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I have a ret**ded question that i need to have answered.

If i run Ghaz in, lets say a Bad Moonz or other clan as maybe a brigade, does he still buff Goff infantry in another patrol then?

Because i kinda wanna have Ghaz as my leader in my biggest detatchment, but i dont want Goff to be that biggest detatchment, they're more like support foot slogging infantry.

Yes because the keywords are still there, Ghaz just doesnt benefit from the Goff kulture in that case.
He's still a Goff, just one without kulture.

Scactha wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:

Spoiler:

 some bloke wrote:
Just thrown together a dreadmob list (I used to run an IA8 dreadmob in 7th, almost entirely metal. you could sometimes feel the table tilting once my army was deployed!), and I'm curious as to how people are running their dreads.

I've already ascertained that with T5, kans are not qualified for a dreadmob - they give targets for anti-infantry guns, which is bad.

My list (about 1450 points, need to round to 1500):

Spearhead Detachment
Deffkilla wartrike

Nob with waaagh! banner

Deff Dread mob 1:
klaw/klaw/rokkit/big shoota
klaw/klaw/rokkit/big shoota
klaw/klaw/rokkit/rokkit

Deff dread mob 2:
KMB x 4
KMB x 4
KMB x 4
Sparkly Bitz

Deff Dread Mob 3:
Klaw/Klaw/Saw/Skorcha
Klaw/Klaw/Saw/Skorcha
Klaw/Klaw/Saw/Skorcha
Orkymatic Pistons

Morkanaught, KFF



totals 1468 points, so a few bits to add. but the stumbling block I've hit is what faction to run them as?

Evil Suns gives speed boosts, which couple with orkymatic pistons and the wartrikes ability to let my dreads surge across the board at an alarming rate.

Bad Moons lets me reroll the 1's on all of those kustom-mega weapons, and is currently in the lead (also lets me put the gobshot blundabuss on my banner nob, for the luls)

Snakebites gives everything a 6+++, which will be quite handy with high-damage weapons being the main concern.


So the question is, when you lot run your dreads - how do you use them? What klan works best for you?

I'm thinking they will be getting a new lease of life now they can shoot whilst in combat, hence the skorchas on the CC ones - need to clear out the gribblies as well as the tanks!

72 T7 3+ wounds to clear out is a fairly big ask for most armies, so durability should be fine, and only the mork degrades so it can, theoretically, lose 63 wounds with no decrease in damage output!

As is so often the case, Death Skulls would seem to offer a ton of utility. Free triple rerolls on each and every dread every phase is quite juicy (even with the quad kmb the odds of rolling multiple 1s is pretty low - and anything that wants an ork model dead is going to kill it anyway, so a wound every game or two won't matter much). The 6++ lets you operate away from your only kff and still get the odd armor save against AP-4 weapons, too, though that's obviously more of a bonus rather than a plan.

I would agree. Low number, high impact units benefit more from the triple re-roll.

some bloke How will you counter various infantry deeping in and catching objectives? E.g. Marine Scouts will gladly step up and just outnumber the odd dread for a massive VP swing.even if they die the next turn.

IIRC objectives are counted in the command phase, so I can clear units off the objectives in my turn to deny points. I'm hopeful to get some decent secondary objectives and to control at least one objective with my dreads or with the smasha guns for the first few turns, and I hope that I can clear units off objectives fairly well with the dreads. I've tweaked the list to have 1 skorcha and 1 rokkit on 3 of the dreads, rather than a rokkit and big shoota. that brings it up to 1498pts, which I'm happy with.

so I have plenty of anti-tank, a bit of anti-infantry (6 skorchas, wartrike) and an absolute lack of infantry (1 model!), it should be an interesting army to try out

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes because the keywords are still there, Ghaz just doesnt benefit from the Goff kulture in that case.
He's still a Goff, just one without kulture.

right. he is an uncultured Ork.

never thought id say that about an ork

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Man...the more i try to make lists for 9th the more i realize we are kinda shoehorned into buggy lists right now.

