Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If Primaris sell like crazy then all another big firm has to do is make Ultra Trooper Marines. Or any other name, the concept of a bulky heavily armoured warrior from space with a big gun is not something GW can stop anyone else making.

Bigger firms that are happy to use overseas factories for cheaper production can easily flood the market with a new wargame with similar design ethos; same scale and prices half as much or less.

They also have access to way more marketing potential - GW does a lot of marketing, but it relies heavily on stores and word of mouth to get people into their marketing system itself. Big toy brands can put up posters on every bus; tie it to a new film or animation series; advertise on the TV etc.... They can advertise way more than GW.

If they can out advertise and outprice GW then they can have a big chance to steal a good portion of the "new" customers. Meanwhile if their product is just as good and cheaper they'd likely start cutting their way into the current market as counts-as replacements.

Basically all they need is to do what Epic Game Stores have done - be aggressive in the early phase and perhaps run several loss leaders with a long term view that once they've "stolen" the market they keep it. Just like how GW does right now another bigger firm could push in.


Of course GW wouldn't die, but chances are they might see growth stagnate heavily and in the long term would see problems trying to grow their brand.


In the end we've seen this happening at the small scale, its just that garage casters and small startup firms can't generate vast capital at the start to get off to a flying start. Even with KS they can't afford mass marketing. They mostly chip away at the current market that GW built itself.



That said I think that projections show that its more proiftable for them to simply stick with their current market of toys rather than push into miniature wargames where the market is smaller and where it does likely require more of an initial big gamble to push in and take a serious slice of the pie.

 Overread wrote:
That said I think that projections show that its more proiftable for them to simply stick with their current market of toys rather than push into miniature wargames where the market is smaller and where it does likely require more of an initial big gamble to push in and take a serious slice of the pie.

I was wondering when someone would note that. Yes, the big boys could bury GW, but GW is too small for them to bother. The investment is almost certainly too high for the prize.

 alextroy wrote:

 Overread wrote:
That said I think that projections show that its more proiftable for them to simply stick with their current market of toys rather than push into miniature wargames where the market is smaller and where it does likely require more of an initial big gamble to push in and take a serious slice of the pie.

I was wondering when someone would note that. Yes, the big boys could bury GW, but GW is too small for them to bother. The investment is almost certainly too high for the prize.

GW has a market value of £2b. They are hardly "small". Niche maybe, but not small.

Also, are we forgetting that Hasbro IS in the Miniatures market with D&D?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

 Overread wrote:
That said I think that projections show that its more proiftable for them to simply stick with their current market of toys rather than push into miniature wargames where the market is smaller and where it does likely require more of an initial big gamble to push in and take a serious slice of the pie.

I was wondering when someone would note that. Yes, the big boys could bury GW, but GW is too small for them to bother. The investment is almost certainly too high for the prize.

GW has a market value of £2b. They are hardly "small". Niche maybe, but not small.

All things are relative.

GW is small compared to the entertainment megagiants.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Also, are we forgetting that Hasbro IS in the Miniatures market with D&D?

Yes and they are very good quality. because it is RPG related it is more of a direct competition with reaper miniatures. although reapers line is far more expansive in the size of their product line and universe settings.

If you were Hasbro/Bandai whatever, you'd buy GW. You wouldn't want an expensive war that potentially wipes out the value of the sector.
Because it might all go back to 2012 and being collectively worth three doughnuts.

Martel732 wrote:
If Bandai got into this market, they'd run GW out of business easily.

Were that the case, the model companies already producing far higher-quality kits at lower prices than GW's toylike vehicles would have driven GW out of business long ago.

But most people aren't buying just for the models. They're buying for the game, the community, and the IP. You don't go buy a Leman Russ because it's a great model kit; you buy a Leman Russ because it's a Leman Russ and the local shop won't let you play 40K with a Hasegawa King Tiger.

 catbarf wrote:

But most people aren't buying just for the models. They're buying for the game, the community, and the IP.

you know, a lot of people here have told me something different, they only buy because of the models, the game does not matter and the community is whatever the local club plays

and they don't play other games because of the models. they don't even want to try other games or rules unless they can use the cool models from GW

therefore, if another company comes up with cooler models than GW people will go for it

and they don't play other games because of the models. they don't even want to try other games or rules unless they can use the cool models from GW

That's kinda sad, since many of the other game systems out there are quite good, better written in fact than many from GW.

The thing i always hear is actually a resistance to buy more minis/start new armies for another system they have to learn. some players who even play other systems if you give them the minis to use will still go buy the GW stuff first since it is their main or only game and the easiest one to find a game for.

 catbarf wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If Bandai got into this market, they'd run GW out of business easily.

Were that the case, the model companies already producing far higher-quality kits at lower prices than GW's toylike vehicles would have driven GW out of business long ago.

But most people aren't buying just for the models. They're buying for the game, the community, and the IP. You don't go buy a Leman Russ because it's a great model kit; you buy a Leman Russ because it's a Leman Russ and the local shop won't let you play 40K with a Hasegawa King Tiger.

