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tulun wrote:

Oh, fun fact -- according to the leaks, 'ere we go is now re-roll ALL dice, not one or more die. Yay!

But that's worse

Twilight Pathways wrote:

tulun wrote:

Oh, fun fact -- according to the leaks, 'ere we go is now re-roll ALL dice, not one or more die. Yay!

But that's worse

I'm pretty sure they're being sarcastic over how happy they are.

Though tbh, that was one change I was expecting given the trend of how reroll charges abilities have been implemented in both the core rules and in 9th ed codices, you have to roll both now so unfortunately it was on the cards for that applying for orks too.

There is one thing that may be good about the changes in 9th. They are taking rules away or simplifying them, but making units better. So it could help in removing rules bloat to some degree.

Though I might be looking at it wrong, but that’s one way to try and see something positive haha.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
There is one thing that may be good about the changes in 9th. They are taking rules away or simplifying them, but making units better. So it could help in removing rules bloat to some degree.

Though I might be looking at it wrong, but that’s one way to try and see something positive haha.

Unfortunately, if the Charadon books are anything to go by, we're back to specialist detachments again under the guise of Regiments of Renown, with the usual haves and have-nots (that Skitarii Veteran regiment shows how hilariously out of touch GW is when it comes to balance).

I know how much everyone loves to write about how the sky is going to be falling, but keep in mind that both DG and Drukhari also were complaining about how their army was bad and ruined before the full rules were leaked.

All 9th edition codices have in common that established, strong options are taking a hit, while the army as a whole rises in options and power level. There are literally too many changes to predict anything without seeing the whole picture.

My heart leaped when I read about the bonus attack from Waaagh!, my trukkboyz would finally have their 4th attack back, then I kept reading and realized I'm stuck with Speedwaaagh! as I just don't field footbosses.

Which better suits my current army build but I really miss the satisfaction of coordinating my trukks to land right when I call Waaagh! for the boyz to get their charges off. My biggest want for this codex has been for trukk mobs to be worthwhile, and the choppa AP of course is more than welcome but I have a feeling several 10-12 boyz mobs are still not going to have the impact they did in 5th and 6th.

seriously, those leaks cannot be true.
Endless streams of "this is gone" or "this is nerfed" and not a single "we now have this rule" or "now this rule is better"
They dont globally nerf an army. The 7th ork codex was the one time that ever happened and it bit gw in the ass HAAAARD.

edit: Ok, the new article just gave me a massive concern...
Rokkits are Heavy D3 instead of Assault 1, meaning move + shoot issues and can no longer advance and shoot. That is REALLY bad for tankbustas and random boy rokkits, like holy balls royally bad. Hopefully deffkoptas are excellent to pick up the rokkit slack.
Dakka is a crappy Rapid Fire but they make no mention about still being able to adv+shoot them. Did they just block most of our army from advancing?
Bigshoota didnt get buffed at all, still AP0 1D. One can hope that the FW's Free Bigshoota is the norm because it still sucks otherwise.

Positive note, bubblechukkas look rude now (assuming points are good) lol.

Seems the leaks are true, given the last 2 articles have proven them right so far.

And yeah heavy rockets is hilarious. 6’s to hit now just for a random number of rockets being shot? Oof…

I assume (like… surely) there’s gonna be some sweet unit buffs cos atm this looks like a horrific pile of nerfs to an army that doesn’t need it.

EDIT: Why would you ever put a rocket launcher into a boyz squad? D3 shots, hitting on 6’s? 10/10, best game design lol.
I can only hope that Orks ignore the heavy penalty or something.

Yup.
Ork shooting just got whacked by easily 50% their normal potential. Total bs when it wasnt even amazing in the first place.

i swear to god if they dont mention somewhere that you can adv+shoot dakka weapons and the article just didnt mention it....that alone completely screws over orks because almost all of our guns are Dakka or Heavy now.
Atm it seems like KMB/Burnas are the only assaults we got left. That is Grade A gak...

Also i find it insulting that its like +50% shots instead of double shots like Rapid Fire if we also cant adv+shoot them. Bigshootas are still going to be worthless junk were forced to bring...man i hope theyre free...