Buggy lists are fun but i like running different lists now and then. Is it just me, or does it feel like anything that isnt buggy spam related doesnt have both the punch needed or the objective taking power?
Seems like i always have at least 5 buggies, a burnabomma, and a gunwagon. The rest is dedicated to just objective jobs for the most part.

Nope. There si more options to try. Not too many tournaments due the covid, so there is not so much relevant data. But I see the following directions possible:

1. Buggy spam
2. Heavy machines (gunwagons + morkonauts etc) with part of buggy spam
3. Green tide with ghazz
—— this 3 has been proved and works. Following are my speculations that could be combined. ——-
4. MANz spam - has not been seen, but I believe, sooner or later, it will be a topic
5. Smg spam + some from above. Everybody speaks about “more terrain bla bla” but smg are still brutal and super effective.
6. Ride of the valkyrs - chinorks with ratling cannons orks jumping out to objectives.
7. Flyier spam - place 2 burna bommers and 2 wazbooms and you will see, that your ground force is safe. All shooting will be aimed to the planes.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Man...the more i try to make lists for 9th the more i realize we are kinda shoehorned into buggy lists right now.

Buggy lists are fun but i like running different lists now and then. Is it just me, or does it feel like anything that isnt buggy spam related doesnt have both the punch needed or the objective taking power?
Seems like i always have at least 5 buggies, a burnabomma, and a gunwagon. The rest is dedicated to just objective jobs for the most part.

Nope. There si more options to try. Not too many tournaments due the covid, so there is not so much relevant data. But I see the following directions possible:

1. Buggy spam
2. Heavy machines (gunwagons + morkonauts etc) with part of buggy spam
3. Green tide with ghazz
—— this 3 has been proved and works. Following are my speculations that could be combined. ——-
4. MANz spam - has not been seen, but I believe, sooner or later, it will be a topic
5. Smg spam + some from above. Everybody speaks about “more terrain bla bla” but smg are still brutal and super effective.
6. Ride of the valkyrs - chinorks with ratling cannons orks jumping out to objectives.
7. Flyier spam - place 2 burna bommers and 2 wazbooms and you will see, that your ground force is safe. All shooting will be aimed to the planes.

I wholeheartedly agree that Orks are a faction which resists getting shoehorned into a "only this build is viable" approach. We can make so many different styles of army, it's a shame to see people saying that only buggies work.

I agree thatbuggies do work, but I disagree that they are the only viable option! I only have 1 buggy, and I won a lot of games in 8th and have won my first game in 9th. I don't feel I'm on the back foot or at a disadvantage because I don't have more buggies!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes because the keywords are still there, Ghaz just doesnt benefit from the Goff kulture in that case.
He's still a Goff, just one without kulture.

But does that mean Ghazzy dont have exploding 6's if i put him in a Bad Moonz detatchment?

Beardedragon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes because the keywords are still there, Ghaz just doesnt benefit from the Goff kulture in that case.
He's still a Goff, just one without kulture.

But does that mean Ghazzy dont have exploding 6's if i put him in a Bad Moonz detatchment?

Yup. He won't get the benefits of the Goff kultur unless he's in a Goff detachment. He just makes it so the rest of the detachment still retains theirs if they're not Goff.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes because the keywords are still there, Ghaz just doesnt benefit from the Goff kulture in that case.
He's still a Goff, just one without kulture.

But does that mean Ghazzy dont have exploding 6's if i put him in a Bad Moonz detatchment?

Yup. He won't get the benefits of the Goff kultur unless he's in a Goff detachment. He just makes it so the rest of the detachment still retains theirs if they're not Goff.

well that sucks.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yes because the keywords are still there, Ghaz just doesnt benefit from the Goff kulture in that case.
He's still a Goff, just one without kulture.

But does that mean Ghazzy dont have exploding 6's if i put him in a Bad Moonz detatchment?

