Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been doing Crusade lately and oh boy is it fun. All 3 factions are fun, but for sure only start with 1 or 2 and make sure to have Incubi and Mandrakes. Also start with 2 HQ's (I did 2 Archons).

After 3 games both my Archons have a 4++ either in addition to or after their Shadowfield. I have a Sslyth that is -2, 2D in melee lol, and a Couple Kabal units with rr all 1's, now my Blaster/BP's hits more often while in vehicles. The Archons are just beat sticks and they feel good in melee now.

Coven and Wych is still great fun too, and honestly are better in Crusade than Kabal, but I'm doing Kabal b.c my main 2k games has no kabal in it, or its just a BH detachment for AoV.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I've been doing Crusade lately and oh boy is it fun. All 3 factions are fun, but for sure only start with 1 or 2 and make sure to have Incubi and Mandrakes. Also start with 2 HQ's (I did 2 Archons).

After 3 games both my Archons have a 4++ either in addition to or after their Shadowfield. I have a Sslyth that is -2, 2D in melee lol, and a Couple Kabal units with rr all 1's, now my Blaster/BP's hits more often while in vehicles. The Archons are just beat sticks and they feel good in melee now.

Can I ask how you got 2 Archons with 4++ saves?

 vipoid wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I've been doing Crusade lately and oh boy is it fun. All 3 factions are fun, but for sure only start with 1 or 2 and make sure to have Incubi and Mandrakes. Also start with 2 HQ's (I did 2 Archons).

After 3 games both my Archons have a 4++ either in addition to or after their Shadowfield. I have a Sslyth that is -2, 2D in melee lol, and a Couple Kabal units with rr all 1's, now my Blaster/BP's hits more often while in vehicles. The Archons are just beat sticks and they feel good in melee now.

Can I ask how you got 2 Archons with 4++ saves?

One is the Flayed Skull relic the other is a Crusade relic.

 Denegaar wrote:
It's a matter of opinion mate. I have fun with fluffy fast lists I have fun with Talos and Cronos too... but I'm not that concerned about winning, and my friends play lists like mine so we are fine. If I'd get stomped every other day I'd change my mind.

I lost my last 4 games and 3 were against the same tournament level player. Had a chance to win vs the other death guard opponent and would've but I thought slashing impact would hurt them. It didn't. I made a bad mistake that cost me the game but not by much.

Most of the people i've been playing against lately are pretty tough. The main opponent is using probably one of the best chaos marine builds i've ever faced.

Will the new +1 str power swords make a noticeable difference on wyches now that even without cursed blade or grave lotus the hekatrix wounds t4 on a 4+?

Yes, very much so, and I can't wait.

Just a week for new Power Swords!!!

We Dark Kin dudes don't need much to be happy...

I don't quite understand the joy, why does the Hekatrix's weapon being slightly better matter?

Not much IMO, but for me it's like a joke, "we get better". Of course it's much better than before, but it's not like all wyches can use them. If we could field Bloodbrides though...

 Denegaar wrote:
Not much IMO, but for me it's like a joke, "we get better". Of course it's much better than before, but it's not like all wyches can use them. If we could field Bloodbrides though...

Yes, I agree. The perverse thing is that if Heat Lances were getting the Melta upgrades, it might have been worth celebrating.....but no, those have to wait... for reasons.

I just had another game against nids this time. He plays in tournaments so he's not exactly weak and we always get a good game but i often lose. For some reason 9th edition has been un-kind to me.

I think i need more chaff this time to block most enemy DS. It wasn't a huge problem this game but locking DS and enemy movement out from my more important shooting would be nice.

Another big issue i have is i can't really kill enemy characters that give buff bubbles unless i do dark technomancers.

The final issue is being able to move around quickly enough to grab objectives all around the map while simultaneously having the the durability to stay alive long enough for it to matter. I may just have to take wracks in transports just so i can zoom them up far enough and use them to lock down zones, get objective secured and tank enemy shooting and melee without much issue.

I'm also probably gonna never use scourge unless the codex makes them decent with shredders. I may try them with shredders now but i'm just worried they'll die too fast and get locked down too hard.

I'm heavily considering not taking wych cult in general and using wracks in transports to make up for them where possible.

