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2020/08/03 23:33:12
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
I don't really care about the rest of your post though...and saying that they were an Elite choice isn't really a "single insignificant point". You lumped them in with Stormtroopers, who existed before that.
C: EoT actually established them as their own unit, and as a Troops choice to boot. Then we got the Doctrines book, which took that same concept and expanded it to anyone who took the 'Grenadiers' doctrine.
2020/08/03 23:35:32
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
I imagine once GW breaks into the main market like it wants, you'll see a lot of Grimdark lore get whitewashed to help with mass market appeal. Heck, I'll argue it's already happening now. Space Marines are definitely being portrayed as "heroic" and "champions" against chaos. (I.E. Good Humans vs. Bad Humans)
in a universe as fethed up as 40k...good is relative. Tau are "good"(sorry couldnt type that w a straight face, bout as evil as they come), nids are good(as in not evil or w malice, they're just really, really hungry), and orks are good(they just want a good scrum).
Anyone that has ever read anything about the imperium is either;
(a) fooling themselves into thinking they're good
or
(b) doesnt have a firm grasp of what good is
or
(c) likes how fethed up and hypocritical the Imperium has become
Redemptors literally burn their pilots out, Brazen Drakes were guilty of having the wrong geneseed(albeit unknowingly), and half of the ecclesiastical organizations want Guiliman dead(a literal son of BiggiE. cant get more grimdark than that!).
My Salamanders Astartes and Primaris will continue to serve the Imperium until they no longer can...which will be for all intents and purposes into perpetuity.
2020/08/03 23:35:42
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
They used the stormtrooper profiles, but lacked the special rules of Stormtroopers.
Also, Kasrkin were Troops in Codex: Eye of Terror (where they first got rules).
Is that like "Primaris are not Space Marines"?
It's more like saying "Sternguard are Tactical Marines". They are...but they're also not?
There's a reason why I specifically call it out as related to Codex: Eye of Terror. It's the only place we have actually gotten, a one hundred percent legitimately named "Kasrkin Squad".
2020/08/03 23:36:24
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
Kanluwen wrote: I don't really care about the rest of your post though...and saying that they were an Elite choice isn't really a "single insignificant point". You lumped them in with Stormtroopers, who existed before that.
C: EoT actually established them as their own unit, and as a Troops choice to boot. Then we got the Doctrines book, which took that same concept and expanded it to anyone who took the 'Grenadiers' doctrine.
I'll just post it again, to irritate you - I'm a right bastard like that.
GW released Primaris Marines AFTER they released Super Guardsmen (Tempestus Scions), originally the Super Guardsmen were Elites choices called Stormtroopers or Kasrkin, then they were renamed to Tempestus Scions, then they got moved to the Troops slot, and are pure and simple, just BETTER Guardsmen...
In GW's eyes, the move worked, they released a new line of models, and people went with it. They then released a supplement Codex: Militarum Tempestus in 7E, and that was well received, thus creating drive for a Detachment choice for the Tempestus in 8E... Interestingly enough this was also when GW released their Primaris Space Marines...
Overall, I don't think they killed their 'Golden Goose', but that said, I don't agree with changing the lore as crazily as they have. For Guardsmen I would have been more content if they released the metal regiments in plastic instead, to coincide with the specific regiment choices. As for Marines, there really wasn't much they could do outside of 'Go Bigger', everything else had been pretty much done already.
The scale of the game has changed significantly since 3E... During 3E you had a small force, maybe a couple of transports, perhaps ONE tank, some troops, a crack Elites choice, and that was about it.
Then you start getting bigger and better units in subsequent editions; Sternguard, Kasrkin, Vehicle squadrons, etc... This drive created a need for having MORE tanks, MORE big stuff, etc... Until you have now, where we encounter Imperial Knights regularly enough that we need to build our lists for the expectation we will run into one.
I will not rest until the Tabletop Imperial Guard has been reduced to complete mediocrity. This is completely reflected in the lore.