Yup. He won't get the benefits of the Goff kultur unless he's in a Goff detachment. He just makes it so the rest of the detachment still retains theirs if they're not Goff.

well that sucks.

To be fair, he's not terrible in a non goffs detachment since the 6's to explode for CC hits is just gravy on top of what he does already anyways. Plus Goffs as a klan got a lot stronger this edition compared to before now that we can't fight as easily in CC now with the changes to coherency for bigger units and how everyone is forced into the scrum around the middle.

 some bloke wrote:

Scactha wrote:

some bloke How will you counter various infantry deeping in and catching objectives? E.g. Marine Scouts will gladly step up and just outnumber the odd dread for a massive VP swing.even if they die the next turn.

IIRC objectives are counted in the command phase, so I can clear units off the objectives in my turn to deny points. I'm hopeful to get some decent secondary objectives and to control at least one objective with my dreads or with the smasha guns for the first few turns, and I hope that I can clear units off objectives fairly well with the dreads. I've tweaked the list to have 1 skorcha and 1 rokkit on 3 of the dreads, rather than a rokkit and big shoota. that brings it up to 1498pts, which I'm happy with.

so I have plenty of anti-tank, a bit of anti-infantry (6 skorchas, wartrike) and an absolute lack of infantry (1 model!), it should be an interesting army to try out

Apologies, that was unclear. I meant they will deny you your VP as they will both outnumber and maybe even be ObSec (like the aforementioned MScouts). Not that they will try to get more themselves. Say you ended your turn with your 2 objects in your dz and 1 in no mans land under your control and then they contest the nml one and walk in the scouts. Now you went from possible 15 VP to 5. Ouch.

In general I believe that is key in 9th. Rather than obsessing with getting your "given" VPs the onus of the game is denying the opponent theirs. If you can spend ~50 points doing that by whatever cheap units it seems like a impressive VP for points exchange

 Grimskul wrote:
To be fair, he's not terrible in a non goffs detachment since the 6's to explode for CC hits is just gravy on top of what he does already anyways. Plus Goffs as a klan got a lot stronger this edition compared to before now that we can't fight as easily in CC now with the changes to coherency for bigger units and how everyone is forced into the scrum around the middle.

In my experience Thrakka really need those exploding sixes to be worth his points though, you simply can't afford to have him bounce of a vehicle you want to crush and one extra attack can make all the difference.

Ghazghkull without exploding 6s and without buffing several units simply doesn't worth 300 points, unless playing very casual. Take a naut if you just want a centerpiece model.

I'd never take Ghaz outside a proper Goffs list that is designed around him.

Nah, he doesn't need to be build around, but he does need to be your warlord and have the goff culture to be worth the trouble. With just his basic 5 attacks people can easily feed him sacrificial units and ignore him. At 6-7 attacks he starts flipping a tank every turn and destroys any primaris unit he touches, forcing people into doing something about him.

 Jidmah wrote:
Nah, he doesn't need to be build around, but he does need to be your warlord and have the goff culture to be worth the trouble. With just his basic 5 attacks people can easily feed him sacrificial units and ignore him. At 6-7 attacks he starts flipping a tank every turn and destroys any primaris unit he touches, forcing people into doing something about him.

So if i should use Ghazzy, who i have almost finished painting, im supposed to put him in a Goff detatchment, despite the fact that both Bad Moonz, Deathskulls and Evil Sunz outperform Goff in terms of clan culture usage?

Bummer. I mean my entire 1400 points ive collected so far (started 3 months ago) are Goff painted but as i started playing i kind of got the idea that Goff isnt really that good.

thats why i wanted to use a small detatchment of my Goff soldiers for footslogging or throwing them in trukks and then using skarboyz. The main army would be another clan. But since your warlords detatchment doesnt lose you any CP i wanted Ghaz to belong to that other detatchment.


But then again i guess Ghaz can lead his small Goff detatchment and ill just have someone else be the warlord. It just seem thematically wrong to not have Ghaz be the warlord but some weird ass warboss or a Big Mek with KFF.

