We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Jidmah**

I was bored and updated the first post. Let the arguing begin

**Vineheart01**

Nope i pretty much agree with it all except i'd probably put the gargsquig even lower.
Seriously they neutered that thing (....kinda funny to say that since its actually modeled with a...ahem...thingy). Even if it didnt cost 3cp to use it i wouldnt use it anymore.

Also i dont see regular squiggoths, bigtrakk, or meka/mega dreads. Assuming no input on them yourself or am i blind?

**Jidmah**

Yeah, there is no real way for me to judge them competitively, and of the few people here who actually use them even less play them against competitive opponents.

IMO ranking FW stuff isn't as important as people usually either know exactly what they are getting into when shelling out for FW models/starting a scratchbuild project or they don't care that much for the gaming value to begin with.

**Vineheart01**

Fair.

FW is expensive enough where i'd hope people arent just buying them willynilly and know what theyre getting into lol

**Kaptin_Grubkrumpa**

What about Nobz on Warbikes? I know they're a FW entry but the models don't have to be from FW. I'd put them in Cyan Teir because they hit hard and have an extreme threat range.

**Grimskul**

Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
What about Nobz on Warbikes? I know they're a FW entry but the models don't have to be from FW. I'd put them in Cyan Teir because they hit hard and have an extreme threat range.

I feel like they're still Blue tier and not cyan personally. Their role as a speedy assault unit is mostly filled by scrapjets and the WB on Warbike at the moment and scrapjets are versatile enough to be good at both shooting and CC, whereas Biker nobz pretty much only have their CC to rely on since their dakkaguns are only useful against chaff units at best. They're still very fragile at their points cost and being 40 points a nob with a killsaw means they are significantly less cost efficient compared to dual killsaw meganobz. I've tried using a full squad before with limited success and it feels like I could have always taken something else that does more than they do. It also doesn't help that most biker units in the game right now just isn't that good since they lack numbers and in our case don't get obsec like Meganobz can from the Deffskullz trait.

**Jidmah**

Huh. I put them in blue, they appear to have gone missing. Will fix later.

**Tomsug**

Big trakk should be there. Cyan tier. It' s pretty usefull unit. Significantly better than trukk for a very good price. Only con is the slot eliminating his use in combination with other more important heavy units like BW or Mek gunz.

I use it like a “better” trukk in my buggy list every game since FW rulebook dropped in pair with deffrola BW. And honestly, he annoys opponents almost the same like the BW except the CC. For the half of the price of BW.

He' s 14” move, T6 W12 for 85p which makes him faster and better price-per-wound than any buggy. His 2 big shootas can (and do) actualy kill some last wounds every game and he deals MW in charge pretty regularly for free and makes opponent to shoot at empty transport.

Trukk is just 20p cheaper for 2 less wounds, 2” less movement and in fact zero combat abilities. After disembark, it' s a useless brick.

Oh yes, and the Big Trakk is a model to win - large footprint and low profile makes him hold objectives far away and hide behind the containers.

**Grimskul**

Tomsug wrote:
Big trakk should be there. Cyan tier. It' s pretty usefull unit. Significantly better than trukk for a very good price. Only con is the slot eliminating his use in combination with other more important heavy units like BW or Mek gunz.

I use it like a “better” trukk in my buggy list every game since FW rulebook dropped in pair with deffrola BW. And honestly, he annoys opponents almost the same like the BW except the CC. For the half of the price of BW.

He' s 14” move, T6 W12 for 85p which makes him faster and better price-per-wound than any buggy. His 2 big shootas can (and do) actualy kill some last wounds every game and he deals MW in charge pretty regularly for free and makes opponent to shoot at empty transport.

Trukk is just 20p cheaper for 2 less wounds, 2” less movement and in fact zero combat abilities. After disembark, it' s a useless brick.

Oh yes, and the Big Trakk is a model to win - large footprint and low profile makes him hold objectives far away and hide behind the containers.

Agreed, the only potential downside to the Big Trakk is that it is worth 2 VP instead of the Trukk's 1VP when it comes to tallying how VP's they're worth for Bring it Down, though if you're going all in on vehicles your opponent would be likely maxing it anyways.

**Bonde**

Jidmah, I was about to ask you for the reason why you put the Gunwagon w. Da Boomer in a lower tier than the Kannonwagon, but then I did the math.

