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Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Well, to answer your question on the manticore, I can give you a quick rundown.

*155pts
*Cannon is a demolisher cannon but with 12 more inches in range and it can do indirect fire now. D6 shots, d6 damage, you get the idea.
*Has same statline as a manticore as far as T, Sv, etc.
*Very little options, I don't even think you can give it a heavy flamer now

As far as how it looks competitively, I would say it looks good, but nowhere near a manticore as far as firepower. It's basically an antitank gun that ignores LOS. If for some reason artillery heavy guard turns out to be a really slick army, perhaps a mix of manticores, medusa, and wyverns could be good, covering all the bases. Emperor help you if someone tags you in combat or you can't fire for some reason though. I've got two that I want to try at some point, curious to see how they do.

As for Cadian vs Catachan, I despise d6 shot weapons without a reroll. Cadians have a 16% chance to fire one shot, Catachans have a 3% with the reroll. Yeah, I won't have quite as big swings when you're lucky and roll 4-5 shots with Cadians, but I can rely on my tanks to almost always roll average or higher for shots. Plus Catachans can still provide reroll 1's and make use of other artillery strats, while staying on the move, which is way more powerful than you'd expect with 12" of movement a turn. The Cadian trait, while powerful, really pushes you into gunline and sitting still, not necessarily a good idea in 9th. Not to mention you need to do a wound to the target to proc overlapping fields of fire, and the relic of Cadia only works for one turn. I get why you may prefer it, but I wouldn't take Cadian unless I had a high number of consistent shot weapons. In my experience I'd rather have a more consistent good unit than a unit that spikes between insane and "whelp, I guess I get one shot now". Given the manticores and medusa would ideally be aiming at hard targets with low model count, you can't rely on blast for them, so my only option is rerolls.

Especially for manticores, the ability to reroll a low die and keep a high one can really help them reliably get around 9-10 shots a turn for me. I would never trust a Cadian tank to do that with the consistency Catachans can.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do know all that and had just hoped (sigh) that the medusa would shoot like a bigger basilisk, rather than like a single d6. I would be all over it if it was built in best of 2 shots. Or that it was doing 3+d3 per hit, I would be all over that, as well. But this is sort of not as good as a basilisk, I think with great sadness.

at 155 points for half a demolisher turret weapon's shots ... meh, I see one shot pinging off a marine stormshield and that's it. Will try it anyway... By "not a heavy flamer" do you mean there is a heavy bolter (only) baked into that 155? And thanks for the info. Guess I won't be running to order that book, this week after all.
What a wierd world is ninth that I am looking at something that shoots essentially d6 lascannon shots indirect and saying "meh, it probably can't even kill infantry much at all, they are too tough for its low damage consistancy, I guess I need to use it to kill knights."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/12 09:47:18


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Seeing how every 9th Edi Codex seems to be getting some sort of "get this non-cumulative special rule this battle round" gimmick, what do you reckon is in store for us?

Personally, I'd like something that emphasizes the combined arms mass warfare of the Guard and represents those parts of the military that support your ground forces from beyond the immediate battlefield.
I'm thinking something like:

"Turn 1: Preparatory bombardment: Roll for each enemy unit, get MW on 6+"
"Turn 2: Strategic Air Recon - your VEHICLE units get +1 to hit"
"Turn 3: Tactical Air Recon - your INFANTRY units get +1 to hit"
"Turn 4: Air Strike targets identified - Roll for each enemy unit, get MW on 5+"
"Turn 5: Ammo restock deployed - all RANGED weapons profiles get +1 A on their weapons type"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/12 09:45:02


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Dukeofstuff wrote:
How about this one to reduce thin the ranks? It may only have 3 vehicles, but they are pretty good ones.
Doomhammer.
Doomhammer.
DoomFreakishlyAnotherHammer 1260 points.
Then.
company commander
lord commisar yarrik (he gives doomhammers reroll 1's)
30 regular gaurd infantry with 3 melta and 3 heavy bolter
1 ministerium priests, 1 engenseers, 1 astropath
3 veteran squads with 9 plasma and 3 heavy bolter

So sure, you only have .. uh .. 98 thin the ranks, and 9 vehicle, and 5 psyker. So the enemy is left trying to kill all your officers for his best secondary.

