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Made in us
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Red Corsair wrote:I also should have shouted out the other two beasts. Razorwing flocks allow for a single 4 wound unit at 14pts, while min 2 khymera at 24pts makes them pretty insanely cheap as well. While the khymera probably are not worth running as minimums the flocks are pretty hilarious being movement 12 with fly. They might be the cheapest unit in the game now.


Red Corsair wrote:Again, a 14pt flock or a 35 point fiend open up even more doors for secondaries. Unless you like sacrificing nearly 100 point transports plus possible occupants to secondaries like table quarters or teleport homer repair.


I like the idea of the 14pt flock just denying enemy scoring for a turn. I imagine a lot of armies will be relying on a single transport getting to an objective, but you can respond with a flock moving there (good reason to go second).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/19 21:26:12


   
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BEAST keyword units cannot perform any action in the eternal war secondary list. Just keep that in mind. They can score Linebreaker/Engage on All Fronts but that secondary is the only thing solo beasts can do. Personally, if something lacks Infantry, that disqualifies it in my eyes from performing the role of micro-unit secondary do-er.

Also, MSU isn't entirely unpunishable. There is Attrition, an extremely easy 4 points if you play super MSU that is basically not competing with anything in its secondary slot. Individual Sslyth especially in Black Heart are a better option IMO - 3W, but with a 5++ and a 6+FNP, smaller, only 2" less movement, and 14 points less.

Had my second practical test run of Drukhari this weekend

Spoiler:

Patrol
Prophets of Flesh
HQ: Haemonculus 65, EC Whip 5, Stinger Pistol 5
Troops: x5 Wracks 60, Hexrifle 5 Ossefactor 5
Elites: x5 Grots 200, 5x Flesh Gauntlets 25
Heavy: Cronos 70
Elites: Mandrakes x5 85

Black Heart Kabal
HQ: Archon 60, Huskblade 5, Writ of the Living Muse
Troops: Kabalites x5 with Blaster 55
Troops: Kabalites x10 with Blaster+Dark Lance 110
Transport: Raider 70 with Dark Lance 15
Transport: Venom 60 with Splinter Cannon 10
Fast: x5 Scourges 75 with 4x Haywire 40
Heavy: Ravager 85 with Dark Lances 45
Elites: Mandrakes x5 85

Custom cult: Test of Skill+Slashing Impact
HQ: Succubus 55 with Shardnet+Impaler 10 and Helm of Spite relic (S Drugs)
Troop: X10 Wyches 110 with Shardnet 10 Blast Pistol 5 and 2x Hydra Gauntlets 10 (Move Drugs)
Transport: Raider 70 with Disintegrator 25 Grisly Trophies+Chainsnares 4
Fast: X10 Reavers 200 with 3x Blasters 30 and 3x grav talons 9 (T Drugs)
Fast: X15 Hellions 225 with Agonizer 5 (A Drugs)
Flyer: Voidraven 185 with missiles 0

Took a slightly modified version of the same list (Dropped 2 bikes to get down to 10 below the blast threshold and take 2x5 squads of mandrakes instead of 1x7) and played against

Alpha Legion Battalion
Jump Sorceror (Death Hex, Warptime)
Winged Daemon Prince (Diabolical Strength)
5x CSM with Reaper Chaincannon+Combibolter
5x CSM with Reaper Chaincannon+Combibolter
5x CSM with Reaper Chaincannon+Combibolter
5x Chosen with several plasma guns

Iron warriors Battalion (Warp Pack specialist detachment that gives the +2 movement aura trait)
Discolord
Discolord
Master of Possession
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
3x Obliterators
Maulerfiend
Khorne Blood Slaughterer
Venomcrawler

We played the mission with long edge deployment and four objectives, 1 in each deployment zone and 2 on the centerline. Secondaries turn out not to matter, but I took the obvious vehicle killing one and Linebreaker+Homer. We were a little light on terrain, seeing as we were playing at my house and mostly just had vehicle models that made appropriate terrain pieces, so we just had a single piece of Obscuring terrain (a void shield generator) that we stuck in the center. If the recommended number of terrain elements is 24 on a min-size table, we had 16 (not counting each individual tiny piece, but counting for example a crashed vehicle and a small wall together as a single 'element'). Seeing as this was the case we ruled all terrain Light+Dense Cover to make it as impactful as possible.

