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As to command Chimera, I love the idea of this (to the point I've started making one just for the fun)

Dukeofstuff wrote:
Problem is fragility. Your tanks just pop against deldar for example. Or marine dreadnaught plasma inferno spam. Or an enemy gaurd player first turn. We need some strategem like the tank in front pops smoke and is the only rank they may target till its killled... Openninh the door to defensive buffs and cover stacking a minus to hit. Would be cool.

The big problem I have is how swingy it is from army to army. Some find it very easy to just melt all your armor, others not so much. If the answer isn't tougher armor, there needs to be some other rock/paper/scissors improvement (right now I'm staring at full foot-guard to spread the wounds out as my best option).

Jarms48 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It just needs to be restored to what it was, period.

You keep saying this, I've played Guard since 3rd edition. What exactly do you want restored?

- Legends units? Such as Salamander Scouts and Rough Riders?
- 3.5 doctrines and upgrades for points? Such as Carapace armour?

You keep saying this current codex is terrible, but you don't say why and how to fix it.

Or you could read the post I'd been responding to, having to deal with the Chimera as a Command Vehicle.

I've said for years now how and why to fix it.

Also, the points cost for the Chimera factors in Command Vehicle.

Yea I have heard nothing but good of Scions this edition, that may be the go to.


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https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-maryland-open-and-gladiator-gaming-gt/

What are people's thoughts on really leaning into things that don't need LoS for shooting?

The new Ad-Mech may even make Drukhari look quaint based on a few batreps and such this week, which means Astra Militarum tanks are about to be an even bigger liability.

But that said, I am dying to dust off our Guard...

I was thinking of starting a list with 3x Manticores, 3x Wyverns, and either some Basilisks or Mortan teams (Maybe FW Quad Mortar Batteries?)

3x Hellhounds either do work with their flamers, or waste an opponent's time for relatively low cost.

6x Infantry Squads... because bodies are needed to play the secondaries.

Maybe do it all as Catachan to maximize number of shots?

Just spit-balling, but again, I would love an excuse to try Guard at a tournament.

Sounds good but if you're taking over 6 artillery tanks, won't you run out of hiding places? Also you can clear any objective of anything with that shooting, but can you then take it yourself and what with? I'm no expert, never tried it, but these are the just the first things that spring to mind.

If I was going heavy on artillery, i'd want wave after wave of infantry surging forward in front of it.

Why don't more Guard players take Inquisitor Coteaz or Lord Inquisitor Hector Rex? For the extra 35 - 40 points it seems like a pretty good deal. Hear me out here.

A 60 point Inquisitor most people would take them as a psyker in Ordo Malleus with Warding Incantation. Alternatively a player might additionally pay 1 CP for Arbiter of the Emperor's Will to give them Psychic Mastery and a relic. Where they would then get both Warding Incantation and Castigation. That way they can both buff or be a "double smite" Inquisitor.

Inquisitor Coteaz:
Coteaz is 35 points more and immediately he seems like a good deal for what he offers. For that amount of points you get:
- Ld 10: Which makes his aura better.
- 2+ Save
- the Psyber-eagle: which is basically an assault D6 bolter.
- a Master-crafted Nemesis Daemon Hammer: which is basically a Thunder with AP-3 and no negative 1 to hit.
- Spy Network: Mainly for the ability to force an opponent to spend an extra CP on a stratagem.
- Then he already has the ability to manifest and deny 2 powers. So immediately you could make him a "double smite" Inquisitor.

The other benefits of Coteaz is that you could still give him the Arbiter of the Emperor's Will so he could take Warding Incantation for the buffing, double down on damage with Dominate to force the enemy to shoot themselves with plasma guns, or Mental Interrogation to debuff characters and get some CP back.

