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So I recently typed this up for our local 40k Discord, but I wanted to hit a wider audience and get some wonderful, useful, Dakkanaut feedback:

Context: 2 games down, articles and blogs devoured, and a number of bat-reps watched and read, have led me to an important conclusion about the state of 9th.

It’s a Bike meta.

If your army has bikes, or fighty bike equivalents that are not Vehicles/Monsters, they hold a clutch position and you should strongly consider running them.

I know some of you are already like, but my Space Marine Captain with Coldstar Suit casting triple smite, then firing double Battle Cannons with a “mortal wounds on 6’s strat” will totally kill bikes.

Yep, there are absolutely ways to kill them. But the purpose of this post is to discuss the meta as a whole and not one factions specific use cases and the counters to said use.

There are a lot of reasons for Bikes rocking the Meta world:

1. They deny secondaries. They don't count for Bring it Down and only one point for Thin Their Ranks. GW's didn't bring over a variant of the ITC Gangbuster. With secondaries being very important, this can be huge. Being able to fill out an army with non-Vehicle vehicles is spicy.

2. They are excellent at claiming both primary and secondaries. They have great movement base, usually an auto advance, and often have a faction-wide, or strat, that allows them to advance and shoot/charge. Being able to get to objectives, shoot them, then charge and fight gives them extra movement onto objectives for contesting and taking primaries. They also have the movement to aid in scoring the recon/line-breaker secondaries, and most bikes can meaningfully contribute to kill secondaries now that they don't take a -1 for move and shoot. Hurricane bolters for kill more/horde, haywire and melta missiles for kill vehicles.

3. They have the durability to stay on that objective once claimed. Most bikes are T5 or 6, with good armor or invul saves. (SM Bikes can get a 3++ for 2CP, on top of the 3+ base), multiple wounds to chew through, and usually come in packs. While small unit sizes do mean that 4 wounds will impact the effectiveness of a unit, vehicles have a very similar mechanic in the wound table system. Likewise needing to do 4W before a change in output is often better than 1W or 2W models being popped, doubly so if they are elites. T5/6, 3/4W, 3+ Armor is a sweet spot right now. Resilient against infantry fire, horde punching, and wasted potential for AT fire.

4. From what I can tell the point increases on them were generally light for the armies that have access to them. Rolling in weapons costs in a lot of cases meant they usually came out better than their armies overall average. I don't think any bikes received a punishment cost increase, as most of them were not over used in 9th (excluding maybe shield-caps on bikes?). More importantly, I don't think they saw cost increases to match the overall changes to the game framework. Blast weapons got a points hike, and vehicles took a hit for no -1 move and shoot, shoot in combat, and usually blast weapons as well. Objective focused missions, Smaller boards, more and better NLOS terrain, objectives not in terrain pieces, and 50/50 rolls for 1st/2nd, all benefit durable, fast, fighty units.

5. Bikes (kinda like swarms) often get forgotten about when GW’s looks at rules interactions. EG Haywire not working against other bikes, IG max Russ shots at vehicles or monsters but not bikes. They run tight packs of dense wounds that ignore blast weapons. Kinda like a mini-horde in 5 models.

(Here’s where Disco ate my essay, and I can’t be to type it all again, but let’s discuss these as well)

6. Limited downsides as compared to being vehicles. No shoot in combat. Bikes are fighty units, no one wants to stay in on them.

7. Limited downsides to not being troops. Not Obsec-Meaningful, but not critical. Dead infantry aren’t obsec either, and you know what bikes kill really well???