But I bet its a fun as hell list to play (unless the terrain is depressingly like my last GT, and you can't go to the other sid eof the board at all.) DOOMHAMMMERS ... CHARRRRRRGE! *people often forget the doomhammer IS a melee unit. A 26 wound, 9 attack melee unit with a hell of a precharge softening up cannon.

I've put together a sisters/baneblades list related to this. Put in 3 banehammers, 6 sisters squads with 2 storm bolters each, 3imagifiers 2 hospitalers 2 cannoness.

Idea is the bane hammers roll in and slow/pin things down and delete while the sisters move up and turtle on objectives. It's my "hammer my sisters" list. Could be fun

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/13 00:29:23


 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






New Hampshire

How are Wyvern's viewed in the current game climate? I have a couple of wheeled griffions I was want to field because I really like the models and I feel they would work well as Wyverns, but I'm not sure how they will preform. Does their 4D6 shots and reroll wounds make up for their low Strength/AP?

"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 Esmer wrote:
Seeing how every 9th Edi Codex seems to be getting some sort of "get this non-cumulative special rule this battle round" gimmick, what do you reckon is in store for us?

Personally, I'd like something that emphasizes the combined arms mass warfare of the Guard and represents those parts of the military that support your ground forces from beyond the immediate battlefield.
I'm thinking something like:

"Turn 1: Preparatory bombardment: Roll for each enemy unit, get MW on 6+"
"Turn 2: Strategic Air Recon - your VEHICLE units get +1 to hit"
"Turn 3: Tactical Air Recon - your INFANTRY units get +1 to hit"
"Turn 4: Air Strike targets identified - Roll for each enemy unit, get MW on 5+"
"Turn 5: Ammo restock deployed - all RANGED weapons profiles get +1 A on their weapons type"

I guess for such a thing, I'd like to see several styles that tailor to different guard play style. Pure infantry, mech infantry, combined arms, infantry with heavy or super heavy support, etc.

Would take some effort to plot it all out well. I'd have to wonder if we'd get that much attention. As long as it has flexibility for play styles and doesn't channel guard to one particular style to optimize benefits.
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





 RegularGuy wrote:
 Esmer wrote:
Seeing how every 9th Edi Codex seems to be getting some sort of "get this non-cumulative special rule this battle round" gimmick, what do you reckon is in store for us?

Personally, I'd like something that emphasizes the combined arms mass warfare of the Guard and represents those parts of the military that support your ground forces from beyond the immediate battlefield.
I'm thinking something like:

"Turn 1: Preparatory bombardment: Roll for each enemy unit, get MW on 6+"
"Turn 2: Strategic Air Recon - your VEHICLE units get +1 to hit"
"Turn 3: Tactical Air Recon - your INFANTRY units get +1 to hit"
"Turn 4: Air Strike targets identified - Roll for each enemy unit, get MW on 5+"
"Turn 5: Ammo restock deployed - all RANGED weapons profiles get +1 A on their weapons type"

I guess for such a thing, I'd like to see several styles that tailor to different guard play style. Pure infantry, mech infantry, combined arms, infantry with heavy or super heavy support, etc.

Would take some effort to plot it all out well. I'd have to wonder if we'd get that much attention. As long as it has flexibility for play styles and doesn't channel guard to one particular style to optimize benefits.


A similar thing to what the Marines and Necrons have could be done - depending on your particular playstyle (vehicles, infantry, ordonance etc) one phase gets prolonged an additional turn, or gets an extra bonus for that particular turn etc.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

The Superheavy Baneblade 'Eight' - how good are they? Any must takes? Any don't bothers?
I've always dreamed of owning one, and have decided to fulfil my dream this Xmas, so I'm curious.
   
