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If you’re using 5 man PMs for actions, save 60 points and just use 10 man cultists. You could for similar points do another 10 man block of PMs to make 3x10 and 2x10 cultists. Probably better than using those three 5 mans to just be 100+ pointed action monkeys!


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Wretched:

LOC
Malignant Plaguecaster 7-fold and Demons favor
Malignant Plaguecaster putrid peripet

10x PMs with 2 Blight Launchers
10x PMs with 2 Blight Launchers
10x PMs with 2 Blight Launchers
10x cultists
10x cultists
10x cultists

5x Blightlords with launcher
Tallyman with tollkeeper and arch contaminator
Plague Surgeon

PBC
PBC
PBC

Good screening if needed, 30 crazy bricks, a deep strike threat, lots of mortals.

For the Defiler, which would you recommend; the autocannon or the twin lascannons? Also, I'm up in the air if the it's better to equip the power scourges or the twin heavy flamer.

What do you want it to do?
That’ll probably answer your question.

I’m not exactly sure what I would want defilers to do if I was using them in my DG, as I think there are better options for anti tank in PBCs with entropy and Haulers, better options for counter assault in death shroud. Maybe as a fast forward pressure unit? Even then, it’s large and hard to use with lots of terrain, where bloat drones are probably better in being smaller and have FLY.

So where the defiler comes in is maybe in some sort of demon engine spam? Even then, with PBCs filling out heavy slots, I’m not sure where he fits.

My suggestion? Keep them with the cheapest options.

I have had some success souping DG with CSM. CSM is an 8th ed codex, so it doesn't lose anything souping. DG lose the gift of Nurgle contagion. But its fine, because most of the time, I actually think it doesn't come into play that much. Whatever DG get into melee with against our Blightlord terminator bloc is probably losing to us anyway, regardless of whether we have a -1 toughness or not.

Souping bring us the benefit of more utility to play missions with. Like souping CSM in lets me field cheap units of jump pack Raptors, cheap 60 points CSM troops which are obsec. And if you take Emperor's children, then you get cheap terminators that can deep strike in and get a close to guaranteed charge in with their Honor the Prince strategem.

So, you can still have the benefits of DG mostly (run a big tough to kill Blightlord bloc, tallyman for cp, Foul blightspawn for fights last, and the best tanks in the game (PBC). Plus now by souping in CSM, we get additional utility to play missions like Retrieve Nachmund data, engage on all fronts, etc because CSM can give us fast, reliable jump pack or teleport units. I find that with that added utility, I don't miss losing the DG secondaries at all, because being able to score high in Engage or RND reliably is even better than any of the DG secondaries.

Consider this: You have the big Blightlord terminator bloc supported by FBS, Miasma of pestilence advancing up the board to contest and take the center. So strangle hold is definitely a thing you can play for. Meanwhile, you have 2 PBCs holding your backfield with cheap obsec CSM troops or cultists (Your choice). Meanwhile, you can strategic reserve 2 cheap CSM obsec units for just 1CP, and then put 2 raptor squads and 2 terminator squads into deep strike.

Now your opponent is facing a beta strike of 6 units coming in on turn 2 and 3. And with so many units coming in turns 2 and 3, taking RND and engage on all fronts is definitely a strong choice. Plus now your opponent has hard choices. Is he going to have to try and spread out to screen his entire half of the board against your units coming in from reserve and deep strike? But can he do that while still being able to handle the big brick of Blightlord terminator bloc with characters marching straight up the middle? And even if we lose all 6 of our units coming in, they would have done their job and gotten us secondary points.

The way I see it, if we soup in CSM, for the cost of giving up gift of nurgle, we are gaining a lot of what DG currently lacks - speed and mobility, which increases our ability to play the mission and that's ultimately what wins games, not killing the opponent.

I agree with the reasons for souping CSM.

If we could get something like Raptors or even if our cultists were ob sec we’d be in a better spot.

Kenny Boucher just won a game on Dice Check using Rhinos and cheaper versions of the PBCs to just take space, along with 6 man plague marines squads with a flail to have some close combat punch. I know that’s not the highest end of completion but for most of us dummies out here, that list and play style can be emulated and more gameS could be won.

I think there’s some play to the older style of rhino based plague marine lists. You could play for RND or engage or lots of other options because you can reliably be in different parts of the board with guys that are reasonably hard to shift, plus they are infantry and ob sec .

 Brymm wrote:
I agree with the reasons for souping CSM.

If we could get something like Raptors or even if our cultists were ob sec we’d be in a better spot.

Kenny Boucher just won a game on Dice Check using Rhinos and cheaper versions of the PBCs to just take space, along with 6 man plague marines squads with a flail to have some close combat punch. I know that’s not the highest end of completion but for most of us dummies out here, that list and play style can be emulated and more gameS could be won.

I think there’s some play to the older style of rhino based plague marine lists. You could play for RND or engage or lots of other options because you can reliably be in different parts of the board with guys that are reasonably hard to shift, plus they are infantry and ob sec .

