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tneva82 wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Okay, so reading the points page in the FW book (on the video others linked earlier) from what i'm understanding with the blurb up the top the points is including the base wargear. So in the case of the grot tank that is 35 points for the grot tank and the big shoota but you can drop the big shoota for a skorcha at the cost 10 points extra correct?

Not quite. It shows CHEAPEST configuration which might not be same as datasheet has on default...

Basically you take the basic price and then check if any of your wargear are mentioned in the point cost.

Now I don't know if there's any where this comes into place in ork FW book but necron codex has couple units that has gauss cannon as default wargear with option to swap it to tesla weapon. In points gauss is meanwhile the one you pay for the price...

(Really wish datasheet had cheapest as default)

It gets a little odder as with the grot tank example the KMB and RL cost 10 which is what you'd normally pay for them, but the Skorcha is 10, 5 points cheaper than normal. And I think the mega tank has a different price for skorchas yet again. if the KMB and RL cost 5 for example (5 for the big shoota baked in which you then exchange) it'd make more sense to me.

Though i'd still say KMB may be the most tempting option for the grot tanks. But then they just feel like a kinda more mobile but weaker version of Mek Gunz.

 deffrekka wrote:

 addnid wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 addnid wrote:
If you were to buy a mega dread, what weapons would you order ? 2 klaws ? 1 klaw 1 KIll Kanon ? Perhaps I should just buy all 4 arms and magnetize

Ideally you can just magnetize them because rules change over time, but given how expensive that is, atm I would say it's a toss-up between the klaws or saws. The main problem with the killkannon is that we can take it on a much more cost efficient and accurate platform with a Da Boomer Battlewagon, so it's sort of redundant on a Mega Dread. The Killkannon might be slightly better on a Meka-Dread since it has a base of BS4+, but it still has the same problems of it not doing much compared to other units. Mega Dreads have the ability to roll 3D6 and choose the highest, so they more or less have a slightly worse version of Ramming Speed built in, so I feel like you go all in for CC and tellyport them for a charge.

Thanks ! Yeah I’ll drop the kill kanon, so what is the difference between saws and klaws ? Klaws are 3+d3 dmg, strength X2 (6 attacks if taken in a pair) but what is the saw profile ?

Saws are str +1 so str 8, ap4, damage 2, each time it fights make 1 additional attack with the weapon. Pretty god damn awful. As with its name, its a Dread Killsaw, without the -1 to hit but its worse str than a Nob with a Killsaw. Id stick to the Klaw, there is no price difference. The 2 damage is just bad.

Thanks man ! I agree klaws all the way. I will just buy the full klaw option, and kitbash saw arms (and magnetize both arms)

What base size is the biker boss supposed to be on these days?

 Dendarien wrote:
What base size is the biker boss supposed to be on these days?

Pretty much a termie base cut in half with a square ogre base stuck in between the halves.

Honestly, triple kill tank at 275 a piece is probably a decent core to your army.

24 Wounds, T8, at 275 points.. that actually is decent in CC, and has a gun that will likely hit on 4s.. and that can fallback and shoot built in?

It won't be in top tier lists, but if you have the models, you'll have a ton of fun on mid boards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, fun aside:

Your Warboss on Bike can be T8.

I mean, just do it once for the lulz.

How would you support them Tulun? Maybe throw a bunch of battle wagons alongside to flood the field with T8. A few mekboyz advancing alongside is almost mandatory unless you're running defskulls.

cody.d. wrote:
How would you support them Tulun? Maybe throw a bunch of battle wagons alongside to flood the field with T8. A few mekboyz advancing alongside is almost mandatory unless you're running defskulls.

I'd have to run the numbers, but I'd probably have 1 KFF mek tripointed in the middle of them turn 1. they can't hide anyway, so put them forward unless you think they'll be charged T1 if you do, or you think they'll be alpha struck by eradicators or something.

1175 points is a lot of Ork stuff tbh. I'd definitely do Mech Orks, though. Field a wall of armour to overwhelm their anti tank.

Take some buggies, some trukk boys, a gun wagon maybe, drive it forward.

Re KFF: No, just make them death skulls and call it a day. Orks don't really have mobile KFFs. Frustrating as hell. Just try to keep them alive on the first turn. The KFF mek can go inside one at least.

Does anyone happen to have any Killtanks on them? Pondering between conversion and buying the real things. May proxy them till then and would really appreciate if someone could give me the measurements.

what the hell....

2x Gigashoota killtanks and 1 Bursta Kannon killtank is still cheaper than a stompa...
And realy all you lose is the S20 melee (oh nooo....)

thats...just hilarious

 Vineheart01 wrote:
what the hell....

