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I'm contemplating 3 x 5 flashgits in trukks with 2-wound models around the corner (that said, I normally face primaris so I should be thinking of this anyway!). I've had success in 8th with 7 gits in a trukk, turn 1 aim for central cover, turn 2+ sit and shoot. If the trukk pops, loot it for a 3+ save, 2+ in cover. bonus points for objectives!

I'm thinking 3 units of 5 in trukks would help with board control, and they're remarkably resilient - when the trukk pops, they become primaris with better guns, and they do fairly well in 5-man squads. I'm probably going to roll with shooting units and go freeboota to maximise the kultures usefulness. Morkanaught, SAG mek (they are pretty good for killing something, usually), boomer gunwagon, shoota boys... it's sounding like fun to me!

Flash gits aren't terrible units, but instead of a trukk full of flash gits (225 points), you could just get two scrapjets or SJD.

Also keep in mind that the kaptin's gitfinda no longer stacks with the freeboota culture.

Just threw a list together for a freebootas trial, which came in at about 1500 points:



having 3 chinorks suddenly descend with flashgitz firepower would be pretty cool. Never run minimum flashgits mobs though, so I might have to lessen the boys to increase the gitz. I only have 7 glashgits right now, and no chinorks, so there's some building to do before I can try this!

 some bloke wrote:
I'm contemplating 3 x 5 flashgits in trukks with 2-wound models around the corner (that said, I normally face primaris so I should be thinking of this anyway!). I've had success in 8th with 7 gits in a trukk, turn 1 aim for central cover, turn 2+ sit and shoot. If the trukk pops, loot it for a 3+ save, 2+ in cover. bonus points for objectives!

I'm thinking 3 units of 5 in trukks would help with board control, and they're remarkably resilient - when the trukk pops, they become primaris with better guns, and they do fairly well in 5-man squads. I'm probably going to roll with shooting units and go freeboota to maximise the kultures usefulness. Morkanaught, SAG mek (they are pretty good for killing something, usually), boomer gunwagon, shoota boys... it's sounding like fun to me!

I play similar stuff as well, mostly DS for my buggies but i use Flash Gitz a lot and sometimes run freebooterz.
What i found to be a good way to protect them is to drive the Trukk / Gunwaggon near a ruin with just a tiny piece looking around the corner, shoot and if the transport gets popped i can disembark outside LOS if there is lots of enemy firepower left. That means moving the gitz next turn but has often saved them. If there is no serious firepower / charging stuff left in the shooting phase, i disembark more aggressive with the goal to get my BS4+ next turn.
Even with a 3+ after lootin`they are not that resilient sadly. If i run a KFF they get a 5++ sometimes if he babysits the waggon, but still, turns in which i loose 500 points with 10 Gits + transport hurt a lot and there are enough armies that can fokus them down.
Playing my Naut(s) und buggies agressive has helped them a bit to survive tough.

Too bad the Gitz got quite a price hike, but i am way to stubborn not to use them anymore. The new tables and missions have actually helped them, they get to shoot without moving more often now. And that D2 is gold.
Mek Guns and Dakkajets are great to trigger the culture as well, if you want to go full freebooters.
Have to admit, it`s hard to justify taking a Dakkajet over the Bomber - might not be the best choice but i used it to trigger the culture for (shockjumping) buggies.

Jidmah wrote:Also keep in mind that the kaptin's gitfinda no longer stacks with the freeboota culture.

You can still get use out of it, if you need to move but can keep your Captin on a 3+ on the go.
Also shotgun on the ammorunt with him. ^^

also gotta remember that for some stupid reason rules dont affect the unit inside at ALL now.
Kaptin doesnt get +1 to hit and the chance to fire twice doesnt go off either while embarked. Freeboota aura works because of opentopped of course.

Still recommending people send in emails about that. It feels like a very shorthanded way to deny any aura, active ability, or stratagem from affecting the unit inside and accidentally removed literally all rules.

Yeah, I'm of the opinion gits' badness is quite a bit offset by the hugely ridiculously common prevalence of space marines everywhere. If 90% of games you play are against marines, ad all marines are gonna be W2, gits are gonna be at least OK, even if theyre not technically the MOST efficient way to get D2 on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
also gotta remember that for some stupid reason rules dont affect the unit inside at ALL now.
Kaptin doesnt get +1 to hit and the chance to fire twice doesnt go off either while embarked. Freeboota aura works because of opentopped of course.

