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 the_scotsman wrote:
oh hey, something random I just noticed as we were having the inevitable "but are we suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuureeeeeeee GW didn't intend for me to be able to have 2 chapter tactics on all my units???" discussion: Flash Gitz have <clan> now. I noticed they weren't in the list of exceptions.

Neat.

Hurray for Flash Gits ! Please, where is that discussion you talk of, that I may rerad it ?

Obviously, "Cant ride in transports' is unintentional and either transports will be reworded to Ork Infantry rather than <clan> infantry or Specialist Mobz will keep <clan> but lose kultur.

I still believe basically by default taking 2 specialist mobs to get a couple trukk boyz/trukk nobz mobs or Pyromaniac'd Burnas will be kind of a default thing you'll see in basically every competitive list.

Nothing earth shattering for sure but I rate it way higher than the frankly terrible kustom jobs. I maybe might do squighide tires on a trukk or bonebreaka that's going to be delivering some turn 1 trukk nobz and nitro squigs doesnt seem too awful but...most of them are just pure ass. I suspect the souped up kustom one is going to get FAQed to only apply to one KMB, too, it mightve survived as is if only dreads could get 4 but with my beautiful grot megatank abusing it I dont think it's gonna fly under the radar.

nah they'll just shaft gretchin even further and say kustom jobs cant affect gretchin units. Since kanz/mek gunz cant use them anyway it doesnt hurt them.

 addnid wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
oh hey, something random I just noticed as we were having the inevitable "but are we suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuureeeeeeee GW didn't intend for me to be able to have 2 chapter tactics on all my units???" discussion: Flash Gitz have <clan> now. I noticed they weren't in the list of exceptions.

Neat.

Hurray for Flash Gits ! Please, where is that discussion you talk of, that I may rerad it ?

Oh, XKC18 was claiming that a couple pages back he didn't think the "except for specialist ladz' line in the clan kultur rules actually meant that specialist mobz lost clan kultur. Now that we have the actual dex wording we know they do (which raises a whole host of other RAW-crowd chicken littling as people are larping that GW will actually leave it so they cant embark on transports.

 Insularum wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
I assume specialist mobs will be faq'd to let them keep their CLAN keyword, and just not benefit from the kultur, I can't think of any issues that would create if they just delete the second part of that sentence.

It's probably good they're restricted to one per detachment, being able to take something that doesn't benefit from your kultur and give it a different one specifically tailored to it is pretty strong - and presumably you can give a morkanaut or gorkanaut big krumpaz so it can actually benefit from a kultur in a SH aux detachment. Which is, you know, fine.

FAQ would definitely help, personally I don't think the abilities given are strong enough to warrant losing clan benefits though (i.e. big krumpaz is no benefit to Goffs at all, sometimes no benefit to freebootas, and never a benefit if you stand next to a warboss).

Unfortunately, leaked images indicate aux detachments can't use specialisms, so while a nice idea I don't think a lone 'naut can do that.

So the only way you can use the naut kustom jobs is if you do a full super heavy detach for 6 CP?

yup, and of course take 3 of them at that.
Fething insulting.

With each release the "um Achshually" crowd must have their little snits - it's why I'd probably advise waiting for at least the 2-week faq to make a new thread lest the first few pages be infested with silly crap claims like 'well in the chinese translation if you translate it back to english the waaagh rule only applies to orc units and since there are only ork units the rule doesnt worrrrrk!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
nah they'll just shaft gretchin even further and say kustom jobs cant affect gretchin units. Since kanz/mek gunz cant use them anyway it doesnt hurt them.

Also a possibility. Damn, I'm going to miss Cheeky Zoggerz......GW was like "no! You're having too much fun! No fun allowed! You'll pay your 5 points for an orders-less save-less laspistol equipped guardsman and you'll LIKE IT!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So in terms of spec mobs that seem to have some good teeth:

-Trukk boyz, seems like a pretty clear way to get some good value out of a troop slot instead of having it be a semi-tax. Boom Boyz on a big unit of tankbustas seems pretty solid, Pyromaniacs on 12 burnas as well seems pretty nice. Various clan kulturs seem to pretty easily outperform flyboyz sneaky gitz big krumpas and madboyz, I guess if you want to run one out-of-character unit in an otherwise all-punchy or all-shooty list theyre good, but I think most ork players will be running lower on slots than on CPs so 2 detachments will be more like the default.

