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In the Psychic Awakening Pariah book there is a reference to the return of Squats. Of course it may just be GW's nudge nudge wink wink and nothing comes of it.

There are squads in Necromunda. Right now its purely background fluffy stuff which hints that they could reappear one day. In truth they never formally got written out, they just were never produced not spoken of again. Fans came up with the idea that Tyranids ate them all and it sort of stuck as "unofficial lore" to explain their sudden vanishing.

| think its more of a reference than anything like the necromunda squat

 Overread wrote:
There are squads in Necromunda. Right now its purely background fluffy stuff which hints that they could reappear one day. In truth they never formally got written out, they just were never produced not spoken of again. Fans came up with the idea that Tyranids ate them all and it sort of stuck as "unofficial lore" to explain their sudden vanishing.

That's not a fan theory. That was the reason given in the preface to the reprint of the old Inquisitor novel.

The Pariah book gives passing reference to that or at least something like that as the broken communication excerpt made reference to them being supposedly extinct, yet clearly not as evidenced by their ship having disabled the Tech-Priest's ship.

This is like people trumpeting Fulgrim's return cause he makes guest appearances in PA narratives.

I think its just a bit of fun.

I'd be quite happy for them not to return, as they would be yet another Imperium faction, and their most obvious sort of niche is being occupied by AdMech.

I think they could do well as a former Imperium faction. You could use it to explain their absence - the Imperium abandoned them and labelled them mutants rather than abhumans and after X years fighting on the brink they're coming back as a xenos faction. Some could be solidly allied to Tau and others to Chaos or going it alone to provide some variation and there you go.

I agree with Pm713. If we’re ever getting Squats as an army, I expect them not being a part of the Imperium.

 Segersgia wrote:
I agree with Pm713. If we’re ever getting Squats as an army, I expect them not being a part of the Imperium.

I'd be down with that.

They are back as part of a Xeno faction, they have been for years.

Tyranids.

Their biomass had to go somewhere.

I wouldn't mind seeing another faction, but better done than "Dwarves in SPaaaaaaaace". But is there a gap for anything like them? Unless they boot firstborn or make them similar to SOB's I can't see them anywhere on the battlefield.

Mostly because they are too short.

pm713 wrote:
I think they could do well as a former Imperium faction. You could use it to explain their absence - the Imperium abandoned them and labelled them mutants rather than abhumans and after X years fighting on the brink they're coming back as a xenos faction. Some could be solidly allied to Tau and others to Chaos or going it alone to provide some variation and there you go.

Yeah definitely back as a Xenos faction.. possibly implied due to them disabling an imperium ship. interesting that the encounter was a ship- maybe a space borne faction now back from the fringes. Perhaps where they have been hiding to survive/return. I could see GW bring them back as they are the last heritage faction missing - they brought back cults and harlies. And they were hinting that more things are returning. After seeing how well they did the Kharadrons for AoS they could do something great with squats and I'd be very tempted, especially if they were Xenos rather than Imperium.

I believe in one of the interviews the Demiurg (allies of the Tau) are basically the squats returned in all but name. However like much of the xenos ideas of Tau I think they got sidelined simply because the mecha side of Tau proved overwhelmingly popular. Even Kroot haven't had a new model (for the army) or update in years and they at least got released.

The idea of Squats re-emerging as an opposition force would be fun.. although I simply don't see why they couldn't return as a specialist army unit much in the way Catachan's are released under the guise of IG.

Ogryns, Ratlings.. why not some Squats sprinkled in while were at it?

 Overread wrote:
I believe in one of the interviews the Demiurg (allies of the Tau) are basically the squats returned in all but name. However like much of the xenos ideas of Tau I think they got sidelined simply because the mecha side of Tau proved overwhelmingly popular. Even Kroot haven't had a new model (for the army) or update in years and they at least got released.

I was thinking they could merge the two .. squats become a space borne race . I think the tricky part would be finding them a niche play style among the rest of the armies. Visually there are no dwarf tropes in 40k - they never did anything other than a few ships for BFG so it would hit a spot
This just has me thinking of the Kharadron background - hiding out of sight rebuilding their forces and evolving into something new from a shatttered empire,

They could go with an interesting concept where they were partially attacked by Tyranids, genestealer cults etc but it fizzled out due to lack of biomass (the core is barren and the squats aren't many).

Their unique physiology makes them resistant to the psychic effect of the hive Mind and the patriarchs influence.

But now their populations are mutated, with Tyranid DNA but no connection to the hive Mind.

So now you can have squats AND an alien faction with a unique and interesting aesthetic and an opportunity to revitalise the squat army.

