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I haven't yet seen a single battle report where Morty died yet. I don't know if its because they didn't bring out the truly deadly shooty lists

THAT
We are testing, and very competitive lists (white scars, salamanders) can handle Mortarion, of course if you know how properly play.

 blackmage wrote:

I haven't yet seen a single battle report where Morty died yet. I don't know if its because they didn't bring out the truly deadly shooty lists

THAT
We are testing, and very competitive lists (white scars, salamanders) can handle Mortarion, of course if you know how properly play.

Unless, say, the DG player knows how to play too.

Armies have to skew quite hard to kill mortarion. No currently played Space marine army can do it, no one packs that much anti tank, it's wild overkill for everything but mortarion, and you are opening too many weaknesses into your army for all matchups except mortarion

Yoyo, i have some fun armies. But im considering junping into competitive.
How good would you rate the new dg? Im stuck between them and admech. Even i dont see many admech on high positions.
Also playing with aich a gorgeous modelo as morty is.. just lake me exciting.

Well, triple exorcist, triple retributor sisters list do a good job handling us. Especially with Brazier of Fires (d6 mortal wounds to chaos on a 2+). Bit of skew list but effective against us.

I’m not over the moon on poxmonger blighthaulers. They are fine, but my opponent ignoring the blighthaulers wasn’t bad, but I think I like the ROI for other companies better.

A bit early to rate it properly, but it's top 25% I'd say.
Kinda hard to say without proper playtesting or relevant tournament data.

Also it's one of the first armies to receive a codex, so who knows what the next months / releases will bring.
In any case Death Guard is an army that profits from 9th mission design and my guess is even with other books dropping we will still hold up well.

Also looks like apart,from sisters of battle. Necrons can counter us no?. That nightbringer can eat mortarion easy

zantio wrote:
Also looks like apart,from sisters of battle. Necrons can counter us no?. That nightbringer can eat mortarion easy

Only with fire support. He still has a decent chance to just not deal enough damage to kill him. You can also just shoot the nightbringer dead.

 Jidmah wrote:

zantio wrote:
Also looks like apart,from sisters of battle. Necrons can counter us no?. That nightbringer can eat mortarion easy

Only with fire support. He still has a decent chance to just not deal enough damage to kill him. You can also just shoot the nightbringer dead.

This. Let's break it down like this, Mortarion is an easier win model at this point. He isn't an auto win, but he hard counters min squads of Elites and hordes while also being incredibly tough. This happens to counter 85% of the meta. Necrons can definitely counter death guard, and a nightbringer would be an easy counter to morty in a vacuum but I dont see this vacuum actually existing in a game. Death guard will definitely have psycic powers, so that's one way to do wounds to the night bringer. Night bringer can be shot, there is another 3w. And in cc dg have lots of units that could hurt the night bringer before it ever gets close to morty. And even if the ctan got to charge mortarion with full health it probably isn't going to survive that fight. He will make mortarion bleed which could be enough, but I doubt it. I think we will have to worry about other things from necron hitting mortarion. Wraiths, scarabs, doomsday arks, tesla, all these in mass could do some dmg and cause mortarion to take serious dmg unexpectedly. If not, then wraiths can tie him up with their 4++ save buying them time and scarabs do explode for mortal wounds.

To me, Mortarian takes Miasma of Pestilence and Curse of the Leper every game, while his third known power can be match-up dependent. With smile and the combined power -1T with Curse, he should be able to do an average of about five mortal wounds each psychic phase against MEQ. So in the poxwalker plan mentioned above, you'd need 6 left alive to effectively guarantee he stays locked in for two rounds.


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Also, wouldn't Tzeench/GK be able to hammer Mortarian with psychic abilities? MW definitely seems like the easiest way to bring him down.

 mokoshkana wrote:
To me, Mortarian takes Miasma of Pestilence and Curse of the Leper every game, while his third known power can be match-up dependent. With smile and the combined power -1T with Curse, he should be able to do an average of about five mortal wounds each psychic phase against MEQ. So in the poxwalker plan mentioned above, you'd need 6 left alive to effectively guarantee he stays locked in for two rounds.


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Also, wouldn't Tzeench/GK be able to hammer Mortarian with psychic abilities? MW definitely seems like the easiest way to bring him down.