Orrible Gits just seems a waste to bother with. 30 grots with an attendant 'herd are 180pts that I am fairly unconvinced by, and Zogrod seems destined to be one of those units people always conveniently forget when they spin their 'gw always makes the new thing op so they can sell it to people' yarns. You could combo his super grots with orrible gits but....is 30 BS3+ laspistols REALLY worth the 1ppm increase per model and the loss of the squig hound rule the standard runty gets? No. No it is not.

BDBurrow wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
I assume specialist mobs will be faq'd to let them keep their CLAN keyword, and just not benefit from the kultur, I can't think of any issues that would create if they just delete the second part of that sentence.

It's probably good they're restricted to one per detachment, being able to take something that doesn't benefit from your kultur and give it a different one specifically tailored to it is pretty strong - and presumably you can give a morkanaut or gorkanaut big krumpaz so it can actually benefit from a kultur in a SH aux detachment. Which is, you know, fine.

FAQ would definitely help, personally I don't think the abilities given are strong enough to warrant losing clan benefits though (i.e. big krumpaz is no benefit to Goffs at all, sometimes no benefit to freebootas, and never a benefit if you stand next to a warboss).

Unfortunately, leaked images indicate aux detachments can't use specialisms, so while a nice idea I don't think a lone 'naut can do that.

So the only way you can use the naut kustom jobs is if you do a full super heavy detach for 6 CP?

Ouch, that's unfortunate, I hadn't seen that.

Still, there are plenty of uses - taking flyboyz for a plane in a goff detachment, or big krumpas on a bad moon meganobz unit, boom boyz on a goff or snakebite gunwagon, and so on. Basically swap out the CLAN on a unit that doesn't benefit from it for something better. That's actually pretty good when you do want it.

Also, once it gets faq'd so trukk boyz can actually ride in their trukk, can we just appreciate how bananas a unit of nobz rocketing across the table and charging something from 30"+ away is going to be?

If the KJ for BS4 can be selected for 3 nauts, I will spend my 6 CPs and go with three BS4 nauts ! It won't be competitive, but it will be scary !

Still, there are plenty of uses - taking flyboyz for a plane in a goff detachment, or big krumpas on a bad moon meganobz unit, boom boyz on a goff or snakebite gunwagon, and so on. Basically swap out the CLAN on a unit that doesn't benefit from it for something better. That's actually pretty good when you do want it.

Fortunately, this seems to be the ONE THING they didnt screw up with subkultures.
The tellyporta and hit'm harder strats are not <clan> locked. Which si the vast majority of the problems around subkultures.

 office_waaagh wrote:

BDBurrow wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:
I assume specialist mobs will be faq'd to let them keep their CLAN keyword, and just not benefit from the kultur, I can't think of any issues that would create if they just delete the second part of that sentence.

It's probably good they're restricted to one per detachment, being able to take something that doesn't benefit from your kultur and give it a different one specifically tailored to it is pretty strong - and presumably you can give a morkanaut or gorkanaut big krumpaz so it can actually benefit from a kultur in a SH aux detachment. Which is, you know, fine.

FAQ would definitely help, personally I don't think the abilities given are strong enough to warrant losing clan benefits though (i.e. big krumpaz is no benefit to Goffs at all, sometimes no benefit to freebootas, and never a benefit if you stand next to a warboss).

Unfortunately, leaked images indicate aux detachments can't use specialisms, so while a nice idea I don't think a lone 'naut can do that.

So the only way you can use the naut kustom jobs is if you do a full super heavy detach for 6 CP?

Ouch, that's unfortunate, I hadn't seen that.

Still, there are plenty of uses - taking flyboyz for a plane in a goff detachment, or big krumpas on a bad moon meganobz unit, boom boyz on a goff or snakebite gunwagon, and so on. Basically swap out the CLAN on a unit that doesn't benefit from it for something better. That's actually pretty good when you do want it.

Also, once it gets faq'd so trukk boyz can actually ride in their trukk, can we just appreciate how bananas a unit of nobz rocketing across the table and charging something from 30"+ away is going to be?

Yeah, I'm already hyped to get to use my absolutely excessive number of nobz modeled with big choppas again.

