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Arcanis161 wrote:

 DoctorDanny wrote:
Arc, I'd think about not taking full payload (at least not twice) and taking a Steel Commander instead to issue more tank orders. The ability to reroll 1s is a great asset on demolishers.

I'm interested in how the army plays next saturday. The huge blob of conscripts looks like a big gamble to be honest. I'd love to hear how effective they were. I've reached a point where I use my infantry for backfield objective holding only. I sometimes even forgo shooting with them as the lasguns are completely irrelevant against most competetive lists.

All three russes I was wanting to take would be Tank Commanders, one being Pask, so I'm not seeing the need for the extra orders?

Unless you think I should downgrade one and/or scrounge some points to turn one of the Manticores into a regular Demolisher Russ.

Sorry, you're right. I think I assumed more leman russes.

Jarms48 wrote:

Maxzero wrote:

Come October it will be 5 years since our last codex.

Over roughly the same time period (July 2017) Space Marines have had THREE Codexes.

It won't be the longest since we had a codex. From memory the gap between our 3.5 edition and 5th edition codex was 6 years.

I'm just hoping our next codex is good. I've seen some people on reddit say they've spoken to playtesters. Who apparently think the next codex is very vehicle focused and underwhelming. That was back in November. So hopefully we've gotten better since then.

Nice to see some info on our upcoming V9 codex, it's not the best news though. Being forced to play a vehicle heavy army in a ruleset where vehicles are weak, leads to this, so no surprise. I am prepared to be underwhelmed, given that Robin Cruddace is still heading the rules studio. He was the dude responsible for driving the Guard into an army heavily reliant on tanks in V5 and forward. Remember "leafblower lists" chimera spam and so on... If you compare recent IG codexes to what we had in V3.5, this is obvious. The V3.5 codex (from Andy Champers and Pete Haines) gave us lot of flavor. It gave us an army in which the infantry component was interesting and the very basis of list construction.

By the way, the gap between V3.5 and V5 IG codexes was not horrible (september 2003 - may 2009) : 5 years and 8 months, seems long now, but by the publishing rate of the era, it was barely above average.
Then we had the V6 codex (april 2014) which gap from previous was 4 years and 11 months, in a time when things get significatively accelerated. It really felt long, and the book appeared only at the very end of V6. And on top of that, we had no codex in the crazy power-creep era that was 7th edition. Astra Militarum felt outclassed not long after this V6 codex dropped. We are back in this situation now.

Jarms48 wrote:
...So hopefully...

Hope is the first step etc.

Considering IG "Heavy" vehicles cost a fraction of what other faction "Heavy" vehicles cost, I don't really see GW going big on making the LR a major meta shaker. I do wonder if they will follow their trend and try and hyper focus on small infantry combat, and buff things like Chimeras, HWTs, and SWS. It would be cool to suddenly see people rushing to use Chimera's to flood the board with 4 squads per truck. Just give them the ability to field a whole platoon per Chimera, and give it a Combat Deployment rule. Hey presto, front line in a jiffy. Now eat a 100 gallons of S3 laser death you stupid xenos.

Related to Chimeras, I'm a bit out of touch with both transports and 9th edition, but...

In a 'Militarum Tempestus' detachment, I can't take Chimeras, because they don't have the militarum tempestus keyword.

I can take Chimeras in my other detachment.

Can my Militarum Tempestus go in then Chimera from the other detachment? Can they deploy inside it or go in reserves with it, or no?

I would say yes to the three answers.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering IG "Heavy" vehicles cost a fraction of what other faction "Heavy" vehicles cost, I don't really see GW going big on making the LR a major meta shaker.

The new meta shakers will be the upcoming Kasrkins and whatever the new tank will be called. The Kasrkins will basically be our Skitarii Rangers/Vanguards. Probably start off as 8 points, Scion statlines and equipment, perhaps no aerial drop and can benefit from <Regiment> doctrines.

As for the new tank, it'll be heavily pushed in my opinion. GW will make it better than the Russ, Malcador, Macharius, and Baneblade.

 ph34r wrote:
Related to Chimeras, I'm a bit out of touch with both transports and 9th edition, but...

In a 'Militarum Tempestus' detachment, I can't take Chimeras, because they don't have the militarum tempestus keyword.

I can take Chimeras in my other detachment.

Can my Militarum Tempestus go in then Chimera from the other detachment? Can they deploy inside it or go in reserves with it, or no?