Plus more importantly, what I mentioned about souping has some play into the current two big meta armies. Tau and Custodes. Emperor's children being able to get off an almost guaranteed charge out of deep strike will create some problems for Tau. And if we have many units coming out of deep strike or strategic reserve doing secondaries. This creates a problem for Custodes too because they want to clump together into one big deathball. Custodes don't have the number of bodies to spread out over the whole map trying to stop engage on all fronts and/or RND. Especially not if they need to worry about our Blightlord deathball in the middle too.

If we insist on staying pure DG, against custodes, they will just hang back and shoot us with 10 salvo missiles every turn. And same for Tau who will just hang back and shoot us with their entire army as we lumber up the field slowly.

Sooooooo the Lord Of Virulence......
Dead on arrival or something that someone managed to exploit? Most I've gotten out of him is Blightlords using the Virulent Rounds Strat and Deathshroud. He just seems to have limited applications for his additional aura...

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Sooooooo the Lord Of Virulence......
Dead on arrival or something that someone managed to exploit? Most I've gotten out of him is Blightlords using the Virulent Rounds Strat and Deathshroud. He just seems to have limited applications for his additional aura...

Giving him Arch-Contaminator in a Mortarion's Chosen Sons list might work well.

The wording on the Strat to turn the Plague Spewer into a 2D weapon doesn’t specifically list “twin plague spewer,” get a ruling for the TO or your friends before trying to use it with him. IMO it works on him just fine as a twin plague spewer surely is a plague spewer, but I digress.

His Arch Contaminator aura doesn’t affect himself either, so dropping in win Deathshroud is probably the way to use him, with the Viscous Death upgrade on the spewer.

I’m a huge fan of spitters, spayers, spewers etc vs all variants of space elves and tau.

Hey guys, playing in a 2V2 event with my son in May, I’m responsible for a 1000 point list to pair up with his 1k of Salamanders. What does 1k of Deathguard look like? I can take a single detachment for free.

 Brymm wrote:
Hey guys, playing in a 2V2 event with my son in May, I’m responsible for a 1000 point list to pair up with his 1k of Salamanders. What does 1k of Deathguard look like? I can take a single detachment for free.

Well for a tournament like that you'd want to compliment his force. What does his composition look like?

My boy is using an all Primaris force of the Salamanders named dude Agrax, most likely double Redemptor dreads, two min squads of assault intercessors, and two squads of eradicators.

He has some plays to move things around, and has access to outriders, flamestorm aggressors, repulsor, blade guard and various command characters.

One variant is basically doing a repulsor rush of putting Agrax, blade guard AND aggressors in a repulsor and just driving/advancing as far forward as possible turn 1. Either way, he’s got an aggressive force.

 Brymm wrote:
My boy is using an all Primaris force of the Salamanders named dude Agrax, most likely double Redemptor dreads, two min squads of assault intercessors, and two squads of eradicators.

He has some plays to move things around, and has access to outriders, flamestorm aggressors, repulsor, blade guard and various command characters.

One variant is basically doing a repulsor rush of putting Agrax, blade guard AND aggressors in a repulsor and just driving/advancing as far forward as possible turn 1. Either way, he’s got an aggressive force.

And a smaller elite one from the sounds of it. Perhaps the boring but solid Blightlord bomb with a supporting HQ? For holding ground you could go Poxwalkers to the max you can.

So from what I gather, the current competitive META has forced us back into almost requiring 3 PBCs because they're probably our best model and are up there with some of the best tanks. Of course the Tau are gonna probably be an issue in that regard but in general I think 3 PBCs are still relatively standard list wise.

And it sounds like Poxwalkers don't secure objectives anymore so using CSM as a soup and including cultists instead is the way to get around that limitation. Which kinda makes me not too anxious to build and paint my 20 poxwalkers.

So 3 PBCs are still kind of standard in competitive meta it seems?

I'm finishing up painting 5 Blightlords and I'm looking at my pile of shame to decide what I should build and paint next from a competitive POV, I have a PBC already built and painted, and I have 2 PBC still in the box. Also got a another box of Blightlords and a Morty. I plan to build and paint it all but I'm thinking that 5 Blightlords are enough for fielding purposes if I desire it in the current meta, and that I should build and paint my two other PBCs instead of another box of Blightlords so that I can get closer to being more competitive for local gaming.

I currently have 20 plaguemarines, a Foetid Blight Drone with plague spewers, a PBC, 6 Deathshroud Termies, a Lord of Contagion, a Malignant Plaguecaster, and now 5 Blightlord Termies painted.

Alright dudes!
Doubles event in May with the boy, my 1k of DG is actually a mixed spearhead!

Any reason this isn’t legal?

Great Unclean One (exalted) Endless Gift, Plaguefly Hive, Revolting Resilient

2x Plague Marines (5 man) plasma/blight launcher

3x Plagueburst Crawler

I’m using Poxmongers just for the strat (which in practice is actually awesome).

 Brymm wrote:
Alright dudes!
Doubles event in May with the boy, my 1k of DG is actually a mixed spearhead!

