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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd love HH to go all plastic, but honestly I'd just be satisfied with plastic Mk.II Marines.

Marks 5 and 6 are the only marks that matter.

Beakies are overrated. Get over it, losers.

Quasistellar wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I would actually rate the Assault version the best now I think. That’s a good number of shots at decent range with really nice AP for cracking open heavier infantry.

I'm not so sure about that. If you overcharge for that sweet 2D, that's 3 chances to kill yourself with each dude. It's the same reason plasma Kataphron Destroyers are always "almost" good but never actually good--with so many shots, overcharging is literally suicide for a pretty expensive model, and the real value is in overcharging.

Even with 3 shots rerolls nullify that a lot. 1/36 odds 3 time. Not that scary

First of all beanies are awesome. Second chaos beakies need to happen.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Beakies are overrated. Get over it, losers.

They are classic. And classic enough that GW remade Beakies for Primaris. I wish they would make more of them.

As for making a whole kit devoted to Beakies, they stand a much bigger chance than any other classic armor Mk. Mk II looks too much like Mk III.

Honestly, the two Marks I even care about already exist, so I don't really care either way. But I would like Mk VI more than anything else.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Beakies are overrated. Get over it, losers.

They are classic. And classic enough that GW remade Beakies for Primaris. I wish they would make more of them.

As for making a whole kit devoted to Beakies, they stand a much bigger chance than any other classic armor Mk. Mk II looks too much like Mk III.

Honestly, the two Marks I even care about already exist, so I don't really care either way. But I would like Mk VI more than anything else.

The fact Raven Guard upgrade sprue comes with an entire one beakie is almost as painful as Iron Hands sprue coming with just two iron hands or the Salmanders one coming with just one flamer.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
3 shot tau plasma gun?
Why yes, water down the faction identity more.

Space Marines manage to have a distinct identity from SOBs and they share the same bloody weapons.
if a factions entire identity is based around a single gun, that faction should proably be squatted.

The faction identity of sm got flanderized was the meaning.

Because atm it went from Generalist shocktroops to everything you have but +1 if we are talking primaris.

except that guns been around for ages, no one took it because it sucked, so they made the exact same buff to it they did with auto bolt rifles,
as for faction identity, yes the marines identity was elite resiliant shock troopers. way I see it they now feel like that

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
3 shot tau plasma gun?
Why yes, water down the faction identity more.

Space Marines manage to have a distinct identity from SOBs and they share the same bloody weapons.
if a factions entire identity is based around a single gun, that faction should proably be squatted.

<glances at Dark Angels>

 Albertorius wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
3 shot tau plasma gun?
Why yes, water down the faction identity more.

Space Marines manage to have a distinct identity from SOBs and they share the same bloody weapons.
if a factions entire identity is based around a single gun, that faction should proably be squatted.

<glances at Dark Angels>

No, no, they have hoods and memes about being chaos. Never take that away from them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Except as the Tactical Marines suffer casualties, their performance drops off faster than the Intercessors.

Dont know how one could come to that conclusion but it is obviously exactly the other way round...
The Tacticals will remove the best shooter (=HB equipped Marine) last, so their performance actually drops slower!

This will be even more prominent on Eradicators and Hellblaster in comparison to Devastators (or Veterans).
A unit of 10 Devastators with 4 Multimeltas can fire 8 Melta shots at 24", while 3 units of 3 Eradicators can initially fire 9 Melta shots at 24".
The moment the Eradicators take casualties, they instantly drop in shots and with 6 casualties they only got 3 Melta shoots left, which is 33% of what they initially had
The moment the Devastators take casualties nothing really happens and even with 6 casualties they are still at 100% of their melta output.

I am really eager to see if GW puts the Plasmacannon at D2 base / D3 overcharged, like they did with the Hellblasters "heavy" Plasmawhateveritiscalled.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

BrianDavion wrote:
Space Marines manage to have a distinct identity from SOBs and they share the same bloody weapons.