2x Gigashoota killtanks and 1 Bursta Kannon killtank is still cheaper than a stompa...
And realy all you lose is the S20 melee (oh nooo....)

thats...just hilarious

Huh....I didn't realize that was the case. That is....really sad.

The fact that the kustom stompa is priced at 800 doesn't bode well for our 9th ed codex Stompa having a reasonable price, so either we have to hope that GW somehow make it worth that much (HA!) or we'll be skipping it as a choice for yet another edition.

It makes me wonder if they meant 375 base for the killtank not 275.
275 feels really cheap. Even if its base gun is only 1d, its 30 freaking shots on a phat as hell tank.

375 would be too much imo given its current profile but its more in line with ork supers. Since currently all of our supers except the killtank are criminally overpriced.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
It makes me wonder if they meant 375 base for the killtank not 275.
275 feels really cheap. Even if its base gun is only 1d, its 30 freaking shots on a phat as hell tank.

375 would be too much imo given its current profile but its more in line with ork supers. Since currently all of our supers except the killtank are criminally overpriced.

Very possible, I guess we'll see when they do the next round of chapter approved points changes at some time in the future if they alter the prices at all for the FW Ork stuff.

Hey just wanted to say thanks to all the folks that offered advice. Didn't have a chance to thank folks before the FW rumors dropped. Lots of good stuff to chew on while I wait for my models to come in.

What's people's thoughts on the supakannon battlewagon? Looks to be about 175 with BS4 and the same gun profile as before. Doubt it's as good as the boomer but doesn't seem too awful for the points like it was when it was 230 before.

cody.d. wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
What base size is the biker boss supposed to be on these days?

Pretty much a termie base cut in half with a square ogre base stuck in between the halves.

I've literally built my own biker bases (of various sizes) this way. It's fairly easy but time-consuming, so only really recommended if you can't get hold of 'proper' bases at a reasonable price and do have spare round and square bases.

Well, I model my buggies per 3 pieces, I finished 3 jets and now I slowly workigng on 3 trukks and wagons.

I haven' t expeceted to model 3 killtanks...

But honestly, I think I skip this phase to something, that fits in my shelf... this killtank season will be dead in 6 months.....

Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.

will the Kill Tank benefit from culture if it is LoW?

 Nora wrote:
will the Kill Tank benefit from culture if it is LoW?

Depends on the detachment you use to bring it.

Super-heavy auxiliaries never benefit from army rules, super-heavy detachments do.

So i'm certainly getting at least one kill tank, because I always loved the model. May try and scratch build a few more cause that's also super fun. It's also worth noting that although it's a titanic it can't actually fall back and do anything can it? Passangers also can't shoot sadly. Still could be worth having a small unit of 12 boyz hanging on to capture objectives after the dakkatank charges into combat.

TITANIC units can fall back and shoot, but not charge.

Whilst I appreciate that the stompa is still ludicrously overpriced, now we have some comparatively cheap lords of war, we could bring one in a superheavy detachment and get a kulture on it, and 2 other tanks to boot. Don't know if that makes it even remotely more tempting.

In other news, has a game against the new Necrons this weekend, and miraculously won!

Lists:


The game:

We played mission 2, which was 4 objectives and long board edges. I took the secondary with the mission, to make his objective worth more to me, as well as fight in all table quarters and investigate sites, which I forgot to deploy well for so only got 3 points for all game. He took slay the warlord, awaken machines, and attrition.

I got turn 1, and promptly rammed half my army down his throat whilst the boys, buggies and mek guns took up positions on objectives. My opening salvo was quite effective, but was shut down quite effectively by we'll be back - that rule's pretty beastly now, the only real casualty was his resurrection dude, who died. I then charged, and overwatch from the warriors killed both my deffkoptas dead - damn 5+ overwatch stratagem! Then 1 unit of bikers, the nob bikers and the defkilla hit home and killed a lot of warriors. He rolled a 1 for morale, unfortunately.
His return was brutal. The warriors fell back, and the warriors with carbines behind stepped up and wiped out the bikers and all but 1 nob. The immortals were on the flanks and shot the boys and another unit of bikes. The bikes lost 2 models, and the boys were halved, then charged by destroyers and scarabs and wiped out. The overlord charged my wartrike, thinking to kill him off, and I popped overwatch for the heck of it. Double 6 with Gorks Roar in melta mode. Ouch. Converted one and got 4 damage, leaving him on 1 wound. He then fought me, and killed me, and I popped orks is never beaten and took him with me. Then he got back up. Luckily, he can only do that once per battle.