Charge him with two poxwalker units. He has 21 attacks split into 12 and 9. Even if he hits and wounds all 21, and you fail all 21, he kills one squad and brings the other squad down to 1 model. In his turn, his psychic will kill 1 model, so he is now free to charge, but he couldn't move. So, if you stayed 12 inches away from him, he has to make a 12 inch charge after smiting your last poxwalker to death. He likely won't make that charge. To make sure, you could stay 13.1 inches away from him. If there is no one within his charge range, he automatically has to stay where he is even after his smite frees him from combat.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
To me, Mortarian takes Miasma of Pestilence and Curse of the Leper every game, while his third known power can be match-up dependent. With smile and the combined power -1T with Curse, he should be able to do an average of about five mortal wounds each psychic phase against MEQ. So in the poxwalker plan mentioned above, you'd need 6 left alive to effectively guarantee he stays locked in for two rounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, wouldn't Tzeench/GK be able to hammer Mortarian with psychic abilities? MW definitely seems like the easiest way to bring him down.

Charge him with two poxwalker units. He has 21 attacks split into 12 and 9. Even if he hits and wounds all 21, and you fail all 21, he kills one squad and brings the other squad down to 1 model. In his turn, his psychic will kill 1 model, so he is now free to charge, but he couldn't move. So, if you stayed 12 inches away from him, he has to make a 12 inch charge after smiting your last poxwalker to death. He likely won't make that charge. To make sure, you could stay 13.1 inches away from him. If there is no one within his charge range, he automatically has to stay where he is even after his smite frees him from combat.

I understand the premise, but that seems to require the opposing player to perfectly play into your trap, which probably isn't likely.

He could play cautiously with Mortarion and keep Morty out of move+charge range of your chaff units which are likely in front. But that means your chaff units have a 5+13 inch no fly bubble around them. I doubt anyone would play Mortarion that cautiously.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
He could play cautiously with Mortarion and keep Morty out of move+charge range of your chaff units which are likely in front. But that means your chaff units have a 5+13 inch no fly bubble around them. I doubt anyone would play Mortarion that cautiously.

And the opponent's army is just not shooting your chaff? Mono DG means Mortarian isn't getting across the board into your lines until turn two. Assuming the opposition goes second, he has at least one turn of shooting before you could get your poxwalker charges off, which are both likely to be LONG charges as no competent player would willingly place Mortarian in a position to be tar-pitted. So your strategy relies on the opponent not shooting potential tar-pit units and then making multiple long distance charges. Sorry, but it doesn't seem like a plan that is often going to work.

All this depends on your tactics vs his. If he plays more cagey by not coming too close, then you have to probably screen hopefully in such a way he doesn't have good charge targets except your chaff on turn 2. So, you hope that 2 turns of psychic plus shooting plus charge in with your melee will kill him.

Some list like admech can probably kill Morty in one turn of shooting outright, but I don't think DG are in that category. So, we need more time. And you want to buy that time by sacrificing chaff rather than letting Morty kill high value units. Now you could always bring your own Morty. But that is a 50:50 situation down to player skill and dice rolls. And like I said, not every one has Morty in their DG list.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
He could play cautiously with Mortarion and keep Morty out of move+charge range of your chaff units which are likely in front. But that means your chaff units have a 5+13 inch no fly bubble around them. I doubt anyone would play Mortarion that cautiously.

obviously you never played 1 single game against DG, as if a decent DG list cant wipe out your chaffs, why i ever need to charge poxwalkers? Really you have no idea what you talking about, there are DG list that play 15 blightlords how long you believe your chaffs last with potential 60 bolter shots each turn, drones with mowers, PBC with flamer, should i need to go on?
You are all losing focus on 1 simple fact...DG is NOT Mortarion, without it remain a A codex, is how 9th ed is and how codex is made, if they nerf Morty. Dg will remain a top codex anyway...but this is a thing understandable only if you play against different army lists, not just read comments abd/or internet BR.

Your list isn't just shooting and 2 chaff units. If need be, sacrifice 2 PM squads of 5. Or two spawn units. Or charge in two FBD. I am just trying to give suggestions on how to deal with Morty. What would you suggest if you ran into a Morty list? Bring your own Morty and see who's skill is better? Or if you have no Morty, just concede ? Or are you going to refuse to play a Morty list ?

What's the point of trying so hard to poke holes in my suggestion if you are not going to offer any suggestion of your own? Fine, lets say I accept your answer that trying to tie him up for 1 turn is impossible somehow. Lets hear your suggestion on how to deal with Morty as a DG player then. I am all ears.

Honestly in a mirror match, I think the best thing to try and do is to try and charge my Morty into my opponents. This would be tough, but if I can do enough wounds to reduce Morty to tier 2/3, then I should win the match-up.

Though I suppose a lot of that depends on the variance between the lists.

