We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Grimskul**

Vineheart01 wrote:
issue is gretchin have other units than just grot squads, so its shafting multiple units.
Also cultists arent denied literally every single rule their army has. Grots get nothing, not even a subkulture anymore.
Why they dont just flatout cut them from the codex is beyond me since surely it'd be easier than systematically removing every single thing they could possibly boost themselves with.

I mean if I learned anything from GW, they throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to nerfs. I bet you that if cultists had any real representation in the CSM beyond the troops choice that GW would have destroyed those units as well. I guess we could count the loss of the Renegades and Heretics from FW as their equivalent in terms of treatment?

Clearly somebody at GW HQ is traumatized from a Grot Mobz list that pounded their army with Mek Gunz. That or as usual, the lack of Ork advocates/players in GW design team leads to this kind of mess.

**BDBurrow**

Vineheart01 wrote:
issue is gretchin have other units than just grot squads, so its shafting multiple units.
Also cultists arent denied literally every single rule their army has. Grots get nothing, not even a subkulture anymore.
Why they dont just flatout cut them from the codex is beyond me since surely it'd be easier than systematically removing every single thing they could possibly boost themselves with.
Grot squads, the only troop in the game w/o obsec. Cause that makes sense.
Still cost the same as a guardsmen though.

But they do get subkultur! It gives them their obsec ability back in exchange for DEBUFFING any nearby friendly units with a -1 to hit in ranged. /sarcasm

**PiñaColada**

Well, the dakkajet is seemingly 100 points with 4 supa-shootas included and 20 extra if you want all 6 guns. That's hella spicy IMO

**Grimskul**

BDBurrow wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
issue is gretchin have other units than just grot squads, so its shafting multiple units.
Also cultists arent denied literally every single rule their army has. Grots get nothing, not even a subkulture anymore.
Why they dont just flatout cut them from the codex is beyond me since surely it'd be easier than systematically removing every single thing they could possibly boost themselves with.
Grot squads, the only troop in the game w/o obsec. Cause that makes sense.
Still cost the same as a guardsmen though.

But they do get subkultur! It gives them their obsec ability back in exchange for DEBUFFING any nearby friendly units with a -1 to hit in ranged. /sarcasm

Except runtherds, can't forget that. Runtherds are the new meta, they're so OP they're immune to grot stank

**Vineheart01**

Lost Strafing Run though for some stupid reason.

Technically a buff due to the sheer amount of shots it gets but like 2-4 wounds extra at best. Until its almost dead that is.

**PiñaColada**

That is a shame but at least now you can freely split fire. And it's cheap enough that you might squeeze 'em into lists, whereas they were just a bit too pricey before..

On an unrelated note, I do find it funny that Evil Sunz has a relic which you can place onto the Kill Rig. I'm certain the youtube people will find out about that in like 24hrs and start moaning after a short reprieve when it seemed like most relics were inaccessible

Edit: Power stabba confirmed to be 5points. I swear to gork&mork GW if you haven't updated the statline of that weapon I'll spazz out.

**RedNoak**

Spoiler:

however I AM DISGUSTED ON HOW OBVIOUSLY GOOD THE NEW STUFF IS AND HOW MUCH OF THE OLD WORKINGS WERE RENDERED USLESS JUST BECAUSE THEY WOULD DIMINISH THE NEW STUFF and because of some butthurt sm players that got GW's ear

EDIT:
sprap all of the above.. just readthat dakkajet lost strafing run and gretchins dont get kultures... feth YOU GW. now i am mad.

**Kebabcito**

Killrig is a lie.
You must pick the trait of more dmg and the vehicle relic.
Hes not Mortarion, hes a 3+ 6++ vehicle who will just be annihilated turn1 by ever decent army of the game.
Thats why it costs 190p and not 300p. Hes not a telemon, and if you play him he will die turn1 due to lasschikens.

Grots no kultures, Killa Kans were wrong, they cost 55p with rokkits.

I think we are middle tier, we are not tanky and T5 costed us too much resources and mechanisms.

**Grimskul**

I think GW definitely overvalued some of the stat changes we got and overcorrected in the strats and bespoke rules department. We're on Necron esque level from what I can tell, not sure if we're exactly on par but we sure as hell ain't no DE or Admech.

**Madjob**

Keramory wrote:
Feel like the kommandos are missing some weapons on that image leak. Where's the sniper rifle?

I do love the multiple of every 10 have 1x. Get enough of them and not a single ork will be a plain jane!