We started the game off with what turned out to be a mistake - my opponent thought his Alpha Legion move had to happen before we knew who went first, because it was during deployment. Reading the rule and the mission rule I'm pretty sure he just spends the CP during deployment, and he could theoretically choose not to move after knowing he wasn't going first. But he moved 5 CSMs up to the objective on the right flank, and created a pretty easy 6" charge for my Wyches in their raider seeing as I went first.

So the Grots advance and get a 6 and make it on to the objective without having to Fire and Fade, the wyches and succubus charge the 5 CSMs and wipe them off the other objective, and all the antitank firepower goes into killing the Blood Slaughterer who is the only daemon engine not behind -1 to hit terrain. I realize right at the end I haven't fired the plane, and it shoots one of the Lords Discordant for a total of 7/12 hit points.

Opponent's turn, he shoots and charges the wyches and succubus with two mostly undamaged cultist squads, after inadvisably letting the succubus soak a bunch of autogun and flamer fire because one of the cultist squads was allowed to target her. He rolls max on the obliterators (S9 AP-3 D3) and shoots them at the voidraven dealing 7 damage, I Agents of Vect the double-shoot stratagem. A daemon prince and both discolords charge the Grotesques who are also death hexed so they're basically done, and the Maulerfiend warptimes into the Hellions.

In the big game-ending mistake, my opponent decides to play for objectives and picks the cultist squad to go first, wiping out the wyches and leaving the succubus surrounded by ~18 obsec cultists right on the objective. I interrupt with the Grotesques, use Torturer's Craft, and roll well against the damaged discolord, who rolls very poorly on his saves, loses 6 wounds and dies. To add insult to injury the second discolord and daemon prince don't even manage to wipe the whole Grotesque squad even with no invuln thanks to some extremely inconvenient PFP rolls and damage roll timings where every time he rolled a "3" for one of his D3 damage weapons, it would finish off a guy with a single wound left. The Maulerfiend kills 6/15 hellions and takes 8 damage in return. Hellions lose a single dude to morale.

My turn, I score 5 for primary and have scored another 5 for bring it down. Bikes move into the enemy DZ and a unit of mandrakes also comes down to perform Repair Teleport Homer. The one grotesque falls back, and all the kabal stuff+Deep striking scourges+the flyer and remaining coven stuff kill the DP and Discolord. The bikes shoot and charge the obliterators and kill them, and the hellions charge back in with Hyperstimm Backlash on and kill the maulerfiend. We shake there, since my opponent just has a single daemon engine left by his turn 2 and is pretty much out of stuff that kills stuff.


Fewer useful lessons overall this game because scoring wasn't so much an important part of it. I still think morale effects our units less than we really realize at this point, and you can get a lot of mileage out of larger squads, blast vulnerability aside. Terrain didn't hardly do anything this game, it just dictated what I had to target turn 1 but by turn 2 we were basically on top of each other in the center of the board so I could pretty easily just avoid shooting across any terrain. The Fight First trait might be the best one for the succubus at this point, having that instead of Precision Blows would have really helped, if you're running custom cult definitely consider that one.

Mostly what this showed me is: Games of 9th ed can still very much end turn 2 like games of 8th did and leave everyone disappointed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/20 12:07:52


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
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Port Carmine

Well done, that's really cool.

Do you think Rakarth would be worth it over a regular Haemonculus? His strength buff is great on Grots, and he is hard to kill, but his offensive output is meh, and he cant get a Vexator mask.

Did the Cronos contribute anything worthwhile?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/20 17:57:56


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 harlokin wrote:
Well done, that's really cool.

Do you think Rakarth would be worth it over a regular Haemonculus? His strength buff is great on Grots, and he is hard to kill, but his offensive output is meh, and he cant get a Vexator mask.


I used the Writ and the Helm of Spite, so didn't use a Vexator in the first place. just ran a completely barebones Haemonculus with Soothsayer.

100% vexator is better than +1s aura IMO. the difficulty of killing them is kind of irrelevant, if your HQ is taking fire you're probably winning out on the exchange anyway. In the situation i ended up in, it didn't matter, because it was Grotesques vs 3 nasty enemies, so if any of them had fought first the grots impact would have been pretty much nullified, but that's a huge deterrent to elite enemy units charging in to your tank squad.