It's not like the warlord traits are super important anymore, I just put all my boyz and other units that benefit from goff into a goff battalion and everything else in an outrider or patrol, depending on how many slots you need.

Since he replaces your killa klaw and biggest boss warboss, it's really just a 0-1 CP difference.

I did some more digging on Blood Axes There´s some nuggets there. The "Fall back and charge or shoot" ability is quite interesting when you look into it. It puts stuff like this always on:

Deffkilla Wartrike Stratagem - Snagga Grapple (1 CP for 2+ to do D3 MW)

Bonebreakas Deff rolls opponents. (Red Rolla even doing 12 hits)

BRUTAL BUT KUNNIN’ (+1D)

Buggies rams (4+ for D3 MW)

Dragstas move and shoot.

Fantastic board control

Stuff I´ve missed

For a sample list I´m thinking 2 Bonebreakas (one under KFF and the 2nd a Forktress) now with a Big Mek in MA with KFF/Da Killa Klaw + Da Kleverest Boss and BBK for Warlord. He´ll ride into enemy lines with his rides full of boys. Everyone jumps off and fight alongside the BWs who all keep jumping in and out of cc for the bonus damage. Add a Wartrike and the usual suspect Buggies for speed and even more MWs. During all this the Mek and oilers repair the BWs.

That´s a bonus of ~21 St9 AP2 D2 hit from Deff rollas, +4D (St 10) from the Warlord, +1 MW per buggy (say 4 of them) = 4 MW and 2 MW from the Trike.

Sum is an expected extra 25D + 6MW (at ST9/10 AP2/3) per turn Just for taking the Kultur. I somehow think that´s significant.

Any opinion on this? What did I miss?

Scactha wrote:
I did some more digging on Blood Axes There´s some nuggets there. The "Fall back and charge or shoot" ability is quite interesting when you look into it. It puts stuff like this always on:

Deffkilla Wartrike Stratagem - Snagga Grapple (1 CP for 2+ to do D3 MW)

Bonebreakas Deff rolls opponents. (Red Rolla even doing 12 hits)

BRUTAL BUT KUNNIN’ (+1D)

Buggies rams (4+ for D3 MW)

Dragstas move and shoot.

Fantastic board control

Stuff I´ve missed

For a sample list I´m thinking 2 Bonebreakas (one under KFF and the 2nd a Forktress) now with a Big Mek in MA with KFF/Da Killa Klaw + Da Kleverest Boss and BBK for Warlord. He´ll ride into enemy lines with his rides full of boys. Everyone jumps off and fight alongside the BWs who all keep jumping in and out of cc for the bonus damage. Add a Wartrike and the usual suspect Buggies for speed and even more MWs. During all this the Mek and oilers repair the BWs.

That´s a bonus of ~21 St9 AP2 D2 hit from Deff rollas, +4D (St 10) from the Warlord, +1 MW per buggy (say 4 of them) = 4 MW and 2 MW from the Trike.

Sum is an expected extra 25D + 6MW (at ST9/10 AP2/3) per turn Just for taking the Kultur. I somehow think that´s significant.

Any opinion on this? What did I miss?

Take Bommers and add another 25MW perturn and call it Mortal Rain....

Scactha wrote:
Any opinion on this? What did I miss?

Most likely experience

The issue is that ork units rarely, if ever, get the chance to make the decision to fall back. When you come back to your movement phase, either the ork unit is dead, or the enemy is dead or the enemy has fallen back to shoot your unit.

Yeah i think the only time ive ever fallen back with orks was when i somehow had 1-2 boys left and i needed to shoot what they were fighting.
Orks either get swept so they cant fall back, or sweep so theres no need to fall back. Everything durable enough to actually stay stuck in combat the enemy isnt going to be stupid enough to NOT fall back themselves either.