DE right now has a chard time killing characters for sure. We need to focus to much on other things. For character you can ignore them and kill what they buff, or ignore the units and kill the buffer. This will depend on a lot of things, but it is general easier for us to focus on the units. You also need lots of layers as DE now and ways to stay a live. Grots, troops in Transports, etc.. Finally you do need to spread out a little, but make sure each unit has another unit in range ot help them out if you need to.

I'm starting a Crusade tomorrow, ideas for the initial roster? I have:

- 2 Archons
- 15 Warriors
- 1 Succubus
- 10 Wyches
- 1 Haemonculous
- 10 Wracks
- 3 Grots
- 2 Talos
- Drazhar
- 5 Incubi
- 3 Venom
- 2 Raider
- Ynnari Chars

Maybe my strongest bet at the beggining is Coven + Incubi?

Unique characters gains nothing from it, Incubi are great, Heroes are great, Grots are great too. But remember you have to build lists into detachments so becareful of transports.

I kinda remember that my initial roster has to be 50PL max, so for example...

Archon
Archon
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Incubi
Venom
Venom
Venom
Raider
Raider

Would be a legal roster? And when I get more "points" I can add a Succubus + some Wyches + some Reavers. For example.

My friend has my rulebook and I can't check!

All rosters are legal even if you mix, when you start your game you build alist out of your roster, you built it like you would for any more game, you need to pick a detachment and put units in it.
But the big thing is when building a roster is you have to pick a Faction Trait when you add a unit to the roster.

If you have any questions let me know as its all I've been playing lately.

Units have to have an obsession and its impossible to change it, right?

 Denegaar wrote:
Units have to have an obsession and its impossible to change it, right?

Once you put them in your Roster you have to pick a trait and they have to keep it the whole time. You can remove units and replace them this will reset their traits, but it also resets their EXP and upgrades.

Do you have the BRB? its only like 3 pages for core rules.

One of my friends has my Rulebook, today I'll get it back! Thanks!

After my first Crusade game, I have to say it's pretty fun! I brought:

- Archon
- 5x Warrior
- 5x Warrior
- 5x Incubi
- Venom
- Raider

I was thinking a couple Sslyth for the full 25, but my friend was playing 23 points so I cut them.

My friends Agenda was some kind of Psyker Ritual, while mine was (thematically) Abhor the Witch. Finally it's been really close but I got the victory with my Venom at 2W with my Archon inside trying to kill his Wraithlord at 1W.

Next week we'll play the next one I can't see myself playing anything else than Crusade until the Codex drops.

Has anybody been DS'ing minimum sized squads such as mandrakes or scourge completely bare on points to use on the Shadow Operations secondary objectives. I found plenty of good chances to DS a weak infantry unit somewhere only to finish what it needs to do in its movement phase enough to score me some secondary objective points and at that point it's living or dying doesn't hold much importance once it's job is done. It's the true dark eldar way!

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Has anybody been DS'ing minimum sized squads such as mandrakes or scourge completely bare on points to use on the Shadow Operations secondary objectives. I found plenty of good chances to DS a weak infantry unit somewhere only to finish what it needs to do in its movement phase enough to score me some secondary objective points and at that point it's living or dying doesn't hold much importance once it's job is done. It's the true dark eldar way!

I know that a few of the ork players in the ork-tactics-thread do the same thing with min sized units of kommandoz to get the Teleport Homer Objective.

I would use Mandarkes for sure. 5 stock Mandrakes are 85 to the Scourges 75, but at this level they are huuuuugely better, IMO. Those 10 points are worth paying.

Baleblast + decent melee + -1 to be hit + better save.

VS

Shardcarbines and wings that you're not going to be using.

Edit: thinking out loud, I'm not sure why I don't have Mandrakes in my roster. Finecast, I guess.

Agree completely. MSU Mandrakes are really good.

Their finecast models aren't exactly a pleasure to put together (or clean), but are worth the effort.

I've got 2 Blackstone Fortress Ur-Ghuls for 3€ each, do you play them for doing actions or smth like that?

I'm going to put them in my Crusade roster easily, not sure about 2k games.

Yeah, just use them for actions. Works great. I use 2 Ur-Ghuls in every list if I take a Archon.

In Crusade I use 2 Sslyths b.c they are better for the same PL.