2020/08/03 23:41:26
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
As GW's plastic technology got better and better, and more and more things made the conversion from metal to plastic (and ignoring that whole FineCost debacle), I always thought that GW would eventually paint themselves into a corner when it came to Marine releases. I mean, there are only so many times you can re-cut the Tac/Dev/Assault sprues without it becoming gratuitous. For a while they added to the Marine range with units that had "always been there", just slightly off camera (Centurions, the Marine aircraft) but even that would run out of steam eventually. So they had to do something.
Unfortunately, GW's concepts are often left disappointed by their execution.
So we got Cawl's super-Marines that have been in stasis for 10,000 years, along with a host of super-hover vehicles that are apparently easy to manufacture en-mass. Yes, it was cynical, yes, it was ham-handed, but really what else could they do?
I suspect there is a real concern about that for GW's suits as they try to position 40k for broader mass appeal. It's a difficult line to tread, because of course the fact that the Imperium isn't just The Good Guys (TM) is what makes the setting interesting. But I do think the general "We're The Heroes!" aesthetic of the Primaris is evidence of the general tilt of where the IP is being pushed.
I think part of the problem is that its becoming apparent that all the things that make the Imperium not "The Good Guys (TM)" are things that draw an unfortunate audience of people who see those things as reasons the Imperium ARE the good guys....
I think this is hitting on an extremely interesting issue where the dystopian nature of 40k is intersecting with increasingly dystopian elements of real life. To keep it light and not branch into politics; the 21st century has seen strong growth in extremist viewpoints, even stronger growth in harmful misinformation, erosion of basic democracy in many parts of the world, not to mention a rapidly accelerating deterioration of the world itself. I don't bring this up as some alarmist nonsense (humanity will deal with it) but rather to say that these are issues which are very real and very present in people's lives today. It means witnessing those same elements in 40k cuts a lot closer to home than it did last century, it makes the reality-escape element more difficult to attain.
I saw a guy today on FB complain that one of the SM biker(I guess sgt?) is not wearing a helmet. And that he was angry as it set a bad example to his kid whom he is hobbying with and whome he alwyas explained he must wear a helmet when wearing his bcycle. I kid you not...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 00:36:11
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Nobody's arguing the Imperium used to be the good guys. In fact the whole point of the observation is that the positioning of Primaris as more conventional heroes is at odds with the 40k universe as it has evolved up until Primaris. A lot of this can be laid at the feet of Girlyman and his lack of fleshing out as an interesting character beyond simply being Super Hero Man, but he's so closely associated with them that he's dragged them along with him.
They feel like the brighter, friendlier, less intimidating, more vanilla cousins. Space Marines have always been brighter and more vanilla than the rest of the Imperium, but Primaris take that a step further.
A bolder IP owner - the GW of twenty years ago, for example - would have used Primaris to double down on the grimdark by positioning them as flawed in equal measure to their power, more powerful but also more dangerous and unstable than oldmarines, and they would have used that to explore the old defining tension in the Imperium between power and order versus morality and humanity. Instead we got primaris that are just better in every way than oldmarines, literal ubermensch as designed by someone without a sense of history or irony. And then they immediately started converting most of the old characters too, rather than using them to play off.
There are little hints here and there of this more interesting approach, but they're very much only little hints. What could have been an opportunity to explore the defining tension of the Imperium - the difficulty of fighting monsters without becoming one - instead ends up undermining whole idea by Mary Sueing itself out of the problem.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 01:10:40
2020/08/04 01:36:03
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
I imagine once GW breaks into the main market like it wants, you'll see a lot of Grimdark lore get whitewashed to help with mass market appeal. Heck, I'll argue it's already happening now. Space Marines are definitely being portrayed as "heroic" and "champions" against chaos. (I.E. Good Humans vs. Bad Humans)
in a universe as fethed up as 40k...good is relative. Tau are "good"(sorry couldnt type that w a straight face, bout as evil as they come), nids are good(as in not evil or w malice, they're just really, really hungry), and orks are good(they just want a good scrum).
