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Hey all, new to Orkz and Im shocked how long it took me to start them!

Quick question on Ork nobz (non Mega armour variety), I love the models and I've been thinking of running two squads of 5, boss with Pk and choppa and 4 with big choppas/choppa all for around 115 pts seems to be very nice squad to maul most targets sub T8 and get good rerolls on the klaw and obsec from Deffskulls.

Is this a decent idea (if using a trukk to get about as a cheap threat for the hordes of boys running up or other trukks with nobz) or am I just in love with a bad idea?

I have had very lackluster experiences with the regular Nobz.
I used them against Necrons a couple of times, and they don't quite have the hitting power to wipe large Warrior squads. This means that the squad can reanimate and fall back, and the Nobz will be blasted to bits by another squad. T4, W2 and 4+ save is not durable enough to stay alive in the middle of the field.

5 deathskullz nobz on a trukk compete with 12 trukk boyz (including a klaw/saw). Both are decent for surgical strikes, they lack hitting and staying power but can threaten smaller squads of specialists. Boyz will probably cause less damage but they're also more bodies for the obj sec purpose.

Meganobz are the heavy hitters.

Multiple squads of nobz are probably hard to field without regretting them, and definitely you don't want them riding on the same transport, but a single squad of deathskullz trukk nobz along with a list that has synergies with it can work decently, at least in friendly to semi-competitive metas.

Ah thats good, my thinking was two trukks, one with nobz, one with trukk boyz or tank bustas and a 3rd trukk with Mega Nobz all speeding up with other threats for mid field overload n deffskulls

I like running a squad of 10 nobz with 2 ammo runts to absorb the disembarkation deaths that occur when the trukk they are riding in inevitably gets destroyed.

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:
I like running a squad of 10 nobz with 2 ammo runts to absorb the disembarkation deaths that occur when the trukk they are riding in inevitably gets destroyed.

Sounds like a gamble as the 11-12 man squad can also get max shots against blast weapons if only 0-1 models die from the destruction of their transport. Those 2 ammo runts that on paper should keep the nobz alive for longer can actually make the unit disappear faster.

Personally I'd field 9 nobz + 1 ammo runt if I want a large squad.

 Blackie wrote:

Big Mek Sparknutz wrote:
I like running a squad of 10 nobz with 2 ammo runts to absorb the disembarkation deaths that occur when the trukk they are riding in inevitably gets destroyed.

Sounds like a gamble as the 11-12 man squad can also get max shots against blast weapons if only 0-1 models die from the destruction of their transport. Those 2 ammo runts that on paper should keep the nobz alive for longer can actually make the unit disappear faster.

Personally I'd field 9 nobz + 1 ammo runt if I want a large squad.

You know what, that just sounds objectively better. Thank you.

10 Nobs with Kombi Skorchas in trukk > 12 Burna Boyz in trukk. Thanks GW.

 Boris420 wrote:
10 Nobs with Kombi Skorchas in trukk > 12 Burna Boyz in trukk. Thanks GW.

I'll do you one better, just take 3 kustom boosta blastas with squig-hyde tyres and you'll probably do more (and actually be in range for the flamers) than the 10 Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas or the Burna Boyz.

Skorchas need a points cut down to 10, both Skorchas and Burnas need that range boost to 12" and my god do burnas need to at least do D6 shots in shooting.

But yeah, GW really like making generalist units within an army do a job better than specialists sometimes.

quite frankly i dont even care if they buff burnas to get an AP, just give them back D6 shots and 12" range.
Its so stupid that they cost THAT MUCH and do D3 S4 AP0 attacks.

In new upcoming codex for Orks, do you think they'll give Choppas +1ap?

My mate was pondering and said back in WHFB Orcs got +1 str on a turn they charged or were charged (which also translated to -1 to enemy armour saves) and I feel that would be a cool way to represent the initial outburst of violence Orks are most famous for

Also gives choppa boys a hell of a better bump vs all the armour heavy targets these days

It seems like they are giving all melee weapons which are actual weapons (swords, knives, axes, maces) at least AP-1, no AP remains reserved to models fighting with their fists.
So it's possible that choppa boyz or nobz will be hitting with AP-1 while shootas, tank bustas or lootas remain at AP0.

However, considering the massive amount of changes done to death guard (a rather neglected army in 8th), we might have a completely different army at our hands once the codex drops, and most things we see as gospel today will be invalidated.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
quite frankly i dont even care if they buff burnas to get an AP, just give them back D6 shots and 12" range.
Its so stupid that they cost THAT MUCH and do D3 S4 AP0 attacks.

We live in an era in which everything rolls tons of dice and yet GW is scared to let burnaboyz roll theirs .

10-12 burnaboyz in a trukk are (and will likely stay) 200ish points for a unit that should roll 30-40 dice on average and only if they are very close to their target. It doens't sound that insane comparing to the firepower and/or number of attacks many recent (and some old) units have.

12ppm for D6 autohits at S4 AP-1 or S4 AP-3 in combat if they didn't fire is what I wish they'd get. It's actually very close to what they used to have once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
In new upcoming codex for Orks, do you think they'll give Choppas +1ap?