I asked elsewhere, but was wondering if people might suggest how to build all the Plague Marines we just bought. The number of options is kinda overwhelming.

In total we own two sets of Dark Imperium Marines, the boxes of the actual PM kits, and a set of the Space Marine Heroes 3 Death Guard.

Its 41 total bodies, but obviously many of those offer no choices for wysiwyg gear. I imagine the best bet is to kit up the unbuilt kits for melee, meaning essentially one of every melee option per seven bodies?

So my dread on heavy blightlords+ morty competitive list comes true?

 mokoshkana wrote:
To me, Mortarian takes Miasma of Pestilence and Curse of the Leper every game, while his third known power can be match-up dependent. With smile and the combined power -1T with Curse, he should be able to do an average of about five mortal wounds each psychic phase against MEQ. So in the poxwalker plan mentioned above, you'd need 6 left alive to effectively guarantee he stays locked in for two rounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, wouldn't Tzeench/GK be able to hammer Mortarian with psychic abilities? MW definitely seems like the easiest way to bring him down.

With contagions of nurgle, curse of the leper has definitely become a lot more sexy, but I still prefer plague wind because you can freely pick the target and it works better against tarpits.


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Eldenfirefly wrote:
What's the point of trying so hard to poke holes in my suggestion if you are not going to offer any suggestion of your own? Fine, lets say I accept your answer that trying to tie him up for 1 turn is impossible somehow. Lets hear your suggestion on how to deal with Morty as a DG player then. I am all ears.

He never adds anything to these threads, he just attacks people who disagree with him and always states everything he says as absolute facts. Just ignore him.


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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I asked elsewhere, but was wondering if people might suggest how to build all the Plague Marines we just bought. The number of options is kinda overwhelming.

In total we own two sets of Dark Imperium Marines, the boxes of the actual PM kits, and a set of the Space Marine Heroes 3 Death Guard.

Its 41 total bodies, but obviously many of those offer no choices for wysiwyg gear. I imagine the best bet is to kit up the unbuilt kits for melee, meaning essentially one of every melee option per seven bodies?

If you don't want to magnetize, your best shot would be building the box of 7 into melee weapons, as those can't be gotten anywhere else. The only thing I would skip on is the dual knives/axe+knive guys because you can convert those from the DI marines which are just holding grenades.

I'd also try to track down some ETB/conquest plague marines because they are the cheapest way to get plasma champions and blight launchers.

Thanks! I am sitting here with a spread-sheet and if I absolutely maximize every bit/body, I can end up with enough of everything to either run two full shooty units and one melee one, or two melee ones and one shooty one.

It isn't perfect, but it seems to get me the most usable collection of options, for the moment. I spent a fortune on 40k this week, so I really need to make it work for a while. :-p

The only thing I wouldn't be able to build is the Great Clever guys, but they seem like a weird choice mixed into an anti-infantry unit.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Your list isn't just shooting and 2 chaff units. If need be, sacrifice 2 PM squads of 5. Or two spawn units. Or charge in two FBD. I am just trying to give suggestions on how to deal with Morty. What would you suggest if you ran into a Morty list? Bring your own Morty and see who's skill is better? Or if you have no Morty, just concede ? Or are you going to refuse to play a Morty list ?

What's the point of trying so hard to poke holes in my suggestion if you are not going to offer any suggestion of your own? Fine, lets say I accept your answer that trying to tie him up for 1 turn is impossible somehow. Lets hear your suggestion on how to deal with Morty as a DG player then. I am all ears.

is not poke holes... in 9th you need to focus on mission not on how erase models, DG termies in decent numbers can fend off Morty, he is a model with an high damage output decent mobility he decide where and how charge, so you NEED to play the mission and force him to commit where can do less damage, if you keep focus "chase" him and try to kill him well...usually dont work, 9th ed put enfasis on mission not on kill stuff, we tested against Morty, he is a pain in the.... but if you play the mission you can pull out a victory, is the mental approach that need to change, forget how we play in 8th, stand still and obliterate anything we want, 9th is mobility and obj control, i dont know how explain, just need to play and see i cant tell more. Dont forget if you dont bring Morty itself you can build pretty effective shooty lists, maybe you cant obliterate morty in 1 turn but you can deliver some decent damage. Mortarion is hard to deal with, you need to play around him as much as you can.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks! I am sitting here with a spread-sheet and if I absolutely maximize every bit/body, I can end up with enough of everything to either run two full shooty units and one melee one, or two melee ones and one shooty one.