They're just such ding dang cool ass models! I can't help it! I bet I can probably field a whole unit of 10.

it is kind of funny to me that GW decided to make "Speedwaaagh" a separate rule, and in order to actually make good use and get good mileage out of Evil Sunz you have to just...totally disregard it and use a normal Waaagh.

Keeping it real for a minute on vanilla orks versus snaggas

You could easily fill three troop slots with snaggas in trucks for 540 points.

Then Mozrog for the requisite warboss with 170.

In a 1500 point list you could then easily fit 3 units of 6 beasthog riders for 450 points.

That would be 54 T6 4+/6++ wounds.

Each model would have 5 S6 2 damage attacks. Each unit would have 30 of those attacks. All with 10" movement speed. You could cast Waaagh with this blob of squig riders and hit the opponent more or less on the same turn after advancing.

You would still have 340 points left over for whatever else you want. Kill rigs, whatever you wanted. You could even delete all three trukks and replace them with kill rigs, with or without weirdboys.

Even without clan rules this is nutty.

Vanilla orks seem pretty good but I just don't see snaggas not being better in all seriousness. Although you'd probably have to take out a loan to field that many squig riders.

I still can't get over how cheap squig riders are or how they all get damage 2 for free. It costs 5 points to get damage 2 on infantry models and then you have to pay transport tax.

Beast snaggas are a paradigm shift. The snagga boys themselves are gits, the squigs are the power play.

yeah, squighog boyz seem at least 10pts undercosted...you nearly get 2 of them for the cost of 1 thunderwolf Cavalry, which has slightly better defensive stats with W4 and Sv3+ but is all entirely D1...

The main downside I can see with them is that they are a turn 2 tempo unit and they are fairly easy to kill a lot of especially if you use Morale to your advantage. If you kill 4/6 you're pretty likely to get an extra one gone just as a bonus and possibly the last one too.

I don't know how great they'll be into the current tournament meta, drukhari I think would be drooling at the prospect of someone handing them a big wall of T6 Sv4+ wounds in super easy turn 1 charge range and admech with skitarii autowounds and tons of high volume S4 AP-1 firepower would just rip them to bits, but they seem hugely undercosted.

Squighog riders plus a beefed up kill rig just kind of screams to me "I WANT TO LOSE TO ADMECH SOOOOOOO BAAAAAAD!"

Zompa wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

Single-model KMBs, single-model buggies, all very spicy, all very good, and you definitely want those 2 units of trukk boyz, 2 WARBOSS models, etc.

I hardly see the benefit of playing 2 WARBOSSES, considering the nerfed BrutalButKunning, "nerfed" KILLA KLAW and the loss of Biggest Warboss they simply aren't that good at punching.

WHAAGH! is now global and you can only declare one anyway, most "tactical" traits you can just drop onto support characters with the Big Boss stratagem so if you want the +1 to hit aura you just drop 70 for a WHAAGH! banner and then give him some support trait.

The only possible reason would be to have some special charachter warboss together with a generic one to use the relics other than that I'd rather bring more toys in the same detachment.

Is brutal but kunning really nerfed? It's more dangerous against targets with an invuln save than it was before.

Brutal but kunning is good but consider what you lost.

There isn't a beatstick model that we know of so far that can even take DKK, which is our damage 3 relic....

And BBK used to give you +1 damage on charge, with full rerolls.

So you've gone from da biggest boss with 5 2+, 2+ rerolls at ap3 with damage 4 to.....

Well, a S9 Ap-3 damage 2 Choppa. Great.

Anyone trying to equate the two seems to be incapable of reading. Megaboss with huge Choppa (or even the killchoppa) puts out nowhere near as much potential damage on high value targets.

Arguably, if you could get a hurrdurr beastboss with the +2 damage strategem you might be able to put out the same kind of hurt for one turn. But I don't see a way to get the same damage output with either a vanilla boss or a megaboss.

Also, -1 damage or transhuman are going to considerably neuter the output.

We've gained a lot more durability with the megaboss in exchange with 7W, 2+/5++ and several intriguing relics like 4++/half damage and a warlord trait that gives -1 to wound.

Anyway, Mozrog has all those things and is cheap with 9 damage 3 attacks and -1 to damage. If you're being serious you would just use him and forget about infantry bosses.