Boomer does 9,3 wounds to a single target before DDD, while the Kannonwagon does 10,5.
The kannonwagon is 10pts and 1 CP cheaper, while also having longer range.

If you can target groups of W1-2 infantry, then Da Boomer would be better, but as far as I can see, the Kannonwagon is better at shooting at elite infantry, vehicles and monsters with its D3.

**Beardedragon**

Why should one equip the Deff dreads with 1-3 KMBs rather than 4?

I mean if you are going deathskullz and go KMBs why not go all 4? If you have 3 of them, and one saw or klaw, you might as well go all 4 id say. If you had 3 KMBs would you really charge the Deff dread in to combat with 1 CC weapon? thats 3 attacks only.

If anything then maybe 2 CC weapons and 2 KMBs.

Personally id probably go all 4 KMBs, as they're dedicated anti tanking with those guns. Might as well keep it full CC or full ranged as i see it. If i run KMBs id try to avoid CC.

**some bloke**

Beardedragon wrote:
Why should one equip the Deff dreads with 1-3 KMBs rather than 4?

I mean if you are going deathskullz and go KMBs why not go all 4? If you have 3 of them, and one saw or klaw, you might as well go all 4 id say. If you had 3 KMBs would you really charge the Deff dread in to combat with 1 CC weapon? thats 3 attacks only.

If anything then maybe 2 CC weapons and 2 KMBs.

Personally id probably go all 4 KMBs, as they're dedicated anti tanking with those guns. Might as well keep it full CC or full ranged as i see it. If i run KMBs id try to avoid CC.

This is something I have been putting a fair bit of thought into for my dreads - I want to run 3 with KMB and shiny bitz as deathskulls for ultimate anti-tank death dealing.

On the one hand, 4kmb is better than 3, and the "unit" gets 3 extra shots out of it.

On the other hand, 3KMB + 1 saw is good for all-rounding, and less likely to be tied in combat. It can also open a vehicle up to finish it off in CC, which also lets it reposition in the charge phase.

In the end, the thing that's swinging it for me is my desire to model the dreads as wielding a single large gun in humanoid arms/hands. The temptation to make that gun a triple-barrel KMB with an underslung saw akin to Gears of War is too great, and is overpowering the quad-barrel KMB!

**Beardedragon**

some bloke wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Why should one equip the Deff dreads with 1-3 KMBs rather than 4?

I mean if you are going deathskullz and go KMBs why not go all 4? If you have 3 of them, and one saw or klaw, you might as well go all 4 id say. If you had 3 KMBs would you really charge the Deff dread in to combat with 1 CC weapon? thats 3 attacks only.

If anything then maybe 2 CC weapons and 2 KMBs.

Personally id probably go all 4 KMBs, as they're dedicated anti tanking with those guns. Might as well keep it full CC or full ranged as i see it. If i run KMBs id try to avoid CC.

This is something I have been putting a fair bit of thought into for my dreads - I want to run 3 with KMB and shiny bitz as deathskulls for ultimate anti-tank death dealing.

On the one hand, 4kmb is better than 3, and the "unit" gets 3 extra shots out of it.

On the other hand, 3KMB + 1 saw is good for all-rounding, and less likely to be tied in combat. It can also open a vehicle up to finish it off in CC, which also lets it reposition in the charge phase.

In the end, the thing that's swinging it for me is my desire to model the dreads as wielding a single large gun in humanoid arms/hands. The temptation to make that gun a triple-barrel KMB with an underslung saw akin to Gears of War is too great, and is overpowering the quad-barrel KMB!

I see what you're going for, but i was thinking, having 3 attacks with a klaw or buzzsaw might not really make any difference at all in the department of getting out of a tarpit situation. So if one were to be an all rounder i feel like going for 2CC weps and 2 ranged weapons woud make more sense.

That or full CC, or Full KMBs.

I have 2 Deff dreads only, which are full CC because i mainly play Goff or Evil Sunz and havent played long enough to be smart enough to magnetize my weapons when i actually received my Deff Dreads. But i could imagine that if i wanted to go ranged Deff Dreads, and REALLY get the most out of that +1 BS from Sparkly bits, then id go for a full load of 4 KMBs or 4 rokkits. having 3 rokkits/KMBs means you waste 1 arm that doesnt receive any benefits from that sparkly bits so thats a damage loss as i see it.