Hector Rex:
Rex is 40 points more than a standard Inquisitor, I'd argue he's not as good at fighting than Coteaz but he is tankier and a better psyker. For that extra 40 points you get:
- 5 inch move: probably the only negative he has.
- WS2+
- S4
- W6
- 2+ Save
- a Masterwork Bolt Pistol: Not a huge difference but at least it has an AP of -1.
- the Arias: Which is basically a better powersword that lets him swing at a respectable S5. He can definitely kill MEQ's but Coteaz can kill TEQ's.
- He can Teleport Strike: Which basically negates any disadvantage of that 5 inch move. Meaning you can drop him wherever he's needed and pump out his psychic powers.
- He has a Psychic Hood: So not only can he attempt to deny 2 powers a turn he also gets a +1 at doing so. This can be further buffed if you give him Psychic Mastery.
- The Sanctic Shield: Which gives him a 4++ and a 5+++ against mortal wounds.
- Then he's also a psyker: Compared to Coteaz they can both manifest and deny 2 powers a turn, however, unlike Coteaz Rex knows 2 powers from the Telesthesia discipline. Meaning he can start with both Castigation and Warding Incantation/Dominate. You could then also give him Psychic Mastery to know a 3rd power.

Both Coteaz and Rex are also the best Inquisition units to successfully be able to get off Strategic Excruciation which if used will make their future castings of Castigation, and Dominate (if taken) easier.

I think either of them are pretty big boons for Guard. Rex could deep strike with some Scions or just appear where needed. Coteaz offers some nice utility and is a nice beat stick. What do you think?

I'd certainly have the points for it. Going from six infantry squads to ten would be easy enough.

Watching Ad-Mech on Art of War makes me wonder if any amount of shooting is enough.

Armywide +1 to save, and being in cover is ridiculous, as is how easily it passes out ignoring AP 1/2.

Hordes of their infantry with 4-shots per guy ay 18" for 1cp makes FRFSRF look like kid's stuff. And their chicken-walkers are even more insane.

I have always loved the idea of a guard army being lead by an inquistor, it makes fun from a fluff sense, thinking that an inquisitor can show up any where and take control of whatever guard forces are near-by. That being said, it can be hard to mix in Coteaz or Rex, they are great but you might lose some valuable parts of a guard force as they are quite expensive, I always liked the idea too of a Lord Commisar with plasma pistol and the relic power-sword being used as a beat stick and also a morale boost

So the munitorum field manual 2021 (mark 2) has leaked.

All superheavies got about -10% reduction, -40 points. Will you consider them ?
I don't feel compelled to buy a model, or to field one either. They are expensive to buy, very unweildy to use, difficult to handle on any decently covered table. Too big, too fragile. Impossible to hide from multimeltas and such weapons. On top of that 3 or 6 CP to unlock their detachments. I get that for those who have carefully built, magnetized, painted these beasts of figurines, this is a welcome move. I don't feel any appeal for Baneblade and variants personnally. I don't play apocalypse.


There is one another reduction : ogryns, down to 25 points, from 30. Well that is quite different. They are infantry, can perform actions, capture objectives, move through ruins, get in the fight. Sure, they are still not great, or as punchy and resilient as bullgryns. But for friendly games they will be a lot of fun I guess. I'm definitely going to build a unit from my bullgryns box spare parts.

I'm not sure even at 25pts they're worth it. Doing actions is great but with no access to either type of shield they're not much more resilient than a squad of guardsmen and they're damage output is pitiful.
If you compare them to DG chaos spawn at 23pts they have less wounds, less movement, on average less attacks with less ap and less damage. The only advantage is actions and some pitiful shooting but guard have plenty of cheap units for actions.
They're still overpriced to be honest...

Hmmm...

My three shadowsword list looks more playable with an extra 120 points for screens.

Will I actually go out and buy them? Probably not.

Yes! Go Ogryns! I've just finished painting 9 of the buggers, and got 3 more on the way.


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oh man, they increased death riders by 5 points to 20pts, that sucks.

Command Riders increased by more, a whopping 41%

That's a shame. But then again, they were pretty cheap at 15 each.

Now that the bane blade buffs are in, I dont think it would be super competitive but I like the idea of a banehammer, the flat 3 damage would be nice vs this meta. 3 d6 on the main turret, also its ability can be nice with guard, to keep a deathstar from getting into charge range for a turn.

