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i dont get the warboss detachment limitation for orks. Both because it was common for multiple bosses to be around but they just gave us 3 warboss kits.

They gave us a rule that prevents us from wanting to buy all of the new warbosses because we cannot feasibly use them all.

I dont know why you'd ever, ever use the generic beastboss. Model looks damn sexy but when you cant bring him as a side character how can you justify him over a megaboss or squigboss?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont get the warboss detachment limitation for orks. Both because it was common for multiple bosses to be around but they just gave us 3 warboss kits.

They gave us a rule that prevents us from wanting to buy all of the new warbosses because we cannot feasibly use them all.

I dont know why you'd ever, ever use the generic beastboss. Model looks damn sexy but when you cant bring him as a side character how can you justify him over a megaboss or squigboss?

Because they wanted Beast Snaggas to be a large enough sub-range of our larger model range to support a full army at all common point levels? The squigboss is rather pricey for 500-1000 pt games. Beastboss fits in better.

Not tactics related but I have to say I'm really impressed with the combat patrol box. A solid, functional core to an army, aside from the megaboss (topical) it's all stuff you'd be happy to have multiples of, and almost all of it are new kits.

Madjob wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont get the warboss detachment limitation for orks. Both because it was common for multiple bosses to be around but they just gave us 3 warboss kits.

They gave us a rule that prevents us from wanting to buy all of the new warbosses because we cannot feasibly use them all.

I dont know why you'd ever, ever use the generic beastboss. Model looks damn sexy but when you cant bring him as a side character how can you justify him over a megaboss or squigboss?

Because they wanted Beast Snaggas to be a large enough sub-range of our larger model range to support a full army at all common point levels? The squigboss is rather pricey for 500-1000 pt games. Beastboss fits in better.

Not tactics related but I have to say I'm really impressed with the combat patrol box. A solid, functional core to an army, aside from the megaboss (topical) it's all stuff you'd be happy to have multiples of, and almost all of it are new kits.

Honestly, the only thing I feel GW knocked out of the park with this release are the models and the box sets. Rules are a real mixed bag though.

There are marginal reasons for stacking multiple +1's to hit.

Stack two and PK's hit on +1
Stack two and you retain +1 when countered with a minus 1

Madjob wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont get the warboss detachment limitation for orks. Both because it was common for multiple bosses to be around but they just gave us 3 warboss kits.

They gave us a rule that prevents us from wanting to buy all of the new warbosses because we cannot feasibly use them all.

I dont know why you'd ever, ever use the generic beastboss. Model looks damn sexy but when you cant bring him as a side character how can you justify him over a megaboss or squigboss?

Because they wanted Beast Snaggas to be a large enough sub-range of our larger model range to support a full army at all common point levels? The squigboss is rather pricey for 500-1000 pt games. Beastboss fits in better.

Not tactics related but I have to say I'm really impressed with the combat patrol box. A solid, functional core to an army, aside from the megaboss (topical) it's all stuff you'd be happy to have multiples of, and almost all of it are new kits.

In that case, megaboss. He really isnt that much more than the beastboss and imo significantly better.
Beastboss feels like the sidekick boss that we can no longer field easily.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Madjob wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont get the warboss detachment limitation for orks. Both because it was common for multiple bosses to be around but they just gave us 3 warboss kits.

They gave us a rule that prevents us from wanting to buy all of the new warbosses because we cannot feasibly use them all.

I dont know why you'd ever, ever use the generic beastboss. Model looks damn sexy but when you cant bring him as a side character how can you justify him over a megaboss or squigboss?

Because they wanted Beast Snaggas to be a large enough sub-range of our larger model range to support a full army at all common point levels? The squigboss is rather pricey for 500-1000 pt games. Beastboss fits in better.

Not tactics related but I have to say I'm really impressed with the combat patrol box. A solid, functional core to an army, aside from the megaboss (topical) it's all stuff you'd be happy to have multiples of, and almost all of it are new kits.