Otherwise just keep it CC friendly with maybe 1 scorcha and 3 CC weps. or full house of 4 CC weapons.

**Jidmah**

Bonde wrote:
Jidmah, I was about to ask you for the reason why you put the Gunwagon w. Da Boomer in a lower tier than the Kannonwagon, but then I did the math.

Boomer does 9,3 wounds to a single target before DDD, while the Kannonwagon does 10,5.
The kannonwagon is 10pts and 1 CP cheaper, while also having longer range.

If you can target groups of W1-2 infantry, then Da Boomer would be better, but as far as I can see, the Kannonwagon is better at shooting at elite infantry, vehicles and monsters with its D3.

Between deathwing, transhuman, gravis, the entire death guard and -1 to hit on many harlequin units there are just too many high level match-ups where you really don't want to have a boomer on your side of the table.

In fact, when I'm currently running a gunwagon, even the zagzap feels like a better choice than da boomer.

BS4 and 3 damage avoid almost many of these problems, so I feel like the kannonwagon deserves to be a full tier higher than da boomer when it comes to bringing a TAC list.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tomsug wrote:
Big trakk should be there. Cyan tier. It' s pretty usefull unit. Significantly better than trukk for a very good price. Only con is the slot eliminating his use in combination with other more important heavy units like BW or Mek gunz.

I use it like a “better” trukk in my buggy list every game since FW rulebook dropped in pair with deffrola BW. And honestly, he annoys opponents almost the same like the BW except the CC. For the half of the price of BW.

He' s 14” move, T6 W12 for 85p which makes him faster and better price-per-wound than any buggy. His 2 big shootas can (and do) actualy kill some last wounds every game and he deals MW in charge pretty regularly for free and makes opponent to shoot at empty transport.

Trukk is just 20p cheaper for 2 less wounds, 2” less movement and in fact zero combat abilities. After disembark, it' s a useless brick.

Oh yes, and the Big Trakk is a model to win - large footprint and low profile makes him hold objectives far away and hide behind the containers.

I see, but how do lists that use them look like? IMO trukks are primarily used in armies that want to bring things like nauts, wagons or mek guns and not waste their slots on something that's "just" a transport.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Why should one equip the Deff dreads with 1-3 KMBs rather than 4?

I mean if you are going deathskullz and go KMBs why not go all 4? If you have 3 of them, and one saw or klaw, you might as well go all 4 id say. If you had 3 KMBs would you really charge the Deff dread in to combat with 1 CC weapon? thats 3 attacks only.

If anything then maybe 2 CC weapons and 2 KMBs.

Personally id probably go all 4 KMBs, as they're dedicated anti tanking with those guns. Might as well keep it full CC or full ranged as i see it. If i run KMBs id try to avoid CC.

In general a KMB is not worth 10 points unless you have deathskulls re-rolls. The more KMB you bring in a unit, the less likely they are to benefit from re-rolls. There have been good arguments for having one, two or three KMB depending on your playstyle, so I just put it down like that. Personally I run 2 and 2 klaws, as I use them as cavalry that needs to be able to help in any situation.

However, the fourth KMB is not only very unlikely to be more valuable than a KMB on a goff or evil suns KMB, but it also completely eliminates the dread's ability to seriously hurt anyone in combat. Even if you try to avoid combat, you probably want it to hold an objective at some point. A dread with even a single saw is a serious threat most obsec units, one without can just be charged by a bunch of tactical marines and loses the objective to them at zero risk for the marine player.

**Tomsug**

Jidmah wrote:

Big Trakk - I see, but how do lists that use them look like? IMO trukks are primarily used in armies that want to bring things like nauts, wagons or mek guns and not waste their slots on something that's "just" a transport.

Liam Hacket triple SAG from Adeliede open is exactly the type of the list - his core is from Fast attack (does not need the transport, but neither the Heavy slot) and Elite, where the Elites needs some transport. Tankbustas or MANz are exactly the type of the crew that benefits form more W and 2” of extra move to get into the position. He used Trukks and I say use Big Trakks willbe also a solid choice, better in some aspects, more expensive on other side.

Or my list

bunch of buggies and 2 transports to carry megamek/warboss cc beast and obsec 10boyz squads with killsaw and the rest are the buggies. No need of heavy slot either.

But I'm don' t have the competitive references from some tournament, I' m not Liam Hacket

I just win a lot games with such list right now despite just a small amount of the experineces behind my belt.