It's not a sniper rifle, it's just a big shoota. Basically a Mek looked at a human sniper rifle, thought "dis fing is useful, shootin' umies from real far away", tried to loot/recreate it but along the way went "needs more dakka, an needs to be louda so da uvver umies get scared when dey's shot hur hur" until what he ended up with was just a big shoota with a scope on it.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Grots get nothing, not even a subkulture anymore.

They have a subkultur, which exists almost entirely to just give a unit of gretchin Obsec back.

Mixed feelings about BS5+ Dakkajet. First time since the kit was introduced that it won't hit on 4+. That being said, 120 points yippee, I can definitely make room for that.

**RedNoak**

Kebabcito wrote:
Killrig is a lie.
You must pick the trait of more dmg and the vehicle relic.
Hes not Mortarion, hes a 3+ 6++ vehicle who will just be annihilated turn1 by ever decent army of the game.
Thats why it costs 190p and not 300p. Hes not a telemon, and if you play him he will die turn1 due to lasschikens.

put it in a tellyporter. ramming speed it, enjoy SIX s8 ap2 2D, FOUR s7 ap2 3D, FOUR s5 ap1 1D attacks hitting on 3's (2's if its a vehicle or monster)
(oh and of course d3 mw)

EDIT:
you could also top that of with +1 to wound for 2cp
its costly... but what the hell are you spending cp's on anyway? most of the strats are crap
6 cp's and 160 points. or 175 if you want extra d3 mw for shokka hull.

**BDBurrow**

Just read through the crusade rules. More of the same. Some of the agendas are decent. Kustom jobs are gained by spending "scrap points" that are gained in certain agendas, so you have to give up the experience you would have gained from other agendas to be able to purchase them. The relics are hot garbage. The SSAG is our heroic relic so you have to run a regular SAG mek until you get 30 experience.

**gungo**

Zagstrukk is a must take for stormboys
Not just because he is a Goff pk nob stormboy w an invul and rokkits
But he makes all storm boy units reduce thier casualties by half (rounded down). Basically ensuring you only ever loss 1 at max 2 stormboys to morale.

Snikrot is mainly bad for the bloodaxe lock. I’m not even upset about another reroll hit of 1 since he’s not a snagga, freebooter and will be with a bunch of kommandos far away from most warboss aura plus they have built in +1 to wound.

**EldarExarch**

I might be sitting out Orks in 9th edition if all this non-sense holds up. Will definitely wait for FAQ, etc. before making final judgement.

But I will certainly not be opening up my wallet for any of this as currently constructed. A real shame.

Please god GW don't do this to my Eldar too....

**gungo**

Is maddoc the only model missing rules?

Regarding current info
If specialist subkultures are to be limited 1 type per detachment I rather it be limited to 1 datasheet NOT a unit and ONLY replaces your kulture not clan.

There is absolutely no reason Gretchin should be denied kultures. There was nothing we saw that was overpowered

Kustom job should be limit of 1 KJ per unit and buff the unit but the cost paid per model. It makes no sense to limit it to one model units..

If someone can put together all the issues for this codex in one long list it would be great to use for feedback when the codex drops. I’ll look at it more when I get mine

**Insularum**

PiñaColada wrote:
Well, the dakkajet is seemingly 100 points with 4 supa-shootas included and 20 extra if you want all 6 guns. That's hella spicy IMO

It is spicy, but you made the same mistake I did on the 1st glance - it's 100 for the unit and +10 per gun, so 160 with all 6. That's almost comparable shots to a kill tank (or practically the same in a speedwaagh) so still good.

EldarExarch wrote:
I might be sitting out Orks in 9th edition if all this non-sense holds up. Will definitely wait for FAQ, etc. before making final judgement.

But I will certainly not be opening up my wallet for any of this as currently constructed. A real shame.

Please god GW don't do this to my Eldar too....

Specialist mobs seem largely garbage, and some of the key strats being removed hurts, but everything else does seem good - might take some time (and FAQs) to get used to but I think it isn't all doom and gloom.

**Vineheart01**

Insularum wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Well, the dakkajet is seemingly 100 points with 4 supa-shootas included and 20 extra if you want all 6 guns. That's hella spicy IMO

It is spicy, but you made the same mistake I did on the 1st glance - it's 100 for the unit and +10 per gun, so 160 with all 6. That's almost comparable shots to a kill tank (or practically the same in a speedwaagh) so still good.

No its 120. The 9th codices list gear as free if not listed.
Its "Additional supa shoota 10pt" not "Supa shoota 10pt" - the 4 it has innately are free. The datasheet even says "may take additional supa shootas"
Not the same thing.

