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Keep that garbage out of The Veterans of the Long War.
Abaddon wants a counter for Primaris, at the very least, and tasked Fabius Bile with coming up with one. On the basis that they're superior in every way that matters, even to the VotLW.
Good for Abaddon. Give them to the Black Legion. Leave them out of the Legions so stuck in their ways that they won't even use daemons or swear fealty to the Chaos Gods. Give us rules to make our ancient veterans actually feel like ancient veterans. Please see csm 3.5 for reference.
On the loyalist side
Primaris whirlwind seems superceded by the missile drop bunker.
Primaris coming out of drop pods are in the Indomitus novel (including modified drop pod for the Outrider bikes)
More characters are certainly coming. Truthfully, they can run this train all the way into the ground. I figured they would call a break on it, pause for breath, but they seem to be accelerating instead.
I think you're right. The infuriating thing is that they're spending so much time and effort on it they are neglecting other armies to the point that they just stop supporting them with models and functional rules and then squat them when, SHOCK, no one seems to be interested in playing them.
And now they're removing models that they are still producing and selling from existing and fairly popular factions. Apparently it's too much effort to even update rules for other faction's units now.
Gadzilla666 wrote: And now they're removing models that they are still producing and selling from existing and fairly popular factions. Apparently it's too much effort to even update rules for other faction's units now.
What models? I think I've read something about the Defiler earlier today, but that one is still in the codex, and being sold... still...
Keep that garbage out of The Veterans of the Long War.
Abaddon wants a counter for Primaris, at the very least, and tasked Fabius Bile with coming up with one. On the basis that they're superior in every way that matters, even to the VotLW.
Good for Abaddon. Give them to the Black Legion. Leave them out of the Legions so stuck in their ways that they won't even use daemons or swear fealty to the Chaos Gods. Give us rules to make our ancient veterans actually feel like ancient veterans. Please see csm 3.5 for reference.
Yes, yes, 3.5 is some nice nostalgia and whatever, but you know very well that isn't how things work now. (And frankly I suspect the 3.5 rules would be very disappointing and sad in the current edition)
Whenever they get around to it, your only option is going to be to not take whatever new thing they throw out there.
Gadzilla666 wrote: And now they're removing models that they are still producing and selling from existing and fairly popular factions. Apparently it's too much effort to even update rules for other faction's units now.
What models? I think I've read something about the Defiler earlier today, but that one is still in the codex, and being sold... still...
The Hellforged Kharybdis doesn't have an entry in the new ca, despite the model still being available for purchase from Forge World.
As for the armies I mentioned, Renegades and Heretics as well as Elysian Drop Troops are gone as well.
Keep that garbage out of The Veterans of the Long War.
Abaddon wants a counter for Primaris, at the very least, and tasked Fabius Bile with coming up with one. On the basis that they're superior in every way that matters, even to the VotLW.
Good for Abaddon. Give them to the Black Legion. Leave them out of the Legions so stuck in their ways that they won't even use daemons or swear fealty to the Chaos Gods. Give us rules to make our ancient veterans actually feel like ancient veterans. Please see csm 3.5 for reference.
Yes, yes, 3.5 is some nice nostalgia and whatever, but you know very well that isn't how things work now. (And frankly I suspect the 3.5 rules would be very disappointing and sad in the current edition)
Whenever they get around to it, your only option is going to be to not take whatever new thing they throw out there.
Fine by me. I already refuse to run daemons, daemon engines, etc in my Night Lords, and I don't give them marks. But there is nothing stopping gw from bringing back things like veteran abilities.
Plenty of loyalist players won't play primaris either.
Keep that garbage out of The Veterans of the Long War.
Abaddon wants a counter for Primaris, at the very least, and tasked Fabius Bile with coming up with one. On the basis that they're superior in every way that matters, even to the VotLW.
Good for Abaddon. Give them to the Black Legion. Leave them out of the Legions so stuck in their ways that they won't even use daemons or swear fealty to the Chaos Gods. Give us rules to make our ancient veterans actually feel like ancient veterans. Please see csm 3.5 for reference.
Yes, yes, 3.5 is some nice nostalgia and whatever, but you know very well that isn't how things work now. (And frankly I suspect the 3.5 rules would be very disappointing and sad in the current edition)
Whenever they get around to it, your only option is going to be to not take whatever new thing they throw out there.