Anyone that has ever read anything about the imperium is either;
(a) fooling themselves into thinking they're good
or
(b) doesnt have a firm grasp of what good is
or
(c) likes how fethed up and hypocritical the Imperium has become
Redemptors literally burn their pilots out, Brazen Drakes were guilty of having the wrong geneseed(albeit unknowingly), and half of the ecclesiastical organizations want Guiliman dead(a literal son of BiggiE. cant get more grimdark than that!).
My Salamanders Astartes and Primaris will continue to serve the Imperium until they no longer can...which will be for all intents and purposes into perpetuity.
I think you missed the point. This is true.
I'm saying once GW get big enough, they'll abandon this and push for a more "Humanity good guys, Chaos bad guys, Aliens now mostly okay" in order to appeal to the larger market. It's not enough to say "IP x is a parody of Fascisim." Todays youth just do not want to even have it anywhere near their hobbies.
2020/08/04 01:41:40
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
I suspect there is a real concern about that for GW's suits as they try to position 40k for broader mass appeal. It's a difficult line to tread, because of course the fact that the Imperium isn't just The Good Guys (TM) is what makes the setting interesting. But I do think the general "We're The Heroes!" aesthetic of the Primaris is evidence of the general tilt of where the IP is being pushed.
I think part of the problem is that its becoming apparent that all the things that make the Imperium not "The Good Guys (TM)" are things that draw an unfortunate audience of people who see those things as reasons the Imperium ARE the good guys....
I think this is hitting on an extremely interesting issue where the dystopian nature of 40k is intersecting with increasingly dystopian elements of real life. To keep it light and not branch into politics; the 21st century has seen strong growth in extremist viewpoints, even stronger growth in harmful misinformation, erosion of basic democracy in many parts of the world, not to mention a rapidly accelerating deterioration of the world itself. I don't bring this up as some alarmist nonsense (humanity will deal with it) but rather to say that these are issues which are very real and very present in people's lives today. It means witnessing those same elements in 40k cuts a lot closer to home than it did last century, it makes the reality-escape element more difficult to attain.
I saw a guy today on FB complain that one of the SM biker(I guess sgt?) is not wearing a helmet. And that he was angry as it set a bad example to his kid whom he is hobbying with and whome he alwyas explained he must wear a helmet when wearing his bcycle.
I kid you not...
I believe you.
About 3 years ago PETA tried to get GW to remove the plastic fur on some of their miniatures...
Yes. They actually did that.
wtf is wrong w people, genetically modified super soldier who can take shots to the dome, has 2 hearts, & can literally rip a human in half, needs to wear a helmet????
I mean, if your kid cant make the distinction between humans(real) and post humans(imaginary), wtf have you been teaching them
2020/08/04 01:45:34
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
Kanluwen wrote: [You just don't want to buy anything. And that's fine. But don't pretend otherwise.
Don't call me a liar. I don't even know what you're rejecting, but I'm not making excuses. I don't want to replace my army, and feel that if I try to make a hybrid army I suspect (as others do) that the old collection will get squatted and I'll be left in an edition with two collections that don't fit. I dislike their tactics for pushing more models and my dislike of said tactics has influenced my buying choices. I don't have infinite hobby cash or time, so to that degree no I don't want to buy something that displeases me, but the same can be said for any number of other things while I buy other gaming stuff: not buying is a result, not a motivation.
Not Online!!! wrote: Meh , gw is just in the crossfire of the recent phenomenon of online screeching from small extremest minorities so far in their respective corner that they nearly meet again....
I wish I could exalt this 100 times.
When truth has become worthy of exaltation people lie too much and forgot that their vis a vis is still also a Person.
Um, yeah. That is not a new thing, online or in real life for that matter. Unfortunately.
I imagine once GW breaks into the main market like it wants, you'll see a lot of Grimdark lore get whitewashed to help with mass market appeal. Heck, I'll argue it's already happening now. Space Marines are definitely being portrayed as "heroic" and "champions" against chaos. (I.E. Good Humans vs. Bad Humans)
in a universe as fethed up as 40k...good is relative. Tau are "good"(sorry couldnt type that w a straight face, bout as evil as they come), nids are good(as in not evil or w malice, they're just really, really hungry), and orks are good(they just want a good scrum).