Made in de
Junior Officer with Laspistol






I don't have one but from a purely theoretical point of view: under the current rules especially the CP tax for bringing one they all have a hard time being competetive compared to their weight in Leman Russes/Tank Commanders. The latter also can take orders and better tank aces.

From the eight I have the feeling the best are the Stormlord and Shadowsword, as long as there are good targets for those. The Stormlord has quite some d2 firepower that might come in handy when facing lots of Marines and its extended firing deck is really nice. The Shadowsword has a realistic chance to kill its points in one shooting round IF there is a titanic target, preferably without invulnerability save. And unfortunatly none of the eight will survive more than one round if someone wants them gone.

A note of caution though: what I said might be shaken up with the codex. If for example a brigade gets a superheavy slot or the superheavies get better tank aces/can be ordered, they might geh much more competetive. Or the pendulum swing the other way and the Shadowsword loses its titankilling ability.

~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Note that a stormlord's firepower is easy to buff (at least once) with old grudges, if you are worried about the mix having a valid enemy, you end up doing ok against big things. Not quite shadowswordlike, but it gets a lot of fire to try to go past shields.

Also, wyvern suck in the current meta, buy a 150 point valkyrie instead, which does as well antihorde but ALSO threatens marine and light armor assets while being a transport .. a transport that is 3 wounds more and -1 to be hit. I am not knocking wyvern, just that I seem to hit marine armies or necrons or sisters or other thigns they pretty much can't harm, about 3/4 the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 02:47:48


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Dukeofstuff wrote:
Also, wyvern suck in the current meta, buy a 150 point valkyrie instead, which does as well antihorde but ALSO threatens marine and light armor assets while being a transport .. a transport that is 3 wounds more and -1 to be hit. I am not knocking wyvern, just that I seem to hit marine armies or necrons or sisters or other thigns they pretty much can't harm, about 3/4 the time.


I would think that Wyverns would be decent at clearing an opponent's chaff units that are babysitting their backfield objectives. Things like small Sisters squads, Nurglings, etc. that your other units either can't get LOS to or don't warrant using your precious Manticore shots on. Plus they would do terrible, terrible things to big units of Ork Boyz or Tyranid gaunts.

Of course, now that I think about it maybe it would be more points efficient to just take HWS with mortars for this kind of duty instead. Mortars have been nerfed since their heyday in the first half of 8th, but maybe they are still worth it for some non-LOS shooting? I hope so, I have 2 squads of them on my shelf.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Those mortars can also perform actions to get vp and secure multipke sites. So i believe them a good thing.

I would love to see superheavies gain dr1 on the stats... And a free plus 1 save modifier vs all s5 or less attacks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 16:21:19


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





I find Wyverns to be pretty significantly overpriced for what they bring to the table at the moment. Right now the name of the game seems to be heavy, durable infantry for mid-field objectives, and the Wyvern just won't do very much to T5, 3+ or 2+, 3W units. Every now and then, you'll get a match-up against a light infantry spam list like Tyranids or Orks or even a Guard mirror-match, and it will shine a little more in those situations.

I think that GW jacked the price up so high on them because they were worried about the potential damage increase from having 4x d6 blast weapons, but that hasn't really played out in the game as we're seeing it. Very few lists are taking blobs of 11+ light infantry models.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hey guys, with the changes to Krieg im looking at adding in some more Codex units to my army. I have already picked up x3 Sentinels and im planning on taking them as Scout Sentinels with Lascannons and Hunter Killer Missiles to take advantage of the First Strike Stratagem. Would it be worth it to get more then x3 Sentinels?

19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in de
Junior Officer with Laspistol






I think it comes down to personal taste. My recommendation would be to play a game or two with your current 3 Sentinels, get a feeling if you like playing with them and get some use out of them. If yes: get 3 more.