What units to consider:

SM: Outriders, or baby bikes if you want AT shooting until Cawl commits more heresy and builds grav-melta bikes in December or somesuch
Custodes Golden Bikes with super melta missles. Maybe splash in a hurricane bolter… maybe not…
Harlies Haywire bikes
GSC Bikes, but they suffer from needing to run in big blast weapon exposed units to make up for their lower durability
IG-Sentinels but they are Vehicles, don’t have the fight capabilities or movement. Hellhounds can do work as well, as they can move fast but they condense more wounds in one place and fight even worse than cents Dont forget "Crush them!"
AdMech Sulphur hounds are going to wreck shop.
Death Guard/Chaos: Nurglings do this job well. While they don't really move, they start exactly where they need to be.
Tau ????????
Nids ???????
Necrons Any idea what their bikes look like these days?
Sisters ???????? I think penitent engines are Vehicles?
Orks I need to crunch the numbers on their bikes again, but I think they may have a real place in the new game framework.

Half of your statements could be replaced with "Primaris/Gravis marines" like profiles

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Half of your statements could be replaced with "Primaris/Gravis marines" like profiles

Well It would have to be impuslor mounted primaris. It takes foot primaris at least till turn 3 with auto bolter or turn 4 to score on an objective cross the table. Not that those are bad choices. Impuslor plus a 5 man primaris squad is now nearly 250 points with a melle weapon. For that price you get 5 bikes. I think it has better overall survival for the bikes. They are easier to hide. Have longer charge threat range. Better firepower even when fully deployed out of the impuslor. Bikes are just solid. Plus they can abuse the space marine banner too...and apoths. Impulsor also explodes for d6....it will lose you the game if it blows up in your lines. I like the Prime bikes a lot.

Overall - the aggressor is also a great unit but Eradicators are just underpointed. That will be fixed pretty quickly. I don't think the edition really favors gravis - you bring the right weapons and gravis just get worked and with their limited range they can just get man handled by...units of bikes honestly.

An Outrider is really just two Intercessors smashed together with T5 duct-tape, automatic Bolt Rifles, and a giant rocket attached for 5 points. That's some good quality wargear for 2.5 points each.

The bigger thrust here is for all the armies that aren't Space Marines. Multi-wound, tough, fast, and responsive are key characteristics more than ever. Units that check more boxes will perform better, and bikes/equivalents hit those boxes really well.

Bluflash wrote:
An Outrider is really just two Intercessors smashed together with T5 duct-tape, automatic Bolt Rifles, and a giant rocket attached for 5 points. That's some good quality wargear for 2.5 points each.

The bigger thrust here is for all the armies that aren't Space Marines. Multi-wound, tough, fast, and responsive are key characteristics more than ever. Units that check more boxes will perform better, and bikes/equivalents hit those boxes really well.

I disagree a little bit, from the perspective of someone not looking at the most OP bike units in the game in marine bikes.

other factions bikers are not just their infantry stapled together. Many factions' bikers are 2W, which run into "the intercessor problem" of very common flat D2 weaponry attaining hyperefficiency against them. Also, many factions bikers do not have the same firepower as 2 of the basic troop: DE bikers don't and GSC bikers don't for example, they have the same firepower as 1 of their infantry.

Bikers as compared to Infantry cannot perform most actions, and cannot benefit from light heavy defensible or breachable cover. They also don't fill compulsory troops slots. and unlike vehicles, they can't shoot in melee combat, and most FLY biker units actually lost the ability to fall back and shoot.

I agree with you that bikes in general seem pretty strong and primaris bikes seem extremely strong. But looking at Windriders, and Jackals, and Reavers, I'm not quite so confident.

Mobility and durability are keys in 9th, so obviously bikes have a place.
That said, the bikes also have some harsh enemies. When they get countered, they get countered hard.

the_scotsman wrote:

Bluflash wrote:
An Outrider is really just two Intercessors smashed together with T5 duct-tape, automatic Bolt Rifles, and a giant rocket attached for 5 points. That's some good quality wargear for 2.5 points each.

The bigger thrust here is for all the armies that aren't Space Marines. Multi-wound, tough, fast, and responsive are key characteristics more than ever. Units that check more boxes will perform better, and bikes/equivalents hit those boxes really well.