I think most of my 8th edition fall back moves were KBB blacking out of a unit they couldn't kill. In 9th I will just stay there and continue the barbecue.

tulun wrote:

Lootloader wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Hey guys, going to be playing against Harlequins soon sometime next week, and given how they are one of the few factions that were largely untouched from the price bumps in the edition, what do you think would be a better list against them? I can't compete against their mobility, but we can still bring more bodies, so should I go for a green tide style list with Ghazzy, or a buggy list? I'm assuming he'll be bringing fusion pistols, so I don't know if the usual buggy list I'll bring will be a liability with how many ideal targets he'll get, but on the other hand stuff like KBB will do real work on any troupe squads left exposed. What do you guys think?

I'd probably go with the green tide with Ghaz list. Focus on secondaries like "Investigate Sites" I think it's called, where you have to hold the center of the board. Let him dance all around the board firing fusion into boyz, and laugh as he can't kill enough. If he wants to stop you from holding the center, he has to wade through so many goff boyz who will mulch the 4++ save troupes. Plus, if he does try to do that, you'll be there with Ghaz to mop up anything left.

If they go fusion boats, sure.

What if they go foot slogging Frozen Stars or mixed with Skyweaver spam? Haywire cannons are great at two things: Horde clearing (d6 str 4 ap-1 d1 shots Blast) or vehicle killing. Getting 30-36 shots per unit will absolutely cleanup boys.

Their troupes are just faster than the boys. 8" move, strat for a 6" auto advance, then they can charge after with a 3++ invul, and a unit of 8-10 or so will absolutely clean up a boy squad if they want to (str 5, +1 wound, potentially re-rolling all wounds).

I think you'd need to pack in 12+ mek guns to have a chance. Otherwise he'll just outmaneuver and crump you. Ghaz is largely irrelevant in this matchup. He sucks against spammed invuls. He might be lucky to kill 2-3 troupes a round in CC... I'll take that and the primary point as they are Obsec. And they can all fallback and charge / shoot, you can't just tag stuff to stay safe.

You'll notice in his post he mentions that he assumes his opponent will be bringing fusion pistols. I'd wager more that he is going fusion boats with mixed in skyweavers, which I think is a tough, yet winnable matchup for a green tide list. I'd be wary of bringing mek gunz in that match up, as they are easy to kill, and with the speed of the harlequins they can easily get to them, and charge them, meaning your effectively stuck in combat there, and they are protected (assuming your opponent is clever and doesn't kill the mek gun on their turn).

My roommate has harlies and its honestly just weight of fire that deals with them. They havea 4++ armywide, long as you avoid a highly elite list you should be fine.
It can be mega irritating when the 4++ keeps working but every time ive faced my roommate eventually the 4++ luck fades for a turn and suddenly 2/3 his army is dead.

Lootloader wrote:


You'll notice in his post he mentions that he assumes his opponent will be bringing fusion pistols. I'd wager more that he is going fusion boats with mixed in skyweavers, which I think is a tough, yet winnable matchup for a green tide list. I'd be wary of bringing mek gunz in that match up, as they are easy to kill, and with the speed of the harlequins they can easily get to them, and charge them, meaning your effectively stuck in combat there, and they are protected (assuming your opponent is clever and doesn't kill the mek gun on their turn).

I mean he said he expects fusion pistols, not fusion boat spam. A fusion boat (5 pistols, blades, Starweaver) is only 175 points. You can easily include 1-2 without going all in.

I think the buggy list would fair a bit worse against Fusion boat spam but I actually think it edges on Orks winning. It probably takes 2 boats just to guarantee a Mega Trakk dead on average -- and you are 6" away from my army. It's super aggro. I think you take a bloody first turn, and unless he rolls hot, you just outright win the game.

Boy spam would do fine too. But I think that's not the best Harle list, at least against Orks. If you look at the more Frozen Star style, I think that only absolutely will give green tide headaches, but I think buggy spam would actually fair quite well against it.