Yep scions have the right keywords to go in any chimera: ASTRA MILITARUM INFANTRY

Jarms48 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering IG "Heavy" vehicles cost a fraction of what other faction "Heavy" vehicles cost, I don't really see GW going big on making the LR a major meta shaker.

The new meta shakers will be the upcoming Kasrkins and whatever the new tank will be called. The Kasrkins will basically be our Skitarii Rangers/Vanguards. Probably start off as 8 points, Scion statlines and equipment, perhaps no aerial drop and can benefit from <Regiment> doctrines.

As for the new tank, it'll be heavily pushed in my opinion. GW will make it better than the Russ, Malcador, Macharius, and Baneblade.

So what you're saying is, there will be good deals on eBay for the Russ, Malcador, macharius, and Baneblade variants?

All joking aside, at this point, I'm up for anything to bring us at least to the middle of the pack.

Hey everyone! Not an IG player here (though I do have a small force of Guardsmen as a PDF for narrative and fluff reasons) but I wanted to ask a few questions!

I happen to be playing against someone soon (somewhat of a newer player, only a few games under their belt) bringing a semi-competitive list to help him learn the newer War Zone Nachmund missions more and it looks from his list that he is bringing 2 FP Manticores of course and a psyker with a big squad of Bullgryn to get psychic barrier off too.

I just wanted to make absolutely certain that I am understanding everything correctly since I haven't played against Guard since like pre-Psychic Awakening 8th. Even though the Tank Ace strat can only be used once per battle, he is allowed to bring 2 Full Payload Manticores because of something I probably don't fully understand correct? Like an extra warlord trait strat or something?

Also, am I correct in understanding that the Bullgryns will have an effective 1+/3++ save (I believe they will have a mix of shields) if Psychic Barrier goes off?

Please just let me know! He is still a newer player so I want to make sure that he's running the list correctly. Supposedly he took this list to a local tourney and did okay with it, so I am sure it's fine, but just in case something got missed I want to make sure we are playing correctly! Thanks!

Hello

I just wanted to make absolutely certain that I am understanding everything correctly since I haven't played against Guard since like pre-Psychic Awakening 8th. Even though the Tank Ace strat can only be used once per battle, he is allowed to bring 2 Full Payload Manticores because of something I probably don't fully understand correct? Like an extra warlord trait strat or something?

It is in fact the opposite of an extra warlord trait. One tank ace ability can be obtained by forgoing the warlord trait. Also, a second tank ace ability can be obtained thanks to the tank ace 1 CP stratagem. So it is possible to use either one of these possibilities, or both, to have 1 or 2 tank aces.

Then there is psychic barrier. As of now, it can improve the invulnerable saves by +1, as well as giving equivalent 1+ armour saves to some models (like bullgryns). So your partner is correct here as well. The boost to invulnerable saves will most probably be removed in the V9 Astra Militarum codex, because GW does not want to have better than 4++ invulerable saves running around. But is is still valid as of now.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Hello

I just wanted to make absolutely certain that I am understanding everything correctly since I haven't played against Guard since like pre-Psychic Awakening 8th. Even though the Tank Ace strat can only be used once per battle, he is allowed to bring 2 Full Payload Manticores because of something I probably don't fully understand correct? Like an extra warlord trait strat or something?

It is in fact the opposite of an extra warlord trait. One tank ace ability can be obtained by forgoing the warlord trait. Also, a second tank ace ability can be obtained thanks to the tank ace 1 CP stratagem. So it is possible to use either one of these possibilities, or both, to have 1 or 2 tank aces.

Then there is psychic barrier. As of now, it can improve the invulnerable saves by +1, as well as giving equivalent 1+ armour saves to some models (like bullgryns). So your partner is correct here as well. The boost to invulnerable saves will most probably be removed in the V9 Astra Militarum codex, because GW does not want to have better than 4++ invulerable saves running around. But is is still valid as of now.

Thank you so much for the response! I checked with him too in order to make sure, but glad to have an extra confirmation of it!

I expect the 3++ to go away too, but I expect them to get something to make up for it. I also expect certain Core interactions to be different, like Tank Commanders only able to give orders to other Core Leman Russ/vehicles and not themselves, while normal commanders can only give orders to Core infantry. I bet many things wil get some kind of glow-up though!

