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I think they're pretty excellent. Not amazing damage, but a high volume of fire combined with pretty excellent mobility on a platform that doesn't degrade and is significantly cheaper than the FBD.
The potential occasional Mortal Wound is all gravy.

Extremely doubtful of losing Rhinos - could see an argument for Defilers but I'm also pretty doubtful.

The reliable things I've heard:
We have a mono-faction bonus. It's good with GBDs (specifically thanks to their M14") and Mortarion.
The Plague Companies change the way you play.
Plague Marines will be good.
Terminators are going to be 'Immovable objects'.
LoV is going to be good.

Hopefully we get more leaks / previews soon.

The Bubonic Astartes over Heretic Astartes is a concerning change, not that the synergies were game breaking but they were interesting, fluffy and necessary.

I maintain that the Chaos faction's main perk should be soup'ing. Especially with Abagail present.

I'd personally rather see closer synergies with daemons rather than between the legions. Never really sat right with me seeing TS, DG and Alpha Legion all in the same army.
I really hope they do something to make summoning a fun mechanic, even if its not particularly competitive...

Semper wrote:
The Bubonic Astartes over Heretic Astartes is a concerning change, not that the synergies were game breaking but they were interesting, fluffy and necessary.

I maintain that the Chaos faction's main perk should be soup'ing. Especially with Abagail present.

Removing the ability for different armies to directly synergize *should* increase balance across the board. I think keeping everything contained to its own codex is the way to make the game better. I understand your argument that DG is part of Chaos, but the chaos gods don't really play well together, so why should their respective armies?

Abaddon303 wrote:
I'd personally rather see closer synergies with daemons rather than between the legions. Never really sat right with me seeing TS, DG and Alpha Legion all in the same army.
I really hope they do something to make summoning a fun mechanic, even if its not particularly competitive...

Agree. When Death Guard, World Eaters and Thousand Sons join forces, it should be as part of the Black Legion.

Maybe TS and DG shouldn’t be on the closest of terms outside of well organised Black Crusades, but GW did already make Daemonkin a thing - and whilst I’m happy to have my Nurgle Word Bearers focus their Warptime on their own units, I’m already paying CP to field detachments from multiple codexes and hope this remains a viable approach with some bridging (like a herald buffing daemon engines and Oblits)

Sad to see the crossover gone for those who liked it but since I only play monodex it´s no deal for me personally. Also I disagree with the notion that Chaos should be all about that soup, I want us to play as proud Legions with their own strengths and weaknesses and largely self reliant unless there is a big Crusade going on.

 mokoshkana wrote:

Semper wrote:
The Bubonic Astartes over Heretic Astartes is a concerning change, not that the synergies were game breaking but they were interesting, fluffy and necessary.

I maintain that the Chaos faction's main perk should be soup'ing. Especially with Abagail present.

Removing the ability for different armies to directly synergize *should* increase balance across the board. I think keeping everything contained to its own codex is the way to make the game better. I understand your argument that DG is part of Chaos, but the chaos gods don't really play well together, so why should their respective armies?

With the CP cost of fielding extra detachments already in place and summoning being meh, I think Soup has been hit heavily enough to bring a lot of balance, especially from a Chaos perspective. Why couldn't an undivided power from an unmarked sorcerer speed up Mortarion, for example? Why would that offend Nurgle if we go the fluff route? To further that, there's numerous examples of the Chaos Gods and their minions working together for a common goal; Abaddon is literal proof of this and he unites different legions behind the Black Legion Banner, not necessarily under or as part of it (as in, DG don't have to surrender being DG to work in the 13th Crusade). Many of the legions have split into mercenary like warbands - why wouldn't they ally with one another for material gains. Yes, a marked warband worships their god but that doesn't always take a single minded approach (ie Ahriman).

Then there's the adage of the daemons issue. There's already so little synergy there. Many comment with stuff like 'soup broke the game', it did so in very few ways where it was abused and from a very narrow perspective from the competitive scene. If people are that concerned about balance, there's laundry list of things that really should come before a sorcerer speeding up someone from a different army they're already working with... ie almost every mono-space marine legion

Chaos is Chaos. Let it be soupy, chaosy chaos. At the very least, allow the marks to synergise!

I'm fairly sure that Mortarion would immediately put any witch trying to cast anything on him to the scythe, because he still is in full denial about being a psyker himself and hates sorcery.

From a game perspective, it's nigh impossible to balance a unit for mono-codex games if you can double its movement by adding a second one. We have seen similar problems for the Eldar factions already. Soup synergy should come from bringing units that can fill gaps in your army, not from keyword combos.

I'm fairly sure that warp time will go to affecting CORE units only anyways (if it remains in its current form at all), so it's not a huge loss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Death Guard terrain article

You can look forward to the (un)freshly updated edition of Codex: Death Guard and this revolting new kit next month, so keep your Nurgle-blessed, cyclopean eye on warhammer-community.com and sign up to our newsletter for all the latest info. In the meantime, make sure you’ve got plenty of Plague Marines with which to form the backbone of your Death Guard force.

The rules seem meh and the model's not the best.

Rules are a bit naff. Might see some play if Blight Haulers remain great and if you know the table is gonna be light of terrain?

Depends a lot on the rest of the rules and the points.

yeah, if it doesn't have any other rules, its gonna be a hard pass.
Its basically a worse ruin.

On the other side, it being previewed means that we're in DeathGuard season!
Time to see what else the codex brings us so i can finally decide if i get into the army or not

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, if it doesn't have any other rules, its gonna be a hard pass.
Its basically a worse ruin.

On the other side, it being previewed means that we're in DeathGuard season!
Time to see what else the codex brings us so i can finally decide if i get into the army or not

You should buy in. We're awesome.

 lare2 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, if it doesn't have any other rules, its gonna be a hard pass.
Its basically a worse ruin.