Vineheart01 wrote:
My roommate has harlies and its honestly just weight of fire that deals with them. They havea 4++ armywide, long as you avoid a highly elite list you should be fine.
It can be mega irritating when the 4++ keeps working but every time ive faced my roommate eventually the 4++ luck fades for a turn and suddenly 2/3 his army is dead.

That's my impression as well. Big Shootas become money -- you want massed, decent strength guns. Force enough saves on those 4++ invuls. But I am dubious having a super slow army, unless you're tanky like death guard, would be an optimal strategy against most Harlequin armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On Ghaz:

I think you need to go all in on Goff Buffs to make Goff better than Deathskull.. and Deathskull has a few edges anyway.

Quick token example, against something like T4, 3+ save.

36 atttacks from Goff Boys (not skar), with Ghaz nearby. So they get exploding 6s, and re-roll 1s.

24 hit, 6 explode, 6 miss. 4 of the misses hit, and of the 6 explosions, 4 hit (I'll ignore the 1 on the explosions, just to keep the math nice and even). Netting you 32 hits.
16 of those wound, resulting in 5.33 failed saves (5 dead tacs, 2.5 dead Primaris).

Now Deathskulls do the same except we'll use Maniacal Seizure on top of it against the unit. We'll ignore lucky for the sake of argument.
24 hits, 12 wounds, 6 failed saves = 6 dead Tacs, 3 dead primaris.

Goff boys will probably start smashing as soon as you add Skar boys AND the waaaagh banner, but both are expensive CP and point wise.

But DS with simply a bonus attack and their <CLAN> psychic actually do a ton of work, and then you splash in a bunch of buggies and vehicles without taking a second detachment.

Ghaz getting that supreme commander ability will be absolutely massive. It seems likely he'll get it, and that'll make it even easier for him to lead Deathskulls or Evil Suns without losing his culture bonus.

 Jidmah wrote:

Scactha wrote:
Any opinion on this? What did I miss?

Most likely experience

The issue is that ork units rarely, if ever, get the chance to make the decision to fall back. When you come back to your movement phase, either the ork unit is dead, or the enemy is dead or the enemy has fallen back to shoot your unit.

Fair enough...but you´re talking 8th. The days of gun lines and death star units are numbered The future is movement and control which fits bad with that strategy. Rather MSU. Perkins winning list illustrates the point.

I believe semi durable stuff will stay around longer because of that. E.g. MANZ, BWs and Buggies are in a decent spot.

And I sure did miscalculate. BWs add +D6 (or 6 for Red Rolla). Not 6+D6 more each

Literally nothing about this fact has changed from 8th to 9th. MANz and BW will murder anything they charge and will only get charged by things that are strong enough to kill them. Buggies are not durable at all and people will fall back from them to blow them up.

I have played buggy lists a lot in 8th and very little has change in regards to how that list plays no in 9th, except that all buggies want to stay in CC now.

"Blood axes are good" is nonsense that has been repeated by non-ork players on youtube channels and blogs ever since the codex dropped because those people fail to understand that orks aren't marines or eldar.

The bloodaxe culture is utterly worthless and 9th did not change a thing about that.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Nah, he doesn't need to be build around, but he does need to be your warlord and have the goff culture to be worth the trouble. With just his basic 5 attacks people can easily feed him sacrificial units and ignore him. At 6-7 attacks he starts flipping a tank every turn and destroys any primaris unit he touches, forcing people into doing something about him.

So if i should use Ghazzy, who i have almost finished painting, im supposed to put him in a Goff detatchment, despite the fact that both Bad Moonz, Deathskulls and Evil Sunz outperform Goff in terms of clan culture usage?

Bummer. I mean my entire 1400 points ive collected so far (started 3 months ago) are Goff painted but as i started playing i kind of got the idea that Goff isnt really that good.

thats why i wanted to use a small detatchment of my Goff soldiers for footslogging or throwing them in trukks and then using skarboyz. The main army would be another clan. But since your warlords detatchment doesnt lose you any CP i wanted Ghaz to belong to that other detatchment.