The SM have access to the entire SoB arsenal, plus many many many more weapons…

highwind01 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

Right, classic marines are going to be more expensive and therefore there will be less of them. Hellblasters, however, are primaris, not classic marines. They'll be the same price, but with better guns. You can get just as many hellblasters as before, but now they'll be better. This is a straight buff, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's an improvement to a unit that hasn't been seeing a lot of use, not some grand balancing plan.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

highwind01 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

Right, classic marines are going to be more expensive and therefore there will be less of them. Hellblasters, however, are primaris, not classic marines. They'll be the same price, but with better guns. You can get just as many hellblasters as before, but now they'll be better. This is a straight buff, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's an improvement to a unit that hasn't been seeing a lot of use, not some grand balancing plan.

You ASSUME they will be same price.

Have we seen codex release ever without point changes?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

I mean not really? No one was taking Hellblasters anymore. They at least have a more interesting variety now. If heavy is D3 it is still single shot.

Yes, really. I was commenting on the fact that we are continuing to see improvements in the amount of damage currently existing weapons can put out, not on whether or not Hellblasters are considered "good" compared to the myriad of strong options already available to loyalists.

And, as always, it needs to be said: Just because something isn't considered good compared to the other units in the strongest, most bloated codex in the game, doesn't mean it wouldn't be considered good in any other faction. AP-4 is a big deal, it renders any 3+ save moot without an invul, and when in the respective doctrine for the corresponding weapon it goes up to AP-5, which does the same to anything with a 2+ save lacking an invul. In any other codex that would be considered good, the fact that it's considered "meh" for loyalists speaks volumes about how many good options they have.

It definitely isn't meh for loyalists. That gun is a primaris murderer now and it likely rises to the level of Eradicators over half range when shooting vehicles. The problem being when they shoot they'll kill 3/5 of their own unit most of the time, which means captain and additional cost (and rolling one model at a time).

I can see your wheels spinning about them negating your Fellblade's 2+. In the current deployment setup you're going to need cultists (singular spawn are also great for this). You have to have enough drops to see where such units will be getting placed to maximize the advantage of your ranges.

For other units - don't leave home without Supplication.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


You ASSUME they will be same price.

Have we seen codex release ever without point changes?

Given a PL of 8 I doubt they'll change much. Anything extreme would take them too far into glass cannon land.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

I mean not really? No one was taking Hellblasters anymore. They at least have a more interesting variety now. If heavy is D3 it is still single shot.

Yes, really. I was commenting on the fact that we are continuing to see improvements in the amount of damage currently existing weapons can put out, not on whether or not Hellblasters are considered "good" compared to the myriad of strong options already available to loyalists.

And, as always, it needs to be said: Just because something isn't considered good compared to the other units in the strongest, most bloated codex in the game, doesn't mean it wouldn't be considered good in any other faction. AP-4 is a big deal, it renders any 3+ save moot without an invul, and when in the respective doctrine for the corresponding weapon it goes up to AP-5, which does the same to anything with a 2+ save lacking an invul. In any other codex that would be considered good, the fact that it's considered "meh" for loyalists speaks volumes about how many good options they have.

It definitely isn't meh for loyalists. That gun is a primaris murderer now and it likely rises to the level of Eradicators over half range when shooting vehicles. The problem being when they shoot they'll kill 3/5 of their own unit most of the time, which means captain and additional cost (and rolling one model at a time).

I can see your wheels spinning about them negating your Fellblade's 2+. In the current deployment setup you're going to need cultists (singular spawn are also great for this). You have to have enough drops to see where such units will be getting placed to maximize the advantage of your ranges.

For other units - don't leave home without Supplication.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


You ASSUME they will be same price.

Have we seen codex release ever without point changes?

Given a PL of 8 I doubt they'll change much. Anything extreme would take them too far into glass cannon land.

eh, technically the powerlevel could change too. Theoretically the most recent PL changes are only for units as they exist now, after all.

I will say that hellblasters getting this boost makes WS and Impulsors even better(assuming impulsors keep their disembark and shoot rules) that's what...15 S7 Ap-4 D2 plasma shots with a 45+D6 inch range with no risk and no penalty. Even if you don't super charge that's a ridiculous amount of S6 AP-4 shots.