In that case, megaboss. He really isnt that much more than the beastboss and imo significantly better.
Beastboss feels like the sidekick boss that we can no longer field easily.

He's not a Beast Snagga. My point was, a clear goal for GW in this release was to make Beast Snaggas a subfaction that you could solely build an army out of at all point levels. They needed a cheaper HQ to achieve that, that's why the Beastboss exists.

On an unrelated note, anyone who decides to try and play Blood Axes is advised to try and bring a few Squignobs - averages 2-3 mortal wounds every time it charges a unit. Keep them close together, charge them into units for a bunch of MW and hopefully whatever is left can't kill them before you fall back and charge something else (or the same target again).

 Grimskul wrote:
The MA Warboss or even Warboss on Warbike is a lot better than the one on Foot, I don't see why you'd take him now. It's kind of all over the place.

This guy had one bright idea I didn't think of. Warboss with attack squig and Brutal but Kunnin'. Because it doesn't say what you have to spend the attacks on, meaning in theory, you wiff the attack squig wound rolls and then happily acquire 1-2 more power klaw attacks.




Also, let's be perfectly honest, if they do give us the FW bikerboss, he's going to end up with Speed Waaagh. And no thanks just for that.

Madjob wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
[
Beastboss feels like the sidekick boss that we can no longer field easily.

He's not a Beast Snagga. My point was, a clear goal for GW in this release was to make Beast Snaggas a subfaction that you could solely build an army out of at all point levels. They needed a cheaper HQ to achieve that, that's why the Beastboss exists.

Or. Here's a crazy idea. Maybe just don't make the transports, auras, warlord traits, strategems, and psychic powers subfaction locked, because that's stupid.

Does anyone benefit from having Beast Snaggas that are silo'd? Is it more fun? Is it appealing in literally any way? Does it make the army play better?

Consider how having Snaggas as a side lineup is going to work 5 years from now. It's going to be a constant pain point in every codex release.

 Tomsug wrote:
Hey… this is strong. One unite killed, all other better BS. And in Fight phase again!

To be absolutly clear, does it mean, tha Freebotas - the whole army and in every phase - get +1 to hit roll for EVERY UNIT destroied in every phase? You destroy 5 = you get 5x+1 ? Of course you cannot get to more than +/-1on the end, but you can negate -1 to hit by flyiers or dense cover and still get +1 to hit if you kill two or more…

They're badly missing a slot for "Undaboss", a Lt-like character for 40-50 pts that's like a Warboss with 1 less wound, attack, and that can't use Waaagh … a Jr.command model for small games and that can be a subordinate sort in larger ones.

There's a *remote* chance that we'll see one in a "Second wave" or new Ork models, but I don't think it'll happen, which is … painful.

That HQ slot is *painful* right now.

 Tomsug wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Hey… this is strong. One unite killed, all other better BS. And in Fight phase again!

To be absolutly clear, does it mean, tha Freebotas - the whole army and in every phase - get +1 to hit roll for EVERY UNIT destroied in every phase? You destroy 5 = you get 5x+1 ? Of course you cannot get to more than +/-1on the end, but you can negate -1 to hit by flyiers or dense cover and still get +1 to hit if you kill two or more…

yes, this is how i read it. it triggers of each unit destroyed by one of your freebootas units and lasts until end of phase

 GoldenHorde wrote:
There are marginal reasons for stacking multiple +1's to hit.

I personally see a multiple +1 to hit source as a way to cover more of the board with the buff instead of trying to concentrate them in a single point for a super buffed out unit. Orks are quite numerous and the 9th edition seems to favor MSU with orks and thus multiple buff vectors scattered around the board might be a thing. Then again, I do not play in very competitive metas and I am poor tactician.

Wakshaani wrote:
They're badly missing a slot for "Undaboss", a Lt-like character for 40-50 pts that's like a Warboss with 1 less wound, attack, and that can't use Waaagh … a Jr.command model for small games and that can be a subordinate sort in larger ones.

There's a *remote* chance that we'll see one in a "Second wave" or new Ork models, but I don't think it'll happen, which is … painful.