Fine by me. I already refuse to run daemons, daemon engines, etc in my Night Lords, and I don't give them marks. But there is nothing stopping gw from bringing back things like veteran abilities.
Plenty of loyalist players won't play primaris either.
Guilty of that, I absolutely don't like Primaris design (except for intercessors). I don't like the way they play (homogenous squads and just buckets o' gun). I've already made the decision that as soon as the firstborn are squatted out (going back and forth as to when/if its going to happen) that I'm out of the game OR I might become a renegade instead.
I really want nothing to do with Primaris on a fluff/looks/rules level - but GW is making it very hard to do (with the recent slap to Salamanders CT, and the addition of eradicators)
Keep that garbage out of The Veterans of the Long War.
Abaddon wants a counter for Primaris, at the very least, and tasked Fabius Bile with coming up with one. On the basis that they're superior in every way that matters, even to the VotLW.
Good for Abaddon. Give them to the Black Legion. Leave them out of the Legions so stuck in their ways that they won't even use daemons or swear fealty to the Chaos Gods. Give us rules to make our ancient veterans actually feel like ancient veterans. Please see csm 3.5 for reference.
Yes, yes, 3.5 is some nice nostalgia and whatever, but you know very well that isn't how things work now. (And frankly I suspect the 3.5 rules would be very disappointing and sad in the current edition)
Whenever they get around to it, your only option is going to be to not take whatever new thing they throw out there.
What are you talking about? The SM codex+supplements is the closest books have come to 3.5 in years. They spent multiple editions trying to structure things differently, and now have finally returned to where we started. It works slightly different now as you just get lots of traits and special rules, as opposed to paying pts per model, but its the same result: Lots of options, and lots of differences between subfactions.
We already have 3 of these as Primaris and we're getting the Techmarine soon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/27 03:49:35
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Gravis. It's the 2+ armor. Chuck in a iron halo for a invul.
Gravis is a 3+, not a 2+.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
So, I've got a bit of a theory, it's one I kinda suspected was the case and the previews we've seen so far have clinched it for me.
A Space Marine chapter is divided into companies. 1st company is the vetern company, 2nd-5th company are the battle companies, 6th and 7th are reserve battleline companies 8th is the reserve close support company 9th is the Reserve Fire Support company, and 10th is the scout/Vanguard Company.
Tradtionally poeople have built around a battle line company. the other companies are 1: boring as they consisted of 1-2 units tops. 2: couldn't exactly make a legal army out of (I suppose you could have taken a bike captain and build an army around bikes and assault marines but... that would have lacked much varity)
GW is giving us options that seem like they'll let us fill out armies based on these reserve companies.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Is the 10 Company rule even a thing in this glorious age of Warhammer 41k?
I thought the 1000 Marine limit was out the window?
Considering that once rare antigrav is now also wiedly available, for no reason at all, the flanderisation has long since started before....
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Is the 10 Company rule even a thing in this glorious age of Warhammer 41k?
I thought the 1000 Marine limit was out the window?
Considering that once rare antigrav is now also wiedly available, for no reason at all, the flanderisation has long since started before....
I've not kept up on 41k fluff but my thought is that the Imperium was always able to make more advanced stuff than they did, but held back because they were already a match for the threats that were out there and their biggest fear was rebellion not invasion. The whole structure of the Imperium; the separation of the Navy and the Guard, the 1000 marine cap, the isolation of governors was all set up to prevent large scale rebellions, not to defend the Imperium from external threats.
The big ole rift has made it clear that the Imperium has to take the gloves off of the Space Marines and let them really go to war.
I'd even argue that the gloves were coming off once the Tyranid threat was clear, for the first time the Imperium faced an extinction-level threat larger and more dangerous than the potential for rebellion among its own military.
But that's all borderline head canon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/27 10:12:42
The Imperium held back? The empire that exterminautuses their own planets? And fields giant walkers with enough firepower to destroy entire cities? Really?
Gadzilla666 wrote: The Imperium held back? The empire that exterminautuses their own planets? And fields giant walkers with enough firepower to destroy entire cities? Really?
The empire that sends people to war in cardboard armor and WWI tanks and caps their elite forces at 1000 men each?
It's written into the fluff that the Imperium deliberately handicapped both the Imperial Army and the Marine Legions after the Heresy to prevent future rebellions. If the Imperium can suddenly field whole squads with plasma and melta (and better plasma/melta than before) not to mention hover tanks I think it's pretty clear they were holding back their full capabilities until the threat became so dire it was a question of use everything and risk rebellion or die.
