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having now a PBC that hit on 2+ (prescience) disgusting force is more appealing, pity that usually i roll 1 or 2 for number of hits, when i use the stratagem

Most used Strategems:

Disgusting Force
Flash Outbreak


And for some surprise damage with my BL stolen bolters-
Eternal Hatred (+1 to wound)
Virulent Rounds (plague weapons)
Virmed Whispers (+1 to hit)

Use those 3 strategems after you get a bloat drone near a unit the inexorable contagion, have your tallyman/lord nearby with his exploding 6s aura and within 12” arch-contaminator. Needless to say you can bring down a leviathan in one turn, but it costs 4-6 CP.

32 shots, Hitting on 2, rerolling 1s, exploding 6s, wounding everything on a 4+ (Or better), rerolling all failed wounds, at -1 AP kills pretty much everything.

It’s nice telling someone they have to make 30-35 saves on a unity’s bolter shots.

Most used stratagems:

The Blightening (and Strategic Reserves)
Flash Outbreak
Vermid Whispers

 blackmage wrote:
having now a PBC that hit on 2+ (prescience) disgusting force is more appealing, pity that usually i roll 1 or 2 for number of hits, when i use the stratagem

It's just 1 CP so I just use it by default whenever I'm shooting 3W models or vehicles/monsters. It doesn't always pay off, but it makes a huge difference when it does.

I’ve found that a lot of deathguard stratagems to be situationally powerful. Fortunately, most games will have several instances where many are good. Unfortunately, this means that you will have to know a good chunk of our 28 (+ plague company specific and soup) stratagems. When starting I’d focus on learning how to use flash outbreak, enteral hatred, the 2 terminator specific ones, and the poxwalker specific stratagems. These will be your generally useful ones that you will use most games.

Also I have to agree with black mage that in a competitive sense running a world bearers psyker makes more sense then Ahriman. Having that extra consistency is very helpful.

Wow, I am enjoying Deathguard. Played against an Imperium player running White Scars + IG. We both had fun. But wow, DG are resilient! There wasn't enough terrain in our deployment zone to hide the entire army. I did the best I could. Was getting hit by vengence of Cadia strategem every turn. But despite that, it was an epic bloodbath for both sides.

By end of turn 3, I had lost two 3 man spawns units, two of my 3 man deathshrouds, and a 10 man poxwalker unit (all mostly killed by shooting). But he had lost 3 characters, 2 outrider units, 2 assault intercessor units, an assault centurion unit, and all of his IG infantry. He was down to his 2 Manticores, 2 Tank commanders and 2 IG characters. It was brutal. We talked it through cos we were out of time, but we agreed he would have lost. He had too few assets left and there were six objectives on the board, of which I was in a position to sit on as many as four. It was still extremely fun though. Have to give MVP to the Pox walkers though. People always under estimated what a mere T4 unit can do. But then they fail to kill the whole unit, and its fearless, and you then bring back a whole bunch in your command phase with that strategem and that wastes all the effort they did to bring down the numbers of pox walkers. That mutated strain strategem is also extremely good on a big 20 man pox walker unit.

Also, a ten man blightlord unit can pump out a surprisingly good amount of damage from just bolter and reaper autocannon shooting alone if supported by a Tallyman and a Lord. And they are so hard to shift.

Also, coming into melee range of a DG army is just rough. Contagion gift of nurgle will bring your toughness down by 1, and then you get mortal wounds being thrown at you by curse of the leper and other sources. And then you fight last, and finally DG terminators, Chaos Spawn, and heck even out pox walkers can do the work in close combat. I think my opponent's strategy was to throw the white scars forward to buy time for his IG shooting to do its work. But the white Scars component of his army just got killed so quickly once they got into melee range.

Speaking of useful stratagems, has anyone found any success with the orbital bombardment one? I've tried it twice so far and found it pretty underwhelming for 3CP.
I also have a question regarding the Tallyman. I know his old ability was not capped by the "gain 1CP per batlle round" rule but is the new ability capped by it or not? The way I read it it's not but that also seems stupidly powerful especially if I were to include 2 tallyman in bigger games.
Edit: Good to hear you are also having fun with the new book Eldenfirefly, sounds like it was an interesting game. Must have been rough I imagine because Vengeance for Cadia is absolutely busted as a strat. I personally can't wait to see it go away once IG get their new codex.

is not capped

It's the same as in 8th, you can only gain or refund max 1cp per turn. P245 of the rulebook.
Pretty sure Tallyman was capped in 8th too?

you can gain 1cp in EVERY command phase, yours and opponent one actually.

Right, you CAN, but that only matters if you fail to roll a 7+ In your own command phase, you get a second chance in theirs. The average command point refund for Tallyman is around 4 per game at basically a 75% per battle round.

Tallymans rule of generating a command point per command phase doesn’t overrule the big rule book limit of one per battle round. He’s busted because you get two tries instead of one.

Exactly. no different to something like UM's 'Adept of the Codex' where you can have multiple attempts at a 5+ per turn but only get to regain one CP per round.

 blackmage wrote:

Salt donkey wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
WB is better because of stratagem, if you fail a critical power you can let it goes off, anyway Ts are fine too.

