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Counter Temporal nanomines looking by far my favourite choice out of the bunch. Quantum orb is pretty nice too to shut down an objective.

I have to say, a lot of those abilities are a lot less interesting than I'd hoped.

Also, given how difficult multi-wound models like Destroyers are to bring back with the new RP, the fact that Rites of Reanimation also can't bring them back, except with a once-per-game relic is very disappointing.

I agree that the psychomancer one looks nice, though. CounterTemporal Nanomines might be okay, too.

They went out of their way to strip any reason to run Aggressors out of them. They are completely bland now. Out of the army they go. I will run Inceptors instead.

Aggressors will still definitely find a place in some armies. They'll still be good in sallies+IF.

Just far less of an auto-include (as most of the book is turning into, overly better balanced choices)

edit- most

So any info on what the rules for Relic Terminators are? Cataphractii, Tartaros, a choice of either, some sort of an amalgamation of the two? I'd like to know, just in case gw decides to do the right thing and give a similar unit to the marines for whom such armour marks aren't "relics", but just the armour they've always had since the Heresy.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So any info on what the rules for Relic Terminators are? Cataphractii, Tartaros, a choice of either, some sort of an amalgamation of the two? I'd like to know, just in case gw decides to do the right thing and give a similar unit to the marines for whom such armour marks aren't "relics", but just the armour they've always had since the Heresy.

If they've had it since The Heresy, isn't it a relic by now?

 vipoid wrote:
I have to say, a lot of those abilities are a lot less interesting than I'd hoped.

Also, given how difficult multi-wound models like Destroyers are to bring back with the new RP, the fact that Rites of Reanimation also can't bring them back, except with a once-per-game relic is very disappointing.

I agree that the psychomancer one looks nice, though. CounterTemporal Nanomines might be okay, too.

At least the destroyers seem to be costed ability for not bringing a lot back. 35 pts for the Ophdidyan and Skorpekh are pretty good.


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 Sasori wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I have to say, a lot of those abilities are a lot less interesting than I'd hoped.

Also, given how difficult multi-wound models like Destroyers are to bring back with the new RP, the fact that Rites of Reanimation also can't bring them back, except with a once-per-game relic is very disappointing.

I agree that the psychomancer one looks nice, though. CounterTemporal Nanomines might be okay, too.

At least the destroyers seem to be costed ability for not bringing a lot back. 35 pts for the Ophdidyan and Skorpekh are pretty good.

Also, it looks like Res Orbs are OPG for rolling RP in the command phase, including on models that have died already. The relic adds +1 to the rolls.

 Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So any info on what the rules for Relic Terminators are? Cataphractii, Tartaros, a choice of either, some sort of an amalgamation of the two? I'd like to know, just in case gw decides to do the right thing and give a similar unit to the marines for whom such armour marks aren't "relics", but just the armour they've always had since the Heresy.

If they've had it since The Heresy, isn't it a relic by now?

Maybe, but by that logic almost all csm units, including the marines themselves, are relics. But the point is it makes sense that these marks of armour should be available to The Legions, possibly more than the newer Indomutus pattern. But that's an argument for another thread. I'd just like to see the loyalist units rules.

CSM time is wibbly wobbly, wheras loyalist marines have actually had to upkeep the suits for 10000 years.
Also CSM do get those marks. Tsons are tartaros and DG are cataphract.

From the datasheet, it looks like they just combined the two heresy terminators as they have the shared weapons between the two kits. And then they just cut the suit specific abilities (4++ and 6" move) to clean them up. Honestly a good thing, as those suits were just splitting hairs. Now they're just terminators with fancy weapon loadouts.

Kinda wish we'd get TH/SS in there as well to represent some of the Loyalist 30k models such as Firedrakes, but oh well, assault termies they shall count as and remain

Gonna be real here?

As someone who plays both of these armies to one degree or other, tonight is eating a lot of my residual enthusiasm to get back into this game after lockdown ends.

I mean sure, cool new Necron models, my most collected and played faction? I wanna get my hands on those and work on them. There’s even a few marine models I might grab for my experimental “I have some starter set primaris from two editions starters anyhow so I might as well make a primaris chapter even if I dislike a lot of the lore that led to them” army...

But damn, the core rules changed so much arbitrary stuff with no coherent game plan, then these books are so arbitrary and slipshod as well... What’s the point playing? What’s the point even going back to earlier editions, given it’d be a lot harder to find an opponent and I couldn’t use much of my collection?

It’s all so horribly incompetent.

 McGibs wrote:
CSM time is wibbly wobbly, wheras loyalist marines have actually had to upkeep the suits for 10000 years.
Also CSM do get those marks. Tsons are tartaros and DG are cataphract.

That's only two out of nine Legions. But if they've actually changed the rules as you explain here:

From the datasheet, it looks like they just combined the two heresy terminators as they have the shared weapons between the two kits. And then they just cut the suit specific abilities (4++ and 6" move) to clean them up. Honestly a good thing, as those suits were just splitting hairs. Now they're just terminators with fancy weapon loadouts.

Then, meh. I'll just continue to use mine as better looking Chaos Terminators. Which it sounds like what they basically are now for loyalists. Sounds like a waste of page space really. What weapons do they gain? Plasma blasters? And volkite, I guess. And...Reaper ac's? Loyalists get Reapers? Oh for .

