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2020/10/05 14:16:06
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote: Can anyone kindly check the wording on Vassal Dynasties and the Dynasty-specific things?
If I'm making a custom Dynasty and choose it to be a Vassal of Nephrekh, is there anything I miss out on? Stratagems or relics or anything? Or does it end up being "Nephrekh but purple"?
Tabletop Titans are doing a live review later
But from what they said during the live game only marines get the full strategums & relics if you choose a build your own chapter.
2020/10/05 14:22:31
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Ice_can wrote: But from what they said during the live game only marines get the full strategums & relics if you choose a build your own chapter.
Oh good. I'm glad we're still going with 'Marines get objectively better rules than everyone else just because'.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/10/05 14:39:42
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Ice_can wrote: Because GW can't do consistent writing, they often use from any part of the model as if its copy and pasted, without thinking if it is what they mean.
Remember when in 5th edition we had competent writer that actually played the game? With the most balanced books in 40k history, points and options tailored to individual units (on datasheets, too, instead of stupid flipping 575754 times to armory/points page insanity), very generous counts as (no 'model/paint scheme X can only mean X'), LOS rules written with not penalizing modelling in mind (that was edition that ignored banners, guns, wings, hands, etc), rules written to be flavorful and to cover holes in army (outright telling you to convert chapter master or chief apothecary instead of 'buy this specific no-options captain' we have now)?
Alas, loud children didn't like two words of fluff so we had to suffer for three editions with Kelly, Cruddace and co instead, TYVM whiners
I was actually reminded of 5th edition book while reading this one, BTW - in 5th edition, Chapter Master was introduced as peer of the Imperium, ruler of particular subsector, and brilliant strategist. Someone who actually did important things. Waving a sword wasn't his job, hell, 5th edition created Honour Guard, unit made out of guys whose only job was keeping enemies busy so Chapter Master can command in peace. Now, in 9th edition, HG is gone and Chapter Master's introduction is that of a Rambo who charges enemies first so he can rack biggest Fortnite killcounts, killstreaks, and killsteals, very little mention of commanding anything. Gee, I wonder which one is more fluffy/sensible
Oh yeah, I remember how balanced Grey Knights and Longfang missile spam were. You absolutely couldn't erase an entire table at one time, no sir. And who could forget all the lovely fluff about using Sisters of Battle as Armor Paint. Nothing arse slowed there at all!
edit: Removed, please avoid making such hyperbolic political comparisons
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/05 15:58:02
2020/10/05 15:14:17
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
tneva82 wrote: And you seem "if everything isn't perfect everything sucks" type who hasn't heard of thing called "scale". 70% perfect is way better than 35% perfect.
Yeah, 5th edition certainly had its issues, but I'd argue the core rules were still vastly superior to any that followed (including those of 8th and 9th).
I think a revised 5th edition, especially if given the rules and point cost support 8th was, would have been vastly, vastly better than the monstrosities that were 6th and 7th edition.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2020/10/05 15:44:27
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
tneva82 wrote: And you seem "if everything isn't perfect everything sucks" type who hasn't heard of thing called "scale". 70% perfect is way better than 35% perfect.
Yeah, 5th edition certainly had its issues, but I'd argue the core rules were still vastly superior to any that followed (including those of 8th and 9th).
I think a revised 5th edition, especially if given the rules and point cost support 8th was, would have been vastly, vastly better than the monstrosities that were 6th and 7th edition.
the core rules certainly were more indepth... the missions i am sceptical...
The armies though, leafblower and grey knights... i am unsure if i'd like that state again... but then again we also had SM 2.0 IH and consorts...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2020/10/05 15:53:26
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
They have put a surprising amount of work into the Marine Supplement armies esp the Wolves, Angels and DW
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Mr Morden wrote: They have put a surprising amount of work into the Marine Supplement armies esp the Wolves, Angels and DW
This is absolute bs. Deathwatch lost the overwhelming majority of their special rules as a result of this "surprisingly well worked" update.
We have zero stratagems, 1 WLT, no relics, SIA only functions on two datasheets (that's right, if you're Primaris, no SIA for you!), and to top it all off, the mixed squad rules that actually made the faction anything other than "black marines" are completely gone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 16:34:24
2020/10/05 16:38:19
Subject: Re:Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Mr Morden wrote: They have put a surprising amount of work into the Marine Supplement armies esp the Wolves, Angels and DW
This is absolute bs. Deathwatch lost the overwhelming majority of their special rules as a result of this "surprisingly well worked" update.
We have zero stratagems, 1 WLT, no relics, SIA only functions on two datasheets (that's right, if you're Primaris, no SIA for you!), and to top it all off, the mixed squad rules that actually made the faction anything other than "black marines" are completely gone.
I did not say it was good - just that they had put quite a bit of work in - I was expecting a straight single page at most for each Supplement Chapter.
You can have mixed squads but it looks like inferior ones to normal versions of their unit?