Gadzilla666 wrote: And now they're removing models that they are still producing and selling from existing and fairly popular factions. Apparently it's too much effort to even update rules for other faction's units now.
What models? I think I've read something about the Defiler earlier today, but that one is still in the codex, and being sold... still...
The Hellforged Kharybdis doesn't have an entry in the new ca, despite the model still being available for purchase from Forge World.
As for the armies I mentioned, Renegades and Heretics as well as Elysian Drop Troops are gone as well.
These are forgeworld units/armies that have nothing to do with the design and production of plastic GW product lines. R&H have been out of production for quite some time now. Elysians too. This likely has more to do with how old the moulds were, and how few they sold.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Kharibdys go out of production either. But it’s omission from CA could just as easily be an error, that’s yet to be rectified.
But honestly, citing forgeworld armies being squatted as a symptom of GW making lots of Primaris is hyperbolic nonsense. It’s far more related to FW moving away from 40k product lines and towards specialist games, not to mention their upcoming Old World Warhammer line.
I really think the big thing missing is terminators. Gravis might have been intended to be the replacement, but most of their fans aren't having it. People love their walking tanks.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Gadzilla666 wrote: And now they're removing models that they are still producing and selling from existing and fairly popular factions. Apparently it's too much effort to even update rules for other faction's units now.
What models? I think I've read something about the Defiler earlier today, but that one is still in the codex, and being sold... still...
The Hellforged Kharybdis doesn't have an entry in the new ca, despite the model still being available for purchase from Forge World.
As for the armies I mentioned, Renegades and Heretics as well as Elysian Drop Troops are gone as well.
These are forgeworld units/armies that have nothing to do with the design and production of plastic GW product lines. R&H have been out of production for quite some time now. Elysians too. This likely has more to do with how old the moulds were, and how few they sold.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Kharibdys go out of production either. But it’s omission from CA could just as easily be an error, that’s yet to be rectified.
But honestly, citing forgeworld armies being squatted as a symptom of GW making lots of Primaris is hyperbolic nonsense. It’s far more related to FW moving away from 40k product lines and towards specialist games, not to mention their upcoming Old World Warhammer line.
And you would be correct, if GW didn't take over the ruleswriting for them during 8th edition.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 08:24:18
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Gadzilla666 wrote: And now they're removing models that they are still producing and selling from existing and fairly popular factions. Apparently it's too much effort to even update rules for other faction's units now.
What models? I think I've read something about the Defiler earlier today, but that one is still in the codex, and being sold... still...
The Hellforged Kharybdis doesn't have an entry in the new ca, despite the model still being available for purchase from Forge World.
As for the armies I mentioned, Renegades and Heretics as well as Elysian Drop Troops are gone as well.
These are forgeworld units/armies that have nothing to do with the design and production of plastic GW product lines. R&H have been out of production for quite some time now. Elysians too. This likely has more to do with how old the moulds were, and how few they sold.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Kharibdys go out of production either. But it’s omission from CA could just as easily be an error, that’s yet to be rectified.
But honestly, citing forgeworld armies being squatted as a symptom of GW making lots of Primaris is hyperbolic nonsense. It’s far more related to FW moving away from 40k product lines and towards specialist games, not to mention their upcoming Old World Warhammer line.
And you would be correct, if GW didn't take over the ruleswriting for them during 8th edition.
rules writing doesn't mean squat, GW's makes the model then the rules for the model. FW isn't exactly flooding us with primaris options, hell aside from the SH tank they've canceled the primaris options they did have.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
What do you mean it's just another intercissor! HOW DARE THOU EVEN SUGGEST THIS HERESY.
Good luck finding something that marines don't have though.
I guess that's the reason why they are doing the whole primaris thing in the first place - they ran out of design space. Probably some time before they decided to have marines wear two suits of armor at once.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Most of the other tank types besides the Predator. Whirlwind and Vindicator mostly. Maybe they could make a version of the Impulsor that mounts the turret from the new Drop Bunker?
Between Hellblasters, Eradicators, and Eliminators, I think we have the Devastator types covered. Assault Intercessors cover Assault Marines without Jump Packs fairly well. I think Jump Pack close combat squads should be explored.
Otherwise, I don't really think there is much of anything else that needs to be covered. Maybe some form of Terminators, but their design space has been encroached on by the Bladeguard and Aggressors. The teleporting in thing is about the only thing missing.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 