Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

as said above, with the new FW book Death Guard currently don't have access to the drills so i would hold fire on making any purchases until that is clarified...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I only have a contemptor in my DG army, magnetised with options for butcher cannons and fists or one of each.
With butchers gone, what do people think is the best ranged option? Obviously closest comparison is autocannon but they're a bit meh.
I'm thinking I might look to pick up a multi-melta arm and if we don't get access to contemptors back, at least fist and mm is a valid loadout for a helbrute and I'll just run it as that...

Abaddon303 wrote:
as said above, with the new FW book Death Guard currently don't have access to the drills so i would hold fire on making any purchases until that is clarified...

That is not exactly true. The new books says to check the CSM codex, and the CSM codex prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD only for datasheets in the codex.
RAW nothing prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD in another book.

This might change when a new Codex: Chaos Space Marines is released, and it feels like their intention was to block DG and TS from using FW stuff not intended for them, so I wouldn't invest in any new resin until this is clarified.

So I will hold my horses.
Thanks

 Jidmah wrote:

Abaddon303 wrote:
as said above, with the new FW book Death Guard currently don't have access to the drills so i would hold fire on making any purchases until that is clarified...

That is not exactly true. The new books says to check the CSM codex, and the CSM codex prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD only for datasheets in the codex.
RAW nothing prevents you from replacing <LEGION> with DEATH GUARD in another book.

This might change when a new Codex: Chaos Space Marines is released, and it feels like their intention was to block DG and TS from using FW stuff not intended for them, so I wouldn't invest in any new resin until this is clarified.

You are of course correct. I do hope this gets corrected, I would normally have said that this is an oversight but the fact the new forgeworld book uses the words 'following the guidance and restrictions' i don't feel particularly confident that this isn't intended. The only restrictions the codex offers is on DG, TS and Fallen. If they didn't want to restrict those keywords explicitly, then that caveat in the Forgeworld book would be completely unnecessary. :(

What are you guys hoping to see with the new book to bring DG back into the light?

I don't think they are bad right now, just seem to be limited by number of options.

I'm hoping for Mortarion buffs. Drop the # of wounds by one so we can use obscuring terrain please.

Thoughts?

I don't want to tempt fate by asking for too much so really I'd probably hope to cling to most of what they gave us in psychic awakening and keeping our 5+++. Just with the extra wound on our marines we'll be looking very solid.

We do have a limited line up, but there's not a huge gaping hole in our lineup, hopefully this new hq mitigates Daemon engines not having core. I can't see us getting any other new units personally.

So really it's all about whether we get some new legion trait and doctrines equivalent which can only really be upside.

Maybe it's because I also play CSM that I'm not in anyway concerned or desperate for a new DG codex? I expect maybe it's in the early lineup because there won't be massive overarching changes and it's largely a copy and paste...

I'm hoping for a proper legion trait that affects everything like all other non chaos armies.
At the moment we literally only have 18" rapid fire and no -1 on running with blight launchers. And if we stay still our bolters have a larger threat range anyway since Mv 5. It only really helps with plasma guns.

I would also like some sort of turn by turn bonus like Marines and Necrons have got. No idea what, but an equivalent of some kind.


The biggest reason for wanting these is that if DG don't get them, then that will set the precedent for all Chaos forces, which means nothing will get them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also wondering how things like plagueswords will be handled. Will they stay exact same, or will they get the +1s similar to power weapons.

I am assuming all flamer weapons will go up to 12", but at same time, ours were always a different range so maybe they won't.

I'm really hoping there aren't crazy price rises really. It could be very easy to add too many points for the extra wound, not taking into account that this is already countered by the pretty low damage output compared to marines.