On the other side, it being previewed means that we're in DeathGuard season!
Time to see what else the codex brings us so i can finally decide if i get into the army or not

You should buy in. We're awesome.

Oh, i know lol. I just barely have enough room left in my apartment to add an army.

This new terrain will make us the home end kings. Put it near some ruins with an objective in it and shove a unit of plague marines in the ruins. You now have a unit of T5 W2 2+ 5+++ badasses who are at minus one to be hit as well. Try clearing that objective

Ruins can't have objectives in them, and you can just have -1 to hit by casting miasma on them...

It really depends on the price of the terrain piece, if its rather cheap, you could put it near an objective to have cover and a MW aura there. I doubt that it will be any better than other faction terrain though.

I know that it remains an unreliable rumour, but I for one am entirely on board with minimal codex overlap re: units, so that each army can be really distinct. I love that DG have gone more the AoS route, and have an increasingly distinct identity from other Heretic Astartes forces. Of course I feel bad for anyone whose armies are invalidated. As a DG player, the shift from 7th to 8th was rough. But I'm happy to leave the copy/paste units to the Loyalist scum!

One of the things that determines the malignifier’s use will be the next Daemons codex. If the Gnarlmaw continues to affect a bunch of our units, a NURGLE (or CHAOS) fortifications network could come in handy.

darthryan wrote:
This new terrain will make us the home end kings. Put it near some ruins with an objective in it and shove a unit of plague marines in the ruins. You now have a unit of T5 W2 2+ 5+++ badasses who are at minus one to be hit as well. Try clearing that objective

Think you underestimate how bad my save rolls are.

The building looks unimpressive but we don´t know all it´s rules yet, maybe it can be infiltrated up the board improving it´s usefulness. Frankly I don´t care much for the faction buildings and I think this one looks ugly and out of place in a DG army so no skin of my back if it´s horrible.

It has to be better than the stupid space marine bunker

It's probably the better of the fortifications in the game. Putting one of these near an objective will make sure you'll never lose your deployment objectives by being shot off and deepstrikes will need more commitment. Plus it gives you more -1 to hit options as you can cast elsewhere for miasma

Also nearly every fortification has some interaction mechanic as well, so I'm excited to see what that does too.

I'm aware it's not broken or an auto include, but in terms of how many fortifications are far more useless, I'm happy to field this one on occasion.

 TonyH122 wrote:
I know that it remains an unreliable rumour, but I for one am entirely on board with minimal codex overlap re: units, so that each army can be really distinct. I love that DG have gone more the AoS route, and have an increasingly distinct identity from other Heretic Astartes forces. Of course I feel bad for anyone whose armies are invalidated. As a DG player, the shift from 7th to 8th was rough. But I'm happy to leave the copy/paste units to the Loyalist scum!

If they want to go the AoS route they then better add all the Nurgle daemons to the Death Guard codex and make the Death Guard codex a proper Maggotkin of Nurgle 40k.

Have a Rhino and Landraider with Nurgle doors and 2 Death Guard Contemptors. If these rumors are true I guess I'll just have to keep them as display pieces.

What worries me is that that DG doesn't have much long range firepower which is why Leviathans, Contemptors, and defilers became so popular. If they want to make Death Guard viable without these additions they'll have to pump up the volume/damage of many units to compensate.

I have found that the issue with long range firepower has drastically reduced with the new multi-meltas on MBH and accelerated entropy on PBC. Anti-tank no longer feels like a major weakness for DG.

You are probably right. I just haven't gotten the chance to play with my MBH since I painted them due to a COVID partial-lockdown. Tried them a few times before 9th and found them okayish. The Entropy Cannon PBC I have already tried and it has made my life a joy, especially when I Entropied a Ragnar Blackmane in the face during close combat and one-shotted him.

Does make me sad though that I did finish painting a Leviathan Dreadnought for Death Guard this year, but I guess that just means I now have a 30k DG force.

I have to admit I am getting super psyched about the new book in anticipation of changes, especially considering how old the current codex is.

Did any of you see the leaked profile for Typhus and the blight hauler? The later sporting BS and WS 3+, maybe a hoax but if daemon engines are all going to 3+ to hit its gonna be great!

Typhus goes to 5" move implying that cataphractii bonus is lost as with the loyalist changes. Blightords with 3W but 5++ is sad but still good.

 Nithaniel wrote:
Did any of you see the leaked profile for Typhus and the blight hauler? The later sporting BS and WS 3+, maybe a hoax but if daemon engines are all going to 3+ to hit its gonna be great!

Typhus goes to 5" move implying that cataphractii bonus is lost as with the loyalist changes. Blightords with 3W but 5++ is sad but still good.

FBD are on 3+ as well. 12" on the spitters as well. Mower lost S8 though but GBL a flat 2D now.

I compiled all known info here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/794217.page

It's likely that all daemon engines will be going to 3+, so defilers will be lot more sexy as well.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/30/the-most-improved-units-from-codex-death-guard/

TL;DR :

1. Plague Marines get 2 Wounds (we alredy knew it) AND 2 Attacks (w00t) ;
2. Possessed are Toughness 5 and flat 4 attacks and get Plague Weapons on their melee weapon. Still 1D though but it's fine with plague weapons and the sheer number of attacks.
3. It is confirmed that all Daemon Engines are hitting on 3+. Defiler also got an extra-Attack (now 5 Attack instead of 4).
4. There will be two new army-wide rules : Remorseless and Contagions of Nurgle (several abilities are tied to this last one). We will have more info in a future preview.

With 2 attacks per model some more of those close combat weapons might become viable.