My mate was pondering and said back in WHFB Orcs got +1 str on a turn they charged or were charged (which also translated to -1 to enemy armour saves) and I feel that would be a cool way to represent the initial outburst of violence Orks are most famous for

Also gives choppa boys a hell of a better bump vs all the armour heavy targets these days

+1 S is already merged into the current ork profile. Orks used to be S3 base, eventually with +1S if they charged, for several editions. I'd prefer +1 A if they charge, charged, heroically intervened. I mean SM have it, I don't see why orks shouldn't get it as well.

 Blackie wrote:
+1 S is already merged into the current ork profile. Orks used to be S3 base, eventually with +1S if they charged, for several editions. I'd prefer +1 A if they charge, charged, heroically intervened. I mean SM have it, I don't see why orks shouldn't get it as well.

Eh, they should just give them +1A then. I'm very glad that they removed the "you get +1A except sometimes" rule from DG.

No, please no more attacks on normal boyz. They get enough attacks and it's just that they bounce off everything sans other boyz/cultists. I don't think another 30 attacks are actually going to scare those DG termies and the like, it's just going to take an even longer time to roll. Some flavour of getting AP-1 on choppas is what I want, either through a statline upgrade on the choppa or just Orkz getting +1 AP on the charge as I've suggested before.

Nobz on the other hand could easily get another attack (or just make 'em T5)

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
+1 S is already merged into the current ork profile. Orks used to be S3 base, eventually with +1S if they charged, for several editions. I'd prefer +1 A if they charge, charged, heroically intervened. I mean SM have it, I don't see why orks shouldn't get it as well.

Eh, they should just give them +1A then. I'm very glad that they removed the "you get +1A except sometimes" rule from DG.

Agree, unfortunately GW loves rules bloat. SW trait is still "you get +1 to hit except sometimes". On top of doctrines and other 6-7 general rules shared among SW units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
No, please no more attacks on normal boyz. They get enough attacks and it's just that they bounce off everything sans other boyz/cultists. I don't think another 30 attacks are actually going to scare those DG termies and the like, it's just going to take an even longer time to roll. Some flavour of getting AP-1 on choppas is what I want, either through a statline upgrade on the choppa or just Orkz getting +1 AP on the charge as I've suggested before.

Nobz on the other hand could easily get another attack (or just make 'em T5)

I'd love boyz, regardless of their number, to have 4 attacks base each, like they had in previous editions if they charged. To me it's 10 man squads that should do some work, not the 30 man blob. 2A base + 1 for choppa + 1 for charging, all (but the nobz special weapon's attacks) at AP-1 could be the right answer.

The blob should be played for the number of wounds, immunity to morale failure and the horde playstyle, not because otherwise boyz don't do jack in combat. With the nerf of the klaw since the transition between 7th and 8th smaller squads of boyz aren't killy enough to be justified outside the tax or niche role; IMHO it's a problem. And with the current engagement rules 10-12 boyz roll the same dice than 30 boyz, barring the horde bonus (which I'd like to be triggered at 11+ bodies, like blasts malus).

 Jidmah wrote:
It seems like they are giving all melee weapons which are actual weapons (swords, knives, axes, maces) at least AP-1, no AP remains reserved to models fighting with their fists.
So it's possible that choppa boyz or nobz will be hitting with AP-1 while shootas, tank bustas or lootas remain at AP0.

However, considering the massive amount of changes done to death guard (a rather neglected army in 8th), we might have a completely army at our hands once the codex drops, and most things we see as gospel today will be invalidated.

See Ive been saying this the whole time I think our new Codex will be a totally different beast than what it is now just from looking at what they have done so far with Necrons, Deathguard and Dark Angels (I dont think Space Wolves and Blood Angels really changed dramatically like the others). Dark Eldar will be the next indicator of how far GW could change a faction and maybe Admech too if they are out after the Drukhari.

Im pretty certain Choppas will get AP-1 or Goffs will have an additional AP on the charge like with what some Dynasties and Holy Orders get. Plague Knives have -1AP, Astartes Chainswords do, maybe Hekatari Blades will with DE. I just dont know how that will effect Big Choppas, will they become AP2, but then what about Power Stabbas, will they just become orky Power Swords?

I have a big feeling Waaagh! will change in a more powerful and meaningful way which will drastically shape the army more than just an advance and charge mechanic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
No, please no more attacks on normal boyz. They get enough attacks and it's just that they bounce off everything sans other boyz/cultists. I don't think another 30 attacks are actually going to scare those DG termies and the like, it's just going to take an even longer time to roll. Some flavour of getting AP-1 on choppas is what I want, either through a statline upgrade on the choppa or just Orkz getting +1 AP on the charge as I've suggested before.

Nobz on the other hand could easily get another attack (or just make 'em T5)

A lot of combat centred armies have more than just mass attacks (although have that too). They have rerolls either to hit or to wound, mass AP, ways to boost their hit/wound rolls, strats that further improve melee output and tricks around pile ins and consolidates. AP 1 can be largely ignored by some armies and whilst it is nice id rather Orks have other ways to boost their melee damage in addition. Im also not a fan of just throwing more dice at the problem, statlines and wargear are already starting to get inflated in 9th but I guess if everyone is like that then its the new normal....