Spoiler:

**Jidmah**

I'm still not convinced. For 9th theory crafting matters less than ever. I really would need to have actual evidence of it running against somewhat competitive lists to properly judge it.

**Beardedragon**

I would just assume if you went for sparkly bits, having 4KMBs would be better than 3, as the last CC arm you give the Deff dread, dont benefit from that 1CP you just paid for.

4 KMBs hitting on 4s is around 50% hit chance. + 1 reroll makes it higher, if you went death skulls of course, which i would if i went KMBs. Otherwise i probably wouldnt use them, unless you do some Buzzgob Shinanigans that i havent tried yet.

Is Buzzgob really that low tho? I mean 100 points for his +1 to hit in shooting and CC phase is pretty good as it combines with Sparkly bits. He effectively turns Walkers in to death machines. Sure he has no KFF but march him behind the Morkanaut and you still get the KFF, and that unit would hit on 3s in the shooting phase.

Mork/gorkanauts hitting on 3s in the shooting phase with sparkly bits? yes please.

Killa Kanz would hit in the shooting phase on 2s if you give them sparkly bits too.

**Afrodactyl**

Bonde wrote:
Jidmah, I was about to ask you for the reason why you put the Gunwagon w. Da Boomer in a lower tier than the Kannonwagon, but then I did the math.

Boomer does 9,3 wounds to a single target before DDD, while the Kannonwagon does 10,5.
The kannonwagon is 10pts and 1 CP cheaper, while also having longer range.

If you can target groups of W1-2 infantry, then Da Boomer would be better, but as far as I can see, the Kannonwagon is better at shooting at elite infantry, vehicles and monsters with its D3.

Out of curiosity, is this after taking Periscope into account?

**zoltan88**

Beardedragon wrote:
some bloke wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Why should one equip the Deff dreads with 1-3 KMBs rather than 4?

I mean if you are going deathskullz and go KMBs why not go all 4? If you have 3 of them, and one saw or klaw, you might as well go all 4 id say. If you had 3 KMBs would you really charge the Deff dread in to combat with 1 CC weapon? thats 3 attacks only.

If anything then maybe 2 CC weapons and 2 KMBs.

Personally id probably go all 4 KMBs, as they're dedicated anti tanking with those guns. Might as well keep it full CC or full ranged as i see it. If i run KMBs id try to avoid CC.

This is something I have been putting a fair bit of thought into for my dreads - I want to run 3 with KMB and shiny bitz as deathskulls for ultimate anti-tank death dealing.

On the one hand, 4kmb is better than 3, and the "unit" gets 3 extra shots out of it.

On the other hand, 3KMB + 1 saw is good for all-rounding, and less likely to be tied in combat. It can also open a vehicle up to finish it off in CC, which also lets it reposition in the charge phase.

In the end, the thing that's swinging it for me is my desire to model the dreads as wielding a single large gun in humanoid arms/hands. The temptation to make that gun a triple-barrel KMB with an underslung saw akin to Gears of War is too great, and is overpowering the quad-barrel KMB!

I see what you're going for, but i was thinking, having 3 attacks with a klaw or buzzsaw might not really make any difference at all in the department of getting out of a tarpit situation. So if one were to be an all rounder i feel like going for 2CC weps and 2 ranged weapons woud make more sense.

That or full CC, or Full KMBs.

I have 2 Deff dreads only, which are full CC because i mainly play Goff or Evil Sunz and havent played long enough to be smart enough to magnetize my weapons when i actually received my Deff Dreads. But i could imagine that if i wanted to go ranged Deff Dreads, and REALLY get the most out of that +1 BS from Sparkly bits, then id go for a full load of 4 KMBs or 4 rokkits. having 3 rokkits/KMBs means you waste 1 arm that doesnt receive any benefits from that sparkly bits so thats a damage loss as i see it.

Otherwise just keep it CC friendly with maybe 1 scorcha and 3 CC weps. or full house of 4 CC weapons.