Still recommending people send in emails about that. It feels like a very shorthanded way to deny any aura, active ability, or stratagem from affecting the unit inside and accidentally removed literally all rules.

I have seen literally nobody playing with this interpretation of the rule. So, I guess, YMMV there.

Gruxz wrote:
Apparently auspex tactics stated that all armies get an faq when the SM and necron codex drops. I hope to god that is true. That would take the sting out the old codexes.

But that might be just regarding the imperium armies.

From the warhammer community article (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/):

"Alien Weaponry
‘But what about my lovely xenos army?’ we hear you cry. Don’t worry – your weaponry will get the same treatment! While most of their wargear may not be as ubiquitous as the Imperium’s mass-produced arsenal, their weapons will also be looked at too, when each of their codexes comes around."

The only FAQ will apply to Imperium wide weapons. IE: A flamer on a guard is the same as a flamer on a Space Marine. We have to wait.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, I'm of the opinion gits' badness is quite a bit offset by the hugely ridiculously common prevalence of space marines everywhere. If 90% of games you play are against marines, ad all marines are gonna be W2, gits are gonna be at least OK, even if theyre not technically the MOST efficient way to get D2 on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
also gotta remember that for some stupid reason rules dont affect the unit inside at ALL now.
Kaptin doesnt get +1 to hit and the chance to fire twice doesnt go off either while embarked. Freeboota aura works because of opentopped of course.

Still recommending people send in emails about that. It feels like a very shorthanded way to deny any aura, active ability, or stratagem from affecting the unit inside and accidentally removed literally all rules.

I have seen literally nobody playing with this interpretation of the rule. So, I guess, YMMV there.

I too have never seen it played that a units abilities don't work in vehicles - though any "within X inches" abilities don't work, as they aren't on the battlefield. However, it will be something which I will have to prepare for if I go to tournaments!

Friendly games by all means ignore it, i am as like i said its a very obvious oversight. Its also an oversight that literally only affects orks, as only eldar/darkeldar have opentopped transports besides orks and they lack any rules that would actually be affected by this (what they do have specifically mentions in a transport)

Tournaments, its in the rules and is very clear so dont expect to get to use it unless you contact the TO first about it. This is, after all, a competitive talk thread so tournaments are in mind.

I gotta be honest, I still don't really see the case for Flash Gits when you basically get 2 tankbustas for every FG you bring. Sure, worse BS but they can move and shoot without penalty and flat 3DMG is going to be a lot tastier against the new terminator statline etc (not to mention they're great against tanks).

PiñaColada wrote:
I gotta be honest, I still don't really see the case for Flash Gits when you basically get 2 tankbustas for every FG you bring. Sure, worse BS but they can move and shoot without penalty and flat 3DMG is going to be a lot tastier against the new terminator statline etc (not to mention they're great against tanks).

So 5 Flash Gits (with Kaptin) is 160 points. 10 TB is 170.

If both are hitting at normal BS (we'll ignore explosions as it's a static boost for both anyway)

4 Flash gits: 12 shots, 6 hit, 4 wound, 2.67 dead Primaris.
Kaptin: 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, .89 dead primaris.
Grand total: 3.56 dead Primaris. (At -1 to hit due to moving this is: 1.795 + .673 = 2.468 dead primaris)

Then they can try to shoot twice on a 6.

Tankbustas:
10 shots, 3.333 hit, 2.76 wound, 1.85 dead primaris.

So Flash gits are cheaper, and better PER point if both are hitting at normal BS against Primaris AND even at -1 to hit. God forbid the tanbustas get -1 to hit.

Flash gits are expensive, but they really, really shred PEQ. At normal BS, they should beat tankbustas on termiantors too, and probably be close to them at -1 to hit.

Edit: To be honest, the real reason one might avoid Flash Gits is simply because our heavy slots are much more competitive than our elite slots.

PiñaColada wrote:
I gotta be honest, I still don't really see the case for Flash Gits when you basically get 2 tankbustas for every FG you bring. Sure, worse BS but they can move and shoot without penalty and flat 3DMG is going to be a lot tastier against the new terminator statline etc (not to mention they're great against tanks).

It's true that tankbustas are comparable, but they are also squishier with (effectively) no save, and have worse BS as you said. The big advantage of a Tankbusta mob is they are in elites, which has a lot less competition than the Heavy Support slot flashgitz fill. Moving flashgitz to elites would make them a n awful lot more appealing to me. As it is, without buying extra detachments, I can't run 2 wagons full of flashgits - which seems wrong to me!

tulun wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
I gotta be honest, I still don't really see the case for Flash Gits when you basically get 2 tankbustas for every FG you bring. Sure, worse BS but they can move and shoot without penalty and flat 3DMG is going to be a lot tastier against the new terminator statline etc (not to mention they're great against tanks).