AP1 is a good start on Choppas but some other combat synergies would be nice too, and for the love of Gork can Boss Nobz be more beefy. All he does is give Leadership 7 to other Nobz and Meganobz... he should be like other sergeants and get +1 attack also, hes the Boss of the Nobz, why isnt he more brutal and violent than the mob he leads.

For boyz, bring back the Choppa Rule (5th edition?) - limits opponent armor save to 4+.
You could really tear thru a unit with that.

Goreshrek wrote:
For boyz, bring back the Choppa Rule (5th edition?) - limits opponent armor save to 4+.
You could really tear thru a unit with that.

I feel like that AP-1 for choppas makes a lot more sense personally. It would already make most marine units without storm shields or terminator saves go to a 4+ save anyways, while also providing utility against non MEQ forces. Also, it never made sense to me that a weapon that is effective against heavy armour is somehow less useful against less armoured units.

Goreshrek wrote:
For boyz, bring back the Choppa Rule (5th edition?) - limits opponent armor save to 4+.
You could really tear thru a unit with that.

3rd edition actually .

Ah, yes. Somewhere I still have a bottle of tears from Marine players who liked to field Terminators. Happy days.

i never understood that rule either, especially since it was a very common weapon.
Basic troopers with effectively AP-2 weapons against bigdog enemies? wat?

I Think ive missed that the chinork, legend og not, is a dedicated flyer? So you can use flying headbutt with it.

you can now yes, in the past it was a dedicated transport and the strat looks for Aircraft role.

Course the Chinork is a steaming pile of squig gak now so even if legends is allowed why would you use it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you can now yes, in the past it was a dedicated transport and the strat looks for Aircraft role.

Course the Chinork is a steaming pile of squig gak now so even if legends is allowed why would you use it.

For real, it was nice while the Flight of the Vorkyries lasted :(

Goreshrek wrote:
For boyz, bring back the Choppa Rule (5th edition?) - limits opponent armor save to 4+.
You could really tear thru a unit with that.

I was so sad to lose this rule, I would love to see it return. Especially since it allowed orks to go against the meta which at the time was littered with terminators. On the other hand it meant orks struggled against demons, as you were paying points for a rule that had no effect against that army. Or guard for the same reason as they had few things that had better than a 4+.

Looking at the grot mega-tank, it doesnt look so bad 7 big shootas and 1 shoota at 4+ BS plus dakka-dakka, its BS doesnt degrade either, 11 wounds T6 3+ save all for 90 pts and only a fast attack slot

also the regular grot-tank is pretty garbage imo, unless you just want a cheap screening unit in a fast attack slot to fill a brigade or something

The regular grot tanks are, sadly, pretty terrible. But they are cute and fun. The mega grot tank lost a couple of its fluffy rules but it's almost okay now. It has a couple of issues though:

1, It competes in the same slot as the superior buggies

2, 90 points isn't a lot but big shootas are terrible so any "real" loadout is 160 points, with either KMBs or rokkits. Since the big shootas are free (ie already included in cost) shouldn't the rokkit or KMB only be a 5 point upgrade per weapon? A 35 point shave would've made them interesting.

3, Grots and their general lack of grot mobs. An all KMB mega tank with "Cheeky zoggers" is actually not bad but now it's costing you 160 points and a whole 'nother detachment.

bat702 wrote:
Looking at the grot mega-tank, it doesnt look so bad 7 big shootas and 1 shoota at 4+ BS plus dakka-dakka, its BS doesnt degrade either, 11 wounds T6 3+ save all for 90 pts and only a fast attack slot

also the regular grot-tank is pretty garbage imo, unless you just want a cheap screening unit in a fast attack slot to fill a brigade or something

Bringing 7 of a bad and inefficient gun doesn't make it great

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i never understood that rule either, especially since it was a very common weapon.
Basic troopers with effectively AP-2 weapons against bigdog enemies? wat?

I think it was more just representing the sheer ferocity of Orks in melee. Its resembled in Purging of Kallidus, when the Orks fight the Dark Angels they dont just go in flailing, they pin the Marines to the ground, hacking at joints and weak spots, the Marines literally get dog piled by 3 or 4 Orks hacking away whilst hes on the ground or in a choke hold, pulling arms off, twisting and yanking at your head, lobbing off legs at the groin or knee. A Terminator might be able to take a direct hit, but when this slow and ponderous hulk of metal just gets over ran by brutes who fight dirty and without honour... No amount of armour will protect you from a mob of Boyz. Thats why the best armour youd get would be a 4+. Not because Choppas were just magic plasma cutters, but instead representing the way Orks fight. As Gorgutz would say "Fight like an Ork!".

We only really see fighting from a Space Marine's perspective, where they just go full Doom mode against hordes of endless Orks/Nids, so people dont really see how Orks fight in novels. It isnt elegant or honourable. The Ork wants you dead and so does all his mates, his aggression is always at 11 and it gets even higher. Its like fighting a Gorilla or Chimpanzee, it wont be pretty, no matter what armour you wear.