355pts for a tank that, by the numbers, heavy melta rifle eradicators can pretty easily yeet turn 1 from outside melta range.

Absolutely bizarre...I wonder if we're going to see big vehicles getting that "only X wounds per phase" rule that might as well be called "We Swallowed A Spider To Eat The Fly"?

the_scotsman wrote:
355pts for a tank that, by the numbers, heavy melta rifle eradicators can pretty easily yeet turn 1 from outside melta range.

Absolutely bizarre...I wonder if we're going to see big vehicles getting that "only X wounds per phase" rule that might as well be called "We Swallowed A Spider To Eat The Fly"?

I’d say it’s more likely to see a point increase to Eradicators. They’re just bonkers atm.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
355pts for a tank that, by the numbers, heavy melta rifle eradicators can pretty easily yeet turn 1 from outside melta range.

Absolutely bizarre...I wonder if we're going to see big vehicles getting that "only X wounds per phase" rule that might as well be called "We Swallowed A Spider To Eat The Fly"?

I’d say it’s more likely to see a point increase to Eradicators. They’re just bonkers atm.

I'd say eradicators will have to become more expensive while some vehicles will have to come down in price. Eradicators aren't the only things getting more deadly for vehicles.

I would really like to know more about making a war council and what the upgrades are.
Also what the modified chapter tactics complete list is and relic list

Imgur link with a bunch of leaked SM data sheets (all masters of chapter, new landspeeder and tank variants) from reddit thread: https://imgur.com/a/Lh4Q7hJ

Is there any link to Necron codex pictures? Or are there non outside the Ctan powers and doom stalker/ghost ark?

 Billagio wrote:
Imgur link with a bunch of leaked SM data sheets (all masters of chapter, new landspeeder and tank variants) from reddit thread: https://imgur.com/a/Lh4Q7hJ

This might be the most exciting bit out of all of that!

So there are restrictions of what Chapter can take what.

So much bloat. The Grav Captains being separate entries is so fething stupid that it's hard to grasp. Not to mention that the Vet Intercessors have literally no rules differences and just could've been a consolidated profile and just made them troops. Let's be honest, if Heavy Intercessors aren't breaking things nobody would've cared about Vet Intercessors being a potential troop choice. They already kinda WERE.


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OH and every new tank having a separate profile is totally necessary.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Imgur link with a bunch of leaked SM data sheets (all masters of chapter, new landspeeder and tank variants) from reddit thread: https://imgur.com/a/Lh4Q7hJ

Spoiler:

This might be the most exciting bit out of all of that!

So there are restrictions of what Chapter can take what.

Yes, I hope it spreads to other subfactions in other codexes. Sometimes it's what you can't have that makes a faction special. Like "Night Lords can't take any unit with a mark of chaos other than Undivided". Get those chaos botherers out of my nihilistic, godless Legion.

@Slayer-Fan: Wait until you see that they made a data sheet just to give Cataphractii and Tartaros the same stats and abilities as every other terminator with a few special weapon options. Bloat for the Bloat God!

Vehicles are looking pretty useless with the buffs to anti-tank generally not being matched with any sort of buff to the tank datasheets we've seen (and in fact a nerf to impulsors). Why anyone would take that gladiator thing in a game where there are eradicators, I just don't know.

Hard to see where GW thinks it's going with this, except for the predictable "we don't know how to balance stuff so we just keep inflating stats generally in a haphazard way."

Eradicators may ironically cause themselves to go extinct simply because nobody'll take anything worth having them shoot at, like the predator that eats all the prey then starves to death.

edit: That hammerfall bunker is just stupid, too. I don't know any other word to describe it.

Am I the only one whose noticed that none of the primaris floaty tanks have the fly keyword on their data sheets? Another win for real tanks!

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Am I the only one whose noticed that none of the primaris floaty tanks have the fly keyword on their data sheets? Another win for real tanks!

EDIT: NM that doesn't make any sense.

Yeah it looks like primaris tanks lost FLY, which is a good change.

So, the Hammerfall Bunker couldn't just fire regular krak missles like us CSM peasents, oh no. It has to fire Str. 10 SUPERkrak missles instead, give me a break GW.

It also shoots 3 BS4+ shots at every eligible target... That is going to be such a time sink for minimal effect lol.

On the plus side of the tanks, if my midnight envelop math is correct, the anti-infantry tank (lancer) does a little less than half the wounds the anti-tank tank (reaper) does to other Gladiators. Edit: woops, almost a third. Did the math as if they d6 damage weapons, not d3+3)

So at least they didn't screw things up like the Leman Russ anti-infantry and anti-tank variants.

yukishiro1 wrote:Yeah it looks like primaris tanks lost FLY, which is a good change.

Yeah, it gives something back to the Xenos factions for whom flying tanks used to be "their thing". Also puts them back on the ground with real tanks. No more flying over terrain for loyalist armour.

Vanican wrote:So, the Hammerfall Bunker couldn't just fire regular krak missles like us CSM peasents, oh no. It has to fire Str. 10 SUPERkrak missles instead, give me a break GW.

So another thing that can wound my Fellblade on 3s. If gw keeps this up they better have something nice for my 300+ ton monster in the Imperial Armour Compendium.