In my experience, full CC and full ranged deff dreads are both hot garbage. I would consider deff dreads only good in CC against 2 wound troops when they can use the dreaded death machine strategem and make use of their 2-3D weapons. Against nearly everything else they are pretty lackluster due to the fact that they don't have enough attacks to finish a unit and will likely die to the counterpunch because they are paper thin. IMO the best way to run them is as deffskullz with 3 KMB 1 klaw so that, as Jidmah stated earlier, they can maximize the effects of the rerolls and still have a good melee profile to finish things off in cc if they have to. This also keeps them from getting tied up in melee by a shield unit. My experience against most armies with any shooting at all is that if you want them to live past round 2 and get their points worth, tellyport them in, shoot priority targets, and then charge to finish them off or charge a squishy troop unit for dreaded death machine.

**Bonde**

Afrodactyl wrote:
Bonde wrote:
Jidmah, I was about to ask you for the reason why you put the Gunwagon w. Da Boomer in a lower tier than the Kannonwagon, but then I did the math.

Boomer does 9,3 wounds to a single target before DDD, while the Kannonwagon does 10,5.
The kannonwagon is 10pts and 1 CP cheaper, while also having longer range.

If you can target groups of W1-2 infantry, then Da Boomer would be better, but as far as I can see, the Kannonwagon is better at shooting at elite infantry, vehicles and monsters with its D3.

Out of curiosity, is this after taking Periscope into account?

Yes, I calculated with 14 shots on average for the Boomer, and 7 shots on average for the Kannonwagon.

**Tomsug**

Jidmah wrote:
I'm still not convinced. For 9th theory crafting matters less than ever. I really would need to have actual evidence of it running against somewhat competitive lists to properly judge it.

Challenge accepted. I go to find some tournament.

**Vineheart01**

Yeah ive stopped using the Gunwagon unless im running evil sunz. I think its better when it has pure rerolls, especially against 2W models which are abundant these days, but kannonwagon both has range, doesnt need Visions buff to function, and 3D guns are rare in ork lists outside of paper-bustas.
Dabooma 4D6 shots being less damaging than Kannonwagon 2D6 shots just shows how massive hitting on 4s is...

W/o visions i swear i get 2-4 hits with Dabooma on average, even if i get a high number of shots.

**Afrodactyl**

That's definitely a very strong case for the kannon wagon. Realistically at this point I'm only using da boomer for the extra transport capacity.

**Grimskul**

Yeah, I've found da Boomer to be very underwhelming, BS5+ just doesn't cut it for the price you pay for it. GW definitely need to give the gunwagon BS4+ base to make it worth considering.

**Afrodactyl**

I think the biggest killer for the boomer is the CP you have to spend for it. A decent transport size combined with ok firepower is pretty good, but that CP is really holding it back for me.

**Grimskul**

Afrodactyl wrote:
I think the biggest killer for the boomer is the CP you have to spend for it. A decent transport size combined with ok firepower is pretty good, but that CP is really holding it back for me.

Definitely. Frankly speaking, the Boomer should just be the base killkannon statline to begin with. 1D6 shots, especially with orky BS, is kinda garbage when you have the sheer quantity of shots coming from other factions that have similar weapon stats.

**tulun**

Morkanaut is way too high.

Zero evidence this works in any serious competitive list.

Edit: Painboy should be higher. The synergy with Thrakka makes this a good unit simply for that alone.

Has there been any Goff list winning a tournament WITHOUT the goff painboy?

**Jidmah**

Actually, most lists don't bring pain boyz anymore, some even skip KFFs completely.
The medi-squig is a cool trick, but it eats away at the CP you need for expensive stratagems like tide and fighting twice on top of scar boyz. Without a way to boost aura range, revives or multi-wound models to heal, it's just not that useful.

As for the Morkanaut, I have played it a lot, For a mechanized list, it's definitely not a worse investment of points than anything else in that category - especially in regards to the traffic jam issue those lists often face.

**PiñaColada**

I think the morkanaut is fine as either teal or blue, but probably leaning more blue.. If it had 1 less wound on the datasheet I'd call it teal every day, but losing the obscuring rule is a really big deal IMO.

If GW dares give the gunwagon and morkanaut BS4+ base then the heavy support slot is suddenly going to become way more interesting IMO.

**Tomsug**

What is annoying is, that gunwagon is T8 4+ and Kannonwagon T7 3+. I see the different T due the Open top. But save? There is no logic and it makes a mess in the game...

Jidmah, you wrote, that you prefer ZagZap over Da Boomer on Gunwagon. Could you elaborate it? Do you feel that autohitting is strong enough by eliminating all kinds of -1 to hit from terrain and in combination with MW on 9+ to kill terminators?