The strategem is the big reason to take the sorcerer I agree, that + being 35 points cheapner, and jetpack. However, you also are losing an extra cast, the extra range on spells (good for warptime and deathhex) and most importantly
+ 1 to deny and 2 extra denies. Good when handling stuff like dark angle, tyranid, and mirror matchup powers. Also you will have to spend 1 CP to get the WB relic for your guy and while the stratagem is amazing, it will cost you CP as well. It still might be worth it to play the WB sorcerer over Ahriman, but I don’t think it’s a clear cut answer.

is not like that list play... you dont need anytime warptime/deahex on sorcerer, if you have Morty you use chaos familiar if needed, you dont need the relic really. Arhiman is great but if he fails, he fails period and happen more often than you can ever believe, you have 3 deny with Mortarion+couple more with malignant and WB sorcerer, is usually enough. Anway both are good choices, without morty anyway warptime a block or blightlords/deatshouds/FBD, prescience on a PBC, still can be game changing, death hex on a large block of DA termies can change outcome of a game anyway.
tried list with and without heretic astartes psy powers and anytime i feel i prefer spend 2 extra CP for HA detachement.

Rules question...

Is it really kosher to use the CSM stratagem Chaos Familiar on Morty? And to unlock that is to have a CSM detachment??

I thought all stratagems was locked into detachments only...

Only chaos daemons are. CSM stratagems can be used on any model with the correct keywords.

I wouldn't spend too much money on CSM models right now though, it's pretty much guaranteed that this synergy will go away.

 Jidmah wrote:
Only chaos daemons are. CSM stratagems can be used on any model with the correct keywords.

I wouldn't spend too much money on CSM models right now though, it's pretty much guaranteed that this synergy will go away.

Thanks.

My current list is CSM detachment, Demon detachment and Morty. I knew demon stratagems was locked out, hence why I brought in a CSM DP just to have access to DeathHex and warptime. Deathhex solves many of Morty's issues against high inv units.

Looking back at my previous games, Morty being able to use chaos familiar would've been really effective.

Also, I think you're right that by the next codex, CSM's stratagems would be locked out, ala the Demon ones.

Thanks for the clarification again!

Questions were answered thank you dakka community!

Is there a way to use the Chaos Space Marine psychic powers in the death guard codex without losing nurgle's rot?

 CKO wrote:
Questions were answered thank you dakka community!

Is there a way to use the Chaos Space Marine psychic powers in the death guard codex without losing nurgle's rot?

no if you soup you lost -1T debuff and DG specific secondaries, honestly saying is anyway worth, warptime and death hex are game changers.

So looking at the new Typhus army list im thinking it could be interesting. No vehicles but new relics,powers and strategems depending on how good these turn out to be it could be a good swap. Being able to deep strike marines,possessed and chatacters into close range for free is isane. The strat that they show is rediculously good 2cp to be able to fire into combat could do some serious damage the poxwalkers tarpit an enemy that they cant harm but can tie up and then you just shoot into the combat to kill the enemy. You can even avoid the downside by just using flamer type guns.
Lungrot the power is so powerful it will pretty much shut down a units ability to charge for a turn, if the other powers are this good then it could be worth losing vehicles just for them.
That relic wtf a simple chaos lord would be making 5 s12 attacks a turn this is going to chew through anything.

darthryan wrote:
So looking at the new Typhus army list im thinking it could be interesting. No vehicles but new relics,powers and strategems depending on how good these turn out to be it could be a good swap. Being able to deep strike marines,possessed and chatacters into close range for free is isane. The strat that they show is rediculously good 2cp to be able to fire into combat could do some serious damage the poxwalkers tarpit an enemy that they cant harm but can tie up and then you just shoot into the combat to kill the enemy. You can even avoid the downside by just using flamer type guns.
Lungrot the power is so powerful it will pretty much shut down a units ability to charge for a turn, if the other powers are this good then it could be worth losing vehicles just for them.
That relic wtf a simple chaos lord would be making 5 s12 attacks a turn this is going to chew through anything.

list would be like?

darthryan wrote:
So looking at the new Typhus army list im thinking it could be interesting. No vehicles but new relics,powers and strategems depending on how good these turn out to be it could be a good swap. Being able to deep strike marines,possessed and chatacters into close range for free is isane. The strat that they show is rediculously good 2cp to be able to fire into combat could do some serious damage the poxwalkers tarpit an enemy that they cant harm but can tie up and then you just shoot into the combat to kill the enemy. You can even avoid the downside by just using flamer type guns.
Lungrot the power is so powerful it will pretty much shut down a units ability to charge for a turn, if the other powers are this good then it could be worth losing vehicles just for them.
That relic wtf a simple chaos lord would be making 5 s12 attacks a turn this is going to chew through anything.