Anyone that has ever read anything about the imperium is either;
(a) fooling themselves into thinking they're good
or
(b) doesnt have a firm grasp of what good is
or
(c) likes how fethed up and hypocritical the Imperium has become
Redemptors literally burn their pilots out, Brazen Drakes were guilty of having the wrong geneseed(albeit unknowingly), and half of the ecclesiastical organizations want Guiliman dead(a literal son of BiggiE. cant get more grimdark than that!).
My Salamanders Astartes and Primaris will continue to serve the Imperium until they no longer can...which will be for all intents and purposes into perpetuity.
I think you missed the point. This is true.
I'm saying once GW get big enough, they'll abandon this and push for a more "Humanity good guys, Chaos bad guys, Aliens now mostly okay" in order to appeal to the larger market. It's not enough to say "IP x is a parody of Fascisim." Todays youth just do not want to even have it anywhere near their hobbies.
Considering they are getting it in their government instead can you blame them?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 02:27:42
I saw a guy today on FB complain that one of the SM biker(I guess sgt?) is not wearing a helmet. And that he was angry as it set a bad example to his kid whom he is hobbying with and whome he alwyas explained he must wear a helmet when wearing his bcycle.
I kid you not...
I bet he has no idea what his kid does when he's out of LOS.
Also, has the idiot thought about the rest of this hobby & what message it's sending? Look! A game about shooting & stabbing each other, worshiping demons, & genocide. But remember, if you ride a bike you must wear your helmet...
2020/08/04 03:10:04
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
I saw a guy today on FB complain that one of the SM biker(I guess sgt?) is not wearing a helmet. And that he was angry as it set a bad example to his kid whom he is hobbying with and whome he alwyas explained he must wear a helmet when wearing his bcycle. I kid you not...
I bet he has no idea what his kid does when he's out of LOS.
Also, has the idiot thought about the rest of this hobby & what message it's sending? Look! A game about shooting & stabbing each other, worshiping demons, & genocide. But remember, if you ride a bike you must wear your helmet...
Yeah its no so much that, is that he is literally riding into battle on a motorbike against wierd demons, bloodthirsty aliens that will flay him alive just for gaks and giggles and other that will suck out his bone marrow coz they hungry. The absurdity of him having his helmet on his belt and not on his head as some sort of priority is simply hilarious.
If your kid cant distinguish between reality and make believe nonsense that's on you and not the people making make believe nonsesne.. I mean does he also think GW is promoting purging heretics with the holy fire of the emperor? Lol.. It was juts soo stupid it irked me. If its such a big deal just stick one of the intercessor heads on him lol.. But thats what happens when everyone gets a voice and all of a sudden people want everything to be bubblewrapped in case they stub their toe...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 03:10:43
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Darnok wrote: Only then will anybody not willing to buy into Primaris and keep playing with "OldMarines only!!!" have a legitimate complaint - we are not there yet. And even then those people can still either use Legends rules in the (then current) edition ruleset, or continue to play an older edition.
The only one thing I wonder how GW will get around is this: once OldMarines are no longer sold, how are people supposed to play any scenario before the arrival of Primaris? That is 10000 years of SM background no longer accessible...
I disagree. Legitimate complaint is not only that real true marines have been poorly replaced by restartes nuweenies, but done so in bad faith and with a terrible rules edition at the same time.
GW is no longer a games and model company. It is a media company. They sell images. Rumors. Slogans e.g. #new40k.
Nobody wanted new.
About the lost 10,000 years of drama...
Exactly.
See legitimate complaint above.
Kanluwen wrote: [You just don't want to buy anything. And that's fine. But don't pretend otherwise.
Don't call me a liar. I don't even know what you're rejecting, but I'm not making excuses. I don't want to replace my army, and feel that if I try to make a hybrid army I suspect (as others do) that the old collection will get squatted and I'll be left in an edition with two collections that don't fit. I dislike their tactics for pushing more models and my dislike of said tactics has influenced my buying choices. I don't have infinite hobby cash or time, so to that degree no I don't want to buy something that displeases me, but the same can be said for any number of other things while I buy other gaming stuff: not buying is a result, not a motivation.
