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What do you think about a Standard Battlewagon, ard case and Deff rolla with 5 saw meganobz and 10 gretchin inside.

Seems highly likely the battlewagon will get destroyed, so take the destroyed losses on the Gretchin then you can disembark the Gretchin out in front of the meganobz hopefully and Grot shield them from further harm.

That could work, but I wouldn't count on the grot shields actually doing anything meaningful.

I have been finding it difficult to get my desired redundancy with the meganobz while also protecting them and having a delivery system.

The minimum 3 squads of meganobz squeeze into places easier, but I feel they are just short of critical mass, plus the hit em harder stratagem is less effective on 3 dudes.

Then if you use one huge unit they get focused fired out too easily and more effected by blast.

Taking a bad vehicle destroyed result on a Trukk or wagon with only meganobz inside is so painful.

Bigdoza wrote:
What do you think about a Standard Battlewagon, ard case and Deff rolla with 5 saw meganobz and 10 gretchin inside.

Seems highly likely the battlewagon will get destroyed, so take the destroyed losses on the Gretchin then you can disembark the Gretchin out in front of the meganobz hopefully and Grot shield them from further harm.

For +35-40 points you could field 10 boyz instead. No Grot Shield but they can support the Meganobz in some fight. I'm playing this combination in my current list.

Putting Gretchins near the action doesn't look a good solution, unless maybe large squads.

Bigdoza wrote:
I have been finding it difficult to get my desired redundancy with the meganobz while also protecting them and having a delivery system.

The minimum 3 squads of meganobz squeeze into places easier, but I feel they are just short of critical mass, plus the hit em harder stratagem is less effective on 3 dudes.

Then if you use one huge unit they get focused fired out too easily and more effected by blast.

Taking a bad vehicle destroyed result on a Trukk or wagon with only meganobz inside is so painful.

For wagon's I've been tempted to pad them with 5 Kommandos rather than grots. cheaper for a minimal squad and you can hide a powerklaw in there for same cost of grots if you want.

Bigdoza wrote:
What do you think about a Standard Battlewagon, ard case and Deff rolla with 5 saw meganobz and 10 gretchin inside.

Seems highly likely the battlewagon will get destroyed, so take the destroyed losses on the Gretchin then you can disembark the Gretchin out in front of the meganobz hopefully and Grot shield them from further harm.

Problem is 10-casualties ain't no good shield. Opponent will simply delete grots and point anti tank guns to meganobs

10 boys + 4-5 Mega Nobs + wagon is totally gonna be a thing.

Save 65 points on the trukk, you have ablative wounds if the wagon is popped, and the Nob can take double saw, which makes him just as good as the Mega Nobs in CC.

Meganobz works decent in 5MAN squads. One such squad tears down Landrider. Bigger seems to be overpowered and hard to fit in buildings. Plus blast rule of course.

MANs + transport of any kind do not work. For many reasons. First of all - they come to CC no earlier than T3 due disemabrk on the beginning of the movement phase. Too late for such mass of power and points + easy to be outmanouevret. Grots in BW with meganobz works fine, but like causalities to die during explosion etc. Because BW with MAN is nice example of distraction carnifex so it dies T1 or T2.

I tried to make them work a lot of times and they work in 2 ways depending on situation
- Da Jump / Tellyport
- march with moto warboss for advance + charge

In any case like evil sunz. Because fast is their main problem. You can have a super strong cc unit, but if you are not able to get them to cc in T2, you play them wrong. And ES MANs have a thread range sbout 18,5”. And in any case 2-3 squads.

Btw. I'm not so sure, double killsaw MANs are better than PK +KS even after point drop. Because you can be pretty sure, you fail some charge. At least one of the squads will come to CC in T3. Double killsaw MANs are uselles for 3 turns. PK MANs damage the scouts and GEQ etc at least = 20shots with 18” range kills 2-3 almost every time. Nothing to write home about, but it saves me the objective VP almost every game. With 3 squads = one GEQ squad of 10 dead every turn = one objecitive cleared. It' s more versatile. But hard to judge. Need to be tested.

With the smaller table size, battlewagon max move + advance and maybe even a charge t1 with deffrolla if there is a Wartrike you really dont think the meganobz would land anywhere relevant until turn 3?

Transports work a lot better, as you can usually expect to disembark and charge in T2. The new missions really force your opponent to get outside their deployment zone, otherwise they lose on primaries.

Sadly, that also means I need to find a new signature

tulun wrote:
Chinorks currently deep strike for free. The fact they can be seen behind terrain is largely irrelevant imo.

I think the Eradicators are going to make a major splash. Points going up means hyper point efficient units matter... these are ridiculously point efficient for what they do.

Definitely better in certain chapters. Like Ravenguard, which can give them proper deep strike, or even like White Scars, because they can fully advance and shoot without penalty.

*shrug* I guess as orks I'm just not particularly worried about it. Like I said, Fire Dragons are basically the same unit - slightly easier to screen, maybe, easier to kill, definitely, and the very small amount of damage they get as a trade off probably isn't that big a deal. But they deal like... 6 damage to a vehicle under a KFF. Less to a trukk because ramshackle will clown on them hard.