My turn 2, the boys and buggies move up the left flank, the bikers move to surround immortals. Kommandos appear and investigate sites. The mek guns focus on the destroyers if they can, and the bubblechukka uses the blast rule to throw 6 shots at the warriors with carbines, killing a few. Bikers fall back from scarabs and the boys and buggies and other bikers charge in.

His turn 2, the destroyers kill the kommandos, and the scarabs (2 left) are surrounded so I am locked in combat and my 20 boys, 2 buggies and 4 bikers are safe. Immortals charge them to try and kill them off, and get slapped to the ground for their troubles. Short range warrios use veil of darkness to appear behind my mek guns, and kill 2, denying them the charge they needed to get onto the objective. Scarabs get killed off and my army is loose for their third turn.

My turn 3, the lone biker who fell back moves onto an objective, staying as much out of sight as he can. boys move across the field towards the enemy. Buggies also move to intercept. The combined efforts of most of my army take out the last destroyers. mek guns slap some wounds off the destroyer lord, who drops to 1 wound. The buggy charges, but I forget to use ramming speed and roll a 3 for inflicting mortal wounds. Subsequent attacks fail to wound him, and his response takes 3 wounds off.

His Turn 3, the necron lord holds his home objective, and the scarabs hold the one on my right flank. The destroyer lord kills the buggy, and his warriors move onto my home objective, killing the last smasha gun. no-one can see my lone biker! Warriors move towards the fought-over objective on my right, which has bikers and buggies fighting scarabs and destroyer lord, and charge the bikes. destroyer kills the buggy, which explodes and kills the lord(woo!) who gets up (boo) with 1 wound (yay).

My turn 4, the other buggy rolls into the destroyer lord with ramming speed and kills him, fails to roll a 4+ for the scarabs though. bubblechukka knocks a couple more warriors over but they get back up. Boys charge the overlord and kill him successfully, claiming the objective. The last scarabs die but there are warriors there so no objective for me.

His turn 4, bubbechukka dies to warriors who now regret being so far from everyone else. Warriors kill another biker on my right. his cryptek moves to shoot my lone biker, but flubs his rolls!

My turn 5, lone biker smugly holds an objective on his own for the third turn in a row, netting me 7 points (2 extra for the mission secondary I took), boys get me 8, but alas he has 2 as well so no extra 5. my units fall back from the combat over the right hand objective and the wazbom tries & fails to finish off the warriors there.

His turn 5, he basically holds 2 objectives.

End of the game, I had netted 61 points to his 56. It was incredibly close, and exceedingly good fun.


Things I took away from necrons:

-They are very good at laying down -1 or -2AP firepower. Deffskull Boys can easily shut down their whole thing, as can KFF'd boys.

-Necron warriors suck in combat, so punching them is far better than trying to outshoot them.

-MSU is very bad vs necrons, as they roll WBB after the unit has finished its attacks - relying on multiple units to chip away at them is far inferior to wiping them out in one hit. If you wipe out the unit, they can't come back.

-Anything which kills without being an attack (EG exploding vehicles, charge-wounds, redder armour in a vehicle, etc) doesn't trigger WBB, so is a good way to reliably kill off a few models.

-Killing multi-wound models, you're best off killing 1 model if you can. Kill 2 and there's a good chance one is coming back, and half your firepower is wasted. Kill one, and they have to succeed on every dice to bring him back, so it's more reliable to kill multi-wound units either all at once or one at a time, nothing in between.

Units I would recommend against the Necrons:

-Boys, with KFF cover. Half their expense is in having decent AP, KFF ignores that pretty well. put anything with a 4+ in there and their AP is working again.

-Smasha Guns - the Destroyers have a stratagem to give -1 to wound against them, which puts S4 guns woundng on 6's, which is bad news. Smasha guns roll to wound in their own way, so don't care. Also 3 wounds and D6 damage makes smashas ace at taking these buggers down.

Anything low-wound. Necrons have a serious penchant for high-damage guns, and most seem fixed - 3 damage, not D3, or 6 damage, not D6. Make them scrap their plans by bringing out the boys - tankbustas, lootas, boys, grots, and a few KFF to have a chance of surviving. I think that an Evil Suns footslogging horde, with bosses to give them advance and charge, will do pretty well. By turn 2, I'd expect to be pulling off some charges. Da Jump on turn 1 could help as well.

tulun wrote:
Also, fun aside:

Your Warboss on Bike can be T8.

I mean, just do it once for the lulz.

Well with T8 marine captains running around hardly seems unreasonable ork warboss on bike is one

Told my rooommate about the new bikerboss stats and what i had in mind. He isnt looking forward to that lol...

1 boss on bike w/ Killaklaw
1 boss on bike w/ Killsaw + Brutal trait + Biggest Boss

Thats 2 fast as hell T7 7/8W models with 5/6 attacks that hit at S12 Ap3/4 flat3 damage on the charge. Killsaw hits on 3s, but rerolls failed hits at least. For 230pts lol.