So 5 Flash Gits (with Kaptin) is 160 points. 10 TB is 170.

If both are hitting at normal BS (we'll ignore explosions as it's a static boost for both anyway)

4 Flash gits: 12 shots, 6 hit, 4 wound, 2.67 dead Primaris.
Kaptin: 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, .89 dead primaris.
Grand total: 3.56 dead Primaris. (At -1 to hit due to moving this is: 1.795 + .673 = 2.468 dead primaris)

Then they can try to shoot twice on a 6.

Tankbustas:
10 shots, 3.333 hit, 2.76 wound, 1.85 dead primaris.

So Flash gits are cheaper, and better PER point if both are hitting at normal BS against Primaris AND even at -1 to hit. God forbid the tanbustas get -1 to hit.

Flash gits are expensive, but they really, really shred PEQ. At normal BS, they should beat tankbustas on termiantors too, and probably be close to them at -1 to hit.

Edit: To be honest, the real reason one might avoid Flash Gits is simply because our heavy slots are much more competitive than our elite slots.

Are you sure on termies? Flash gits require 2 shots to punch terminator. Tank bustas will do it in one.

Main reason i prefer tb is flexibility. Terminator, gravis(t5 w3), custodian, vehicles. All is good targets. Fg...primaris marine and...what else? 3.67 primaris and then often dead.

tneva82 wrote:


Are you sure on termies? Flash gits require 2 shots to punch terminator. Tank bustas will do it in one.

Main reason i prefer tb is flexibility. Terminator, gravis(t5 w3), custodian, vehicles. All is good targets. Fg...primaris marine and...what else? 3.67 primaris and then often dead.

Sure, let's do the math.

Since I assume most terminators will sport the new Storm Shield, let's assume that. So 1+, 4++, so the termiantors are both making 3+ saves against these units

4 normal gits: 12 / 2 * .67 / 3 = 1.34 unsaved wounds
Kaptin: 3 * .67 * .67 / 3 = .446 unsaved wounds
Total: 1.78. Should be about 1 dead Terminator.

10 Tankbustas:
10 / 3 * .8333 / 3 = 0.92 unsaved wounds
Should be about 1 dead terminator.

At -1 to hit, the flash gits probably lose, but neither is particularly threatening to a Storm shield terminator, sadly.

I think with adding ammo runt re-rolls and such you could push the flash gits up a bit, but it's rough.

Tankbustas are totally fine, by the by. It's just really wrong to say they are BETTER against PEQ. Tankbustas shine against vehicles, with that to hit-reroll, the conversion rate from shot to hit is like 65-70% (IE: For every shot you fire, you should expect with explosions on top of it, about .65-.7 hits).

Flash Gits are literally built to shred PEQ. I think Rockets are good against Gravis (GEQ is sadly taken.. GrEQ?), but I think is probably better when it's just a random rocket on stuff like a Mega Trakk. Leave Tankbustas for what they do best -- killing tanks. If they have no better targets, they do okay, but don't really shine.

Yes, I understand that TBs are inferior to FGs when it comes to being dedicated primaries killers. But that's not their role really, they just have to be fairly decent at it. My point being that they're probably good enough to pull that double duty if your facing an infantry heavy SM list (especially if it's terminators, gravis, potentially those new heavy intercessors). If you're facing something a more balanced list then those TBs can easily demolish some tanks instead.

Tankbustas made out like bandits whereas Flash Gits did not, so if you're facing a bunch of Space Marines then obviously the Gits have a potential niche there but Tankbustas are weirdly just a much better TAC choice.

Edit: Not to mention stuff like Custodes and 2W plague marines...

PiñaColada wrote:
Yes, I understand that TBs are inferior to FGs when it comes to being dedicated primaries killers. But that's not their role really, they just have to be fairly decent at it. My point being that they're probably good enough to pull that double duty if your facing an infantry heavy SM list (especially if it's terminators, gravis, potentially those new heavy intercessors). If you're facing something a more balanced list then those TBs can easily demolish some tanks instead.

Tankbustas made out like bandits whereas Flash Gits did not, so if you're facing a bunch of Space Marines then obviously the Gits have a potential niche there but Tankbustas are weirdly just a much better TAC choice.