Exalted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: As GW's plastic technology got better and better, and more and more things made the conversion from metal to plastic (and ignoring that whole FineCost debacle), I always thought that GW would eventually paint themselves into a corner when it came to Marine releases. I mean, there are only so many times you can re-cut the Tac/Dev/Assault sprues without it becoming gratuitous. For a while they added to the Marine range with units that had "always been there", just slightly off camera (Centurions, the Marine aircraft) but even that would run out of steam eventually. So they had to do something.
Unfortunately, GW's concepts are often left disappointed by their execution.
So we got Cawl's super-Marines that have been in stasis for 10,000 years, along with a host of super-hover vehicles that are apparently easy to manufacture en-mass.
Yes, it was cynical, yes, it was ham-handed, but really what else could they do?
Centurions are terrible in every way.
They could and should have simply updated the line with true scale sculpts and updated the other races giving all more balanced attention... I would have slowly collected new models over the years and lots of new hobbyists would start lifelong hobby with hand me down OG marine units as old guys like me replaced theirs with new models...
But. They went with GI Joe in speehz...and I will not be collecting more GW models ... well, as many models anyways.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 05:28:38
.
2020/08/04 06:18:16
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
Not Online!!! wrote: Meh , gw is just in the crossfire of the recent phenomenon of online screeching from small extremest minorities so far in their respective corner that they nearly meet again....
I wish I could exalt this 100 times.
When truth has become worthy of exaltation people lie too much and forgot that their vis a vis is still also a Person.
Um, yeah. That is not a new thing, online or in real life for that matter. Unfortunately.
I imagine once GW breaks into the main market like it wants, you'll see a lot of Grimdark lore get whitewashed to help with mass market appeal. Heck, I'll argue it's already happening now. Space Marines are definitely being portrayed as "heroic" and "champions" against chaos. (I.E. Good Humans vs. Bad Humans)
in a universe as fethed up as 40k...good is relative. Tau are "good"(sorry couldnt type that w a straight face, bout as evil as they come), nids are good(as in not evil or w malice, they're just really, really hungry), and orks are good(they just want a good scrum).
Anyone that has ever read anything about the imperium is either;
(a) fooling themselves into thinking they're good
or
(b) doesnt have a firm grasp of what good is
or
(c) likes how fethed up and hypocritical the Imperium has become
Redemptors literally burn their pilots out, Brazen Drakes were guilty of having the wrong geneseed(albeit unknowingly), and half of the ecclesiastical organizations want Guiliman dead(a literal son of BiggiE. cant get more grimdark than that!).
My Salamanders Astartes and Primaris will continue to serve the Imperium until they no longer can...which will be for all intents and purposes into perpetuity.
I think you missed the point. This is true.
I'm saying once GW get big enough, they'll abandon this and push for a more "Humanity good guys, Chaos bad guys, Aliens now mostly okay" in order to appeal to the larger market. It's not enough to say "IP x is a parody of Fascisim." Todays youth just do not want to even have it anywhere near their hobbies.
Considering they are getting it in their government instead can you blame them?
In which government?
I am sorry but have you even had a real organized fascisct Party near you?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 06:18:45
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2020/08/04 06:30:55
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
Not Online!!! wrote: Meh , gw is just in the crossfire of the recent phenomenon of online screeching from small extremest minorities so far in their respective corner that they nearly meet again....
I wish I could exalt this 100 times.
When truth has become worthy of exaltation people lie too much and forgot that their vis a vis is still also a Person.
Um, yeah. That is not a new thing, online or in real life for that matter. Unfortunately.
I imagine once GW breaks into the main market like it wants, you'll see a lot of Grimdark lore get whitewashed to help with mass market appeal. Heck, I'll argue it's already happening now. Space Marines are definitely being portrayed as "heroic" and "champions" against chaos. (I.E. Good Humans vs. Bad Humans)
in a universe as fethed up as 40k...good is relative. Tau are "good"(sorry couldnt type that w a straight face, bout as evil as they come), nids are good(as in not evil or w malice, they're just really, really hungry), and orks are good(they just want a good scrum).