You could also drop the impulsor and just take 30 of them for 90 30+D6 inch range S7 AP-4 2 damage shots for less than a thousand points. After characters and troops you'd still have 500ish points left to kill off whatever happened to survive that first hail of 115 wounds against Intercessor equivalent targets or 92 wounds against rhino equivalent targets.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

highwind01 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

Right, classic marines are going to be more expensive and therefore there will be less of them. Hellblasters, however, are primaris, not classic marines. They'll be the same price, but with better guns. You can get just as many hellblasters as before, but now they'll be better. This is a straight buff, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's an improvement to a unit that hasn't been seeing a lot of use, not some grand balancing plan.

Have you EVER seen anyone take hellblasters with anything BUT the rapid fire guns? this is an attempt to make the hellblasters other weapons options worth while. the gun everyone uses anyway isn't being buffed. this isn't an upgrade so much as a sidegrade

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

highwind01 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

Right, classic marines are going to be more expensive and therefore there will be less of them. Hellblasters, however, are primaris, not classic marines. They'll be the same price, but with better guns. You can get just as many hellblasters as before, but now they'll be better. This is a straight buff, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's an improvement to a unit that hasn't been seeing a lot of use, not some grand balancing plan.

Have you EVER seen anyone take hellblasters with anything BUT the rapid fire guns? this is an attempt to make the hellblasters other weapons options worth while. the gun everyone uses anyway isn't being buffed. this isn't an upgrade so much as a sidegrade

Tell that to the first person that eats 90 S7 Ap-4 D3 shots.

ERJAK wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

highwind01 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

Right, classic marines are going to be more expensive and therefore there will be less of them. Hellblasters, however, are primaris, not classic marines. They'll be the same price, but with better guns. You can get just as many hellblasters as before, but now they'll be better. This is a straight buff, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's an improvement to a unit that hasn't been seeing a lot of use, not some grand balancing plan.

Have you EVER seen anyone take hellblasters with anything BUT the rapid fire guns? this is an attempt to make the hellblasters other weapons options worth while. the gun everyone uses anyway isn't being buffed. this isn't an upgrade so much as a sidegrade

Tell that to the first person that eats 90 S7 Ap-4 D3 shots.

that's 1000 points of hellblasters and his entire heavy support selection (meaning no eradicators, no eliminators etc) frankly any list built that way is gonna be a one trick pony,




So scouts are confirmed to be remaining at one wound.

And the normal bolter is range 24". Good.

It is disappointing that the scout sergeant doesn't have two wounds though. They said all full marines would get that, and sergeants are full marines.

Scouts being 1W makes no sense from a fluff-perspective, which bugs me a little.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Scouts just less experienced firstborn in worse armor, but who from a physiological standpoint are exactly the same as firstborn?
I.e, 4+ save and T4 makes sense, 1W does not (especially not on the sgt.)

Kinda makes the tinfoil-theory about GW wanting to move scouts from Troops to Elites (or just Legends) seem more plausible.
What better way to silently move a decade old entry without having the playerbase kick up a fuss, than to make it garbage for an edition first?

Glad about Bolters remaining 24" (they should be) and Shotguns getting some love and becoming 18" though (now they're actually viable).

Scouts lacking the black carapace and power armor makes sense

 MinscS2 wrote:
What better way to silently move a decade old entry without having the playerbase kick up a fuss, than to make it garbage for an edition first?

What better way to have the playerbase kick up a fuss than make a decade old entry garbage for an edition?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
What better way to silently move a decade old entry without having the playerbase kick up a fuss, than to make it garbage for an edition first?

What better way to have the playerbase kick up a fuss than make a decade old entry garbage for an edition?

Touché.

Dunno, scouts as the 'cultist' style cheaper filler/objective holder unit makes sense in an army that is getting more and more elite. Not a horde but an option to focus on having more of the elite options without having to surrender too much board control.

GW have always liked the 1st and 10th style armies.