I disagree a little bit, from the perspective of someone not looking at the most OP bike units in the game in marine bikes.

other factions bikers are not just their infantry stapled together. Many factions' bikers are 2W, which run into "the intercessor problem" of very common flat D2 weaponry attaining hyperefficiency against them. Also, many factions bikers do not have the same firepower as 2 of the basic troop: DE bikers don't and GSC bikers don't for example, they have the same firepower as 1 of their infantry.

Bikers as compared to Infantry cannot perform most actions, and cannot benefit from light heavy defensible or breachable cover. They also don't fill compulsory troops slots. and unlike vehicles, they can't shoot in melee combat, and most FLY biker units actually lost the ability to fall back and shoot.

I agree with you that bikes in general seem pretty strong and primaris bikes seem extremely strong. But looking at Windriders, and Jackals, and Reavers, I'm not quite so confident.

Custodes bikes are at about the same level of OPness. Harly bikes/ Shinning spears...also really good. Of all of these - the priamris bike is the least durable against heavy firepower. Which means they can't actually be OP compared to these options that have always existed.

I disagree a little bit, from the perspective of someone not looking at the most OP bike units in the game in marine bikes.

other factions bikers are not just their infantry stapled together. Many factions' bikers are 2W, which run into "the intercessor problem" of very common flat D2 weaponry attaining hyperefficiency against them. Also, many factions bikers do not have the same firepower as 2 of the basic troop: DE bikers don't and GSC bikers don't for example, they have the same firepower as 1 of their infantry.

Bikers as compared to Infantry cannot perform most actions, and cannot benefit from light heavy defensible or breachable cover. They also don't fill compulsory troops slots. and unlike vehicles, they can't shoot in melee combat, and most FLY biker units actually lost the ability to fall back and shoot.

I agree with you that bikes in general seem pretty strong and primaris bikes seem extremely strong. But looking at Windriders, and Jackals, and Reavers, I'm not quite so confident.

Ask the other guys in my Discord about the literal tons of salt I poured when we got the points for the Outriders. They're just the easiest, most egregious example of poor points calculation. Custodes and Harlequin bikes are exceptionally good as well.

But that's a fine point on all the 2W T3/4 bikes out there. If the Primaris SM part of the meta sticks, there's gonna be a ton of D2 S4/5 shooting out there.

Troops are usually vital, and I'm not suggesting 2k of just Jackals, but as part of a carefully balanced breakfast. Bikes bring some advantages not immediately apparent on the stat line/points cost.

I'm also aware that many factions don't have access to these stat lines. I'm suggesting that those that do have a very strong unit type.

I've seen a few GT reports coming in today and every winner and top 4 I've seen is rocking bikes/equivalents.

Spoletta wrote:
Mobility and durability are keys in 9th, so obviously bikes have a place.
That said, the bikes also have some harsh enemies. When they get countered, they get countered hard.

Yep - vindicators/demo russ/riptides...130 points and could easily wipe the squad in a single turn. Str 10 loves them.
I really liked the comparison to intercessors that pay a little extra for t5 and mobility. Which is why I suggested I would be replacing intercessors with bikes in the modern game.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Custodes bikes are at about the same level of OPness. Harly bikes/ Shinning spears...also really good. Of all of these - the priamris bike is the least durable against heavy firepower. Which means they can't actually be OP compared to these options that have always existed.

I mean, Skilled Riders for 2CP for a 4++ if they move, and a 3++ if they advance. Also to that that point about weird unintentional rules interactions... Bikes can pop Trans-human Physiology as well because it only excludes Vehicles and Servitors. I'm not saying I'd always spend 4CP to make them unkillable, but I could see it if you needed that objective for control more.

Bluflash wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Custodes bikes are at about the same level of OPness. Harly bikes/ Shinning spears...also really good. Of all of these - the priamris bike is the least durable against heavy firepower. Which means they can't actually be OP compared to these options that have always existed.