As an ork player I'd much rather see a squad of eradicators across the table than a squad of plasma cannon devs next to a CM. Probably more annoying to kill (because I will likely be smacking both with rokkits and those pop the eradicators instantly and the eradicators are more likely to be in easy range/less likely to be in cover), do their damage T1 AND T2 instead of being in reserves T1, and they have blast so if I've got a large squad of something they have the flexibility to get a little more mileage with max shots un-overcharged.

Yeah, transports being useless is a bad take. 9th is not 8th edition.

Mega Nobs will easily be hitting combat turn 2 in a wagon. If they aren't, and your opponent turtles in their deployment zone, congrats, you've scored 45 on primaries and you're probably gonna win anyway.

And there's no way the PK/KS combo is better. For 2 more points, my Mega nobs can sweep primaris because of consistent damage and a bonus attack? And can go to flat 3 damage for 1 CP? Yes please.

Not to mention the AP4 means no lucky 6's on those pesky 3+ save models.

I've had both happen in droves. Cause 3-5 PK wounds, bastard rolls 2-3 6s. I roll for damage, roll mostly 1 on the D3.
Killsaws are superior, there is no way 20 18" S4 AP0 shots at BS5+ are going to offset the massive boon that is killsaw pairs. I'd be surprised if the 20pts you saved doing this actually mattered too, i'd suspect it to just go into more random grots to fill the list out.
PKs are terrible. The only reason we used them in 8th was because we kinda had no choice. The only other option we had was AP1, because Stabbas were a joke and Killsaws were overpriced previously.

Every model that can use a Saw is now using one for me. My area isnt really strict on wysiwyg so all my nobz with pk counting as saws is fine long as i dont mix'm.

I still think I will be putting a single rokkit/PK nob in my MANz units whenever I'm playing death skulls. Can't let those shooting phase re-rolls go to waste, and I can re-roll damage on the one PK when needed

I think we also have to keep this in mind:

You can kill 0 models with a unit and they can win you the game. If the enemy is scared of charging an objective because you have 5 angry Mega Nobs on it, and they haven't killed anything by the time they get shot off, you win.

Judge a unit by their ability to score you VPs. The enemy is going to be charging objectives in the middle... give me an extra Kill saw any day over 1.33 hits on a 4 shot Shoota. :\


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
I still think I will be putting a single rokkit/PK nob in my MANz units whenever I'm playing death skulls. Can't let those shooting phase re-rolls go to waste, and I can re-roll damage on the one PK when needed

That's actually a decent idea.

tulun wrote:
I think we also have to keep this in mind:

You can kill 0 models with a unit and they can win you the game. If the enemy is scared of charging an objective because you have 5 angry Mega Nobs on it, and they haven't killed anything by the time they get shot off, you win.

Judge a unit by their ability to score you VPs. The enemy is going to be charging objectives in the middle...

Along these lines I really feel the burna bomma will be useful from a psychological standpoint. If they had held back in their deployment and group up so the plane has no where to land they arent claiming obj in board center. Was watchin game with Nick N vs orks and his whole movement seemed very burna bommer minded.

Even if plane does nothing it messed their head all up.

 Jidmah wrote:
I still think I will be putting a single rokkit/PK nob in my MANz units whenever I'm playing death skulls. Can't let those shooting phase re-rolls go to waste, and I can re-roll damage on the one PK when needed

valid argument i totally spaced off. I already put the random rokkit in my trukkboyz for this reason so why not spend 8pts more and have the MANz do it too.
Unfortunately the way they exchange for Killsaws i dont think you can still have a saw on the rokkit nob. I'd have to doublecheck the codex which i dont have handy atm.

And yeah, psychological warfare is as valid as actual killing. Its what i used MANZ Missiles for in the past, i'd take 2 and flank. Back then they were lethal enough to justify attacking but were cheap enough where people really didnt want to. I never expected them to do much, i wanted them to mess with my opponent's priorities.

You'd have to go down to a PK/KS to take the rocket.

On net, though, it's only 5 points more than a Double Saw Mega Nob. 5 points to add a full re-roll rocket ain't a bad idea.

I don't think it's the worst idea, but you are also losing out on a point of AP and, more importantly, an extra attack.

Yeah but assuming that nob fires twice it definitely offsets the loss of 1 attack and giving marines a 6+ for the 1-2 melee wounds he yields. Plus, not like the reroll damage is used elsewhere either

gmaleron wrote:

-x1 Battlewagon
*w/ Deffrolla, Killkannon, Grot Riggers

I see Da Boomer showing up a fair bit in posts.

Bigdoza wrote:What do you think about a Standard Battlewagon, ard case and Deff rolla with 5 saw meganobz and 10 gretchin inside.

Seems highly likely the battlewagon will get destroyed, so take the destroyed losses on the Gretchin then you can disembark the Gretchin out in front of the meganobz hopefully and Grot shield them from further harm.