Except as some basic napkin math shows, 170 points of tankbustas barely kills 2 models, be it GrEQ or PEQ. And god forbid they have a feel no pain like Iron hands. (Invul here doesn't matter, as it's AP-2).

You use them in a pinch, but that is wholly unimpressive. At least GrEQ models are often quite expensive to make up for it.

This isn't a case to use Flash gits by the by, but I would much rather have Flash Gits if there were no tanks around. Adding an ammo runt to my Kaptin will also very nicely swing the math in the FG favour. And explosions do matter to FG a bit more, as they are more likely to hit secondary shots, so this is probably actually UNDERSELLING their advantage against GrEQ and PEQ.

I dunno, maybe I'm scarred, but when was the last time you faced primaries that didn't have that PA upgraded apothecary for a 6++ (or possibly 5++)? For me it's basically never, so 2DMG weapons aren't that attractive as primaris killers IMO.

And again, even though it's not really backed up by much data so far, people are really talking up Custodes and DG as big players in early 9th, and even if it turns out to be somewhat unfounded the zeitgeist will still make those armies more common for a while I'm assuming. Flat 3 dmg is a lot more tempting there as well

tulun wrote:
Gravis (GEQ is sadly taken.. GrEQ?)

AEG = Aggressor Equivalent

Or just not be lazy and type those six letters

Since I assume most terminators will sport the new Storm Shield, let's assume that. So 1+, 4++, so the termiantors are both making 3+ saves against these units

Didn`t GW say in an FAQ that only the bladeguard will get those new fancy shields or did i miss something here?
Not that it would matter in this case, just wondering.

As you said, TB can`t compete with Gitz shooting PEQ. Only bonus would be the shooting twice strategem if you run bad moons.
And TB using tankbusta bombs with the granade strategem and shooting twice are quite killy, but will die instantly afterwards.
If you trade them for something like a Castellan it is still worth it tough.

The real answer to this question: take neither.

Each unit is fragile and is too expensive to field without protection. They are too expensive and don’t hit hard enough to be a suicidal unit. Therefore there’s a 65 point minimum transport cost added.

Do you know what I would take for 220 points? Two mega trakks or shock jumps. Both of which will shred better.

All roads lead to buggy spam or green tide once you start optimizing.

Oh yeah, most definitively. I've been playing buggy spam since those models dropped (and mostly sucked) so it's interesting that my 12 buggy list somehow basically became meta recently.

Though I'm still desperately trying to make those darn nob bikers work since I have so many warbiker models. My hope is that all the different Nobz units get +1 toughness as their durability buff when the new codex drops. T6 bikers would be amazing, but also, MANZ should be T5.

 Grotrebel wrote:

Since I assume most terminators will sport the new Storm Shield, let's assume that. So 1+, 4++, so the termiantors are both making 3+ saves against these units

Didn`t GW say in an FAQ that only the bladeguard will get those new fancy shields or did i miss something here?
Not that it would matter in this case, just wondering.

As you said, TB can`t compete with Gitz shooting PEQ. Only bonus would be the shooting twice strategem if you run bad moons.
And TB using tankbusta bombs with the granade strategem and shooting twice are quite killy, but will die instantly afterwards.
If you trade them for something like a Castellan it is still worth it tough.

They said for now. They didn't say it would never spread. Seeing codex will come with whole bunch of other changes and gw is removing 3++ lately would be likely to come　in codex. Faq just made　sure it happens then.

PiñaColada wrote:
Oh yeah, most definitively. I've been playing buggy spam since those models dropped (and mostly sucked) so it's interesting that my 12 buggy list somehow basically became meta recently.

Though I'm still desperately trying to make those darn nob bikers work since I have so many warbiker models. My hope is that all the different Nobz units get +1 toughness as their durability buff when the new codex drops. T6 bikers would be amazing, but also, MANZ should be T5.

Yeah. The numbers on buggies just looks really, really good. When you could double dip with grot shields (as you needed lots of troops anyway), it made more sense to field the likes of Lootas, tankbustas, and Flash gits. Not so much anymore.
Buggy spam just seems incredibly strong. Even with people leaning into anti tank, buggies just get into board position easily while having enough output to be a threat. And fielding an entire army of T5+, all with invuls, is really solid.