Anyone that has ever read anything about the imperium is either; (a) fooling themselves into thinking they're good or (b) doesnt have a firm grasp of what good is or (c) likes how fethed up and hypocritical the Imperium has become
Redemptors literally burn their pilots out, Brazen Drakes were guilty of having the wrong geneseed(albeit unknowingly), and half of the ecclesiastical organizations want Guiliman dead(a literal son of BiggiE. cant get more grimdark than that!).
My Salamanders Astartes and Primaris will continue to serve the Imperium until they no longer can...which will be for all intents and purposes into perpetuity.
I think you missed the point. This is true.
I'm saying once GW get big enough, they'll abandon this and push for a more "Humanity good guys, Chaos bad guys, Aliens now mostly okay" in order to appeal to the larger market. It's not enough to say "IP x is a parody of Fascisim." Todays youth just do not want to even have it anywhere near their hobbies.
Considering they are getting it in their government instead can you blame them?
Nah, I have accepted this is the way things are going to be for a while. It'll calm down eventually.
Darnok wrote: Only then will anybody not willing to buy into Primaris and keep playing with "OldMarines only!!!" have a legitimate complaint - we are not there yet. And even then those people can still either use Legends rules in the (then current) edition ruleset, or continue to play an older edition.
The only one thing I wonder how GW will get around is this: once OldMarines are no longer sold, how are people supposed to play any scenario before the arrival of Primaris? That is 10000 years of SM background no longer accessible...
I disagree. Legitimate complaint is not only that real true marines have been poorly replaced by restartes nuweenies, but done so in bad faith and with a terrible rules edition at the same time.
GW is no longer a games and model company. It is a media company. They sell images. Rumors. Slogans e.g. #new40k.
Nobody wanted new.
About the lost 10,000 years of drama... Exactly. See legitimate complaint above.
Kanluwen wrote: [You just don't want to buy anything. And that's fine. But don't pretend otherwise.
Don't call me a liar. I don't even know what you're rejecting, but I'm not making excuses. I don't want to replace my army, and feel that if I try to make a hybrid army I suspect (as others do) that the old collection will get squatted and I'll be left in an edition with two collections that don't fit. I dislike their tactics for pushing more models and my dislike of said tactics has influenced my buying choices. I don't have infinite hobby cash or time, so to that degree no I don't want to buy something that displeases me, but the same can be said for any number of other things while I buy other gaming stuff: not buying is a result, not a motivation.
Exalted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: As GW's plastic technology got better and better, and more and more things made the conversion from metal to plastic (and ignoring that whole FineCost debacle), I always thought that GW would eventually paint themselves into a corner when it came to Marine releases. I mean, there are only so many times you can re-cut the Tac/Dev/Assault sprues without it becoming gratuitous. For a while they added to the Marine range with units that had "always been there", just slightly off camera (Centurions, the Marine aircraft) but even that would run out of steam eventually. So they had to do something.
Unfortunately, GW's concepts are often left disappointed by their execution.
So we got Cawl's super-Marines that have been in stasis for 10,000 years, along with a host of super-hover vehicles that are apparently easy to manufacture en-mass. Yes, it was cynical, yes, it was ham-handed, but really what else could they do?
Centurions are terrible in every way.
They could and should have simply updated the line with true scale sculpts and updated the other races giving all more balanced attention... I would have slowly collected new models over the years and lots of new hobbyists would start lifelong hobby with hand me down OG marine units as old guys like me replaced theirs with new models...
But. They went with GI Joe in speehz...and I will not be collecting more GW models ... well, as many models anyways.
But you're ignoring the other half of the coin. Everything GW has done since the launch of 8th has been to restructure the armies, the game and most importantly to create copyrightable content. It wasn't simply enough to call them "Space Marines." Changing their very fabric was essential so that they could then apply for trademarks and copyrights to protect their IP.
Also, come on.
8th saved the game, was the best edition since I began in 6th and 9th so far looks great on paper. Unfortunately I can't play atm because of Covid. But to say that it was all done in "bad faith" is total bologna.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 06:34:42
2020/08/04 06:48:20
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
If your kid cant distinguish between reality and make believe nonsense that's on you and not the people making make believe nonsesne.. I mean does he also think GW is promoting purging heretics with the holy fire of the emperor? Lol..
