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Necron stuff up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/28/codex-necrons-new-rules-and-units/

Reanimation protocols seems very wordy and it's unclear if failed attempts get added to the next round of attacks.

Void dragon is a tank hunter who seems a little meh to me unless he's a character.

Hexmark sadly seems a decent chaff clearer but that's about it.

Monolith has been hitting the gym though.

Seems like RP is a more fiddly 5+++ then, except for multiwound models you'll need to hit the roll for EVERY WOUND they would have. Drastically reduces how good it is for units like destroyers.

All the C'Tan are characters (at least the 3 named shards are) so it's in;ine with the Deceiver/Nightbringer.

The RP though .. has questions.
Lychguard are 2w. Say one of them 'dies', that's 2 dice in the pool. To reanimate the Lychguard both dice would have to be 5+'s as you need as many 5+'s as the model has wounds to make them stand back up?

Am I missing something with that, or is it a lot harder to reanimate multi-wound models just with RP?

 BroodSpawn wrote:
All the C'Tan are characters (at least the 3 named shards are) so it's in;ine with the Deceiver/Nightbringer.

The RP though .. has questions.
Lychguard are 2w. Say one of them 'dies', that's 2 dice in the pool. To reanimate the Lychguard both dice would have to be 5+'s as you need as many 5+'s as the model has wounds to make them stand back up?

Am I missing something with that, or is it a lot harder to reanimate multi-wound models just with RP?

You aren't missing anything. It is weaker for mutli wound models.

 Blood Hawk wrote:
The new grim resolve looks really strong. If you are charged on your opponents turn you should get +1 to hit sense it excludes pile in and consolidation moves.

Quite strong yes, but their second part is pretty useless is it not?
With the squad sizes along with atsknf, how often will a DA unit ever actually take a combat attrition test?

Also, if they are charged, you would expect the enemy to be confident of doing enough damage to mean it won't matter, unless they interrupt, as they should be mostly dead anyway.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
All the C'Tan are characters (at least the 3 named shards are) so it's in;ine with the Deceiver/Nightbringer.

The RP though .. has questions.
Lychguard are 2w. Say one of them 'dies', that's 2 dice in the pool. To reanimate the Lychguard both dice would have to be 5+'s as you need as many 5+'s as the model has wounds to make them stand back up?

Am I missing something with that, or is it a lot harder to reanimate multi-wound models just with RP?

You're not missing anything, that's exactly how it works. Which makes sense in a way. The higher wound and more powerful units are harder to bring back; whilst your weaker and cheaper warriors are much easier. It stands to reason that bringing units back from the dead is easier for a lower wound model and thus prevents you building elite "unkillable" armies.

Yep. The new Reanimation Protocols will definitely benefit the Silver Tide players.

oh my the Void Dragon looks dangerous.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 BroodSpawn wrote:
All the C'Tan are characters (at least the 3 named shards are) so it's in;ine with the Deceiver/Nightbringer.

The RP though .. has questions.
Lychguard are 2w. Say one of them 'dies', that's 2 dice in the pool. To reanimate the Lychguard both dice would have to be 5+'s as you need as many 5+'s as the model has wounds to make them stand back up?

Am I missing something with that, or is it a lot harder to reanimate multi-wound models just with RP?

You aren't missing anything. It is weaker for mutli wound models.

Yeah, Multi-wound models are looking rough to reanimate right now.

Dudeface wrote:
Necron stuff up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/28/codex-necrons-new-rules-and-units/

Reanimation protocols seems very wordy and it's unclear if failed attempts get added to the next round of attacks.

Void dragon is a tank hunter who seems a little meh to me unless he's a character.

Hexmark sadly seems a decent chaff clearer but that's about it.

Monolith has been hitting the gym though.

I disagree the wording is unclear.

Once the entire unit’s attacks are resolved, the Necron player then resolves a batch of Reanimation Protocol rolls. Anything not resurrected is described as phasing out, so they don’t get to roll again.

Example to explain my understanding.