If they were to be brought back, I think the easiest way would be to simply be as the nomadic survivors of their former worlds. Their new strongholds are their spaceships and maybe a few new settlements on asteroids or isolated inhospitable mineral rich worlds. They are no longer Imperial as they feel they were abandoned in their hour of greatest need and now bear a grudge against all the races for not aiding them. There could be some bitter envy there too, at other races having far more inhabitable worlds. Though they live on harsh worlds as a defensive measure and for the resources, that does not mean they cannot simultaneously envy yet also look down on “softer” races living on worlds with thriving biospheres. Envy does not have to be logical.

I only see Squats coming back because GW want another army to sell as allies to Space Marine players based on meme potential.

However I think Demiurg are much more likely, probably with a throwaway line about them being very distant - or just rumoured - biological relations. It would also give GW a chance to flex their creative muscles a bit more than 'squater Imperial Guard'.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I only see Squats coming back because GW want another army to sell as allies to Space Marine players based on meme potential.

However I think Demiurg are much more likely, probably with a throwaway line about them being very distant - or just rumoured - biological relations. It would also give GW a chance to flex their creative muscles a bit more than 'squater Imperial Guard'.

After this long, I doubt people would object to Squats having a line rethink, with reinterpretations of some of their signature units, (Exo-armour, Bikes) and maybe some of the Epic stuff brought through to 40k (the Gyrocopter as a flier/VTOL, for example).

They would absolutely need more of their own identity rather than simple "tougher Imperial Guard", though I'm not sure, off-hand, what that would be.

I think that was part of the issue Squats had originally with GW. They were basically Imperial Guard just shorter in ethos and it seemed that no one in tehir design team really had a passion to take them anywhere else.

Squats have been gone so long the only ones left are passion projects by fans which on the market are a tiny influence. Basically GW releasing them now would have them as a whole new army. Heck most fans (even old time fans) likely don't recall a vast amount of Squat models from memory. So they could go in with very few preconceptions.

 Overread wrote:
I think that was part of the issue Squats had originally with GW. They were basically Imperial Guard just shorter in ethos and it seemed that no one in tehir design team really had a passion to take them anywhere else.

Squats have been gone so long the only ones left are passion projects by fans which on the market are a tiny influence. Basically GW releasing them now would have them as a whole new army. Heck most fans (even old time fans) likely don't recall a vast amount of Squat models from memory. So they could go in with very few preconceptions.

I still recall clearly what the Squats had. The problem was aside from the walking Faberge egg exo-armor suits that had integral power axes and bolters, the most distinctive Squat stuff was in Epic. Even then, most of their really unique stuff was in the form of superheavies like the Cyclops and Colossus, or unusual units like the Overlord blimp gunship or the strung out Land Train. Unfortunately these were rather gimmicky units that didn't really work with much synergy together. Their one real moment in the limelight was in an Epic battle report between Andy Chambers (as Orks) and Jervis Johnson that resulted in a decisive defeat for the Squats (and Yarrick) on Golgotha.

The problem was slow fortification like units that hurled long range artillery across Epic battlefields was not really suitable for a 40K scale battlefield. Most of their 40K scale stuff was Imperial Guard stuff. The Squats never had a chance to develop on the 40K scale before being dropped. However that means that any return of the Squats can be a total reinvention aside from the most basic themes.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I only see Squats coming back because GW want another army to sell as allies to Space Marine players based on meme potential.

However I think Demiurg are much more likely, probably with a throwaway line about them being very distant - or just rumoured - biological relations. It would also give GW a chance to flex their creative muscles a bit more than 'squater Imperial Guard'.

They could just be Squats by a different name. For example Demiurg is what they called themselves and squats is what the Imperium called them.

Squats is a name GW wanted to drop years ago as they shifted from the less strict and more jovial Rogue Trader into the darker more grim and serious 40K. Whilst I'm sure they'd get a new name they'd be Squats to old fans just like Imperial Guard are Astra whatevers

 Overread wrote:
I think that was part of the issue Squats had originally with GW. They were basically Imperial Guard just shorter in ethos and it seemed that no one in tehir design team really had a passion to take them anywhere else.

Squats have been gone so long the only ones left are passion projects by fans which on the market are a tiny influence. Basically GW releasing them now would have them as a whole new army. Heck most fans (even old time fans) likely don't recall a vast amount of Squat models from memory. So they could go in with very few preconceptions.

Yeah you'd hope that enough time has passed that GW would take them somewhere new, I never liked that shorter Guard side of things. For me Kharadron showed how they could do something fresh and interesting with the dwarf theme. They could keep the exosuit idea, hearth guard and a few others but there's enough to make them distinctive again. They have been absent both as a faction and as a model range for so long its pretty much a clean sheet.