Spoiler:
MIXED UNITWhen faced with an array of missions to complete and varying enemies to lay low, the Deathwatch are highly adept at forming effective kill teams that mesh starkly diverse armour and equipment.If this unit contains models with different Toughness characteristics, each time an attack is made against this unit, use the Toughness characteristic of the majority of the models in this unit when determining what roll is required for that attack to successfully wound. If two or more Toughness characteristics are tied for majority, the controlling player selects one of the tied values to be the majority value.For the purposes of the Bolter Discipline ability (see Codex: Space Marines) and for determining which models can embark within a Transport model, the following rules apply:• Deathwatch Terminator models have the Terminator keyword.• Veteran Biker models do not have the Infantry keyword and instead have the Biker keyword.• Vanguard Veteran models with jump packs have the Jump Pack keyword.• Inceptor models have the Jump Pack keyword. • Outrider models do not have the Infantry keyword and instead have the Biker keyword.Vanguard Veterans with jump packs and Inceptors can move across terrain as if they have the Fly keyword.Note that for the purposes of interacting with terrain features, all models in this unit are treated as Infantry, even if this unit contains any Biker models that might behave differently or have specific restrictions whilst interacting with a terrain feature.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 16:41:58
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I think for all the marine chapters I would wait until the codex supplement comes out. Look at the difference between Indomitus and Codex Necrons. I am sure these are not the final rules for any of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 16:44:20
2020/10/05 16:43:26
Subject: Re:Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
That may be the biggest hint of all that Deathwatch will be the first supplement off the press. Why bother doing an in-depth FAQ update for a faction you know will have its new book in, say, 3 or 4 weeks...?
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
2020/10/05 16:57:13
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
I'm looking forward to the New Necrons but man it's hard not to be bummed about that Monolith. I just saw that they also changed Dimensional Corridor so that you have to be more than 9" away from enemies when you come out.
That was like the one fun thing to do with Monoliths - deep strike them down - hope and pray they survive for one turn and then teleport a unit from across the table into your opponent's face. And it's at the start of the turn so if the enemy moves around you or charges you can't move out of range first and teleport your guys in.
Oy. What a dud.
*Edit* BUT if they're in strategic reserves they CAN come out of a monolith just over 1" away from enemies for 1 cp... because GW internal logic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 17:06:25
2020/10/05 17:08:13
Subject: Re:Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Mr Morden wrote: They have put a surprising amount of work into the Marine Supplement armies esp the Wolves, Angels and DW
This is absolute bs. Deathwatch lost the overwhelming majority of their special rules as a result of this "surprisingly well worked" update.
We have zero stratagems, 1 WLT, no relics, SIA only functions on two datasheets (that's right, if you're Primaris, no SIA for you!), and to top it all off, the mixed squad rules that actually made the faction anything other than "black marines" are completely gone.
Welcome to the club.. However I am sorry your marines are less mariney than other marines..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 17:08:41
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
WTF they nerfed IF AGAIN! So now only Heavy weapons STR 7 or higher do an extra damage in devastator doctrine. They keep making the worst chapter worse for NO reason. The whole super trait never made sense to start with ig they were going to errata and nerf it why not just give us a new one such as an extra buff to bolt weapons in the tactical doctrine.
Well I’m done with 40K. @$#% you GW!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/05 17:37:30
2020/10/05 17:36:13
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Looks like Chosen are still only 1 Wound and CSM Terminators only get 2 vs Loyalist 3
Yep they said that would be the case - not sure why and don;t agree with it but they did flag that up when they annouced the big faq update to weapons.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Looks like Chosen are still only 1 Wound and CSM Terminators only get 2 vs Loyalist 3
Yep they said that would be the case - not sure why and don;t agree with it but they did flag that up when they annouced the big faq update to weapons.
I must have skimmed over that bit.
2020/10/05 17:48:48
Subject: Re:Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
So far my biggest objection is that we now have weapons scaled to two totally different power levels from 8th edition and the new 9th edition while apparently the MFM2020 points are for the 9th edition stats.
That GW thinks this is acceptable explains why balance is so rediculously out of touch.
2020/10/05 18:13:34
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Domandi wrote: So there was no update for orks other than the prophecy updates. Is this a hint that the original codex is coming soon?
No. Just that they don't share any similar weapons with Space Marines.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2020/10/05 18:14:58
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I'm looking forward to the New Necrons but man it's hard not to be bummed about that Monolith. I just saw that they also changed Dimensional Corridor so that you have to be more than 9" away from enemies when you come out.
That was like the one fun thing to do with Monoliths - deep strike them down - hope and pray they survive for one turn and then teleport a unit from across the table into your opponent's face. And it's at the start of the turn so if the enemy moves around you or charges you can't move out of range first and teleport your guys in.
Oy. What a dud.
*Edit* BUT if they're in strategic reserves they CAN come out of a monolith just over 1" away from enemies for 1 cp... because GW internal logic.
Turn the monolith so the corridor is 3, 6, or 9 o'clock and you'll add a up to 4" while keeping the monolith closer.
Domandi wrote: So there was no update for orks other than the prophecy updates. Is this a hint that the original codex is coming soon?
Nope. Just that don't have any same-name weapons (like Tyranids)
Flamers and powerswords pop up in some Xenos lists, and GSC have a whole pile of stuff.
Mind you, since Orks and Dark Eldar have had glimpses of a model shown off (like Death Guard), I'd put them on the short list for the 'Early 2021' Xenos codex that's been officially mentioned.
It isn't a certainty, since there was also a Sister (and we've had no word in their direction), but I'd put pretty good odds on Orks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/05 18:19:32
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/10/05 18:31:17
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
Come on guys. You're all forgetting about the large diverse group of community-known playtesters that said the game is good. It's all good, just relax.
2020/10/05 18:49:32
Subject: Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch 
Eldar- 4436 pts
