Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Scalping is poopy and bad. But being a chucklehead and getting scalped is more bad.

Meh, it's annoying behavior but it certainly ranks low on the outrage scale.
It's not some life-critical resource - it's a box of things that are probably not really that remarkable even in the context of our hobby! These units are going to be available in other ways.

It's GWs fault for selling the box in limited amounts. And the people who buy them on ebay this way are also to blame. The ones whoresell are just opportunists in a bad system, they are not to blame.

 Overread wrote:
The other issue is that far as we know no content is unique to that box and if it is then its likely to only be the push-fit versions (which arguably are the less valued at large). The new four legged walker for the Necrons, for example, will likely be more valued as a complete kit with its optional weapon and other parts; than as a single version pushfit.

Of course we may never get a full kit for that, or any of the things in there. We know that the other new Necron walker is also an EZ2B model. Maybe we're lucky and it does have alternate parts, but we're still in the dark there.

Aelyn wrote:
Buying it purely to then resell it as a unit for a profit is unethical IMO,

Do you have some objection to how stores work? I mean, when my box arrives at my FLGS I'm sure they aren't going to only break even on the thing.
So if it's ethical for the local shop to make a profit, hows it become unethical for the guy who buys it from them to turn around & make a profit?

Aelyn wrote:
but buying it to split into a few sections and selling those separately (while turning a little profit in the meantime) is fine as long as you aren't taking the mick with the prices..

So let me get this straight. You're saying it's unethical to make your profit in one lump sum, but fine as long as you A) make it spread out over several smaller sales - requiring more listing fees/shipping/effort/etc B) only make profit that doesn't exceed some random persons benchmark?

What if I'm that random purchaser, I'm fine with the asking price(s), and I buy multiple lots from the same seller? Or even the whole thing?

So if (assuming the £120 price point is accurate) you sold the Necron models and Marine models for £60 per side and the rulebook for £40, turning an overall £40 profit, that seems fine to me. Selling them for £100 per side and the rulebook for £50, for a £130 profit... not so much. I have no idea where exactly the line between "okay" and not lies, though, but as a rule I'd say the more effort you go to and the more flexibility you offer (i.e. the more you refine the division), the more profit is acceptable.

Scalping is just gambling by another name. Is gambling immoral? Is playing poker immoral?

I purchase a box I intend to resell (placing a stake or bet).

I venture this against the belief that someone will pay more for it than I did (convince someone to put more into the pot than their hand will be worth).

If I venture correctly, the value of my goods will increase (playing a winning hand). If I venture poorly, the value of my goods will decrease (playing a losing hand).

No one is forced to buy (entering the game is voluntary).


The “value add” is the risk taken by the initial purchaser. If the box sale flops, they’re left holding the bag... or box in this case. I’m not saying it’s wise. Gamblers fail every day. But that’s what it is. Gambling. Not moral or immoral.

I think the scalpers currently advertising may find themselves looking pretty stupid once this box goes on general sale as I'm not convinced it's going to be limited in the way many people are assuming. Attempting to charge £100+ for each half of the models before you even know how scarce they're going to be isn't something I can get worked up about.

I don't get people's outrage over this in general but maybe that's because I've never been overly bothered about limited edition shiny stuff, especially at GW prices. If somebody wants to try to make a profit by capitalising on a company's enforced scarcity of product that's fine by me. If someone wants to pay a huge mark-up to get their hands on a limited edition book or box set the market is clearly there for it.

Scalping like this is not gambling.
Gambling is just that, it’s a gamble.

You cannot weigh the odds to your own devices while gambling (not legally anyway)

Buying a limited box from GW to sell on isn’t a gamble in any way.
As long as it’s a decent box (you know this before buying) then it’s a guarantee you will make money.


From a collectors perspective I can’t stand scalping.
It all depends on the scale of it though.


For example, I still play a ton of epic.
Expanding my tyranids is something I do whenever I see stuff for a reasonable price.
Scalpers cause an issue here massively though.
Epic zoanthropes? Usually sell for around £3-4 each.
1 certain ebayer though buys them the second they hit the site, then asks for £18 per model.

What does this achieve?
They have over 200 of them for sale, none left at a reasonable price and they haven’t sold one in over a year.
For things like this I see it as a dick move as literally no one benefits, it just ruins the market.
People then use these prices to try and sell their ones and wonder why no one is buying.