It isn't perfect, but it seems to get me the most usable collection of options, for the moment. I spent a fortune on 40k this week, so I really need to make it work for a while. :-p

The only thing I wouldn't be able to build is the Great Clever guys, but they seem like a weird choice mixed into an anti-infantry unit.

To me the role of the cleaver is versatility. If allows you go to after T8 (which now becomes T7 thanks to contagions) if the need arises. Two of them allows for 6 attacks hitting on 4+ while wounding on 3+ with rerolls of 1. Also, have some potential for character hunting too if the opportunity presents itself.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks! I am sitting here with a spread-sheet and if I absolutely maximize every bit/body, I can end up with enough of everything to either run two full shooty units and one melee one, or two melee ones and one shooty one.

It isn't perfect, but it seems to get me the most usable collection of options, for the moment. I spent a fortune on 40k this week, so I really need to make it work for a while. :-p

The only thing I wouldn't be able to build is the Great Clever guys, but they seem like a weird choice mixed into an anti-infantry unit.

I'm in the exact same situation, I got 42 PM to build with 4 boxes PM, the heroes 3 series, the reinforcements, easy to build, blister Champ & ikon and DI dudes. My first 20 dudes are 6 Blight Launchers + 14 bolters.

With the boxes there is enough stuff to kitbash everything one-handed, so do the double handed stuff like flails first.

Overall I'd go for 4-6 Blight Launchers, 4-6 flails and a good amount of bolters.
2 Plasma + 1 Plasma Champ for 1 dakka squad and 4-6 cc dudes depending on preference to be able to play at least 1 squad of 10 for both shooting and melee.

I decided to build each melee weapon twice so I can build any possible melee squad.
Sadly there are no flails online in any bitz shop, so take care of those!
I got myself some Chaos marauder flails this week, to build the missing ones. (I have just 4 but want 6)
Suggest you look for something like that as well because my guess is those might sell out soon. You get just one flail with each box + the 1 flail in the heroes box.

Also you wanna play cultists / poxwalkers?
If not I'd try to build the models for 2-3 squads of 5 to camp on home objectives / do actions and still have the right models for additional 2 x 10.
The spare ones are perfect for listbuilding. With most point values being multiples of 5 you can often simply give a squad another special weapon to get exactly 2000 points.

Also you wanna play cultists / poxwalkers?
If not I'd try to build the models for 2-3 squads of 5 to camp on home objectives / do actions and still have the right models for additional 2 x 10.
The spare ones are perfect for listbuilding. With most point values being multiples of 5 you can often simply give a squad another special weapon to get exactly 2000 points.

In a list full of PM i guess 1x20 pox is ok to camp on some backfield obj, hinder ds and so on.

I own, 40x Poxwalkers, and can borrow my Emperor's Childrens 60x Cultists. I'm super set on that front, thankfully.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I own, 40x Poxwalkers, and can borrow my Emperor's Childrens 60x Cultists. I'm super set on that front, thankfully.

Just remember you need 1 unit of buobotic astartes infantry for every poxwalker unit you have in your list. Deathshrouds or blightlords counts too. So, if you want to field 5 units of 20 poxwalkers, you need to have 5 units of deathshrouds / blightlords / plague marines in your list.

So, not to derail the morty train, but having the book and really looking through it something seems interesting to me.

One of our hq's are going to have to be a sorcerer or plaugecaster. The sorcerer is an interesting option, it's in term armor so has a 2+/5++, has disgustingly resistance, can be given a relic to know an additional power (flexibility isn't bad) and once per turn if it successfully casts a spell it heals d3 wounds (on a 5w guy that isn't bad) but here is the kicker... you can give him twin lightning claws. Spend a cp to give him hulking physic or rottin constitution for even more toughness/resilience, you could have yourself a pretty good support chr that's able to face off against anything but the most concentrated amounts of assault. Add a plauge surgeon in because of course your taking one and... yeah.

I mean, a 2+/5++/6+++ 6w, heals 2d3, reduce dmg by 1, 1-3 always fails to wound, t5, 6 attacks rerolling wounds at ap-2... plus able to know 3 spells plus smite? That's some tactical flexibility and cc goodness for only 185 pts for the two guys.

read better the periapt...is d3 ONCE per battle. Lord+temy sorcerer are 195 not 185, for the rest yes termy sorcerer is a good HQ choice overall.

Ok, 1 per battle is still quite good.

Term sorcerer is 110. Plauge surgeon is 75. Thats 185.

It's too bad we can't give him a deadly pathogen on top of that but that may be a bit too much anyways.