Any reason this isn’t legal?

Great Unclean One (exalted) Endless Gift, Plaguefly Hive, Revolting Resilient

2x Plague Marines (5 man) plasma/blight launcher

3x Plagueburst Crawler

I’m using Poxmongers just for the strat (which in practice is actually awesome).

You actually won't get access to the Poxmongers stratagem with this list sadly. You have to have a valid Death Guard detachment to choose a plague company and only a Plague Company Detachment can get access to their stratagem. For that reason you actually won't have access to any stratagems (as faction stratagems are also only unlocked when you have a valid detachment of that faction) aside from the default ones like CP reroll etc.

WOW! Dataslate came out today.

Short of it,

Harleys and Tau got nerfed

Indirect Fire cept for guard = -1ap +1save

Blightloards and Deathshroud got ObSec

Everything in Power armor causes -1ap to dmg against them.

So our toughness stacks well with the power armor buff, but now PBCs mortars aren't as sexy but now our Termies can grab objectives.

What do you guys think?

Very strong buffs.

PBCs with the points drop are ok because you were often getting in line of sight of at least one thing to shoot your entropy cannons at them and they benefit from the Armour of Contempt buff (as do all other vehicles).

Blightlords and Deathshroud are much better, effectively a 1+ save. Not sure about the extra 13 points for a DS vs a BL now that bodyguard is much weaker. But I still like them. LoC & LoV are also benefitting from this.

First chance I get I'm proxying 30 BLs with all the buffs.

The Troops slot remains a game of take as little as possible.

Probably the funniest thing for DG/TS/CSM/SM though is that Volkite Contemptors just got a buff! AP0 weapons that do MWs were born for this meta!

EightFoldPath wrote:


The Troops slot remains a game of take as little as possible!

IDK with the power armor buff Plague Marines might start showing up in bigger numbers again

 Darkmatter wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:


The Troops slot remains a game of take as little as possible!

IDK with the power armor buff Plague Marines might start showing up in bigger numbers again

Not when the Terminators have OS too.

Somebody will have to mathhammer the Terminators VS the plague marines. But plague marines are quite hard to shift, and you need something in the troop slot. (Ironically cultists also got tougher?)

DG cultists do not have the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword, so no extra armor for them.

Yes, I think plague marines are now under-rated. They now effectively have a 2+ armour save. And in cover, they have a 1+ armour save now. They are seriously a pain to shift.

But blightlords now having obsec is huge too. That big blightlord bloc marching up to the center to take the center objective. You can't just kill the squishy obsec and throw your own obsec onto the point anymore. You have to DEAL with that 10 man unit of blightlords. And they are even more durable now. If they are in cover... good luck trying to kill all 10 lol.

I think people need to experiment with this. But the boost to DG's durability from the new armour of contempt and giving obsec to our DS and Blightlords is not a small thing. Its a huge boost to DG.

And people say our PBC got nerfed cos out of LOS shooting got nerfed. But consider that because of armor of contempt, our PBC is now even more tanky. They effectively have a 2+ save against anything with a AP1 or more. This is on top of having a T8 and disgustingly resilient and a 5++ for against melta shots. Why even bother hiding our PBC out of line of sight. Just put it right out in the open and welcome anyone that wants to shoot them.

 Jidmah wrote:
DG cultists do not have the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword, so no extra armor for them.

Spawn do however get it which is hilarious


Land raiders may actually be decent or a bit worthwhile
Even against melta they still will get a 5+ armour save.

Levithans will be even more tanky as well thanks to this which is amazing

My first game (just a casual game against Ad Mech) using armour of contempt and it felt like a massive buff. My marines were significantly more durable and I actually had some units still on the table after 5 turns!

I’m totally doing it! I’m playing a Land Raider in my team event in May! Will report!!!

Played a friendly game against Aeldairi at the weekend.

It was a friendly list he took. Basically rangers in troops and lots of shuriken weapons on everything else (couple of guardian squads and windriders). 2 farseers, and aurtarch, Fire dragons and Dark Reapers
Had traits to always remain stationary, and shuri weapons hit on 6 auto wound with a 6.

Armour of contempt was very much needed. Kept a lot of my models around when they would otherwise have died.

Despite it being nowhere near a power list, it still dealt so much damage. His issue was that he was too squishy and we were on a small board, so it was hard for him to use his speed.

Anyway waffling. Just wanted to really say that armour of contempt is a great buff.

I'm still painting up a couple PBCs so I can have 3 but it's looking more and more like my other box of Blightlords is gonna be next so I can have a 10 block of super stink bois.

I haven't played a competitive game in decades

What are the best secondaries for us to plan around these days?

Depends how you play, you can play for To The Last just about every game if you use 3 PBCs and no terminators. But then again, what does that list look like?

If you use haulers or drones you can play for engage? I’m not entirely sure what DG are doing right now, besides not dying. 10 Blightlords won’t be dying too often in a game, controlling the center of the board is probably going to happen all game, so maybe Domination (or whatever it’s called, control 3 and more than the opponent).