Regarding your Lascannon+HK Missile Sentinel: I would recommend building those as Armored Sentinels or magnetize the roof (which is not really hard). With the mentioned armament they would tend to hang back and shoot instead of running forward, so the advantages of the Scout Sentinel (+1'' movement, Scout move and the Go Recon Order) would be kind of wasted on those. As armored Sentinels they would Profit from better armor and Deft Manoeuvering.

Scout Sentinels on the other hand seem to be pretty good either with Heavy flamers (because they are fast enough to get those into range ASAP) or Multilasers, to keep them as cheap as possible if you just want to use them as screen and maybe even charge stuff to bind it in CC.

~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Leicester, UK

I've got 3 armoured sentinels painted up, and have ordered 3 more. I have also ordered 6 scout sentinels (and 3 powerlifters! all proxy models).

I am probably not running all of them at once but I would like the option as I think they look really good units. Cheap scouts for a screen and some forward deployment, armoured with las or plas and hk for punch, and mixing in with infantry to hold objectives. Powerlifters as a counter-charge or even first turn charge threat (I know they are not in the codex but they are so cool and better than Bullgryn for my money).

My painting and modeling blog:
PaddyMick's Chopshop

 
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





 gmaleron wrote:
Hey guys, with the changes to Krieg im looking at adding in some more Codex units to my army. I have already picked up x3 Sentinels and im planning on taking them as Scout Sentinels with Lascannons and Hunter Killer Missiles to take advantage of the First Strike Stratagem. Would it be worth it to get more then x3 Sentinels?


Lascannons are wasted on Scout Sentinels, as they are likely not going to survive more than one round of enemy shooting. Maybe a single one will survive to achieve ObSec or Secondaries.
You should take the HK missiles though.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Definitely go armoured with that loadout! But really, just invest in a cheap hobby drill and some magnets and mag them all, would be my advice. I'm a fellow Krieg player with 3 sentinels, on the fenceon whether I need more too
   
Made in de
Junior Officer with Laspistol






Here is a potential way of doing it:
Spoiler:

note that I just glued a small piece of sprue to the Scout Sentinel roll cage to make it interchangeable with the armored roof. That was my first WH40k vehicle ever, so it's really not hard.

~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Leicester, UK

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Here is a potential way of doing it:
Spoiler:

note that I just glued a small piece of sprue to the Scout Sentinel roll cage to make it interchangeable with the armored roof. That was my first WH40k vehicle ever, so it's really not hard.


Nice! I guess if the bits come in the box, use them all. I am loving the paint job also.

I wonder what the new codex will bring for sentinels? My wish would be for a 'Sentinel Commander' so they can form platoons and be issued orders. Maybe a special character in a sentinel (not sure if anything like this existed in previous editions?) oh and bring back jet bikes and landspeeders while they are at it.

My painting and modeling blog:
PaddyMick's Chopshop

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I wish they would dump the current idea of tank commanders and replace with generic vehicle command as an upgrade.
You could still buy an elite version of the leman russ (but it should be expensive) .. only just cause its got its own +BS, doesn't mean it give sout orders.

Maybe limit the upgrade to 1 auxiliary vehicle (can be anything with vehicle in it) .. .cheap, and +1 order can be given to nearby units in 18 inch vox range.
Limit a second upgrade to 1 vehicle of at least 80 points value, cheap, but +2 orders can be given, to vehicels in the 18 inch vox window.
Have a one per side possible "warlord command tank" with various warlord powers. That tank has to have a transport capacity big enough to give up 6 models worth of transport stuff on commo gear, but could not just order a nearby unit, it would also have an aura warlord effect. These could come from a generic list of vehicular warlord traits or they could be faction specific. (For example, the cadian faciton specific warlord trait would allow all leman russ in a 9 inch bubble to reroll turret shot counts, while the tallarn faction specific warlord trait would allow vehicles to fire their hull weaponry instead of making melee attacks in the melee phase, the steel legion warlord trait would allow some sort of snarky character proteciton for steel legion infantry units (but only if equipped with voxes) near a chimera (until the chimera designated in the aura is killed, of course, and then you pick another one next command phase. It would basically mean the troops are coordinating with the chimera dynamically to use it for cover and concealment, dodging in and out of being targetable, whatever, without being crushed.)