I mean, Skilled Riders for 2CP for a 4++ if they move, and a 3++ if they advance. Also to that that point about weird unintentional rules interactions... Bikes can pop Trans-human Physiology as well because it only excludes Vehicles and Servitors. I'm not saying I'd always spend 4CP to make them unkillable, but I could see it if you needed that objective for control more.

Being white scars locked is kinda lame for that stratagem. It still only protects 1 unit of 3...which honestly is a waste for a 2CP strata. They would be better off using regular bikes in a huge squad. Still though - it is only against shooting attacks and qetting charged in your opponents zone is actually pretty common.

Custode bikes are t6 and always have a 4++ and harlie bikes are super fast and can advance and charge and also have a 4++. They did a good job with pricing on the outrider IMO. I wish they were 3 wounds and cost a little less but they are fairly priced compared to their competition IMO.

It's not just bikes, it's any small-unit-count elite units. And it's just a predictable result of the badly balanced secondaries.

In ITC, secondaries were 12 points out of 42. In GW missions, they're 45 out of 90 (the 10 for painting don't count). So secondaries are hugely more important than they were in ITC. But they're also abysmally balanced, and the place they are worst is that there is no obvious set of secondaries to punish a small model count elite army without vehicles and psykers.

So the obvious result of that is that if you're a min-maxer you're naturally going to go for the army archtype that denies your opponent 15-20 points in a 90 point game. Why start at a huge disadvantage by choosing something like a psyker-heavy list that will immediately give up 30 points to an optimized elite-heavy, psyker free army?

I think Bikes give flexibility.

I don't think it takes 3-4 turns to get Intercessors - or Custodes - onto an objective. You can walk to most of the central ones from your deployment in two turns. If your opponent has jumped on them, you can turn 1 charge them.

But you can't very easily redeploy if you suddenly want to go to another objective 24" away on the other side of the board. Whereas bikes can shoot their way across the table (to take/reinforce a point) - especially if they charge things.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Being white scars locked is kinda lame for that stratagem. It still only protects 1 unit of 3...which honestly is a waste for a 2CP strata. They would be better off using regular bikes in a huge squad. Still though - it is only against shooting attacks and qetting charged in your opponents zone is actually pretty common.

Nah, Skilled Riders is a generic SM strat that most people forgot about. WS do have Born in the Saddle for advance, shoot, and charge and Ride Hard, Ride Fast for a nice -1 to hit.

Again though, its not about Outriders being OP, its about bikes a whole being a very strong unit type. SM Bikes and Scout Bikes have value too, at least until we can take 5 Outriders in a squad.

Not sure how much of this really applies to Shining Spears. T4 means they'll go down a lot faster to anti-infantry firepower than Imperial bikes, the 2+/3++ requires a psychic power so you get it on one unit at a time, they're not that aggressively priced, and the Invulnerable save doesn't work in melee so if you really want to use them to run up and grab forward objectives they can easily get charged and eaten.

Can confirm that in AdMech we're looking at including lots of Raiders in our lists these days. Raiders are cheap, fast, can do a free scout move of 12", target characters. 16 pts each for 12", T3, W3, 4+/6++, a gun that is Assault 2, 18" S4 AP0, 6s to Wound do an additional MW and AP-1. A unit of 9 is 144 pts for 27 wounds that are quite fast.

They're used to screen, target objectives T1, tie up stuff in CC and threaten characters early on. We're waiting on first tournaments results with them to see how well they perform, but their only obstacles are their €/$/£ price though.

Sulphurhounds are cool too in my opinion but are more expensive, don't have scout move, and can't target characters. They're great against hordes though, and ignore cover.

Bluflash wrote:

Necrons Any idea what their bikes look like these days?
Sisters ???????? I think penitent engines are Vehicles?
k.

Necron tomb blades looking sweet. Minimal point　increase(now 35 pts with 3+ save), indomitus box overlord(but not reqular overlord in codex if that's even usable or command barge) can buff to bs2 though hotly contested by dda's. Still t5 w2 -1 to hit fast.