That HQ slot is *painful* right now.

A Lefftenunt or Big Boss would be a cool addition.

when i found out the KFF stratagem exploded the KFF i was absolutely devastated..

Who thought that would be a good idea...

It will probably be popped on turn 2 where you get hit by the majority of shooting but afterwards the Big Mek is a useless pile of gak

Are we in agreement that KFF is.... really, really bad now? 20 (or is it 25) points increase, reduced to 6++? Sure, it technically has better range if you daisy chain back to it, but it doesn't do much for boyz and is only useful on vehicles against specifically anti-tank weaponry (which is abundant, but a mek is going to struggle to keep up with anything except walkers).
For example, say you're taking one to protect boyz; instead of spending 85 points on a KFF, you can take 42 beast snagga boyz (2 ppm more than regular boyz) to get the same 6++ but also get +1 S. Or take an extra squad of boyz, which is both more useful tactically AND will be more durable than a 6++ will add to boyz.
If you're taking it to protect kans or dreads, you can buy 2 more kans (10 wounds) or 1 more dread (8 wounds).
Any vehicles you can essentially buy another vehicle for those points, which is an increase in firepower AND 8(?) extra wounds AND he will only keep up with them on turn 1.
The only thing I would consider is taking a MA mek with KFF, it is 30 points more, but specifically to take dead shiny shoota if you otherwise only have named characters and no good choice for relic.

TLDR you're paying 85 points for a pathetic 6++ instead of more models/firepower.

Commissar Yarrork wrote:
Are we in agreement that KFF is.... really, really bad now? 20 (or is it 25) points increase, reduced to 6++? Sure, it technically has better range if you daisy chain back to it, but it doesn't do much for boyz and is only useful on vehicles against specifically anti-tank weaponry (which is abundant, but a mek is going to struggle to keep up with anything except walkers).
For example, say you're taking one to protect boyz; instead of spending 85 points on a KFF, you can take 42 beast snagga boyz (2 ppm more than regular boyz) to get the same 6++ but also get +1 S. Or take an extra squad of boyz, which is both more useful tactically AND will be more durable than a 6++ will add to boyz.
If you're taking it to protect kans or dreads, you can buy 2 more kans (10 wounds) or 1 more dread (8 wounds).
Any vehicles you can essentially buy another vehicle for those points, which is an increase in firepower AND 8(?) extra wounds AND he will only keep up with them on turn 1.
The only thing I would consider is taking a MA mek with KFF, it is 30 points more, but specifically to take dead shiny shoota if you otherwise only have named characters and no good choice for relic.

TLDR you're paying 85 points for a pathetic 6++ instead of more models/firepower.

sure you can buy ONE more vehicle for that price, but not one more vehicle for everything it protects.

Its nerfed hard, and the new stratagem is made up by a person that hates orks and should not be allowed to make stratagems. But if the majority of your army isnt beast snagga i can may be see use for the KFF still. Mix it up with a FNP aura and you have 6++ and 6+++ adding on top of your Toughness 5.

When the new codex is released and i dont have any beastsnaggas, ill be trying to run my 90 boys Ghaz goff army. Add makari as well because i can for the FNP and painboy cant heal ghaz anymore anyway so feth him.

Maybe it turns out that beastsnagga boys just plow through boys and boys are left in the dirt. I dont know, but also, maybe beast snaggas will be nerfed with time to be less good.

I'm still going to put a KFF on my naut, because it's just 20 points there. A KFF mek though? I'll rather take my chances with smoke cloud to protect my buggies, thank you very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wakshaani wrote:
They're badly missing a slot for "Undaboss", a Lt-like character for 40-50 pts that's like a Warboss with 1 less wound, attack, and that can't use Waaagh … a Jr.command model for small games and that can be a subordinate sort in larger ones.

I think big mek and painboss are the models you are looking for.

true. doing the math here i will probably be going for Big choppas for boys nobs over power klaws.

And there isnt a massive point difference between a 10 man boys group with big choppa (even less with power klaw) and 10 beast snaggas given the power snappa is free.