I really like the idea too of either putting 3 heavy bolter heavy weapons team or 8 command squad plasma gunners inside to take advantage of the firing decks.

I really feel like the sponsons are over costed atm and I wouldnt bring them unless the new astra-militarum codex to reduce the sponsons costs.

It was popular in 8th edition with the super cheap astro-paths to give your baneblade some defensive buffs, but the buffs can still be worthwhile.

Also I think giving him a tank-ace would be great, in particular give him the reroll a heavy dice and jury rigged repairs, its just going to suck if your opponent goes first and you cant buff/repair your tank because it gets alpha striked off the table..

Also final note the crush them stratagem can actually give guard some melee counter.

Man, I'm feeling really bummed out as a Krieg player. It's been a crappy year.

Last year we were trash tier, but at least we had...

- Troops that don't take moral tests from shooting, that were 5pts cheaper than they are now.

- Troops that could spec into being pretty good in CC (priest and banner combo, native 3WS).

- A really wide range of cool units for our models.

- Grenadiers in their awesome little centaurs, zipping about the place.

- Some really cool characters (Karis & Quartermaster)

- D-charges as a viable counter attack tech to buy into

- The Russ Conqueror, which was a fearsome main tank at 24", pretty poor outside of that, but which actually made the battlecannon viable.

And the list goes on. Now? We have engineers, death riders, and a completely naff regimental doctrine - and riders just caught a rough nerf. Command squads went up 40%, that's completely unjustified.

Honestly, I'm on the verge of selling them, and maybe quitting 40k altogether. GW's idea of balance and progress are insane, and their Codex system of power-creep balancing is utter crap.

I don't want to sound greedy, but should you decide to sell them, would you mind sending me a PM?

The Imperial Guard overall situation in beginning of 9th is pretty dire. Forgeworld 40k stuff has been taken over by the main company design studio. While I understand your temptation to abandon ship, you may consider trying some oldhammer. Maybe 2nd or 4th edition. You know, from a time when we had some competent game designers at the head of the GW studio. Not the current clueless yes-men, who's main preoccupation is selling the new overpriced hotness and pay-to-win supplements.

In the meantime, situation may improve. Who knows, maybe the Astra Militarum 9th edition codex will bring some interest, depth and strenght to the army ...
or maybe in 10th edition.

Golden rule of Warhammer 40k is : Never sell your painted army.

This is just typical GW balancing with a hammer.
Imperial Guard aren't a 9th edition codex, it looks bad if they're reaching tops of tournaments, so they get slapped with the nerf bat now.
But the way it seems codex creep is going, when we finally get our codex we'll be deleting the table in a single turn.
Although the effort (or lack there of) they put into the Guardsman kit doesn't exactly fill me with hope, it has to be said.

I wanted to make an imperial guard army based off the krieg troop grenadier choice, but then like 2 weeks later they got rid of them and also the leman russ conqueror variant (the one with ignore ap-1 and the stormbolter that helps you aim its battlecannon)

Also weird that the Multilasers on the Carnodon are still the same price as heavy bolters. And they are the only 15 points multilasers I found, all others are 5 points

Greetings fellow Imperial commanders!

So I thought I would throw out a quick question regarding the future of the mechanized guard.

Specifically, seeing the currently released 9th ed codex(es?), do you think there will be a viable way laid out in the 9th ed codex for IG players to run beautiful tank heavy/superheavy lists?

I will admit, for as much as the humble guardsman deserves his place of honor, my heart always belongs to the tanks.

So what say you, will running gobs of tanks (or perhaps just a few superheavy pieces of glorious metal,) become reasonably competitve in our future?

I dont think vehicle heavy lists will be viable. There are so many cheap anti vehicle guns available.

I hear rumors of a drop in secondary point bleeds for Chimeras, which would help. Still, against marines chimeras basically do nothing these days, and they die instantly to a lot of stuff (wishing for an autocannon turret). Making guard vehicles cheaper in points by a bit or giving some more durability might boost the tread head game.