What does "anything" mean? Does it include Death Guard stuff? On average it cannot kill 1 single DG terminator in a turn.

darthryan wrote:
So looking at the new Typhus army list im thinking it could be interesting. No vehicles but new relics,powers and strategems depending on how good these turn out to be it could be a good swap. Being able to deep strike marines,possessed and chatacters into close range for free is isane. The strat that they show is rediculously good 2cp to be able to fire into combat could do some serious damage the poxwalkers tarpit an enemy that they cant harm but can tie up and then you just shoot into the combat to kill the enemy. You can even avoid the downside by just using flamer type guns.
Lungrot the power is so powerful it will pretty much shut down a units ability to charge for a turn, if the other powers are this good then it could be worth losing vehicles just for them.
That relic wtf a simple chaos lord would be making 5 s12 attacks a turn this is going to chew through anything.

It isn't quite exactly deep striking in marines, possessed and characters into close range for free... Firstly, to place them into strategic reserve, you have to pay CP for that. So, it isn't free like terminators going into deep strike. The more stuff you place into strategic reserve, the more CP you have to pay. Also, you still set up over 9 inches away. And even with rerolls, making a 9 inch charge is iffy most of the time.

Honestly, if its just for this "outbreak Assault" ability, not sure its worth losing all vehicles. Because DG can already deep strike in terminators at over 9 inches. And I think terminators are usually better to be deep struck in as compared to PM. Have to see all of the relics and strategems though.

the only real deal i see is, give more mobility to an army that usually is quite slow, drop 2x10 PM or 10BL at 9" mean you can drop them around the table, over obj , turn1,you are at rapid fire range anytime you need, is not just about charge.
Anyway not sure if really worth, until i see the whole picture.

Blightlord Terminators can already deep strike. Not that you generally want them to. The benefit is purely for Foetid Virions, Plaguecasters, Daemon Princes, Possessed, and Plague Marines.

And Mortarion, cheekily.

Well if we get rules that make running a purely infantry army worth it I'd be very happy. But the strats, relics and psychic powers have to very good before I'd consider giving up our vehicles. We rely on those for long ranged support I don't see deepstriking PM solve our issues at tackling enemy armour at range.

 MinMax wrote:
Blightlord Terminators can already deep strike. Not that you generally want them to. The benefit is purely for Foetid Virions, Plaguecasters, Daemon Princes, Possessed, and Plague Marines.

And Mortarion, cheekily.

termy can DS start from 2nd turn only, not at 1st, is a big difference, not counting you can DS things like a spawn or a biologus with them for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Castozor wrote:
Well if we get rules that make running a purely infantry army worth it I'd be very happy. But the strats, relics and psychic powers have to very good before I'd consider giving up our vehicles. We rely on those for long ranged support I don't see deepstriking PM solve our issues at tackling enemy armour at range.

you would be surprised how much damage 10 plagues/BL can do, if properly supported, to veichles (+1 to hit exploding 6's, +1 to wound and virulent rounds with archcontaminator), try and see.

I doubt this will be disregarding the turn one restriction on deepstrike so it's doing nothing for terminators. I prefer starting stuff on the board in 9th so i can't see me using any of this.
preview rules are very underwhelming tbh, shooting into zombie melee is cool but at -1 and misses killing your own guys i'll pass for 2cp.
Fist seems decent, you'll be wounding on 2s most the time and rerolling 1s and no -1 to hit. Not sure there's anything i'd want to be taking with a fist though, I'd put it on a PM champ but i doubt that'll be allowed.

Abaddon303 wrote:
I doubt this will be disregarding the turn one restriction on deepstrike so it's doing nothing for terminators. I prefer starting stuff on the board in 9th so i can't see me using any of this.
preview rules are very underwhelming tbh, shooting into zombie melee is cool but at -1 and misses killing your own guys i'll pass for 2cp.
Fist seems decent, you'll be wounding on 2s most the time and rerolling 1s and no -1 to hit. Not sure there's anything i'd want to be taking with a fist though, I'd put it on a PM champ but i doubt that'll be allowed.

You are probably right that it won't be allowed turn 1, BUT there is a precedent for it. SMs can drop pod in turn 1. When you take into account the amount of restrictions I don't think allowing it turn 1 is actually that big a deal.

Edit: Ignore me. Strategic reserves is always turn 2 onwards so no reason to think this will be any different.

 blackmage wrote:

 MinMax wrote:
Blightlord Terminators can already deep strike. Not that you generally want them to. The benefit is purely for Foetid Virions, Plaguecasters, Daemon Princes, Possessed, and Plague Marines.

And Mortarion, cheekily.

termy can DS start from 2nd turn only, not at 1st, is a big difference, not counting you can DS things like a spawn or a biologus with them for example.

You can't arrive from turn one using Strategic Reserves. So, not relevant. Chaos Spawn are not Bubonic Astartes.

under outbreak assault description nothing is said you cant turn1, you dont follow what core rule book says...so lets see the full rules then we can see if worth or not.
Of course i was talking about blightspawn

Drop Pods use the following wording:
"This transport can be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase, regardless of any mission rules."

Outbreak Assault does not. You cannot use Outbreak Assault to set models up during the first battle round.