An interesting combo I thought of. With da jump being a much more risky move w/ the nerf to ere we go, you can give a Trukk Boyz warboss the follow me ladz trait, shoot him up the board, da jump a unit next to him, and charge with the warboss first giving the da jumped unit an 8" charge.

Edit: But then your warlord is likely dead in round 2 so you better have another warboss (in another detachment) for WAAGH. Sigh.

 TedNugent wrote:
Keeping it real for a minute on vanilla orks versus snaggas

You could easily fill three troop slots with snaggas in trucks for 540 points.

Then Mozrog for the requisite warboss with 170.

In a 1500 point list you could then easily fit 3 units of 6 beasthog riders for 450 points.

That would be 54 T6 4+/6++ wounds.

Each model would have 5 S6 2 damage attacks. Each unit would have 30 of those attacks. All with 10" movement speed. You could cast Waaagh with this blob of squig riders and hit the opponent more or less on the same turn after advancing.

You would still have 340 points left over for whatever else you want. Kill rigs, whatever you wanted. You could even delete all three trukks and replace them with kill rigs, with or without weirdboys.

Even without clan rules this is nutty.

Vanilla orks seem pretty good but I just don't see snaggas not being better in all seriousness. Although you'd probably have to take out a loan to field that many squig riders.

I still can't get over how cheap squig riders are or how they all get damage 2 for free. It costs 5 points to get damage 2 on infantry models and then you have to pay transport tax.

Beast snaggas are a paradigm shift. The snagga boys themselves are gits, the squigs are the power play.

Snagga boyz are pretty fair compared to normal boyz, I think - I mathed it out and they're about what you'd expect for 2 more points. They really benefit from Goff kultur giving +1 S on the charge though against a lot of things, since going up to S6 lets them wound T3 on 2's. Conversely, Goff boyz will significantly beat beast snagga boyz from any other klan in damage output against all infantry opponents (on the charge at least).

Squighog boyz are going to be amazing, and I'm excited to try them out - the trouble with them is going to be the usual, though. There won't be *that* many of them, and most opponents will have enough mid-tier shooting to deal with them if they focus on them. I think they compare reasonably to warbikers for the same points in a different role.

 TedNugent wrote:
Brutal but kunning is good but consider what you lost.

There isn't a beatstick model that we know of so far that can even take DKK, which is our damage 3 relic....

And BBK used to give you +1 damage on charge, with full rerolls.

So you've gone from da biggest boss with 5 2+, 2+ rerolls at ap3 with damage 4 to.....

Well, a S9 Ap-3 damage 2 Choppa. Great.

Anyone trying to equate the two seems to be incapable of reading. Megaboss with huge Choppa (or even the killchoppa) puts out nowhere near as much potential damage on high value targets.

Arguably, if you could get a hurrdurr beastboss with the +2 damage strategem you might be able to put out the same kind of hurt for one turn. But I don't see a way to get the same damage output with either a vanilla boss or a megaboss.

No offense but you're going off on tangents here, the question wasn't about "has the Killa klaw combo really been nerfed", but your assessment that Brutal But Kunnin' has been nerfed, specifically.

Yes, we lost the damage bonus. But we gained pseudo-reroll to wound and against successful saves. That last one in particular is valuable, because it makes combats with units packing a 4++ (there's a lot of them) far less swingy than an extra point of damage ever did. I think it's been buffed.

Now as to your tangent of, "do we have worse tools (read CC beatsticks)" to take advantage of new BBK, I'd also argue that yes we do. BBK is not married to DKK (though they are like chocolate and peanut butter to be sure). Personally I'd say, let's see what the FW compendium errata has to say about bikerboss loadouts. If he still has a power klaw, then we are 100% golden to continue a reign of terror with that model, maybe not a knight-killing one but anything with 15 wounds or less collectively is in our threat range.

I think BBK will still work well on the likes of the Squigboss (you'll likely be converting some failed to wound chomps into MW), and if the silliness of the Kill Rig stands, 14 attacks all benefiting from BBK is fairly ridiculous as well. We don't have a dead-cheap option that looks good, I agree, but I think we have some good tools for it.

Madjob wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Spec mob

Yup. So, Trukkboyz is nonfunctional. Since you only upgrade a Warboss, Nobz, or Boyz unit and not the Trukk itself, only that unit replaces it's <clan> with <Trukkboyz>, leaving the Trukk with the original <clan> and restricted to only transporting <clan> infantry. They can't get in it.