DG are in a pretty awesome place right now, most of the things they need is housekeeping.
My wishes:

- Plague Marines to 2W
- Plague Marines get virulent rounds, PBC get accelerated entropy and LoC get harbinger of nurgle as stock abilities
- Update all plague weapons according to their imperial counter-parts
- Helbrutes get dread treatment
- Improve heavy blight launcher
- Make Mortarion more interesting, maybe limit the damage he can take per turn
- Summoning rules worth using (for example without range limit)
- Useful legion trait, for all units (except pox walkers and cultists)
- Everything else stays the same

By the way, are there any lore related shenanigans preventing DG to use assault drills?

Maybe?
Since Barbarus has been re-created as the Plague Planet inside the warp and is littered with manufactoriums, they can still create much of the gear they had after the heresy. They also still have a functioning fleet since the plague ships re-appear near the plague planet even if they are destroyed or abandoned. Lastly, DG often clear out the crew of marine vehicles through bio-weapons and capture the gear left behind.

However, their vehicles tend to rot and mutate, so if the technology to create drills has disappeared, they might not have any left that didn't turn into piles of rust or giant maggots or something.

 Jidmah wrote:
Maybe?
Since Barbarus has been re-created as the Plague Planet inside the warp and is littered with manufactoriums, they can still create much of the gear they had after the heresy. They also still have a functioning fleet since the plague ships re-appear near the plague planet even if they are destroyed or abandoned. Lastly, DG often clear out the crew of marine vehicles through bio-weapons and capture the gear left behind.

However, their vehicles tend to rot and mutate, so if the technology to create drills has disappeared, they might not have any left that didn't turn into piles of rust or giant maggots or something.

Tangentially, a maggot TAD would be an incredible hobby project

Tyrannocyte would be a viable base for it, I’ve used it to make corrupted Dreadclaw and KAC with pleasing results

I would Just love some QoL changes and more options. I always found myself playing the same units. They should make like necron and marines codex, where almost everything can be played and has some sort of utility. Also custom plague companies PLS.

What secondaries are people having success with? Death guard aren't particularly killy so I tend to not make much headway with the kill secondaries. Engage is good, I was tempted by 'if we stand' but I like to be aggressive with my Daemon Princes and they don't tend to survive all game.
I've been contemplating spending a CP to put a unit of poxwalkers in reserve to walk on in my opponent's dz and score me the tricky part of deploy scramblers. Seems a bit of a waste tho...

It's pretty much the same as for everyone.

1) Pick a kill secondary that is likely to rewards at least 12 VP
2) Direct Assault (Sweep and Clear) and Strategic Scan (the Scouring)
3) Grind them down
4) Engage on all fronts/Linebreaker
5) Scramblers

I have reasonably played a few smaller games (500p to 1000p) and my favorite secondary is PSYCHIC RITUAL.
Of course, it is no good if the opponent has a psyker but only run into one so far. I use a defensively buffed prince for it and the mid board is his right place anyway.
One reason that I usually pick this is that I do not have any infantry unit, except 1 unit of cultist and a support character, so the infantry secondaries are not so tempting. Another reason is that it is hard to score high on some of the others, for example the killing ones, due to the low point level.

I wish GW would find a way to combine Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons into one cohesive army. Like they do for the Maggotkin in AoS.

Perhaps some sort of unique rules for a combined armies detachment.

So I know our Codex is right around the corner, but I couldn't wait and got myself a new box of PM´s. Since I don't have a dedicated melee squad yet I was thinking of making one now, but my question is should I go with axes or double knives? I know the flails tend to do the heavy lifting, but I find that just knives is useless in my meta with lots of high T, multiple wounds infantry all over the place.

Axes, mostly because you can have the DI guys with grenades in their hands count as dual knives or convert them to have two.

In general, I would avoid building any marines from the box into configurations you can find elsewhere for much cheaper.

All DG forgeworld options with the <LEGION> keyword have been moved to legends. No more drills in tournaments.

 Jidmah wrote:
All DG forgeworld options with the <LEGION> keyword have been moved to legends. No more drills in tournaments.

That's a shame considering the drills seemed to have been buffed to make them even better.

 dan2026 wrote:
I wish GW would find a way to combine Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons into one cohesive army. Like they do for the Maggotkin in AoS.