But then again i guess Ghaz can lead his small Goff detatchment and ill just have someone else be the warlord. It just seem thematically wrong to not have Ghaz be the warlord but some weird ass warboss or a Big Mek with KFF.

Bad moons really isn’t worth it anymore...
evil suns pushes toward a certain list build and it’s not exactly needed especially since it tends to be melee focused
Which brings us too goffs which is even more melee focused
Sure it’s just exploding 6s which isn’t that amazing
But it’s also ghaz giving reroll 1 aura which is huge once you have so many dice flying
But one of the main reason goffs are competitive is ghaz and a goff painboy essentially Denys slay the warlord or becomes such a huge focus away from the rest of your army.

gungo wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Nah, he doesn't need to be build around, but he does need to be your warlord and have the goff culture to be worth the trouble. With just his basic 5 attacks people can easily feed him sacrificial units and ignore him. At 6-7 attacks he starts flipping a tank every turn and destroys any primaris unit he touches, forcing people into doing something about him.

So if i should use Ghazzy, who i have almost finished painting, im supposed to put him in a Goff detatchment, despite the fact that both Bad Moonz, Deathskulls and Evil Sunz outperform Goff in terms of clan culture usage?

Bummer. I mean my entire 1400 points ive collected so far (started 3 months ago) are Goff painted but as i started playing i kind of got the idea that Goff isnt really that good.

thats why i wanted to use a small detatchment of my Goff soldiers for footslogging or throwing them in trukks and then using skarboyz. The main army would be another clan. But since your warlords detatchment doesnt lose you any CP i wanted Ghaz to belong to that other detatchment.


But then again i guess Ghaz can lead his small Goff detatchment and ill just have someone else be the warlord. It just seem thematically wrong to not have Ghaz be the warlord but some weird ass warboss or a Big Mek with KFF.

Bad moons really isn’t worth it anymore...
evil suns pushes toward a certain list build and it’s not exactly needed especially since it tends to be melee focused
Which brings us too goffs which is even more melee focused
Sure it’s just exploding 6s which isn’t that amazing
But it’s also ghaz giving reroll 1 aura which is huge once you have so many dice flying
But one of the main reason goffs are competitive is ghaz and a goff painboy essentially Denys slay the warlord or becomes such a huge focus away from the rest of your army.

Why are Bad Moonz not worth it anymore? Id guess the only reason Deathskulls would take over Bad Moonz is if you use quality soldiers and Meks. If you have a somewhat quantity of Boys with Shoota or even Morkanauts i would assume Bad Moonz can do just fine and maybe even better

Badmoonz technically wasnt even that good except for Tankbustas fire twice and Lootas.
Lootas are overpriced garbage now even with the badmoonz stuff (they were iffy even with it before) and Tankbustas alone are not worth a badmoonz detachment.

You can still run them if you got a lot of dakka but the issue is most ork units actually DONT have high rate of fire, its just boyz/lootas that tend to fire 20+ dice everything else barely reaches 10 and per the math you need ~12 for badmoonz to outshine Deathskullz....and even then its barely outshining them.

I really wish badmoonz was reroll 1s to hit period. THAT would have been glorious. I hate kultures that completely dont even affect some units in a codex. Same problem with Goffs, but Goffs at least affect enough stuff to still dedicate part of the army to it.

Beardedragon wrote:
Why are Bad Moonz not worth it anymore? Id guess the only reason Deathskulls would take over Bad Moonz is if you use quality soldiers and Meks. If you have a somewhat quantity of Boys with Shoota or even Morkanauts i would assume Bad Moonz can do just fine and maybe even better

Anything with less than ~18 shots gets a larger damage boost from Deff Skulls' re-rolls than from re-rolling ones to hit, and that's ignoring that deff skulls also get a 6++ and objective secured on all their infantry.

So, anything but shoota boyz, dakkajets and lootas are at least as good as deff skulls, if not better.

The main reason to run bad moons is for shooting something twice.