**BlaxicanX**

Completely unrelated by re cultists vs grots, the CSM codex isn't even out yet and it's entirely likely that cultists (and conscripts for that matter) may be barred from chapter tactics. GW seemingly wants your cheap chaff units to be purely cheap chaff.

**Insularum**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Insularum wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Well, the dakkajet is seemingly 100 points with 4 supa-shootas included and 20 extra if you want all 6 guns. That's hella spicy IMO

It is spicy, but you made the same mistake I did on the 1st glance - it's 100 for the unit and +10 per gun, so 160 with all 6. That's almost comparable shots to a kill tank (or practically the same in a speedwaagh) so still good.

No its 120. The 9th codices list gear as free if not listed.
Its "Additional supa shoota 10pt" not "Supa shoota 10pt" - the 4 it has innately are free. The datasheet even says "may take additional supa shootas"
Not the same thing.

Oh my - flying kill tank spam is going to be hard to resist

**Vineheart01**

pfft hahaha and of course the warlord trait that the Kill Rig is forced to use?
+1 damage to the squig attacks for nearby <clan> squig units.

Neither rig is a Squig. Despite...being pulled by a squig....

**TedNugent**

At least warboss was confirmed to take PK for 100 points. Forced to take Kombi weapon.

Big mek in MA can also take a Killsaw and comes with a klaw. 30 points for KFF. Why. Why would you ever. They also misprinted 4" movement.

Grotsnik is junk.

Lots of incredibly obvious mistakes in this codex, it seems. Ripe for a FAQ. Also rules seem jumbled over each other, some of which seems intentional to ruin certain things.

No nob bikers, no warboss on bike. Not sure if Evil Suns clan rules going to print was intended as a joke.

They were absolutely brutal to Gretchin. They want you taking those snagga gits for sure I guess.

I just don't know if there's even a reason to take a big mek. Why bother. Even with traditional orks, they just seem awful.

Kill rig can only take one relic, beastgob.

gungo wrote:
Is maddoc the only model missing rules?

Grotsnik is literally a painboy with a 2+ ws and a 5+ fnp on self.

**RedNoak**

the Big mek (BS 4+) can take a kustom shoota. so he can basically be equipped with 3 heavy bolters at 18" and 5 heavy bolters at 9"

...not especially super good, but kinda hillarious

**Dendarien**

TedNugent wrote:
At least warboss was confirmed to take PK for 100 points. Forced to take Kombi weapon.

Big mek in MA can also take a Killsaw and comes with a klaw. 30 points for KFF. Why. Why would you ever. They also misprinted 4" movement.

Grotsnik is junk.

Lots of incredibly obvious mistakes in this codex, it seems. Ripe for a FAQ. Also rules seem jumbled over each other, some of which seems intentional to ruin certain things.

No nob bikers, no warboss on bike. Not sure if Evil Suns clan rules going to print was intended as a joke.

They were absolutely brutal to Gretchin. They want you taking those snagga gits for sure I guess.

I just don't know if there's even a reason to take a big mek. Why bother. Even with traditional orks, they just seem awful.

Kill rig can only take one relic, beastgob.

Yeah I am pretty disappointed with our HQ choices. More points saved for the few efficient units we have, I suppose.

**the_scotsman**

Insularum wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Well, the dakkajet is seemingly 100 points with 4 supa-shootas included and 20 extra if you want all 6 guns. That's hella spicy IMO

It is spicy, but you made the same mistake I did on the 1st glance - it's 100 for the unit and +10 per gun, so 160 with all 6. That's almost comparable shots to a kill tank (or practically the same in a speedwaagh) so still good.

EldarExarch wrote:
I might be sitting out Orks in 9th edition if all this non-sense holds up. Will definitely wait for FAQ, etc. before making final judgement.

But I will certainly not be opening up my wallet for any of this as currently constructed. A real shame.

Please god GW don't do this to my Eldar too....

Specialist mobs seem largely garbage, and some of the key strats being removed hurts, but everything else does seem good - might take some time (and FAQs) to get used to but I think it isn't all doom and gloom.

nope - the point cost is 100 base, and +10 for ADDITIONAL supa-shootas. it's 120 with six supa-shootas.

**kingbbobb**

Vineheart01 wrote:
pfft hey guys GW accidentally gave us a way to autokill a plane again.... assuming the rule if a plane cant move minimum range it dies is still around.