I have 20 Necron Warriors in a unit.

Enemy Unit A shoots them up, resulting in 5 “dead” models once all their attacks are made.

I then roll 5 D6 (that being the total wounds of the fallen models). Let’s say I roll 2, 2, 4, 5 and 6, with no modifiers in play. That result means I can start healing two wounds. Warriors having a single wound, two are turned to play.

The remaining three are removed from the game, being so badly damaged they phase out.

Enemy Unit B then shoots them up again (poor Warriors!). This time, they manage to cause 6 casualties.

I then roll 6 D6 for Reanimation Protocols.

Now....multi-wound models, such as Destroyers work differently. If they have 3 wounds, Unit A’s attack would drop a single model. As only one has been destroyed, I’m only rolling 3 D6, not the original 5. If I make all of them, that Destroyer returns to play, hale and healthy as if nothing ever happened. But, Unit B’s arrack? That’s enough to ‘destroy’ two of the unit’s models. Provided at least one remains in play, I still roll 6 D6, requiring a minimum of 3 5+ results to return a Destroyer to play.

This of course means units consisting entirely of single wound models are really, really tough to eradicate, as each success is one back. Multi-wound models? Your opponent might want to get clever, and only spang enough damage on them to ensure I’m only ever rolling a single model, given the likelihood of sparing all the wounds is pretty slim, even with modifiers and re-rolls.

Dudeface wrote:

Reanimation protocols seems very wordy and it's unclear if failed attempts get added to the next round of attacks.

Nope after unit attacks a unit with Reanimation Protocols the RP activates and completes for that round of attacks. At the end of resolving any dice left in the pool are lost. Your opponent can then resume their turn and use another unit for whatever, even attacking the same unit.

Each RP pool exists for only one unit completing a round of attacks against the unit with RP.



This means taking out a unit of necrons is easier if
1) Your opponent can wipe out the unit with one attack.

2) If they attack with lots of units, but each one dealing only a small amount of damage each time - thus having few dice in the pool to reanimate with. Especially against multi wound models.

Oh wait, the multi-wound model reanimating thing is even weirder.

Lychguard again. 1 dies. 2 dice rolled to reanimate - 1x 5, 1x2.
The 5 goes into the pool.

Next time the same Lychguard unit has to roll RP (assuming still 1 dead) that's 2 dice to roll, any 5's go into the pool. Pool has at least 2 in it, revive a Lychguard.

The question now turns into do you only roll RP after the unit (Lychguard in this example) have been attacked / shot / hit in melee or do they get to to it more often than that?

Multi-wound models could come back by just 'banking' the successes until you have enough to revive one?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Necron stuff up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/28/codex-necrons-new-rules-and-units/

Reanimation protocols seems very wordy and it's unclear if failed attempts get added to the next round of attacks.

Void dragon is a tank hunter who seems a little meh to me unless he's a character.

Hexmark sadly seems a decent chaff clearer but that's about it.

Monolith has been hitting the gym though.

I disagree the wording is unclear.

Once the entire unit’s attacks are resolved, the Necron player then resolves a batch of Reanimation Protocol rolls. Anything not resurrected is described as phasing out, so they don’t get to roll again.

Example to explain my understanding.

I have 20 Necron Warriors in a unit.

Enemy Unit A shoots them up, resulting in 5 “dead” models once all their attacks are made.

I then roll 5 D6 (that being the total wounds of the fallen models). Let’s say I roll 2, 2, 4, 5 and 6, with no modifiers in play. That result means I can start healing two wounds. Warriors having a single wound, two are turned to play.

The remaining three are removed from the game, being so badly damaged they phase out.

Enemy Unit B then shoots them up again (poor Warriors!). This time, they manage to cause 6 casualties.

I then roll 6 D6 for Reanimation Protocols.