At this point my biggest concern is just all the ignroing LoS stuff being so devastating (mostly referring to Tau and some of the Eldar stuff). I hope that as much as its fluffy to just have Guard Artillery pounding their opponent, GW do their best to reign things in a bit, otherwise the game is just going to devolve into more "bring ignore LoS or else" play. To some degree it is already there. I was watching some of the tier lists from Art of War a few days ago and it was discussed how unhealthy it is for all the top tier factions to be able to interact with lower tier armies while those armies can barely interact with them. Certain Battle Focus strats, ignoring LoS shooting, all of that stuff just results in some real "negative play experiences." I mainly play Sisters and, while the Exorcist really should just be ignoring LoS for free, I am happy we have to pay CP to do it. Feels like there is a balance on it (though not gonna lie 2CP a turn is a steep price to pay most games, wish it just went to 1CP). In an interesting way though, 8th edition Guard may actually be one of the answers thanks to all of their ignore LoS shooting, at least for now! Watch out Tau and Eldar, the Artillery is gonna make you cry (until the Hammerhead survives and hits back of course).

You either need everyone to have it, or have the armies that can bring it paying such a premium that it is barely worth bringing more than one asset. Or there needs to be some compromise in the middle, which GW just aren't too good at.

I might be wrong, but I think you seriously overestimate the effect of Guard artillery there...

 Pyroalchi wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think you seriously overestimate the effect of Guard artillery there...

I just played the IG guy I spoke about above and as an army with very little ignores LoS I watched my entire front line go down to Catachan FP Manticores. A transport and 2 Squads were just decimated despite ignoring or reducing all the AP coming at them. I knew the Demolisher Cannons on the TCs would be rough, and I took both out relatively quickly before they did too much damage, but the Manticores probably would have won him the game had Vahl not tanked about 10 shots from one of them herself and my opponent been a bit more aware of certain consolidation shenanigans that I was able to pull to score some objectives and tie the rest of his vehicles up. The Wyvern, while not brutal, was still just rough as I was consistently eating about 17-20 shots a turn from it. Granted, it was an incredibly friendly game, and we both allowed each other to do certain things out of phase and all the other things that normally happen when you are just trying to talk somebody through their 6th or 7th 2k point game (as I was doing for him). Therefore, it may have not been nearly as bad had I not helped him on certain target priority and all that. Still though, just the consistent weight of dice for 2-3 turns straight was difficult when there was very little I could do other than "roll well."

I am not saying I was a true tactical genius in that game, I definitely made some key mistakes, and so did my opponent, and the game was won or lost on a few important saves and some consolidation moves tying up the tanks by turn 3 on, but those first 2 turns were still nightmarish. I am not saying Guard is OP by a long shot, and I know to have a real chance you have to bring every strong combo in your codex, but knowing that your artillery is almost nothing compared to Tau and Eldar indirect fire right now is just incredibly scary. If I had gone against a heavily ignore LoS focused Tau army instead I may have been tabled by turn 2 despite my best efforts to hide and bring plenty of bodies that ignore most of the AP coming at me. That's really my point here, if your ignore LoS shooting is/can be rough but not game breaking, then the top tier armies that have it are primarily top tier because theirs IS.

Maybe I am overestimating Guard artillery as you say, but I think I am on the right track in saying that its unhealthy for the overall game to be so focused on ignores LoS shooting, especially when all the terrain rules GW has put into place exist to prevent too much shooting overkill in the early turns or a devastating turn 1 alpha strike. I know Custodes can weather it mainly because of their durability and their strats, but Tau are still right there with them, and Eldar/Harlequins are headed up there too. The last thing I want is the game to just devolve into rock-paper-scissors, even on the more casual level. I am happy Tau are getting their time in the sun again, and glad to see Eldar back up there (soon to be top tier again I'm sure) and also that Custodes are back from being low A tier to S tier, but the state of the game at the highest level just resembles a time about 6-7 years ago, in the dark ages at the end of 7th where unless you had a D weapon, you were probably doomed. Many on here probably remember that time well.

Someone call for an earthshaker?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Someone call for an earthshaker?

As an opponent I would take an Earthshaker Cannon or two over Full Payload Manticores anyday!

What about a pair of full payload earthshaker basilisks ?

Just saw the Nids codex leak. Let's get ahead of the curve:

What do we have that can reliably take out 60+ flying t3 w1 obsec infantry? Volume fire of Lasguns? (Infantry Squad lasguns, even whiteshields would be only hitting on 6's).

 Ravajaxe wrote:
What about a pair of full payload earthshaker basilisks ?

Since each one is only getting d6 shots (rolling 2 taking the highest of course and then rerolling because of Catachan if we are using the army I just faced) I would MUCH rather have 2d6 FP shots each turn compared to 4d6! Despite the difference in AP, half as many shots is still half as many shots!