Perhaps some sort of unique rules for a combined armies detachment.

I agree. Surprised GW hasn't already considering it would help sell more models in the long run.

I am curious if we might see some fundamental DG changes in the coming codex which would allow us to take the FW units again.

Forgeworld Legends wrote:IMPERIAL ARMOUR COMPENDIUM UNITS IN DEATH
GUARD AND THOUSAND SONS ARMIES
Many units described in the Imperial Armour Compendium,
as well as in this document, can be fielded in Death Guard and
Thousand Sons armies even though you cannot normally replace
the <Legion> keyword with either Death Guard or Thousand Sons.
Such a unit counts as a Legends unit for all purposes.
• You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the
Imperial Armour Compendium or from this document to
be from the Death Guard Legion (excluding Hellforged
Rapier Battery and Chaos Hellwright units). Such units also
gain the Bubonic Astartes keyword and can be from one of
the seven Plague Companies, and so also gain the <Plague
Company> keyword.

I think we can see two spoiler for our upcoming codex here:
1) DG will be Bubonic Astarted, so no more using Heretic Astartes powers for us
2) Plague Companies might be getting more than what we've seen in PA

So - the Legends bit has been removed from that document, once again removing our access to FW Compendium units outside of the Greater Blight Drone.

However, the current wording allows us to take any of the Legends CSM stuff the same way the 8th edition FW Index Chaos was FAQd - hopefully they just port that wording over to the Compendium FAQ without the short-lived Legends clause.

As for Bubonic Astartes - that's added to the units *in addition* to Heretic Astartes. I initially thought the same re: losing access to CSM buffs, but we'll have to wait and see.

Plague Companies being more than just a relic, trait and pair of strats has already been heavily rumoured from some playtesters and would be a nice change to give us some options.

I'm fairly sure that the idea is the same as what they did when splitting craftworld eldar from drukhari - to prevent unintended cross-codex synergies.

On the upside, they might now be able to add something interesting to Mortarion without having to assume that he makes first turn charges.

I think Jidmah has it right. They are adding bubonic astartes heretic astartes for the FW compendium units. It is logical to assume that deathguard will lose heretic astartes keyword.

I heard a rumour that the Deathguard codex was removing the units that sat across both factions like the defiler. That rumour combined with this change to me implies that DG will lose heretic astartes. Even worse, it could mean that we lose other units like the chaos lord and sorcerer and maybe even a rhino, to be replaced by new models. We might even lose contaminated monstrosity as there won't be anything to play it on.

I'm totally gutted by this though, my deredeo's, leviathan , spartan, drill and more all have no more use in competitive play. I'm at aa loss as what to do with them. Maybe repurpose them as the purge is what my buddies are suggesting. Anyone else confused and pissed off by this change?

Is there a source for that rumor?

Removing rhinos and defilers wouldn't make any sense at all.

I heard it mentioned in passing on a podcast I listened to recently. I think it was either Chapter tactics or In the finest hour. There was also some rumblings about this happening a long time ago on reddit. Rumours are what they are so consider it unlikely but the idea was that GW wanted to move DG and 1ksons into fully fleshed out factions independent of the csm dex.

I agree on rhino's. They could easily just create a separate datasheet at a higher cost and with disgustingly resilient built in.

I expect this FW change to be a big sign of that. If it comes with all new models i'll be ok with losing my existing ones.

Eh. Not a fan of having units invalidated so shortly after getting them.

I know I'm looking at my 3 defilers and my drill which was pretty much finished days before the FW leak. This is a real kick in the teeth for me.

But rumours are probably not true. We're probably days away from some juicy DG leaks so solidly into wishlisting territory.

I want a new daemon engine model and I expect some Forgeworld treatment from new models to make up for this loss.

Is there any play with a greater blight drone, I've never looked at it before?

Well, it's essentially a side-grade to a heavy blight launcher drone with nurgle's gift for some reason. Not impressed.