Now....multi-wound models, such as Destroyers work differently. If they have 3 wounds, Unit A’s attack would drop a single model. As only one has been destroyed, I’m only rolling 3 D6, not the original 5. If I make all of them, that Destroyer returns to play, hale and healthy as if nothing ever happened. But, Unit B’s arrack? That’s enough to ‘destroy’ two of the unit’s models. Provided at least one remains in play, I still roll 6 D6, requiring a minimum of 3 5+ results to return a Destroyer to play.

This of course means units consisting entirely of single wound models are really, really tough to eradicate, as each success is one back. Multi-wound models? Your opponent might want to get clever, and only spang enough damage on them to ensure I’m only ever rolling a single model, given the likelihood of sparing all the wounds is pretty slim, even with modifiers and re-rolls.

Isn't there about a 4% chance of managing 3 5+'s? It seems overly harsh to the multiwound models.

RP has an odd scaling issue.

It's obvious that it's much better for W1 models.

However, with W2+ models; kill one model and it's not likely to reassemble. Kill multiple W2+ models and now the odds of reassembly increase as more dice are added to the pool.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Oh wait, the multi-wound model reanimating thing is even weirder.

Lychguard again. 1 dies. 2 dice rolled to reanimate - 1x 5, 1x2.
The 5 goes into the pool.

Next time the same Lychguard unit has to roll RP (assuming still 1 dead) that's 2 dice to roll, any 5's go into the pool. Pool has at least 2 in it, revive a Lychguard.

The question now turns into do you only roll RP after the unit (Lychguard in this example) have been attacked / shot / hit in melee or do they get to to it more often than that?

Multi-wound models could come back by just 'banking' the successes until you have enough to revive one?

Nope read the last bit - the "pool" is dumped after each combat resolution. So you can't save them up, you get one separate pool per unit attacking you.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Oh wait, the multi-wound model reanimating thing is even weirder.

Lychguard again. 1 dies. 2 dice rolled to reanimate - 1x 5, 1x2.
The 5 goes into the pool.

Next time the same Lychguard unit has to roll RP (assuming still 1 dead) that's 2 dice to roll, any 5's go into the pool. Pool has at least 2 in it, revive a Lychguard.

The question now turns into do you only roll RP after the unit (Lychguard in this example) have been attacked / shot / hit in melee or do they get to to it more often than that?

Multi-wound models could come back by just 'banking' the successes until you have enough to revive one?

Any leftover dice or failed models are removed, so nope :(

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Oh wait, the multi-wound model reanimating thing is even weirder.

Lychguard again. 1 dies. 2 dice rolled to reanimate - 1x 5, 1x2.
The 5 goes into the pool.

Next time the same Lychguard unit has to roll RP (assuming still 1 dead) that's 2 dice to roll, any 5's go into the pool. Pool has at least 2 in it, revive a Lychguard.

The question now turns into do you only roll RP after the unit (Lychguard in this example) have been attacked / shot / hit in melee or do they get to to it more often than that?

Multi-wound models could come back by just 'banking' the successes until you have enough to revive one?

No. See the last sentence of the rule, as the pool empties each time.

 oni wrote:
RP has an odd scaling issue.

It's obvious that it's much better for W1 models.

However, with W2+ models; kill one model and it's not likely to reassemble. Kill multiple W2+ models and now the odds of reassembly increase as more dice are added to the pool.

Exactly so your opponent has to think carefully how to attack multiwound models.

Is it just me, or is that a really wordy way of giving them a worse version of FNP?

It's FNP which can be negated by wiping out squad and is less useful on multi wound models basically.

Only small advantage is being able to replace models in new positions

Ah, missed that line. Hmm.

Any dice still in the pool are discarded after you've finished rolling, so no banking successes.

The weirdness to me is this: you're encouraged to commit enough shots to wipe out a unit then fire. But, you will get more multi wound models back if you roll more RP dice together. So, if you undershoot and get 18 wounds on a 20 wound unit, a good chunk of it is going to jump back up. Far more than if you'd done 18x 1 damage attacks seperately! EDIT: apologies, this is the point oni made above :slowpoke:

Dudeface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Long range marksmen is altered a fair bit is it not?