Arcanis161 wrote:
Just saw the Nids codex leak. Let's get ahead of the curve:

What do we have that can reliably take out 60+ flying t3 w1 obsec infantry?

...lay down and cry?

IIRC, that's like the 1 niche Ogryns are good for. Shooting then charging such light targets. Then again, S5 AP1 will be quite effective against them.
Massed Infantry Squad lasguns is probably your best bet.

Arcanis161 wrote:
Just saw the Nids codex leak. Let's get ahead of the curve:

What do we have that can reliably take out 60+ flying t3 w1 obsec infantry? Volume fire of Lasguns? (Infantry Squad lasguns, even whiteshields would be only hitting on 6's).

1) Don't overexpose your infantry squads, so that they are still alive to shoot the gargoyles.
2 ) Mortar squads and Wyverns : no LOS strength 4 blasts will tear through them quite reliably.
They are only T:3 6+ save hordes. I would rather be worried by all the walking monsters that just got a hefty boost, including toughness 8 and/or 2+ saves.

I could be wrong, but if the gargoyles have the fly keyword then we can only charge them with valkyries right?

To take out 60+ flying t3 beasties I suppose you'd be looking for blast weapons with a high rate of fire and T4+. So yeah, mortars, wyverns and maybe flamer special weapon squads for the autohits.

 DoctorDanny wrote:
I could be wrong, but if the gargoyles have the fly keyword then we can only charge them with valkyries right?

To take out 60+ flying t3 beasties I suppose you'd be looking for blast weapons with a high rate of fire and T4+. So yeah, mortars, wyverns and maybe flamer special weapon squads for the autohits.

They can be charged by anything; it's AIRCRAFT that can only be charged by models with FLY.

As for what takes them out, the blast weapons and flamers are probably your best bet, but I think a LR Punisher Tank Commander could do some work through sheer rate of fire.

Arcanis161 wrote:
Just saw the Nids codex leak. Let's get ahead of the curve:

What do we have that can reliably take out 60+ flying t3 w1 obsec infantry? Volume fire of Lasguns? (Infantry Squad lasguns, even whiteshields would be only hitting on 6's).

Why would you only hit on 6s?

Armageddon pattern Medusa?

I've just picked up an old forgeworld Vanaheim pattern Medusa conversion kit for a song from a rather eclectic vendor (tons of old battlefleet ships and all sorts of old stuff).

Built it up and plan to proxy as a Armageddon Medusa.

Anyone had experience with this unit? Tips, suggestions? I'm planning to field it along side my 2 full payload manticores.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
Just saw the Nids codex leak. Let's get ahead of the curve:

What do we have that can reliably take out 60+ flying t3 w1 obsec infantry? Volume fire of Lasguns? (Infantry Squad lasguns, even whiteshields would be only hitting on 6's).

Why would you only hit on 6s?

Haven't seen a unit with fly in my games in ages. Isn't there a to-hit penalty from shooting attacks?

EDIT: D'oh, that's Aircraft. I did say I haven't seen a unit with fly in my games in ages. So that clears that up.

Well, maybe Conscripts could do some work against Gargoyles. Only issue would be getting them in range without getting charged and shredded.

However, Tyranids do have a monster (Malenthrope iirc) with an aura of -1 to-be-hit, and I hear it's pretty good and looking to be a popular choice in the new codex.
So -1 to hit isn't a terrible assumption to make.

If (a very very big if) they should decide to upgrade the Multilaser to having more shots, while increasing the price so that it is the same as HB and HF (I don't know if heavy 5 or heavy 6 would be fairer), the advent of massive numbers of T3 bodies would at least give it a niche use. I heard no rumor about it, I just think it would make sense to bring it in line with the other turret options on the Chimera and "6 S6 D1 no AP shots" sounds more or less fair to me compared to the HBs "3 S5, D1, AP-1 shots".
It would also make the Multilaser Options on the Carnodon suddenly kind of sensible... to handle things like Gargoyles and the like.

on that note: one of the few targets where the Chimeras Lasgun Array might bring down a couple.

Warlord Trait
OLD GRUDGES

After deployment, but before the first battle round begins, choose a unit in your opponent’s army. You can re-roll failed wound rolls for ASTRA MILITARUM units from your army that target the unit you chose whilst they are within 6" of your Warlord.

Does the enemy unit have to be within 6 of the warlord or does the Astra Miltarum unit have to be within 6 to get the re-rolls?

The AM unit has to be within 6" of the warlord to get the rerolls.