Honestly, with base stat changes, I'm very hopeful Nobs will be 3 wound base -- so 4 wound Mega Nobs and 4 wound nobs bikers might be a thing. unfortunately, if they also just up the damage of weapons, we might not see the overall benefits compared to today's damage output

Nobs becoming T5 wouldn't necessarily be outside the realm of possibility either I guess, but we'll see what direction they go. It would be nice if Mega Nob armour was Gravis like and T5 at least... it seems weird it's just 1 wound at this point.

PiñaColada wrote:
Oh yeah, most definitively. I've been playing buggy spam since those models dropped (and mostly sucked) so it's interesting that my 12 buggy list somehow basically became meta recently.

Though I'm still desperately trying to make those darn nob bikers work since I have so many warbiker models. My hope is that all the different Nobz units get +1 toughness as their durability buff when the new codex drops. T6 bikers would be amazing, but also, MANZ should be T5.

Personally, I'm hoping for +1 wound for bikes in general and ours getting back exhaust cloud. Almost every other biker unit in the game has some defense mechanism now, except the ones who had it first.

Especially now that modifiers dont stack theres no fear of -2 to hit bikers with the stratagem.
Technically they'd still exist but unless youre facing a +1 or better to hit it wouldnt matter.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Especially now that modifiers dont stack theres no fear of -2 to hit bikers with the stratagem.
Technically they'd still exist but unless youre facing a +1 or better to hit it wouldnt matter.

Well, if I were the one to write the rules, I'd make exhaust cloud work like obscuring terrain - that would open up endless possibilities for strategic shenanigans.

tulun wrote:

Honestly, with base stat changes, I'm very hopeful Nobs will be 3 wound base -- so 4 wound Mega Nobs and 4 wound nobs bikers might be a thing. unfortunately, if they also just up the damage of weapons, we might not see the overall benefits compared to today's damage output

Nobs becoming T5 wouldn't necessarily be outside the realm of possibility either I guess, but we'll see what direction they go. It would be nice if Mega Nob armour was Gravis like and T5 at least... it seems weird it's just 1 wound at this point.

T5 W3 nobs? Super unlikely. Necron immortals got just T5 and not 2nd wound. Would feel pretty odd for nobz to be so tough compared to necron elite warriors who are supposedly super resilient.

Maybe T5 W2(though that would still be weird). But wouldn't even count on getting 3rd wound.

And either way T or W buff would be hefty price hike. Both? Would be VERY expensive model.

tneva82 wrote:

tulun wrote:

Honestly, with base stat changes, I'm very hopeful Nobs will be 3 wound base -- so 4 wound Mega Nobs and 4 wound nobs bikers might be a thing. unfortunately, if they also just up the damage of weapons, we might not see the overall benefits compared to today's damage output

Nobs becoming T5 wouldn't necessarily be outside the realm of possibility either I guess, but we'll see what direction they go. It would be nice if Mega Nob armour was Gravis like and T5 at least... it seems weird it's just 1 wound at this point.

T5 W3 nobs? Super unlikely. Necron immortals got just T5 and not 2nd wound. Would feel pretty odd for nobz to be so tough compared to necron elite warriors who are supposedly super resilient.

Maybe T5 W2(though that would still be weird). But wouldn't even count on getting 3rd wound.

And either way T or W buff would be hefty price hike. Both? Would be VERY expensive model.

I am under a theory boys will get +1 wounds, to represent the hard to kill nature of Orks. An ork boy and a space marine are not necessarily off in terms of bulky size (I can't comment on Immortals. Do remember, they do get res protocols).
As it is right now, a 6+ save and 1 wound makes them a joke when even 10 guardsmen can output something like 40 shots in 1 turn and bloody a bunch of Boys.

If boys go to 2, nobs to go to 3.

We shall see, though. I'm not clambouring for extra toughness on Nobs, other than Mega Nobs, which I think deserve the buff. Extra wounds makes sense to me.

tulun wrote:
The real answer to this question: take neither.

Each unit is fragile and is too expensive to field without protection. They are too expensive and don’t hit hard enough to be a suicidal unit. Therefore there’s a 65 point minimum transport cost added.

Do you know what I would take for 220 points? Two mega trakks or shock jumps. Both of which will shred better.

All roads lead to buggy spam or green tide once you start optimizing.

The thing is with the buggies once you have 9 of them then what does the rest of the list look like? Meaning 3 scrap jets, 3 kbb, and 3 dragsters then 2 burna bombers plus HQs you still have around 4-500 points left how do we best use those?

i'd be shocked if footnobz went to T5. Third wound, maybe, but T5? Noway.
Meganobz on the other hand definitely should be T5.

Time will tell though as this is all speculation.