That is.....sUUUUper weird. Assault weapons have kinda been the Orks things for a while. While I appreciate the extra shots for rokkits (FINALLY), making them heavy really relegates them to taking them only on vehicles, AND making it blast means we can't shoot into combat with them anymore.

I know tankbustas are kinda dead in the water unless they seriously change their bespoke rules to make up for rokkits being heavy or being BS4+ base. That or they have to get way cheaper than they are now.

Also, man, really? At least give AP-1 for big shootas. What a load of baloney. They better not increase BS costs on top of that.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Positive note, bubblechukkas look rude now (assuming points are good) lol.

You allocate targets before rolling to determine what kind of shot you get, so this is basically just random Strength/Damage weapon again except now you just get shafted sometimes.

I get the feeling that Dakka weapons, when proposed, were meant to basically be "Assault +" weapons and function completely like them with the added effect of the half range shot bonus, but somewhere along the line that got lost in communication and by then the wheels were in motion, "exhaustive" playtesting had been done, and by the time the matter was (if it was) brought to the writers attention it was too late - they're committed now, sorry. We won't even get an errata for it because unless it's an obvious function break like untouchable Pteraxii, GW doesn't like to make big rule changes in codex FAQs.

Leak track record is looking accurate now.

Rokkits are purely for vehicles or tankbustas but wow tankbustas

Shootas are worse 9in for extra shots is worse then old dakka rule of extra shot on 6. I was hoping for the boltgun change not this…a few extra shots usually doesn’t mean much when your accuracy is low and the gun has no ap mod and str4.

Bubble chukka I rather have a 2 then 3 roll depends on price but that 3 should have been d3 atks

So far mixed reaction need to see more
Stay calm we only see a very small picture nearly every unit and special rule is changed. For one thing Dakka was changed to be a keyword so that I’m assuming special rules and traits could improve specific section of ork weapons.. i doubt they nerfed ork shooting to be a worse form of assault/rapid fire weapons.
Rokkits are good on vehicles and I’m assuming Tankbustas will be able to overcome the heavy weapon tag somehow..

So, I guess it's 20 shots of big shoota for scrapjets now.

Like the new bubble chucka, but absolutely hate the rokkit change. Seriously, WTF?

gungo wrote:
Rokkits are purely for vehicles or tankbustas but wow tankbustas

Shootas are worse 9in for extra shots is worse then old dakka rule of extra shot on 6. I was hoping for the boltgun change not this…a few extra shots usually doesn’t mean much when your accuracy is low and the gun has no ap mod and str4.

Bubble chukka I rather have a 2 then 3 roll depends on price but that 3 should have been d3 atks

So far mixed reaction need to see more

That's pretty much every Codex release so far. It's the fairly typical doom and gloom (except for Ad Mech, shocker) as people learn things piece meal they try to synthesize it with what's already there instead of going "OK, interested to see how this mixes in what else we get". DG did it with the rumored changes to DR. Necrons did it with Warriors. We're doing it now.

We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.

Are you talking about an AP bonus from speed waaagh? Doesn’t apply to shoota boyz.

Edit: never mind if they’re in a transport it would.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:
We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.

Stage 2 of the Waaaghs starts when Stage 1 ends. So AP-1 at best, and shootas in general aren't bikes or vehicles.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:
We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.

You're reading it wrong twice over. First of all, Stage 1 and Stage 2 are not cumulative, they're degrading. Stage 1 is more powerful with multiple effects, Stage 2 just retains one of them. So for Speedwaaagh! you get the extra ap for both Stages, but lose the other effects in Stage 2. Second of all, said bonus ap is only for Vehicle and Biker units, so boyz won't benefit at all.

Stay calm we only see a very small picture nearly every unit and special rule is changed. For one thing Dakka was changed to be a keyword so that I’m assuming more special rules and traits could improve specific section of ork weapons.. i doubt they nerfed ork shooting to be a worse form of assault/rapid fire weapons. They obviously intended to improve it in specific areas.
Rokkits are good on vehicles (hi killakans)and I’m assuming Tankbustas will be able to overcome the heavy weapon tag somehow..even if it’s just evil suns clan or something.