 Elbows wrote:

PS: No one gets to define someone's else morality.

Yes we do. We all get to judge Nazis.

ccs wrote:

Aelyn wrote:
Buying it purely to then resell it as a unit for a profit is unethical IMO,

Do you have some objection to how stores work? I mean, when my box arrives at my FLGS I'm sure they aren't going to only break even on the thing.
So if it's ethical for the local shop to make a profit, hows it become unethical for the guy who buys it from them to turn around & make a profit?

If the intent is to abuse its limited nature by artificially restricting supply and profiting as a result (which is implied by the term "scalping"), yes. If you ignore that context, my point doesn't necessarily stand.

If your FLGS sold the box for £120 to begin with, but when you came in you were told it was the last one so it was now £150, would you consider that okay?

There was an example someone gave earlier of one person buying literally every copy of Indomitus and then reselling them at £5000 apiece. Do you consider that absolutely fine and dandy, or would you agree that's a dick move?

ccs wrote:

Aelyn wrote:
but buying it to split into a few sections and selling those separately (while turning a little profit in the meantime) is fine as long as you aren't taking the mick with the prices..

So let me get this straight. You're saying it's unethical to make your profit in one lump sum, but fine as long as you A) make it spread out over several smaller sales - requiring more listing fees/shipping/effort/etc B) only make profit that doesn't exceed some random persons benchmark?

Point A: That's correct, since at that point you're providing a service and adding value into the supply chain.
Point B: There's a point at which it is definitely not a problem to split something up and resell it, and a point where it is clearly attempting to take advantage of people who either don't have any other way to obtain it, or who don't know better. I don't claim to know where exactly it goes from one to the other, which is why I gave my examples in terms of what I personally consider okay.

I'll point out that the entire point of this thread was to gauge "random people's benchmarks".

ccs wrote:
What if I'm that random purchaser, I'm fine with the asking price(s), and I buy multiple lots from the same seller? Or even the whole thing?

That's your prerogative, same as it's your choice to buy half a dozen separate cans of a soft drink instead of buying a six-pack even though it costs twice as much.

ccs wrote:

Aelyn wrote:
So if (assuming the £120 price point is accurate) you sold the Necron models and Marine models for £60 per side and the rulebook for £40, turning an overall £40 profit, that seems fine to me. Selling them for £100 per side and the rulebook for £50, for a £130 profit... not so much. I have no idea where exactly the line between "okay" and not lies, though, but as a rule I'd say the more effort you go to and the more flexibility you offer (i.e. the more you refine the division), the more profit is acceptable.

Pfft....LOL. Just absurd.

Do you have an actual point here, or are you just throwing around aimless derogatory comments?

Yes, the line between "I consider this okay" and "I don't consider this okay" is blurred. The entire point of this thread was to get people's thoughts on whether scalping was okay, so I gave my thoughts.

Sometimes a player wants to buy a single mini without buying the whole thing, or just missed out on an exclusive product....

 Elbows wrote:
If it's not illegal? Go for it. It's the result of GW producing limited quantities of sought-after product to falsely boost their "brand value", etc.

Do I like it? No. But, if it's not illegal, then I rightfully have zero say in the matter, so go nuts. I can consider someone sleezy (not you, but major eBayers whose business practice is continual resale at marked up prices) and still respect their right to do whatever they want to do within the bounds of the law.

If you're that concerned about it, consider auctioning it on eBay. Start it low and reasonable. If it ends up going for an insane amount - good, that's on the buyer, not you. If you're not buying up 20-30-40 boxes, I don't think reselling a box is a big deal.

Morality and the law are not the same. Imagine two countries, one where it is illegal to steal and one where it is legal to steal. Is it okay to steal in one and not the other? You do have a say in the matter, you can report it to GW that their products are being upsold on eBay and have them change their policies in terms of who and how they sell their product or make them increase their price to decrease the profits of the price gougers.

Let's say you are a millionaire, is it okay to steal a piece of candy? You are a millionaire, you have the money to purchase the candy, but you choose not to, is this wrong? Just because a shoulder check isn't attempted murder and doesn't deserve a prison sentence, it is not right to manipulate markets for your own benefit. Stuff like causing a panic in a market and then buying up all the shares is wrong, whether the local government has means by which to prosecute you or not. Instead of reselling limited edition items on eBay you should get an honest job. Go paint someone's miniatures, make the world a less grey place.