I get wanting mandrakes instead of scourge but if you just use them to grab points there's no real point spending 10 extra points unless they get rid of those objectives at some point or prevent ds units from scoring them. If the point was fighting I'd take mandrakes every time unless the scourge had shredders maybe but scourge mostly disappoint anyway right now.

Perhaps mandrakes could raise a banner with other secondary objectives but theyre aren't really tough enough for my tastes. I'm not sure how we could get those objectives in a cost effective manner. Perhaps ds 10 man PoF wracks from transports but then that'd get expensive in points and in command points. Maybe it'd just be better to do dark technomancers covens with transports since then you can use the transport after to shoot with. Ugh nm at that point it'd take too long and you'd be better using the transports already deployed. Ugh I'll figure something out.

Anyway it's basically just two 5 man's and that's simple enough to use in most games. Either choice works.

Outside of objectives -1 to hit even with 5+ inv probably isn't that tough with marines everywhere right now. I don't imagine it'd last very long given the 3+ to hit, 2 wound, t4 or better marines on the field in the current meta.

------

Guys you know whatd be really dirty for secondary objectives? We can spam warriors and use webway portal stratagem with webway raiders so you can have a crap load of cheap infantry grabbing points everywhere up to a predetermined limit. These can be used for basically any various board control missions and you'll generally have enough to ds anywhere.

I'd pay those 10 extra points every day.

The point of Scourges are their weapons, outside of that they are pretty frail and the Shardcarbines are... not that good.

On the other hand, Baleblast is... pretty good. I think is the best "cheap" weapon we have actually. Assault 2 S4 -1 AP mortals on 6s? Plus I agree that now that we can't stack -1 to hit, Mandrakes ability is worse, but at least you don't have to worry to find the right cover. And having in mind a lot of weaponry in the game is -1 or -2 AP, 5++ is better IMO than 4+ 6++.

I can understand both perspectives, but Mandrakes feel pretty good right now, and the more I talk about them the more I want to buy some of those awful finecast or convert some dudes.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I get wanting mandrakes instead of scourge but if you just use them to grab points there's no real point spending 10 extra points unless they get rid of those objectives at some point or prevent ds units from scoring them. If the point was fighting I'd take mandrakes every time unless the scourge had shredders maybe but scourge mostly disappoint anyway right now.

Perhaps mandrakes could raise a banner with other secondary objectives but theyre aren't really tough enough for my tastes. I'm not sure how we could get those objectives in a cost effective manner. Perhaps ds 10 man PoF wracks from transports but then that'd get expensive in points and in command points. Maybe it'd just be better to do dark technomancers covens with transports since then you can use the transport after to shoot with. Ugh nm at that point it'd take too long and you'd be better using the transports already deployed. Ugh I'll figure something out.

Anyway it's basically just two 5 man's and that's simple enough to use in most games. Either choice works.

Outside of objectives -1 to hit even with 5+ inv probably isn't that tough with marines everywhere right now. I don't imagine it'd last very long given the 3+ to hit, 2 wound, t4 or better marines on the field in the current meta.

------

Guys you know whatd be really dirty for secondary objectives? We can spam warriors and use webway portal stratagem with webway raiders so you can have a crap load of cheap infantry grabbing points everywhere up to a predetermined limit. These can be used for basically any various board control missions and you'll generally have enough to ds anywhere.

Those 10more poits gets you a free -1 to be hit, 5++ and more damage if you need that damage. Over all its a no brainer.

You say its not tough, but its the difference of 1 unit shooting and killing them and 2 units needing to shoot and kill them, which is very good and can mean the difference of them staying alive or not. I play 2x5 most games and all my opponents hates them, if i had scourges I couldn't do anything near the same. So yea 10pts is good.

Scourges REALLY needs the SoB Seraphim stratagem to shoot them they arrive via DSing, honestly Mandrakes should get a stratagem for them too maybe DS outside of 6" instead of 9" or +3" to charge something neat for them.

It would be fluffy to give Mandrakes a strategem to allow them to target characters.....maybe even DS close to enemy characters.

 harlokin wrote:
It would be fluffy to give Mandrakes a strategem to allow them to target characters.....maybe even DS close to enemy characters.

They're supposed to literally step out of people's shadows, aren't they?