Scouts are revealed, which means a Sternguard and Devastator reveal is soonish. Also remarkably annoying that Shotguns are 18". There's really no reason to go Bolter at that point because stationary for the extra shot is literally only 6" and you get the benefits of the Assault weapon (as often as it comes up anyway) and likely keeping the rule for S5 at closer range. I'm just perplexed since the Bolter was already the least interesting option on them to begin with.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

I mean not really? No one was taking Hellblasters anymore. They at least have a more interesting variety now. If heavy is D3 it is still single shot.

Yes, really. I was commenting on the fact that we are continuing to see improvements in the amount of damage currently existing weapons can put out, not on whether or not Hellblasters are considered "good" compared to the myriad of strong options already available to loyalists.

And, as always, it needs to be said: Just because something isn't considered good compared to the other units in the strongest, most bloated codex in the game, doesn't mean it wouldn't be considered good in any other faction. AP-4 is a big deal, it renders any 3+ save moot without an invul, and when in the respective doctrine for the corresponding weapon it goes up to AP-5, which does the same to anything with a 2+ save lacking an invul. In any other codex that would be considered good, the fact that it's considered "meh" for loyalists speaks volumes about how many good options they have.

It definitely isn't meh for loyalists. That gun is a primaris murderer now and it likely rises to the level of Eradicators over half range when shooting vehicles. The problem being when they shoot they'll kill 3/5 of their own unit most of the time, which means captain and additional cost (and rolling one model at a time).

I can see your wheels spinning about them negating your Fellblade's 2+. In the current deployment setup you're going to need cultists (singular spawn are also great for this). You have to have enough drops to see where such units will be getting placed to maximize the advantage of your ranges.

For other units - don't leave home without Supplication.

No I'm not worried about what they'll do to my Fellblade because at its current inflated price along with the increase in the price of everything else (with more increases likely to come) I doubt I'll be playing it much. I'm more worried about what the assault variant will do to my soon to be 2W infantry, and what the heavy variant will do to any vehicle without an invul. The strength of a lascannon with the AP of a melta with a 36 inch range? Ouch. And we still don't know what the overcharge profile looks like. That thing will eat Leman Russes and Baneblades. And in the devastator doctrine it will have an AP equal to weapons that are meant to be super heavy killers like volcano cannons and D-scythes.

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoiler:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

highwind01 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So gw continues to pump up the games killing factor. I wonder if they'll jack up the damage for the heavy guns overcharge mode or just stick with more strength. At least they aren't giving primaris 3W.

Kinda short-sighted view...
Oldmarines getting 2W comes with an increase in points, leading to fewer models on the table and therefore fewer guns/output. They consequently adjust weapons so that 2000 points of Marines still dish out like 2000 points of Marines are supposed to do, even if they lose 20-25% of their bodies/weapons.

Besides the Hellblasters "heavy" weapon was a pure joke before, it def needed adjustment and upping its D by 1 is probably the best way possible.

Right, classic marines are going to be more expensive and therefore there will be less of them. Hellblasters, however, are primaris, not classic marines. They'll be the same price, but with better guns. You can get just as many hellblasters as before, but now they'll be better. This is a straight buff, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's an improvement to a unit that hasn't been seeing a lot of use, not some grand balancing plan.

Have you EVER seen anyone take hellblasters with anything BUT the rapid fire guns? this is an attempt to make the hellblasters other weapons options worth while. the gun everyone uses anyway isn't being buffed. this isn't an upgrade so much as a sidegrade

Ok, it's an improvement to a gun that hasn't been seeing a lot of use. Is that better?

Intercessors didn't change much. The Auxillary Grenade Launcher is now an Assault weapon, allowing it to be fired alongside the bolt rifle. This is especially good on Auto Bolt Rifle squads, as they will be firing both the grenade launcher and the ABR.

Scouts combat blades aren't getting AP, so that sucks. Perhaps Reivers will get a special version? Unlikely. But at least the Sergeant having a Chainsword provides a benefit.

Is there a compilation for these leaks and are they exclusive thus far to space marines?

There's a thread in 40k General which is trying to stay on top of them - I think there are a few Necron ones as well, but most of the ones I remember were SM.

Necrons are getting a lot of their classic units completely redone so we're seeing less new datasheets for them as GW's not bothering to rebox the old stuff. So yeah it's MOSTLY Marine stuff for now.