So if you go for the beast snaggas you wouldnt need to spend points on your KFF. if you are running a horde that is.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm still going to put a KFF on my naut, because it's just 20 points there. A KFF mek though? I'll rather take my chances with smoke cloud to protect my buggies, thank you very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wakshaani wrote:
They're badly missing a slot for "Undaboss", a Lt-like character for 40-50 pts that's like a Warboss with 1 less wound, attack, and that can't use Waaagh … a Jr.command model for small games and that can be a subordinate sort in larger ones.

I think big mek and painboss are the models you are looking for.

Nope, not looking for leader-level Oddboys, but someone who was a nob+1, a Big Boss who was running a small warband (The kind that'd lead a 500 pt list maybe) or that was scooped up by another warband when the two clashed... one won, and became the Warboss, while the one who lost becomes the #2 guy. A fighter-type … not a healer like a Painboss, not a tech like a Big Mek, but a Big Boss (only now they use that term for a strat, which leaves me needing a new name here and "Sub Boss" doesn't quite fit.)

Every Megatron needs a Starscream.

Orks get to be a very powerful shooty fast attack spam army. Freeboota buggy spam is gona be nuts. The good part with freebootas is that they have a +1 ld trait that allows to run squadrons of buggies more freely. 2 buggies with ld7 will not roll for morale unless they face an opponent that lowers their ld - which is not too common. Sure, this buggies will have to stick 6" Close to him, but you don't want your speed waagh shorter to be sniped out, do you?
Another thing with freebootas is their stacking +1 to hit. It will allow to negate the movement penalty for tankbustas or buff lootas to bs4 which is quite good.

I feel that a 3-detachment fast attack army has a potential to rule the tourneys.

Banner Nob sort of serves this position if you big boss strat him. Still not Ideal.
Would also prefer a proper HQ leftanork, maybe a War Chief who represents the bosses best drinking buddy rather than just the nearest rival.

Psychocouac wrote:

Spoiler:

What the F?! For real? We are paying 2 CP to destroy a 30 points equipment now?! What the hell?!

Swiss german has some...

But frankly as a Chaos player i am more confused how a bigmek with forcefield should be in the same ballpark as a Dark apostle... Which is still 5++ within a bubble and can also protect low SV save models just as good... (considering he also has an alternative buff to melle ontop of having a better profile...aswell as being baseline cheaper or only 5 pts more when having some disciples....)
It comparatively looks positively bad. So i don't really understand that logic of why it needed nerfing, even playing against it i never understood, maybee GW wants to sell us painboys but then they would need to be better?

Also on the no Armor debate.I think boyz should be upgradeable into 'ard Boyz, like in the past, but not limited to a SV 4+. But that would make units customizable and can't have that thanks to GW's no models no rules..... which with Commandos orks seemingly got another taste from.

Btw, can you start the game with freeboota lootas from 1 detachment embarked on freeboota wagons from another?

Wakshaani wrote:
Nope, not looking for leader-level Oddboys, but someone who was a nob+1, a Big Boss who was running a small warband (The kind that'd lead a 500 pt list maybe) or that was scooped up by another warband when the two clashed... one won, and became the Warboss, while the one who lost becomes the #2 guy. A fighter-type … not a healer like a Painboss, not a tech like a Big Mek, but a Big Boss (only now they use that term for a strat, which leaves me needing a new name here and "Sub Boss" doesn't quite fit.)

Every Megatron needs a Starscream.

Nob with warbanner? Nob on squig? MANz? Just a warboss that's not your warlord?

Sorry, I really don't think there is any design space left for such a model.

I'm with Jid here, not that I'd hate an extra option but I feel like we're pretty saturated at this point. Orks truly are not the army in need of new kit&options at this point. Pass the torch to one of the other forgotten armies.

I think the normal weirdboy still has some potential as a 2nd HQ as the waaagh discipline has several good powers that you might come to miss otherwise.

The painboss not being able to heal non-beastsnaggas hurts though, as I really like the model and he's overall pretty decent IMO..