I like how they messed up "Morks roar" stats. the "old" range is not 30, its 36.

furthermore, out of fear for making my games even longer, the fact i need to measure up the distance and see if its within half range to get dakka and then some models gets dakka others dont, i would have just liked if our old dakka dakka rule simply gave extra hits not hit rolls.


Now you gotta measure from your unit shooting to the enemy, check if you are within half range, and in case some are in within half range, you gotta do mental gymnastics do that calculation for how many shots you end up with. I understand that if you had rapid fire weapons that would be the same, but dakka weapons on 30 ork boys with shootas where some might be within half range and others dont, oh boy. given that we can be a horde army thats.. a lot of stuff to do and not very much time to do it

But as others have said, my main gripe with this is that its a worse rapid fire, and there has been no indication that we can advance and shoot these weapons. I hope we can, because boys tends to advance all the time.

Madjob wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:
We have like, 2-3 days until we see full previews. Additionally - the shootas with a Waaagghh will go to AP -2 in turn 3 if you call it in turn 2. That's no joke from even 12 boyz just shooting. Same with big shootas. Least that's how I'm reading it.

You're reading it wrong twice over. First of all, Stage 1 and Stage 2 are not cumulative, they're degrading. Stage 1 is more powerful with multiple effects, Stage 2 just retains one of them. So for Speedwaaagh! you get the extra ap for both Stages, but lose the other effects in Stage 2. Second of all, said bonus ap is only for Vehicle and Biker units, so boyz won't benefit at all.

They will if you put them in a transport. Which, as an Evil Sunz player - I wave my 24 boyz in Trukks at you with 3 AP -1 shots each now. It's super easy to get into that half range with these smaller boards, particularly for the big shootas. And I'm taking it as half range = every Ork rolled a dakka dakka instead of the couple you'd get normally. Granted I was wrong about how they worded the Waagghh cycle (assumed it stacked). But as an additional aside, the Preview team has mixed stuff up before themselves lol.

Comically, trukk boyz with shootas is somewhat strong during the Speed Waaagh!

Long as theyre in the trukk they get the +1 to Dakka shots and AP+1 so if theyre within 9 thats 4 shots S4 AP1.

....i said somewhat strong not amazing lol. Generally i liked to keep my shoota boyz inside the trukk anyway until it blew up or i needed to camp 2 objectives

I didn't realize that the Speedwaaagh! says IN vehicles... that makes it significantly worse.

If we can still advance and shoot it's really odd that it wasn't mentioned. Also given the dual profile of the scrap jet, the rokkits going to heavy and blast is a straight nerf. Sigh.

These preview articles have been weird though in general. Selling things that are definitely worse (miracle dice) as improved and generally feeling as though they were written by someone with no idea how the previous book worked. It's all 'These new rules are great', followed by worse rules.

Friday is generally crusade previews, so tomorrow will probably be kultures. It'll be interesting to see them sell those as improved.

All said, I'm hopeful dakka will be an assault/rapid fire hybrid because otherwise it's really not worth distinguishing from rapid fire, and we still haven't see the strats and unit upgrades (pay points to get a better whatever) or any data sheet changes.

"in an Ork vehicle [...] unit".

An embarked unit is not considered part of the transport's unit

 Jidmah wrote:
I didn't realize that the Speedwaaagh! says IN vehicles... that makes it significantly worse.

It says "each time a model in an ork vehicle or ork biker unit." I don't think that means models being transported. A biker can't transport models.

 Jidmah wrote:
I didn't realize that the Speedwaaagh! says IN vehicles... that makes it significantly worse.

Given the usual way GW writes rules, it applies to vehicle or biker units, not units in a vehicle. It's 'proper' English but it should be written in a way that's clearer for everyone.


Edit: I was slow, I didn't mean to just become the broken record...

it clearly is referring to transported....what else could that possibly mean since that terminology has never been used before.
i.e. inside a trukk, wagon, rig, etc.

You dont refer to crew as "in" a vehicle, theyre the vehicle.

Ah, I'm too stupid to read, thanks

Kultur previews would be interesting. Rumor is bad moons lost RR1s for 6 inches of range. Goffs plus 1 strength on charge and intervention.

I still expect DS rerolls to change just like salamanders