An honest merchant can make money, there is real possibility in a free market for both parties that participate in the transaction to make a wellness profit, but if you sell faulty products or buy up limited product just to resell it then you are decreasing the wellness in the world. By all means, if you need half the box you should sell the other half at market price, even if the market price is inflated because of scalpers, but if you get the product purely because you want to scalp then you are a bad person.

 BuFFo wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm a bad person for reselling them? I didn't bought them with that idea but the price difference (They were like 16€) is too big to ignore.

No. You are a good person if you sell those dice for 500 bucks. You'd be a bad person for feeling guilty for not doing anything wrong.

The only way this would be immoral is if you sold the dice and lied about them in some way, so that the person you sold them to didn't get what they paid for. If you sold 10 dice at 500 bucks, and only sent him 9 dice, then yes, you'd be a bad person. If he wants to buy your dice for 1 million dollars each, and you are not defrauding him, then you are a good person. The dice are your property. You and the other party set the terms for the trade as you two see fit, as long as neither of you are using force against the other.

I agree, but only because Galas bought the dice with the intention of using them.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Scalping is poopy and bad. But being a chucklehead and getting scalped is more bad.

I think this is an important part of the discussion, all the idiots buying scalped products are making things worse for everyone. Let the scalpers sit on the product for 6 months and then have them take a loss because of inflation.

Gitdakka wrote:
It's GWs fault for selling the box in limited amounts. And the people who buy them on ebay this way are also to blame. The ones whoresell are just opportunists in a bad system, they are not to blame.

That's a silly ideology, you can never condemn anyone when your morality only lets you see systems at fault. Not every system can be made 100% perfect, sometimes individual people have to take responsibility and not be asshats.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Scalping is just gambling by another name. Is gambling immoral? Is playing poker immoral?

I purchase a box I intend to resell (placing a stake or bet).

I venture this against the belief that someone will pay more for it than I did (convince someone to put more into the pot than their hand will be worth).

If I venture correctly, the value of my goods will increase (playing a winning hand). If I venture poorly, the value of my goods will decrease (playing a losing hand).

No one is forced to buy (entering the game is voluntary).


The “value add” is the risk taken by the initial purchaser. If the box sale flops, they’re left holding the bag... or box in this case. I’m not saying it’s wise. Gamblers fail every day. But that’s what it is. Gambling. Not moral or immoral.

The potential buyers never sat down to play Poker with you, they just want their plastic crack. It's not wrong to play tag, but it's wrong to go around poking random people on the street and saying "tag, you're it" and then running away laughing like a madman, however fun you find that to be, whether poking people is considered assault or not in your country, it is wrong IMO.

ccs wrote:

Aelyn wrote:
Buying it purely to then resell it as a unit for a profit is unethical IMO,

Do you have some objection to how stores work? I mean, when my box arrives at my FLGS I'm sure they aren't going to only break even on the thing.
So if it's ethical for the local shop to make a profit, hows it become unethical for the guy who buys it from them to turn around & make a profit?

If the store isn't scalping then it's not doing anything wrong, if the store is scalping then it is doing something wrong. A store can also provide additional service which an eBay reseller might not, stuff like customer service and a play area for the men to play with their toys. Maybe you knowingly overpay for product to help pay for the space the store has and to keep the employees employed at the store. Is anyone buying from scalpers because they love getting scalped? Or is it waiting for the product another week because scalpers have bought all the product so you can't get it immediately from GW that people love?

Scalping limited-stock items is gacky.
Reselling limited-stock items with a small markup to markets that cannot otherwise get them is OK.
Scalping limited-stock items that we know is going to get restocked later is bad for the scalper, so I'm all for it. It raises the numbers-sold, and makes that type of product more likely to be repeated in the future.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Scalping is just gambling by another name. Is gambling immoral? Is playing poker immoral?
I purchase a box I intend to resell (placing a stake or bet).
I venture this against the belief that someone will pay more for it than I did (convince someone to put more into the pot than their hand will be worth).
If I venture correctly, the value of my goods will increase (playing a winning hand). If I venture poorly, the value of my goods will decrease (playing a losing hand).
No one is forced to buy (entering the game is voluntary).
The “value add” is the risk taken by the initial purchaser. If the box sale flops, they’re left holding the bag... or box in this case. I’m not saying it’s wise. Gamblers fail every day. But that’s what it is. Gambling. Not moral or immoral.