Sister walkers are t5 w5 4+ vehicles. No bikes whatsoever

Raiders are going to get such a nerf it won't even be funny...once they've had time to move a lot of those ridiculously pricey kits, of course.

I theorize the first overpowered thing which rises to prominence is also going to get nerfed in short(ish) order. It's the second meta to form that will stick around for a bit.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Raiders are going to get such a nerf it won't even be funny...once they've had time to move a lot of those ridiculously pricey kits, of course.

I agree Raiders are far too cheap, Sulphurhounds look to be at the right spot (67 pts, the sergeant's weapons costing 7 pts) save for the ridiculous cost of the Carbine, and I expect they'll nerf Raiders and it'll make Sulphurhounds more interesting. At least that's my hope since I prefer those

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I theorize the first overpowered thing which rises to prominence is also going to get nerfed in short(ish) order. It's the second meta to form that will stick around for a bit.

I suspect Covid and a lack of tournament data will slow the response significantly. Especially no Warhammer World stuff for the devs to work off of.

They have sales data. All that gw is interested at

Seem like a durable troop meta to me, not a bike meta. Bikes lack obsec.

 slave.entity wrote:
Seem like a durable troop meta to me, not a bike meta. Bikes lack obsec.

Not all bikes

Which bikes have obsec? Is that really enough to call it a bike meta?

Obsec never mattered in 8th ed despite objectives being critical. Here's a hint. For obsec to matter you need to survive. Survive+40k are not terms compatible. Not many obsec units have 3++ and tons of wounds needed to survive. Primaris marines? Dead. Orks? Super dead. Termagaunts? Dead. Sisters of battle? Dead. If you need unit dead it's dead.

I'd say Bikes have been better more often than they've been worse over the years and editions. I started my Combi-Wing DA army with DW/RW back in what was it 5th? When Belial and Sammael made Termies/Bikes into Troops choices. That made for a pretty hefty hammer and anvil.

Many of the minor tweaks have hit on Bikes as well. Angels of Death/Bolter Discipline had me thinking about Bikes a while ago. Outriders just makes me wish I would have been thinking about White Scars a while ago. 2A base, 1 for chainsword, 2 for Devastating Charge, 1 for Angels of Death 6A on a basic trooper on the charge. White Scars Hit and Run is going to be insane.

tneva82 wrote:
Obsec never mattered in 8th ed despite objectives being critical. Here's a hint. For obsec to matter you need to survive. Survive+40k are not terms compatible. Not many obsec units have 3++ and tons of wounds needed to survive. Primaris marines? Dead. Orks? Super dead. Termagaunts? Dead. Sisters of battle? Dead. If you need unit dead it's dead.

Obsec matters more because you now score in your command phase, before you get to shoot. Objective secured units can be efficient at interrupting your enemy's scoring under the right circumstances.

We could see Rhino Rush come back with Impulsor Intercessors,

Maybe turtle up the intercessors with a couple Repulsor variants and some Hellblasters while too many Outriders threaten turn 1 charges - 14 + 3.5 + 7 = 24.5" average before traits and stratagems. Even if they can't get turn 1 charges off, you have to decide between alphastriking the Repulsors/Hellblasters, or the Outriders.

If Outriders get into the Ravenwing, and depending on what happens to the Ravenwing they could also get interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for Obsec I'm hoping for some FOC shenanigans to return and make Non-Troops into Troops (And potentially Troops into Non-Troops) for thematic armies - i.e. Ravening, Saim-Hann, White Scars

yukishiro1 wrote:

So the obvious result of that is that if you're a min-maxer you're naturally going to go for the army archtype that denies your opponent 15-20 points in a 90 point game. Why start at a huge disadvantage by choosing something like a psyker-heavy list that will immediately give up 30 points to an optimized elite-heavy, psyker free army?

It would require the buying of a new army for some people, and not everyone can just buy one. It is strange though to call secondaries secondaries, when there is nothing second in how important the point are, that they generate.