One big problem is the marine resilience going up to 11... Even autocannons become simply useless against in cover marines who ignore enough ap to save on 2plus agai st expensive ap1 stuff. Autocannon has more a role vs drukari right now.. A threat to their ships t7 and enough range to matter. But its still no lascan.

 RegularGuy wrote:
I hear rumors of a drop in secondary point bleeds for Chimeras, which would help. Still, against marines chimeras basically do nothing these days, and they die instantly to a lot of stuff (wishing for an autocannon turret). Making guard vehicles cheaper in points by a bit or giving some more durability might boost the tread head game.

The new changes to Thin their Ranks, now No Prisoners basically means any vehicles 10 wounds or more won't double dip 2 secondaries now. That means Chimeras are only worth 1 VP with Bring it Down, though you still have to account for what the Chimera is transporting.

Leman Russes, Hellhounds, etc only give up 2 VP now instead of the possible 3. However Tank Commanders will still give up Assassinate and Bring it Down, so they're unchanged.

Fielding a Chimera + Leman Russ army seems a better bet now, now that "bring it down" has been reduced, and opponent cannot double score on "thin their ranks". But to align lots of chimeras is still questionable, because the squads inside are quite weak for most of them. I can see the usefulness of having, say 3 chimeras, loaded with veteran squads, with plasma guns or such. However, they are not objective secured. But basic infantry squads, unequipped ? Color me unimpressed. On the Leman Russ side, well I think many opponents will be quite happy to get so much use from their underpriced anti-tank weapons (multi-meltas, dark lances etc...). But after all, heavy armor overload is still a thing. An opponent a bit weak on anti-tank will find armoured company guard oppressing. So why not...


I suggest you to check out the last battle report from Mordian Glory on Youtube.
There you can see how a fully decked-out spearhead guard fights against a quite weak genestealer cult army.

When running mechanized guard people usually run spotter detail and gunnery experts, alternatively tho, packing a ton of heavy flamers, atleast one in the hull and double heavy flamer chimeras, one could consider running pyromaniacs instead of spotter details possibly. I mean if you're packing enough heavy flamers it could be worthwhile.

Crazy idea, but entire vehicle lists could be interesting now. Take a spearhead with 2 tank commanders in demolishers and 9 actual demolishers. That's 15 Bring it Down points sure, but it's not worth anything else. No-one is going to take Assassinate on 2 characters.

That means you just need to prevent the enemy from scoring board focused secondaries. Take the typical gunnery experts and spotter detail combo. Use the standard demolishers to screen the tank commanders. If anyone charges you just fallback with that tank and hit them with the others. Could work.

Another crazy idea is Scions and Chimeras, but as an AM list not an MT one. Take all the Scions as minimum 5 man squads with 2 plasma or melta, take 3 Primes, and 3 Scion Command Squads. Take Chimeras for every unit, with 2 heavy flamers and track guards. That's 12 vehicles to just flood the board first turn and second turn you drop the Scions. Sure you don't have Lions, but that's still a ton of plasma or melta hitting on 3+ with orders.

Jarms48 wrote:
Crazy idea, but entire vehicle lists could be interesting now. Take a spearhead with 2 tank commanders in demolishers and 9 actual demolishers. That's 15 Bring it Down points sure, but it's not worth anything else. No-one is going to take Assassinate on 2 characters.

That means you just need to prevent the enemy from scoring board focused secondaries. Take the typical gunnery experts and spotter detail combo. Use the standard demolishers to screen the tank commanders. If anyone charges you just fallback with that tank and hit them with the others. Could work.

Another crazy idea is Scions and Chimeras, but as an AM list not an MT one. Take all the Scions as minimum 5 man squads with 2 plasma or melta, take 3 Primes, and 3 Scion Command Squads. Take Chimeras for every unit, with 2 heavy flamers and track guards. That's 12 vehicles to just flood the board first turn and second turn you drop the Scions. Sure you don't have Lions, but that's still a ton of plasma or melta hitting on 3+ with orders.

What do you think the best regiment would be if you were running an all vehicles list?