What you do there is remove an item from the normal market and move it out of the reach of a lot of potential customers.

It depends.

I’m solidly against scalping, hence founding the loot group.

But, here it depends on how much they’re asking for. A small profit say, £20 across the lot? Not great, but not awful.

But when they’re trying to double their money they can just eff off.

Say hello to capitalism

Don't think its unethical.

Its just a function of supply and demand. Ultimately GW will stock break most things in this box (I know there have been a few exclusive models over the years) - but at a far higher price.

I mean lets say the box genuinely costs £120 (would be amazed tbh but it seems legit).
Well the Marine half alone is 5 characters and 4 kits. At regular GW prices (£20 a character, £30 a box), that half alone could retail at £220.

So what is the scalp? If someone were to offer you those Marine kits at £150 - you could say its clearly a massive rip off versus the whole Indomitus box being £120. But it would simultaneously be a massive discount versus buying them individually from GW if you had to pay £220.

If GW sells a limited volume product at a price far below what the market will bear, there is nothing unethical in buying it and then selling it to someone who will pay that far higher price. That may be bad for some people, who want the product at a low price, but by definition, a lot of people are going without, hence the willingness to pay a higher price. If say I was willing to pay someone £150 for the Marine half of the box - and my only other option was to go without - what unethical thing has occurred?

Ultimately the price the box will sell for - and so the uplift given to the scalpers/stockbreakers, is purely a function of this relationship. If Ebay etc is flooded with kits, they won't sell for very much. If however no one wants to sell them, the few people who do will make a large profit. See for example how unsuccessful the scalping of that Lumineth box is going.

Do it, if you can make profit, why wouldn't you?
Item is worth it as much as someone is willing to pay for it...especially when it comes to toy soldiers...because you are such a bad person for earning profit on some toy soldiers, which are totally not essential to anyone...yea, you are worse than Jeff Bezos...

Perfectly acceptable. If everyone agrees the price is too high, no-one will buy it and the price will naturally go down. If people are willing to pay the inflated price, well then that is the correct price for the product.

Simple supply and demand.

Buying with the intention of selling only a part of such a box would be scalping or not?

I collect both Necrons and SM but some of those units leave me indifferent (bikes, assault intercessors, eradicators) so I'll probably sell them.

 Aenar wrote:
Buying with the intention of selling only a part of such a box would be scalping or not?

I collect both Necrons and SM but some of those units leave me indifferent (bikes, assault intercessors, eradicators) so I'll probably sell them.

Scalping is purely when you buy an entire product with the intent to sell it on again at a profit.

Buying a multi-part product for one part and then selling on the rest isn't scalping unless you put an insanely high price on what you sell on.

 Overread wrote:

 Aenar wrote:
Buying with the intention of selling only a part of such a box would be scalping or not?

I collect both Necrons and SM but some of those units leave me indifferent (bikes, assault intercessors, eradicators) so I'll probably sell them.

Scalping is purely when you buy an entire product with the intent to sell it on again at a profit.

Buying a multi-part product for one part and then selling on the rest isn't scalping unless you put an insanely high price on what you sell on.

So basically everything sold is 'scalping' ...your LGS bought for example product which it then sells for profit.

 Overread wrote:

 Aenar wrote:
Buying with the intention of selling only a part of such a box would be scalping or not?

I collect both Necrons and SM but some of those units leave me indifferent (bikes, assault intercessors, eradicators) so I'll probably sell them.

Scalping is purely when you buy an entire product with the intent to sell it on again at a profit.

Buying a multi-part product for one part and then selling on the rest isn't scalping unless you put an insanely high price on what you sell on.

So is FLGS scalping? They bought the set and are selling it at higher price than they paid in full for profit.

This reminds me when I messaged an ebay seller to ask why they were selling a box of old sisters of battle box on Ebay for three times its retail price.

When that exact same box was currently in stock and available through GW to anyone that wanted it.

They never got back to me. Funny that.

There's a lot of mental gymnastics and people trying to pull logical gotchas here to justify something that has always been considered a gakky practice in every industry.

FLGS are retailers, they're offering the service of making a product available to locals. They're not scalping because no one else can buy at retailer rates, so they haven't stolen your opportunity to buy the box for that cost.