 Overread wrote:
I think that was part of the issue Squats had originally with GW. They were basically Imperial Guard just shorter in ethos and it seemed that no one in tehir design team really had a passion to take them anywhere else.

Well, and the motorbikers, living ancestors, and mini-terminators.

Most of which have been eaten or carried on by other model lines.
I mean, we're still seeing the motorcycle fetish in the new releases, even though the current designers don't understand the engineering or physics behind bikes.

But you could make a very odd argument that the Squat army lives on in the GSC army, except for the terminators and the Epic superheavies. Bikers, cheap infantry, 'ancestors'
Though obviously most would feel unsatisfied trying to make squats out of stealers.

pm713 wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
I only see Squats coming back because GW want another army to sell as allies to Space Marine players based on meme potential.

However I think Demiurg are much more likely, probably with a throwaway line about them being very distant - or just rumoured - biological relations. It would also give GW a chance to flex their creative muscles a bit more than 'squater Imperial Guard'.

They could just be Squats by a different name. For example Demiurg is what they called themselves and squats is what the Imperium called them.

Demiurg are known within the Imperium for traveling throughout the Segmentum Ultima and originate from the Eastern Fringe, not the Core. If tyour scenario was the case, an Imperial vessel attacked by the Demiurg, they wouldn't emphasize that the race attacking them was supposed to be extinct.

I think it’s an easy sell, the squats told the imperium about the tyranids but diverted all their forces to defend non ab-humans. Squats are furious about the bigotry and being left to be eaten by nids

Now they are out for revenge using super tech.

What I don’t want to see is axes and gyrocopters. Something really unique would be a refreshing change to primaris fatigue

Well Ornithropters are already in the game.

Axes would be a given but they'd likely be chain and power and laser axes and such. I think the big key would be making them very distinctive compared to the Imperial Guard.

 Overread wrote:
Well Ornithropters are already in the game.

Axes would be a given but they'd likely be chain and power and laser axes and such. I think the big key would be making them very distinctive compared to the Imperial Guard.

I will accept laser axes

 Overread wrote:
There are squads in Necromunda. Right now its purely background fluffy stuff which hints that they could reappear one day. In truth they never formally got written out, they just were never produced not spoken of again. Fans came up with the idea that Tyranids ate them all and it sort of stuck as "unofficial lore" to explain their sudden vanishing.

From memory (this is going back a bit now) there was an extremely insensitive letter written in White Dwarf (I don't know by which developer or White Dwarf staff writer) basically saying yes they were eaten by Tyranids and yes they didn't fit and lol (or something along those lines). It was basically a big middle finger to anyone that had collected the army, hoped for their return, and I think was quite misguided.

Years later Jervis Johnson struck a far more conciliatory tone and wrote about what actually had happened - I'll see if I can find it. Basically - it wasn't so much that it was a conscious choice to write them out of 3rd edition, more that they couldn't find a theme and style that fit the setting (acknowledging that the development within Epic had been far more defined) and there were other projects more worthy of attention. Eventually the world and 40k moved on.

What is true is that for many years this kind of weird Orwellian group-think overtook both GW (or parts of it) and the most ardent fans in their view towards Squats. This extended from being banned from the official GW forums if you mentioned Squats (this happened to me, and there was an actual rule in their terms of service warning against their mention!) through to things like the Ian Watson books removed from sale for some years (they later re-appeared with aforementioned preface and Grimm's the Squats character being replaced).* This quickly moved to a ban on their miniatures being used as 'counts as' (again - I can kind of understand, as the miniatures weren't on sale any more, but just seemed a bit overly aggressive). But overall a kind of sneering, nasty condescension towards Squats and Squat players that I don't think I've ever seen in any other part of the hobby.
Even for fans of WHFB (which in essence was 'squatted', and shows really GW didn't learn much from the squatting of Squats, as they did the same to a much larger group of veteran hobbyists!) at least the common regard for the game and its players has remained.

*I don't know if this was related to Ian Watson personally (if something happened with the business relationship) or just part of aforementioned group-think. I did hear a story (you never know if this is true..) of Ian Watson's daughter being kicked out of a GW premise some years ago when she said who she was. Really weird.

I think if we see anything from the Squats this edition it'll be rather like Custodes - sort of a minifaction primarily intended for allied play, but possible to just about run as an army.

And I'd be cool with that. A few characters, a basic troops unit and a heavy one, maybe some kind of bike unit and some artillery would be a cool foundation.