EC whip + Vexator Haemonculus is best haemonculus.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend





Port Carmine

Are there any opinions/observations on how Dissies now costing 5 points more than DLs affects their relative values?

Does anything change, or are we best off just swallowing the increased Dissie cost?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/21 08:31:13


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If i'm going Lance i'll just take Reapers, Dis Cannons are still too good not to take IMO, especially with more marines than ever going to the table.

   
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Hamburg

 Amishprn86 wrote:
If i'm going Lance i'll just take Reapers, Dis Cannons are still too good not to take IMO, especially with more marines than ever going to the table.

Seconded.
Especially with lots of Intercessors with 2W who can be killed instantly.

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Italy

I don't see the purpose with lances at the moment. Dis cannons outperform them completely, and some blasters can still be added to get S8 shots. Talos can take haywire also. So, no lances at the moment should stay home.

 
   
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 Blackie wrote:
I don't see the purpose with lances at the moment. Dis cannons outperform them completely, and some blasters can still be added to get S8 shots. Talos can take haywire also. So, no lances at the moment should stay home.


I don't take blasters anymore. ToS BP wyches are so much better IMO, and a ToS Reaper can be effective as well, wound on 2+ vs T7.

   
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Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Blackie wrote:
I don't see the purpose with lances at the moment. Dis cannons outperform them completely, and some blasters can still be added to get S8 shots. Talos can take haywire also. So, no lances at the moment should stay home.


This was a key point for me in 8th. I can already get the Dark Lance statline in the form of a Blaster, but I can't get the Disintegrator statline anywhere other than vehicles.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
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pontiac, michigan; usa

The issue I had with blasters is anything with them (barring maybe reavers) tends to die super fast. Light infantry like geq die super fast now. Unless it has good toughness or at least a 3+ armor or good inv save then it's a waste. Blasters also cost a lot for what they are and have a stupidly short range. It's a shame lots of weapons in our list just feel so bad. I usually prefer dissies because it's somewhat limited in what you can take it on, it has good range, is the only ranged anti infantry weapon effective at a range greater than 18" (meaning it isn't in the enemy's guns), it can handle marines and has a strength and armor piercing value that could even make it ok vs vehicles (sometimes).

All that said I don't know the rules of 9th and have not prepared for such (our 8th ed thread is dead right?). If you have the reading material needed I'd be grateful. At the same time corona has made my care for getting models and books go away almost completely. It's a shame because I want to play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/22 01:45:32


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http://the-under-empire.proboards.com/ (my skaven forum) 
   
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 flamingkillamajig wrote:
The issue I had with blasters is anything with them (barring maybe reavers) tends to die super fast. Light infantry like geq die super fast now. Unless it has good toughness or at least a 3+ armor or good inv save then it's a waste. Blasters also cost a lot for what they are and have a stupidly short range. It's a shame lots of weapons in our list just feel so bad. I usually prefer dissies because it's somewhat limited in what you can take it on, it has good range, is the only ranged anti infantry weapon effective at a range greater than 18" (meaning it isn't in the enemy's guns), it can handle marines and has a strength and armor piercing value that could even make it ok vs vehicles (sometimes).

All that said I don't know the rules of 9th and have not prepared for such (our 8th ed thread is dead right?). If you have the reading material needed I'd be grateful. At the same time corona has made my care for getting models and books go away almost completely. It's a shame because I want to play.


I think a blaster is still generally warranted on any kabalite squad (especially now that the points gap between shredders and blasters has closed by 4) because it lends them credible threat to armored opponents. I also still like it on Reavers over heat lances - 5pts more expensive, yes, but wounds on 3s vs wounds on 5s is well worth it IMO.

I'm definitely still going haywire blasters over blasters on my scourge squad, the extra range is very nice and it makes them 20pts cheaper as a squad.

Blast pistols are down at 5 points, which in my eyes makes them pretty much an autoinclude on any character I'm going to have anywhere near the enemy. 5pts for a bs2 blaster shot? Absolutely.