Oh i am gonna have fun with this...

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.

Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.

cody.d. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Okay, so reading the points page in the FW book (on the video others linked earlier) from what i'm understanding with the blurb up the top the points is including the base wargear. So in the case of the grot tank that is 35 points for the grot tank and the big shoota but you can drop the big shoota for a skorcha at the cost 10 points extra correct?

Not quite. It shows CHEAPEST configuration which might not be same as datasheet has on default...

Basically you take the basic price and then check if any of your wargear are mentioned in the point cost.

Now I don't know if there's any where this comes into place in ork FW book but necron codex has couple units that has gauss cannon as default wargear with option to swap it to tesla weapon. In points gauss is meanwhile the one you pay for the price...

(Really wish datasheet had cheapest as default)

It gets a little odder as with the grot tank example the KMB and RL cost 10 which is what you'd normally pay for them, but the Skorcha is 10, 5 points cheaper than normal. And I think the mega tank has a different price for skorchas yet again. if the KMB and RL cost 5 for example (5 for the big shoota baked in which you then exchange) it'd make more sense to me.

Though i'd still say KMB may be the most tempting option for the grot tanks. But then they just feel like a kinda more mobile but weaker version of Mek Gunz.

Oh that's because the cheapest option is more expensive than 0. Part of weapon cost is baked in.

Say you　have unit of marines where each carries heavy bolter(10 pts) as bare minimum but can upgrade　to lascannon(15). Point sheet thus would show lascannon as +5 with　cost of heavy bolter　baked in

9e you don't　have model base cost and universal weapon cost　list. Instead each datasheet has cost based on itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wojtekwroc wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.

Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.

If you make models for　originally　resin models that's what you get.

Well, for 12 years I wasn't following wargaming scene.
I will use them as legends in friendly games. I will figure other approach for competitive play, if I desire some salt of course.

wojtekwroc wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.

Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.

In all fairness, Chinorks haven't had an official model sold in nearly 10 years. It was very likely to be cut.

Kill tanks probably won't be cut, but 275 almost seems... off? Or are Orks just not used to having nice things?

Vineheart01 wrote:

Told my rooommate about the new bikerboss stats and what i had in mind. He isnt looking forward to that lol...

1 boss on bike w/ Killaklaw
1 boss on bike w/ Killsaw + Brutal trait + Biggest Boss

Thats 2 fast as hell T7 7/8W models with 5/6 attacks that hit at S12 Ap3/4 flat3 damage on the charge. Killsaw hits on 3s, but rerolls failed hits at least. For 230pts lol.

Oh i am gonna have fun with this...

I was thinking of doing the same next game I play, although I might not because it might be too mean. I'd give the Kill saw guy the flat 3, to have 2 units with it. I think that's better than having 1 flat four.

Plus, the Kill saw guy hits on 3s, so re-rolling all hits is actually very clutch.

Edit: oops, yo're doing that.

tulun wrote:

wojtekwroc wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.

Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.

In all fairness, Chinorks haven't had an official model sold in nearly 10 years. It was very likely to be cut.

Kill tanks probably won't be cut, but 275 almost seems... off? Or are Orks just not used to having nice things?

Vineheart01 wrote:

Told my rooommate about the new bikerboss stats and what i had in mind. He isnt looking forward to that lol...

1 boss on bike w/ Killaklaw
1 boss on bike w/ Killsaw + Brutal trait + Biggest Boss

Thats 2 fast as hell T7 7/8W models with 5/6 attacks that hit at S12 Ap3/4 flat3 damage on the charge. Killsaw hits on 3s, but rerolls failed hits at least. For 230pts lol.

Oh i am gonna have fun with this...

I was thinking of doing the same next game I play, although I might not because it might be too mean. I'd give the Kill saw guy the flat 3, to have 2 units with it. I think that's better than having 1 flat four.

Plus, the Kill saw guy hits on 3s, so re-rolling all hits is actually very clutch.

Edit: oops, yo're doing that.

its off when you think about the fact that its cheaper than a gorkanaut/morkanaut and is titanic + a lord of war when neither gork nor morkanauts are.

We have a unit with more hp and more/at least equal to firepower at range, that is cheaper.

weird. It will either be corrected in the codex when ever that happens or im guessing there are price reductions incomming for the gork/morkanauts.

dont you dare talk that way it makes it sound like its possible they'll shunt the nauts to LoW.
Which in 9th, would utterly kill them off.

I bet the Mork / Gork get the monolith treatment.

They are freaking bigger than a Kill Tank.

LoW just need to be not so.. inaccessible.