Yup. The inertia GW has makes their market presence extremely difficult to shift. Hasbro could make high quality not-marines for less money and large numbers of customers would still buy GW, to say nothing of all the other armies. The claim that they could "easily" run GW into the ground is not backed up by the realities of the market, as the original proponents of the statement admitted above.

see my other, longer answer
this would depend on the market and the IP used

they can, just not in the US or Europe were the GW Store is the main thing to get the game going

Asia, GW would not have a chance if Hasbro or Bandai wanted to compete with them

Yeah, it isn't "the main thing to get the game going" in the US.

Not even a damn chance. You're actively looked down on if you play at a GW around where I live. You're seen as nothing but a "sheeple" in some instances, with people claiming you have more money than sense or that you're a "trust fund kid".

It's honestly kinda funny.

If I understand correctly, if you play at a GW store, people look down on you
but if you play a GW game somewhere else they do not?


yet I did not say that people need to play at the GW store, but their stores is what get their games going

GW won't be were they are now without their own stores dedicated to the GW hobby advertising the game to the crowed passing by

 aphyon wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Also, are we forgetting that Hasbro IS in the Miniatures market with D&D?

Yes and they are very good quality. because it is RPG related it is more of a direct competition with reaper miniatures. although reapers line is far more expansive in the size of their product line and universe settings.

Hasbro is in fact NOT in the D&D minis business. They currently license that out to WizKids. And to a smaller degree GaleForce Nine for the resin stuff.

 kodos wrote:
If I understand correctly, if you play at a GW store, people look down on you
but if you play a GW game somewhere else they do not?


yet I did not say that people need to play at the GW store, but their stores is what get their games going

GW won't be were they are now without their own stores dedicated to the GW hobby advertising the game to the crowed passing by

Except they don't, not here in the US. GW stores are the rarity while independents aren't...and people looooooooove to find ways to thumb their nose at GW whether valid or not while still giving them money via independents.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 kodos wrote:
If I understand correctly, if you play at a GW store, people look down on you
but if you play a GW game somewhere else they do not?


yet I did not say that people need to play at the GW store, but their stores is what get their games going

GW won't be were they are now without their own stores dedicated to the GW hobby advertising the game to the crowed passing by

Except they don't, not here in the US. GW stores are the rarity while independents aren't...and people looooooooove to find ways to thumb their nose at GW whether valid or not while still giving them money via independents.

Exactly. The nearest GW store is about 50 miles away from me (and counting traffic etc it's at least an hour & a half drive). Meanwhile? Within 15 miles & about as many minutes of drive time there's at least 6 independents (3 of whom I'd give $ to).

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

 Overread wrote:
That said I think that projections show that its more proiftable for them to simply stick with their current market of toys rather than push into miniature wargames where the market is smaller and where it does likely require more of an initial big gamble to push in and take a serious slice of the pie.

I was wondering when someone would note that. Yes, the big boys could bury GW, but GW is too small for them to bother. The investment is almost certainly too high for the prize.

GW has a market value of £2b. They are hardly "small". Niche maybe, but not small.

GW's market capitalization is the wrong figure to use.

GW had Fiscal Year 2019 net sales of £256.574 Million ($326.62 Million in today's dollars)
Hasbro had Fiscal Year 2019 net sales of $4,720.2 million
Bandai had Fiscal Year 2019 net sales of ¥732.3 billion ($6,852.83 Million in today's dollars)

While not apples strictly comparative numbers (I didn't adjust them for reporting date $ and then move them all to current $) this illustrates that both Hasbro and Bandai are an order of magnitude larger than GW. If they wanted to steal GW's market, I'm sure they could. I just doubt it would be worth the cost to gain between 5% to 10% sales (assuming they got all of GW's revenue).

It would make less sense to steal the market than it would to just buy them.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It would make less sense to steal the market than it would to just buy them.

You can't buy a company that doesn't want to be bought though. I'm no expert, but from what I've read over the years GW seems to have taken precautions to prevent hostile take-overs and has no intentions of selling either.

Yeah, but throw enough money around and things happen.

 catbarf wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If Bandai got into this market, they'd run GW out of business easily.

Were that the case, the model companies already producing far higher-quality kits at lower prices than GW's toylike vehicles would have driven GW out of business long ago.

But most people aren't buying just for the models. They're buying for the game, the community, and the IP. You don't go buy a Leman Russ because it's a great model kit; you buy a Leman Russ because it's a Leman Russ and the local shop won't let you play 40K with a Hasegawa King Tiger.

Exactly my thoughts. I've used Scibor for some character models for my fantasy armies but that is a rare exception. Even that I stopped doing because the new dwarfs are way too big compared to GW. I had some older models from them that was pretty close to GW scale, now their dwarfs heroies are almost the size of Space Marines. You would never see me using a whole army from a different manufacturer, it's just not my things. I don't really care if others do though, I don't get too hung up on my opponents using "counts as" models.