Scalpers aren't offering a service, they buy something so someone else can't, with the hope of then selling it to that same person for more money.

You want to be an donkey-cave and scalp then fine, but don't cry when everyone calls you an donkey-cave for doing it.

I didn't vote, but one of my four local shops was allocated 55 box sets. I don't think we will have much of a shortage.

It's not gambling, it's arbitrage, because there's essentially no risk to the reseller. Still nothing wrong with it, IMO. It's a luxury product. You should feel free to sell it for as much as people are willing to pay for it. If GW want to artificially limit the supply of their products, that's on them, not the resellers. The moral outrage I see directed at 'scalpers' (not just here but in society in general, e.g. towards 'ticket touts') has always made me roll my eyes. Ultimately, if you feel really strongly about it being some sort of scourge on society, you should lobby your government to ban the practise. Or complain to GW and ask them to stop artificially limiting supply. You probably won't get very far, but some governments have banned or limited the resale of sports match and events tickets, so it's apparently not a totally lost cause.

 Duskweaver wrote:
You probably won't get very far, but some governments have banned or limited the resale of sports match and events tickets, so it's apparently not a totally lost cause.

That's because it became a farce where the tickets were sold out within seconds for a match and then resellers were selling them online through the ticket vendors legitimate reseller website. Basically because there were no protections the scalpers took pretty much ALL the stock and then resold it. Meanwhile the ticket company selling had no reason to want to stop it because they basically got to profit twice from every ticket sale.


GW's scalping problem is FAR less of an issue typically. It's there and it has risen over hte years, but its nothing like the situation where the only way to get a box is through scalpers. I'd argue much of the stock going out of sale is going to gamers, its just that GW is not able or unwilling to take the risk to produce too much excess. Also a good few of their limited duel boxes are not true limited editions, but just short term limits. A year later (at worst) and the unique new models go up for individual sale anyway.

Scalping is an anti-concept.

There is nothing wrong/bad/immoral about scalping. Scalping is just a way for a third person to attempt to leverage morality into a trade they are not a part of so they can make those parties feel guilty about their actions in hopes the third person can get a better deal, punish them, etc. It's ethical manipulation.

The owner of Game Workshop sells an army box at $100 to retailers. The individual who owns a store buys it for $100 then resells it on a shelf for $150 bucks. Bob walks into the store and buys the army box for $150 bucks.

Bob resells the army box to a Jamal for $250 bucks. Jamal realizes the army box is no longer sold in stores and really wants the new models. Jamal agrees and buys the box for $250.

Jane witnesses the sale and calls Bob a scalper. Based on what, exactly? Jane is trying to make Bob feel UNEARNED guilt for being a good/moral person and trading with Jamal. There is no fraud here. Jamal is getting the entire box.

Scalping is an anti-concept designed to obliterate honest trade.

Whether you own some medicine, water, movie tickets or warhammer figures, that is your property, and you can trade that to whomever you want at any price you and the other party agree to. Unless you're advocating using force against a producer, which I know no one here does, right?

Or, is the owner of GW scalping everyone by selling a box of plastic that cost him 50 cents to make for $100?

In the end, to the Original Poster, never allow a collective to tell you how to think. They do so by leveraging morality against you and hoping to intact guilt on your part. Morality is objective. Once you feel guilty for something you shouldn't feel guilt for, you are easier to manipulate, and other people then take advantage of you changing your mind and lowering a price.

The box is yours. Sell it for $9,000,000 if you can, and know that you are a moral person for doing so.

There's a lot of different ways to look at this from a buyer and seller perspective:

Some people might only want one army (or part of one army) and just sell off the rest to offset some of the cost.

Some people will buy and sell either full sets or part units on when demand means more money.

Some people will buy these part units because they only want specific pieces, don't want to shell out for the whole set or couldn't get hold of it.

People will only pay as much as they believe something is worth. if someone sets the price too high, then it's probably not going to move unless it's the cheapest option and someone is willing to pay the cost. I see if fairly often browsing Ebay, someone will list a model kit (In the case I saw, the Master of Possessions) for a ridiculous amount and it just won't move at all.

Lol you can tell which people have "Libertarian" on their Twitter profiles.

Edit: posted that before I saw the Rand quote ahaha.