I'm not willingly taking any lances on anything, I think disintegrators are still better at 20pts. I've even gone for the dark scythes on my voidraven now just on the off chance somebody hands me a 6-man meq squad to get auto-6 shots on.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 vipoid wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
I don't see the purpose with lances at the moment. Dis cannons outperform them completely, and some blasters can still be added to get S8 shots. Talos can take haywire also. So, no lances at the moment should stay home.


This was a key point for me in 8th. I can already get the Dark Lance statline in the form of a Blaster, but I can't get the Disintegrator statline anywhere other than vehicles.


Yeah me too. Never used lances in 8th, only dissies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
I don't see the purpose with lances at the moment. Dis cannons outperform them completely, and some blasters can still be added to get S8 shots. Talos can take haywire also. So, no lances at the moment should stay home.


I don't take blasters anymore. ToS BP wyches are so much better IMO, and a ToS Reaper can be effective as well, wound on 2+ vs T7.


Blast pistols on wyches are the new blasters on kabalites

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/22 14:08:40


 
   
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Well, as long as you're OK with paying the extra 10pts for the privilege of having wyches over kabs.


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






the_scotsman wrote:
Well, as long as you're OK with paying the extra 10pts for the privilege of having wyches over kabs.



They both are 60pts for 5 models and BP/Blaster, Blasters are 15pts, BP are 5pts. The real difference is, Kabals you can shoot from 18' where wyches you need to be close.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Based on this discussion, I'm regretting putting triple Dark lances on my 3 Ravagers. The last time I played Dark Eldar was at the hight of 5th edition Parking Lot spam. I needed all the Dark Light weaponry I could take.

I do run 4 Raiders with Disintegrator Cannons however.

I think the Dark lances may prove a bit better than last edition however considering Vehicles got a considerable boost and (correct me if I'm wrong) are slightly cheaper.

I know this is a lot of people's primary army, but I don't think we should count on our Troops maintaining their current points value. There's no way Kabalites are worth 9 points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/23 03:09:26


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AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
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Port Carmine

 Amishprn86 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Well, as long as you're OK with paying the extra 10pts for the privilege of having wyches over kabs.



They both are 60pts for 5 models and BP/Blaster, Blasters are 15pts, BP are 5pts. The real difference is, Kabals you can shoot from 18' where wyches you need to be close.


Yup. Kabalites have the range advantage, whereas Wyches can still fire when their boat gets caught in engagement range, and if it comes to close combat Wyches are considerably more effective and survivable than Kabalites.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/23 10:04:14


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Port Carmine

What is the general feeling about Venoms vs Raiders with the current rules/points?

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The dark behind the eyes.

 harlokin wrote:
What is the general feeling about Venoms vs Raiders with the current rules/points?


It's difficult.

On the one hand, 25pt Disintegrators is painful and paying just shy of 100pts for a single Raider really doesn't seem worth it. But at the same time, Venoms have gone up 10pts and still have garbage firepower. They're also liable to be less effective against a meta that seems increasingly Primaris-driven.

However, my biggest problem is that the ludicrous increase in the cost of our troops means there's no longer anything I'd want to put inside them.


 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in no
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Bergen

Is there any way where I can se the points before and after 9th edition?

I have the codex, I have ordered the new rules and new points but they have not arived yet. But that stil means I am sitting comparing points manualy. Somebody on the internett must have done so already.

   
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The dark behind the eyes.

 Niiai wrote:
Is there any way where I can se the points before and after 9th edition?

I have the codex, I have ordered the new rules and new points but they have not arived yet. But that stil means I am sitting comparing points manualy. Somebody on the internett must have done so already.


Try this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1imDg-fwz0NUE46QwjIRcGgDUV7bXRY8J_PCbbTw90lU/edit#gid=1963133187

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 harlokin wrote:
What is the general feeling about Venoms vs Raiders with the current rules/points?


I've played 6 games so far, Venoms are IMO not worth it anymore, Raiders are still fine. But in general i'm not taking much of any transports.

B.c negatives are now capped at -1, its actually more common for players to move heavy, advance with assault, etc.. also with new terrain rules it also more common to get -1 to hits here and there (basically all Dense cover and there is a lot of it). So the -1 on Venoms isn't as good anymore and Raiders now has the ability to get it time to time, given raiders also already where toughness even without the -1, they are even better now.