Well I don't not how to say this, but twice a year we have big nationalist gathering in our capitol, and you would probably be suprised how many of them have purge it with fire on their shirts or other GW lore inspired stuff. And the people that join those demonstrations are 12 years, but adults.
Last year there was around 200k people just in the capital, and other cities and towns had their own too. So you don't have to be a child to think that what the empire does has a translation to real life or that it makes sense.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2020/08/04 06:49:46
Subject: Why did games workshop kill space marines?
Not Online!!! wrote: Meh , gw is just in the crossfire of the recent phenomenon of online screeching from small extremest minorities so far in their respective corner that they nearly meet again....
I wish I could exalt this 100 times.
When truth has become worthy of exaltation people lie too much and forgot that their vis a vis is still also a Person.
Um, yeah. That is not a new thing, online or in real life for that matter. Unfortunately.
I imagine once GW breaks into the main market like it wants, you'll see a lot of Grimdark lore get whitewashed to help with mass market appeal. Heck, I'll argue it's already happening now. Space Marines are definitely being portrayed as "heroic" and "champions" against chaos. (I.E. Good Humans vs. Bad Humans)
in a universe as fethed up as 40k...good is relative. Tau are "good"(sorry couldnt type that w a straight face, bout as evil as they come), nids are good(as in not evil or w malice, they're just really, really hungry), and orks are good(they just want a good scrum).
Anyone that has ever read anything about the imperium is either;
(a) fooling themselves into thinking they're good
or
(b) doesnt have a firm grasp of what good is
or
(c) likes how fethed up and hypocritical the Imperium has become
Redemptors literally burn their pilots out, Brazen Drakes were guilty of having the wrong geneseed(albeit unknowingly), and half of the ecclesiastical organizations want Guiliman dead(a literal son of BiggiE. cant get more grimdark than that!).
My Salamanders Astartes and Primaris will continue to serve the Imperium until they no longer can...which will be for all intents and purposes into perpetuity.
I think you missed the point. This is true.
I'm saying once GW get big enough, they'll abandon this and push for a more "Humanity good guys, Chaos bad guys, Aliens now mostly okay" in order to appeal to the larger market. It's not enough to say "IP x is a parody of Fascisim." Todays youth just do not want to even have it anywhere near their hobbies.
Considering they are getting it in their government instead can you blame them?
In which government?
I am sorry but have you even had a real organized fascisct Party near you?
My initial comment was already more political than I should have made it, not going to delve further.
I saw a guy today on FB complain that one of the SM biker(I guess sgt?) is not wearing a helmet. And that he was angry as it set a bad example to his kid whom he is hobbying with and whome he alwyas explained he must wear a helmet when wearing his bcycle.
I kid you not...
I bet he has no idea what his kid does when he's out of LOS.
Also, has the idiot thought about the rest of this hobby & what message it's sending? Look! A game about shooting & stabbing each other, worshiping demons, & genocide. But remember, if you ride a bike you must wear your helmet...
Yeah its no so much that, is that he is literally riding into battle on a motorbike against wierd demons, bloodthirsty aliens that will flay him alive just for gaks and giggles and other that will suck out his bone marrow coz they hungry. The absurdity of him having his helmet on his belt and not on his head as some sort of priority is simply hilarious.
If your kid cant distinguish between reality and make believe nonsense that's on you and not the people making make believe nonsesne.. I mean does he also think GW is promoting purging heretics with the holy fire of the emperor? Lol..
It was juts soo stupid it irked me. If its such a big deal just stick one of the intercessor heads on him lol.. But thats what happens when everyone gets a voice and all of a sudden people want everything to be bubblewrapped in case they stub their toe...
If you -actually- believe everyone getting a voice is a bad thing then put your money where your mouth is and stop voicing your own.
Bonus points for getting offended over someone else taking offense too easily.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/04 06:57:29
I don't think there's any purpose served by continuing this particular thread at this time.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Eldar- 4436 pts