Stikka Kannon doesnt exclude aircraft. So long as you dont fire at it at max range it cant fly far enough to satisfy the minimum range.

i thought that too but this is covered under AIRCRAFT AND STRATEGIC RESERVES

"If army is Battle-forged, and an AIRCRAFT cannot make its minimum move, it is placed into Strategic Reserves."

still kind of useful as i guess.... maybe?

**RedNoak**

please stop saying NOPE to every cool thing we come up with -.-

**the_scotsman**

So, let's start talking lists now that we well and truly have the full picture. All this is going to be at least partially based on my personal collection, obviously, what I've got available.

List #1: Let's make that Speedwaaagh Sing

Spoiler:

The main goal of this list is to go as hard as possible into the wall of shooty nastiness from the Speedwaaagh. basically everything is equipped with some kind of dakka weapon, and basically the plan is just to blaze away with maximum firepower and make the most use possible out of the extra shots and AP out of the speedwaaagh.

Hybrid Speedwaagh List

Spoiler:

This list is designed to make use of some of the Evil Sunz specific goodies to create a hybrid melee/shooting turn 1 pressure list. The plan is to use a Speedwaagh turn 1, but use the Fasta than Yous WL trait to enable an advance+Charge (probably with Stormboyz). Couple that with 2 kommando squads and 2 trukk boyz squads that can threaten melee pretty easily turn 1, and I don't really necessarily need to have standard Waaagh capabilities, so i can be free to get the most out of those juicy extra shots and Ap from the speedwaaagh.

And finally...the charge of the light brigade. Soldier on, comrades!

Spoiler:

**RedNoak**

btw.. quick math on the dakkajet:
8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36", BS 4+
-> 9 hits or 14,5 points per hit

9TH:
120points 24 shots 36", 36 shots 18", BS5+
-> 8 hits or 15 points per hit at 36", 12 hits or 10 points per hit at 18"

so got slightly worse at full distance, better at half distance, 10pts cheaper... well, in kontext of this codex that is phenomenal, in context of powercreep and the fact it wasnt really fielded before in 8th... It's not gud.

EDIT:
damn, i forgot dakkadakkadakka -.-

so it would be
8TH:
130 points 18 shots 36" range, BS 4+
-> 10,5 hits or 12 points per hit

so it basically got worse at full range and miniscule better at half range... oh my frikkin god, i cant handle this gak anymore....

**Vineheart01**

kingbbobb wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
pfft hey guys GW accidentally gave us a way to autokill a plane again.... assuming the rule if a plane cant move minimum range it dies is still around.

Stikka Kannon doesnt exclude aircraft. So long as you dont fire at it at max range it cant fly far enough to satisfy the minimum range.

i thought that too but this is covered under AIRCRAFT AND STRATEGIC RESERVES

"If army is Battle-forged, and an AIRCRAFT cannot make its minimum move, it is placed into Strategic Reserves."

still kind of useful as i guess.... maybe?

wait really? i thought that was specifcially going off the board edge
Still useful as it would at least force their flyer to go away for a turn

**kingbbobb**

Vineheart01 wrote:
kingbbobb wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
pfft hey guys GW accidentally gave us a way to autokill a plane again.... assuming the rule if a plane cant move minimum range it dies is still around.

Stikka Kannon doesnt exclude aircraft. So long as you dont fire at it at max range it cant fly far enough to satisfy the minimum range.

i thought that too but this is covered under AIRCRAFT AND STRATEGIC RESERVES

"If army is Battle-forged, and an AIRCRAFT cannot make its minimum move, it is placed into Strategic Reserves."

still kind of useful as i guess.... maybe?

wait really? i thought that was specifcially going off the board edge
Still useful as it would at least force their flyer to go away for a turn

again i thought the same but a friend pointed it out to me, here is the block text version .

"If you have a Battle-forged army, AIRCRAFT units from your army can, in your Movement phase, move off the edge of the battlefield (assuming it has sufficient Move for any part of its base (or hull) to touch the edge of the battlefield). If an AIRCRAFT unit does so, it is placed into Strategic Reserves. Similarly, if you have an AIRCRAFT unit with a minimum Move characteristic that cannot make its minimum move, or is forced to move off the battlefield because of its minimum move, then it is placed into Strategic Reserves. In either case, placing the AIRCRAFT (and any units currently embarked within them) into Strategic Reserves in this manner does not cost any CPs and the unit can be set back up on the battlefield in your next turn, as described in Setting Up Strategic Reserve Units"

that rule for minimum move aircraft being destroyed seems to have been removed