It would be cool, potentially, to ahve your command sentinal passing an order out to the tank in front of it -- which makes that sentinal a character, and thus character protcted as under 10 wounds. So suddenly you have a sentinal as a possible commander, who can issue an order to your combat vehicle and follow it across the board. Or stuff.

I dunno, this is just an off the cuff idea I just am having, it lacks refinement but has some merit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/16 22:17:54


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Leicester, UK

Sounds interesting, and I agree something needs to change with Tank Commanders as to me they are pretty lame fluff-wise in the fact you can take them on their own and have them order themselves about.

My painting and modeling blog:
PaddyMick's Chopshop

 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

I have faith that GW will drop an interesting codex for Guard. For its time the 8e codex was interesting and competitive without being unbalanced. Looking forward to them kicking the crutches out and reworking the faction's balance. It really needs it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Studying what happened to krieg's stormtroops, I predict (somewhat morosely) ...
the good.
Cheaper tank commanders
the bad
BS4+ tank commanders that are not core.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/17 11:05:42


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

It would be nice if they really leant into the Ace abilities, perhaps paying points instead of CP.
I would be okay with Tank Commanders being BS4 if all tanks had the option of buying an "Expert Gunner" for BS3, or similar.
Afterall, the best gunners didn't necessarily go the platoon/company commander's tank.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Yeah absolutely, run Aces like SM upgrades - 1cp a pop and take as many as you want.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






New Hampshire

Speaking about what might come in a new codex, is there anything that could be done to make regular Ogryn useable? I want to field my regular ones, but the way they are currently, they're probably one of, if not the, worst unit in the codex

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/17 18:19:47


"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Imperial armor faq is out right off the bat noticed this

Change the first sentence to read:
‘The bearer can be selected to shoot with if it is within Engagement
Range of any enemy units and can make attacks with its Cyclops
demolition charge when doing so. When this unit is selected to
shoot with its Cyclops demolition charge, you must target and
resolve attacks against every other visible unit within range
(friendly and enemy), even if those units are within Engagement
Range of models from a unit from the opposing side.’


I don't remember cyclops being able to "fire" in combat before, so that's pretty cool.


Also DKOK rider captains can give orders to cavalry and infantry now, so your cavalry can fix bayonets now

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in de
Junior Officer with Laspistol






@ Ogryns: note that as long as they can shoot before charging in they are better than Bullgryns against W1 models or models with -1 Damage like the new deathguard

Math:
Ogryn and Bullgryns get the same # of Attacks, same WS, same AP, just the strength and damage differ and damage doesn't matter against said targets. Bullgryns have better strenght, but Ogryns get 3 S5 AP 0 shots each.

which comes down to (assuming one charging Ogryn/Bullgryn with 4 attacks):
T3, W1, 5+ (Guardsmen): Bullgryn 1.852, Ogryn: 2.148
T3, W1, 4+ (Firewariors, Scions): Bullgryn 1.481, Ogryn: 1.685
T3, W1, 3+ (Sisters): Bullgryns: 1.111 Ogryns: 1.222
T4, W2, 3+, -1 damage (new Deathguard): Bullgryns 0.888, Ogryns: 1.222

=> Deathguard is damage done, the others are models killed.

It's a niche use, but it is there. Note that the calculation is on a per model basis while Ogryns only cost ~70% of a Bullgryn, so against said targets the balance is even more in their favor.

Edit: I ignored any thrown Grenades, but as both units can throw them I assume they won't change much about the general point.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/17 18:42:29


~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





 Pyroalchi wrote:

T4, W2, 3+, -1 damage (new Deathguard): Bullgryns 0.888, Ogryns: 1.222

=> Deathguard is damage done, the others are models killed.



Plague Marines are toughness 5, so that will change the maths a little bit. Although I do think Ogryns are currently... okay.
   
 
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