary or Secondary now. There's a 3 points for a Character kill, but no one wants to kill Magnus for that -- unless it has a clause for bigger models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I still don't understand why this stops you from taking two Daemon Primarchs.

Sorry - to revise - no smash brothers without a cost.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.
And theres no way to make an Ynnari Wraithknight anymore.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

What was your other detachment?

depends on the day but these were my usual detachments : CSM battalion/brigade, Tzeentch demons battalion, Slaanesh supreme command, Thousand sons supreme/battalion

The Slaanesh demons i own are litterally only : Syll'esske, The contorted epitome and an herald on foot.

Ah, gotcha. Yea that complicates it. It definitely looks like they want fewer HQs around.

yeah, this bums me out a lot, 3 of my armies just got pretty huge hits, i'm guessing to nerf the Thousand Sons supreme command list :(

This is great news. I am very pleased.

I'm not opposed to the idea of HQs becoming rarer in principle, but this impacts different armies in radically different ways.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'm not opposed to the idea of HQs becoming rarer in principle, but this impacts different armies in radically different ways.

We might see a number of named HQs get 'supreme commander'. So while it isn't a LOW there's still a way to expand HQ slots by one if you opt for that model's trait.

That feels like a step in the wrong direction, though. Reducing the amount of HQ choices but boosting the amount of named HQs is not how I'd like to see the game to go.

I.e. I do not want a world where every TS army has Magnus because it's the only way to get enough HQ choices to make the army work.

It already feels a bit ridiculous to see certain named characters in essentially every single list for that faction (Ahriman, Celestine, Feirros, Daedalosus, etc).

yukishiro1 wrote:
That feels like a step in the wrong direction, though. Reducing the amount of HQ choices but boosting the amount of named HQs is not how I'd like to see the game to go.

I.e. I do not want a world where every TS army has Magnus because it's the only way to get enough HQ choices to make the army work.

It already feels a bit ridiculous to see certain named characters in essentially every single list for that faction (Ahriman, Celestine, Feirros, Daedalosus, etc).

How is taking Magnus the only way to get enough HQ choices to make TS work? I think a lot of people are having some extreme difficulty in understanding just how all of these detachments are going to work.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

Me too, especially after all the negative horde changes i was going to shift more to slaanesh daemon princesses, keepers, big mamma slaanesh daemon if forgeworld stops makign her a joke... guess thats off the table too.

other side maybe they will bring back vect or any of the other named HQ's with supreme commander..

not sure what would even go in there for sisters, the triumph maybe? Celestine isnt really an "army commander" so dont see her, the OoML special character could probably go there, she is a cannoness superior... so who knows..

yukishiro1 wrote:
That feels like a step in the wrong direction, though. Reducing the amount of HQ choices but boosting the amount of named HQs is not how I'd like to see the game to go.

I.e. I do not want a world where every TS army has Magnus because it's the only way to get enough HQ choices to make the army work.

It already feels a bit ridiculous to see certain named characters in essentially every single list for that faction (Ahriman, Celestine, Feirros, Daedalosus, etc).

I don't think that is the case. Magnus comes with the caveat - reserve me or die, which will be 3 CP. Without this such a maneuver would be 6 CP and borderline unviable. Magnus still requires a lot of planning. You need a second caster dedicated to healing and buffing him so that Magnus doesn't spend time doing that and spends more time killing. Ahriman may well be a candidate, but its hard to say. Otherwise going Bridgage or Battalion / Patrol doesn't seem terrible, but it depends on what you want to run.

tulun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Yeah tripple Dawn eagle captains was a thing, Thousand Sons were posterboys for it with Ariman and 2 Demon Princes.

All of which could be done without a Supreme Command detachment...

Basically if you want them your warlord anyway you get a free HQ slot.

Slots are an expensive commodity.

Issue I have is I don’t really want Ghaz as my warlord.

Well you're not being forced to play him. But if you do? Then your going to play in-character for the faction - wich means the biggest baddest Ork on the field is "Da Boss".

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
That feels like a step in the wrong direction, though. Reducing the amount of HQ choices but boosting the amount of named HQs is not how I'd like to see the game to go.

I.e. I do not want a world where every TS army has Magnus because it's the only way to get enough HQ choices to make the army work.

It already feels a bit ridiculous to see certain named characters in essentially every single list for that faction (Ahriman, Celestine, Feirros, Daedalosus, etc).

I don't think that is the case. Magnus comes with the caveat - reserve me or die, which will be 3 CP. Without this such a maneuver would be 6 CP and borderline unviable. Magnus still requires a lot of planning. You need a second caster dedicated to healing and buffing him so that Magnus doesn't spend time doing that and spends more time killing. Ahriman may well be a candidate, but its hard to say. Otherwise going Bridgage or Battalion / Patrol doesn't seem terrible, but it depends on what you want to run.

I'm not saying it *is* the case. Just that I wouldn't like to see the solution to the lack of HQ slots be "just take this named HQ in a supreme detachment instead!" rather than rebalancing armies to not be so HQ-dependent.

ccs wrote:

tulun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Yeah tripple Dawn eagle captains was a thing, Thousand Sons were posterboys for it with Ariman and 2 Demon Princes.

All of which could be done without a Supreme Command detachment...

Basically if you want them your warlord anyway you get a free HQ slot.

Slots are an expensive commodity.

Issue I have is I don’t really want Ghaz as my warlord.

Well you're not being forced to play him. But if you do? Then your going to play in-character for the faction - wich means the biggest baddest Ork on the field is "Da Boss".

Not really. He can just take up a normal HQ slot, and I can make someone else my warlord.

Which is probably the smarter play unless I desperately need another HQ slot.

His warlord trait is... so mediocre.

 warmaster21 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Well feth me then.
I've been making a point of running a supreme command of slaanesh demons because i dont want to run daemonettes.

Thats such a bs change honestly.

Me too, especially after all the negative horde changes i was going to shift more to slaanesh daemon princesses, keepers, big mamma slaanesh daemon if forgeworld stops makign her a joke... guess thats off the table too.

other side maybe they will bring back vect or any of the other named HQ's with supreme commander..

not sure what would even go in there for sisters, the triumph maybe? Celestine isnt really an "army commander" so dont see her, the OoML special character could probably go there, she is a cannoness superior... so who knows..

I'm really hoping that theres gonna be an alternative that lets me play without forcing me to buy new units that don't interest me. I guess i could do a vanguard detachment with 3x1 fiends as an alternative

tulun wrote:

ccs wrote:

tulun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Yeah tripple Dawn eagle captains was a thing, Thousand Sons were posterboys for it with Ariman and 2 Demon Princes.

All of which could be done without a Supreme Command detachment...

Basically if you want them your warlord anyway you get a free HQ slot.

Slots are an expensive commodity.

Issue I have is I don’t really want Ghaz as my warlord.

Well you're not being forced to play him. But if you do? Then your going to play in-character for the faction - wich means the biggest baddest Ork on the field is "Da Boss".

Not really. He can just take up a normal HQ slot, and I can make someone else my warlord.

Which is probably the smarter play unless I desperately need another HQ slot.

His warlord trait is... so mediocre.

So as you've got a work around (for the moment) you were just complaining to complain?