I quite like the standard BW because it can take Da Boomer with the Kannon upgrade and still has the Open Topped and playing Freebooterz that appeals to me. OR just not Da Boomer and maintain the Open Topped rule.

I just heard on a podcast GW has said no Vigilus detachments. is that true?

Dont run killkannons on regular wagons.
Remember it nukes the capacity to 12. But on gunwagon or bonebreakers it doesnt reduce it further.
Kannon if deffskullz are just fine.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah but assuming that nob fires twice it definitely offsets the loss of 1 attack and giving marines a 6+ for the 1-2 melee wounds he yields. Plus, not like the reroll damage is used elsewhere either

Adding a random rocket that has full re-rolls (Hit and wound) is just so good to Death skull units. It makes it so consistent, especially because we can spam them.

If I had spare points generally on my DS characters, I'd toss them on there. If it even kills 1 model, it'll make back its points and then some. Like it one shots an Aggressor or eradicator. Or even just that extra push to bracket a vehicle.

Very glad to hear that transports have a good chance this edition. Once I've repaired all of them, I think I have more transport capacity than infantry models in my army...

Okay, so this may be silly and need someone to tell me to stop it.

Grot Mega Tanks can get 7 KMB shots, rr 1s with grot mobs, t6 9w 4+/6++ all for around 160 points.

That's... not bad right? Would killa kans be better ROI? Just exploring.

I love the grot mega tank but it's not great, if I'm being honest. Getting it with 7KMB and grot mobs is probably the best build for it assuming you actually have something else you want to put in that detachment. I'd argue it's still nowhere near worth it because it's no tougher than a skrapjet yet cost 50 more points but more importantly is weirdly slow and you can no longer use a CP to reroll that mutiny roll.

It's a fun, super charming unit but it's also something that's suited for crusade games and more fluffy lists where you could arguably squeeze one in at semi-competitive. I just don't understand how GW thinks that chassis is worth 95 points.

Vineheart01 wrote:Dont run killkannons on regular wagons.
Remember it nukes the capacity to 12. But on gunwagon or bonebreakers it doesnt reduce it further.
Kannon if deffskullz are just fine.

That's only if you wanted 20 to be transported and don't care about losing the Open Topped rule which I explained.

weaver9 wrote:Okay, so this may be silly and need someone to tell me to stop it.

Grot Mega Tanks can get 7 KMB shots, rr 1s with grot mobs, t6 9w 4+/6++ all for around 160 points.

That's... not bad right? Would killa kans be better ROI? Just exploring.

I've been thinking about Grot Mega Tanks, Grot Tanks and Meka Dreadz. Make use of the FW I own... Superskorcha Big Trakk too maybe could be descent.

This is the time to explore a vehicle meta

only time i'd say the grot mega tank is a good pick is if you are running Goffs+GrotMobz
Scrapjet is better in cost, durability, and doesnt nuke itself sometimes in exchange for less potential damage (i think its overall roughly the same though, given Grotmobz cant reroll the D6 you can easily get shafted on the damage while the Scrapjet is fixed damage)

In 8th i ran 2 of them with 8 grottanks and 6 killakanz and it was amusingly effective but....pricehykes on subpar units...gotta love it

The big FW model ive been eyeing as of now is Bigtrakks w/ Supakannons. Theyre 150pts....for a table-long 2D6 S8 AP2 flat3 damage gun lol...yeah theyre not much harder to pop than a Trukk but they got the reach to avoid most of the painful guns.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

The big FW model ive been eyeing as of now is Bigtrakks w/ Supakannons. Theyre 150pts....for a table-long 2D6 S8 AP2 flat3 damage gun lol...yeah theyre not much harder to pop than a Trukk but they got the reach to avoid most of the painful guns.

I believe they are 155 because they currently have to take Grot Riggers.

Honestly? I think the only choice for Big Trakks is the Supa Skorcha. they keep 6 capacity, and average 8 24" Str 6 AP-2 1 damage HITS a turn... And they are pushing the centre with models inside too.

It's 30 more points but I think it brings value.

The Supa kannon averages 7 BS5+ shots a turn... like, with DS re-rolls maybe 3 hits? That seems a lot for 155 points and they drop capacity to 0. The gunwagon does it better at 175 with periscope on a much better body while retaining capacity.

I think if you want long range shooting, just take 4 mek guns instead.

I'm looking at running a Deathskull MANz/boys in BWs list, and I'm torn on my HQ choices.

Ghaz is hugely expensive, will have to run up the board on his own, and won't benefit from the kulture.

Weirdboy won't have much to cast his powers on if stuff is all in wagons, but might be able to throw some MANz forward late game or if a wagon eats it.

KFF Mek is gonna get neutered to not work in melee.

Warboss is looking good, but will have to hitch a ride in a wagon. Probably going to run a boss.

Wartrikes are very squishy and don't hit as hard as I would necessarily like.


What works well in a mechanised BW list?

:EDIT:
For context, the list otherwise is very much a WIP and at the moment going to be;