Doesnt work on flamers anymore but all flamers are getting +4 range this eddition...They are getting it for free now LOL.

So Space wolves/DA/BA are all getting a +1 stat and another useful ability.

Sure hope Ultras get something useful. This +1 LD just don't cutt it man. Fall back and shoot is so meh...even if they remove the -1 to hit part of it - it's so meh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BroodSpawn wrote:
The only major clarification I think that's needed is if the successors are still benefitting from the Parent super-doctrine bonus or not.

Do we even have an info about superdoctrines still being a thing?

Since doctrines still exist and the supplements aren't invalidated, yes the super doctrines still exist. The only unknown is what the normal doctrines do, WD confirmed they're a thing but didn't state if they were still -1 ap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
UK prices up from Valrak on B&C, which makes some of the conversion rates... odd?

The prices don't follow actual exchange　rates but price bands.

Oh I get that but they don't even line up with UK existing price bands for the relative bracket in dollars.

I think it is quite a reach. We shall see shortly though I suppose.

Doohicky wrote:
Is it just me, or is that a really wordy way of giving them a worse version of FNP?

It's FNP which can be negated by wiping out squad and is less useful on multi wound models basically.

Only small advantage is being able to replace models in new positions

Yeah I agree, I kind of feel we're not seeing what the intended at the moment, just the raw rules which are less than clear.

Doohicky wrote:
Is it just me, or is that a really wordy way of giving them a worse version of FNP?

It's FNP which can be negated by wiping out squad and is less useful on multi wound models basically.

Only small advantage is being able to replace models in new positions

It's likely because there are going to be ways to bring back models that have failed their RP. Rites of Reanimation, Res Orbs, Stratagems, etc.

The way I read it, you keep re-rolling (with a pool reduced by successes each time) until you have not enough successes to reanimate a model, or all the models are reanimated. In that way, it's even better than FnP for 1 wounds models.

Given GW has worded it quite clearly it might well be that the codex offers multiple ways to boost at at different stages of the RP process. Hence why they've spelled it out clearly.

You might get options to boost the dice roll (only by +-1); or the ability to add dice to the pool or the ability to preserve the pool etc... There's quite a lot of flexibility in there to change the result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quasistellar wrote:
The way I read it, you keep re-rolling (with a pool reduced by successes each time) until you have not enough successes to reanimate a model, or all the models are reanimated. In that way, it's even better than FnP for 1 wounds models.

You only roll once at the start. All the dice you roll which are 5+ get put into the pool. You then reduce the number of dice by wounds restored until you've not enough dice left to restore a model to full wounds; or you have no more models to restore. At that point all the dice left in the pool are lost.



If that unit gets attacked again by a different attacking unit then you'd roll again and create a brand new pool.

edit - utter fail.

 Sasori wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Is it just me, or is that a really wordy way of giving them a worse version of FNP?

It's FNP which can be negated by wiping out squad and is less useful on multi wound models basically.

Only small advantage is being able to replace models in new positions

It's likely because there are going to be ways to bring back models that have failed their RP. Rites of Reanimation, Res Orbs, Stratagems, etc.

I hope you are right here, would be nice if there is a command phase reanimation on top of this one triggered by one/some of the above you mentioned.

On a separate note, seeing the new c'tan get the 'max wounds per phase' how likely do people think this will be added to other big models such as primarchs/daemon primarchs?

 Sasori wrote:

Doohicky wrote:
Is it just me, or is that a really wordy way of giving them a worse version of FNP?

It's FNP which can be negated by wiping out squad and is less useful on multi wound models basically.

Only small advantage is being able to replace models in new positions

It's likely because there are going to be ways to bring back models that have failed their RP. Rites of Reanimation, Res Orbs, Stratagems, etc.

Based on the wording of RP being quite involved with referencing models destroyed by the attack, I'm now quite inclined to believe that Rites is a 'heal D3 wounds/models'-type ability like the Hospitaller or the Bonereapers.