Honestly the venom should have gone up 5pts, but the Splinter cannon should not have, paying 75pts for a Venom when Starweavers are 80 and a Raider is only 10pts more for something better just sucks.

If you need range anti-infantry honestly venoms are bad at that too, 1 venom within Rapid fire range and 5 kabals within range is 20 shots, that only kills 4.4 guardsmen, that means 120pts kills 20pts of guys, you need over 220pts to just kill 50pts of throw away units. If you are FS with re-roll 1's, then your 2 venoms with 5 kabals will on average kill 1x10 guardsmen, but just kills them, this is also NOT taking into account cover with -1 to be hit, sure you ignore the +1sv but not the -1 to hit.

Note that 2 raiders with 5 kabals each will kill 2 less Guardsmen, but nearly doubles the damage against marines and better vs vehicles. Yes it cost 20pts more in total, but it is also more survivable and if you live for 1 more turn the damage is now more than Venoms. Or if they have to pour in more damage to it means less things over all dies.

I;m actually only taking 1 or 2 Kabal units at the most now and they are just on foot. Only so i can have 2-3 Ravagers, if i take 3 I also taking a Reaper.

   
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Port Carmine

Thanks for the replies, I guess I'm ging to get steamrolled a lot when play resumes ; my friends have Harlequins, DG, 1KS, and Custodes..... all of which did at least ok in the points shakeup.

I'm likely to be playing against the Quins a few times initially, has anybody got any tips to try and make a good showing? His list is a fairly standard Soaring Spite army with Skyweavers and Starweavers.


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Harlequins are for sure one fot he top armies now. They might not kill a lot of you stuff compare to other armies, but they play the missions so extremely efficient you'll lose via points.

Against Custodes you have a good chance still, mostly b.c of we are fast and MSU units, with their low unit count they over kill a lot, force them to over commit and win via points.


I'm actually 0-3 against quins right now, and i play them as a tournament army as well, they just are so good in 9th. Especially when we got a huge points nerf.

Looking at my 8th army and his 8th army, i'm at 2434 points where he is at 2155pts. Thats about 280pts difference for same fire power from old to new, not only that but 9th helped them more than DE. So Quins are in a really strong spot.

   
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Port Carmine

Haha, thanks, it's kind of what I expected.

Is there anything I can take that might be decent againt the Quins in particular, or anything to really avoid?

I only own three Taloi, so I can't spam them.

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Well Coven is goo against Quins, he has to stay away from them, if you put 2 units on 2 objectives it will take him a lot to remove them. If you are supporting those 2 spots even more os. Don't rush to hard to soon and support your units. If he is good he will try to focus down 1 side hard, and use his speed to out move you. So watch for that.

   
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Hamburg

Looking at my 8th army and his 8th army, i'm at 2434 points where he is at 2155pts. Thats about 280pts difference for same fire power from old to new, not only that but 9th helped them more than DE. So Quins are in a really strong spot.

That's really amazing.
Quins also got a hit - Skyweavers and Troupes got more expensive.

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Tbh if I was playinf against quins (what a concept! Never once in the years since they came out) I'd play pure wych cult. Maybe with coven.

Make melta, haywire, and weapon upgrades as futile as possible and throw things like Lelith with an impaler vs his characters, hellions vs his vehicles and bikes, and wyches and razorwing flocks vs his troops.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
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Port Carmine

the_scotsman wrote:
Tbh if I was playinf against quins (what a concept! Never once in the years since they came out) I'd play pure wych cult. Maybe with coven.

Make melta, haywire, and weapon upgrades as futile as possible and throw things like Lelith with an impaler vs his characters, hellions vs his vehicles and bikes, and wyches and razorwing flocks vs his troops.


Thanks for that, I was going to ask about Wyches.

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Always IMO take a BP, they are 5pts now, super cheap and if you get stuck in combat you can still shoot it, way worth it over Blasters.

A Kabal unit with a Blaster is same points as a Wych units with a BP.

Also if you are going 5mans, go for MSU shock killers, take the 5pt weapon and not shardnets. b.c Sharnets are not 10pts i would save them for 10mans and you only need 1 per unit, to costly to spam nets now.

   
 
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