That ' s epic….

i mean, the FW model that they sell literally only has a power klaw as far as I know...I'd be pretty shocked if they took that away (just as id be pretty shocked if they took power klaws away from the standard WB...who has a power klaw in the only plastic model they sell...)

personally I like BBK better on the models that are less likely to get to the inflict damage step - say, a beast choppa beastboss, or a deffkillas snagga claw. but hey let me put on my 'Um Ackshually Bro' glases for a second:

If the Squigosaur's jaws roll a 6 and inflict 3 mortal wounds, they *TECHNICALLY* do not get to the Inflict Damage step, as the attack sequence ends, so BBK would let you make another bonus attack with the model's Beastchoppa.

Making this combo happen would, of course, instantly win you the game every time as your opponent would instantly flip the table and quit.

Hmm…. It seems that this double-release of the codex has one adventage - they can release an Errata and FAQ before they will release it actually.

why was zodgrod even added to the pre order package?

Hes a useless glorified runtherd, and grots have already been super gutted this edition.

Beardedragon wrote:
why was zodgrod even added to the pre order package?

Hes a useless glorified runtherd, and grots have already been super gutted this edition.

Yeah, I don't know. The wild thing is, I run an all-grot army list, and I have zero use for zogrod. whatever unit of grots I choose to buff, that's just gonna be the one my opponent targets instantly.

They can't all be winners I guess! Never forget folks: GW always makes every new release OP so that people will buy them!

Doesn't seem like this has been shared yet. Our faction specific secondaries have been leaked:

Was just going to post. I like them. 4 VP for killing 2 units in melee is achievable as is camping two 11+ Ork mobz in the home half for 3 VP per turn.

If you play with a killa kan horde then "stomp 'em good" should be easy to score since their kills should be counted towards the score but their deaths are disregarded. Obviously most likely not a fantastic tactic anyways but funny.

I'm personally not sold on these secondaries but that might be because I'll pretty much never use an 11+ model unit, let alone several of them.

The warlord specific secondary is really cool but might be too easy to screen out/hunt down and thereby robbing you of a bunch of VP?

And objectives that are forcing you to do an action where no enemy units are nearby I've been burned by too many times before, I'm sure people can get it to work but again, your opponent has a bunch of agency in screwing that one up for you..

 Grimskul wrote:
Doesn't seem like this has been shared yet. Our faction specific secondaries have been leaked:

Da biggest and da best seems rather trivial to max out against most armies.

GW: "We've introduced a bunch of rules that make big mobs of boyz unplayable."

Also GW: "The new secondaries hugely benefit big mobs of boyz!"

It really is like they had 3 teams designing different parts of the codex and they didn't communicate with each other. These secondaries are absolute trash. I will never take a single one of these over the GT pack secondaries.

Stomp 'em good - Not a good choice if running MSUs

Get da Good Bitz - Would be a take if it was end of turn. End of command phase is too easy to counter.

Da biggest and da best - Warlord is usually dead shortly after making it to combat. It would be hard to score more than 3-5 points w/ this.

Green tide - GW gives us a horde orks secondary in the same codex that they effectively phased out horde orks with rules nerfs.

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm having trouble keeping up and haven't seen a sheet of points costs for the new codex, was it leaked?

Here, take this: https://imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

Points are in the colored boxes.

BDBurrow wrote:
GW: "We've introduced a bunch of rules that make big mobs of boyz unplayable."

Also GW: "The new secondaries hugely benefit big mobs of boyz!"

It really is like they had 3 teams designing different parts of the codex and they didn't communicate with each other. These secondaries are absolute trash. I will never take a single one of these over the GT pack secondaries.

Stomp 'em good - Not a good choice if running MSUs

Get da Good Bitz - Would be a take if it was end of turn. End of command phase is too easy to counter.

Da biggest and da best - Warlord is usually dead shortly after making it to combat. It would be hard to score more than 3-5 points w/ this.

Green tide - GW gives us a horde orks secondary in the same codex that they effectively phased out horde orks with rules nerfs.

I'm just in awe at how bad this codex is.

It does feel designed by committee and the committee had no clue what to do with orks.

Every time I try and come up with a fun list there is some clause or rule that just makes it awkward of annoying.
We are pretty much going to be locked into 3 detachments of some sort.

Its a big hot mess