Unrelated to the hunt for non-warbosses, which relic do you prefer on the beastboss on squigosaur; Headwoppas Killchoppa or the Beasthide Mantle?

True, the weird boy really is looking good, assuming you can keep him company. Hilariously Da Crunch now works exactly like the psychic power from Belakor's discipline that some posted a few weeks ago with the comment that orks would never get something as good

 Jidmah wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Nope, not looking for leader-level Oddboys, but someone who was a nob+1, a Big Boss who was running a small warband (The kind that'd lead a 500 pt list maybe) or that was scooped up by another warband when the two clashed... one won, and became the Warboss, while the one who lost becomes the #2 guy. A fighter-type … not a healer like a Painboss, not a tech like a Big Mek, but a Big Boss (only now they use that term for a strat, which leaves me needing a new name here and "Sub Boss" doesn't quite fit.)

Every Megatron needs a Starscream.

Nob with warbanner? Nob on squig? MANz? Just a warboss that's not your warlord?

Sorry, I really don't think there is any design space left for such a model.

Not a warbanner, not on a squig, not necessarily a Mega Armored Boss (but that could be an optional upgrade) … just a #2 Big Boss whose job it is to go lead in his name (or lead a smaller force) like a marine LT.

For instance, you might have a Blood Axe warboss who was Kunnin' as it gets, with his thinkin' cap and master plan, but also have a big, bulked-up #2 who he'd send out to crush heads up close and personal while he, himself, hung back. Not very Gorky, but Mork would approve!

Alternately, you could have a big ol' Goff warboss in front, takin' heads and claimin' trophies, but his #2 was back with the Shootas and Lootas, directing supporting fire because he just loved the big booms and loud dakka more than thumpin'.

Make 'em about half the cost of a Warboss, give them a minor support aura, and they're a great spot to park relics, warlord traits, and so on.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm still going to put a KFF on my naut, because it's just 20 points there. A KFF mek though? I'll rather take my chances with smoke cloud to protect my buggies, thank you very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wakshaani wrote:
They're badly missing a slot for "Undaboss", a Lt-like character for 40-50 pts that's like a Warboss with 1 less wound, attack, and that can't use Waaagh … a Jr.command model for small games and that can be a subordinate sort in larger ones.

I think big mek and painboss are the models you are looking for.

I see 30 points for the morkanaut KFF, both on the codex point section, and on the app leak. Where do you get 20 points ? It certainly is not worth more than 20 but...

PiñaColada wrote:
Unrelated to the hunt for non-warbosses, which relic do you prefer on the beastboss on squigosaur; Headwoppas Killchoppa or the Beasthide Mantle?

Difficult, but probably the mantle, along with the Big Killa Boss trait. I'm probably going to give both relics a try, but right now I think having the boss stick around longer is more important than getting better wound rolls vs high toughness targets. With just his basic loadout he is already pretty well fit for rampaging through elite infantry and the killchoppa adds little to that and reduces the attacks by one. However, it does make it way better at killing vehicles or monsters, so if that's what you're looking for...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
I see 30 points for the morkanaut KFF, both on the codex point section, and on the app leak. Where do you get 20 points ? It certainly is not worth more than 20 but...

You're right, I was going by 8th edition points. Still worth it IMO. I only need the KFF for turn one anyways, so it doesn't really matter whether it burns out - if the naut is alive in T2 at all

Yeah, the relic choice probably comes down to what you need the HQ to do in the list, so it's up in the air. I still think I may slightly prefer the Killchoppa even though you lose an attack and some durability. He's still pretty durable without the Mantle and the Killchoppa makes him more effective against even tougher targets, which might help out in a TAC sense..?

30 points for the KFF is probably worth it on the Morkanaut, due to its large base and dire need of an invuln but I'm more questioning if the naut itself is worth its expensive barrier of entry..

have you guys seen the statistics for the Wurrboy? I have been completely unable to find him. So i dont know how his statistics are different from a normal weirdboy.
Edit:
Nvm ive found him