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Careful, it can be hard to tell when someone’s joking online in a post.

The word Nazi tends to be thrown around hyperbolically, and in this thread it’s like a firework waiting to go off.

I don’t believe we have “open” Nazis or their supporters here. The ban on politics is there for a reason, it’s all too easy to *hyperbolically* accuse anyone further to the right of your personal politics as being a Nazi and again, hyperbole just sets a fire.

No Nazi support on this site.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

 Irkjoe wrote:
I always thought that this place was good at keeping the politics out.

Actual fething nazis DONT BELONG IN THE COMMUNITY.
Nazis (and their defenders) should be kicked from any and all gaming circles.

Hold up, aren't they a minority?

..... What exactly are you saying Eonfuzz?

 Blndmage wrote:

 Irkjoe wrote:
I always thought that this place was good at keeping the politics out.

Actual fething nazis DONT BELONG IN THE COMMUNITY.
Nazis (and their defenders) should be kicked from any and all gaming circles.

The issue is that certain people don't understand that "Actual Nazis" doesn't mean anyone and everyone who disagrees with their political beliefs and does not share their culture values...

"Actual Nazis" im pretty sure are/were hiding out in remote corners of Argentina if some documentaries is to be believed
And I doubt they are on dakka forum probably too busy trying to do their nazi things and hide from the world in case they get put onto trials and put away for the remaining few years of their wretched lives...

My grandparents on my dads side met in a camp and my Grandmother cried whenever she heard German spoken on TV/Movies and such till the day she died.
Id love to see what people claim is "evidence" of someone being "An actual Nazi" coz I have a feeling they don't appreciate what that really means...

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Hold up, aren't they a minority?

Quite a small one, given the Nazis were defeated decades ago, and what constitutes a so called "Nazi" in 2020 is basically anyone who doesn't subscribe to the Twitter group think.

 Argive wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

 Irkjoe wrote:
I always thought that this place was good at keeping the politics out.

Actual fething nazis DONT BELONG IN THE COMMUNITY.
Nazis (and their defenders) should be kicked from any and all gaming circles.

The issue is that certain people don't understand that "Actual Nazis" doesn't mean anyone and everyone who disagrees with their political beliefs and does not share their culture values...

"Actual Nazis" im pretty sure are/were hiding out in remote corners of Argentina if some documentaries is to be believed
And I doubt they are on dakka forum probably too busy trying to do their nazi things and hide from the world in case they get put onto trials and put away for the remaining few years of their wretched lives...

My grandparents on mt dads side met in a camp and my Grandmother cried whenever she heard German spoken on TV/Movies and such till the day she died.
Id love to see what people claim is "evidence" of someone being "An actual Nazi" coz I have a feeling they don't appreciate what that really means...

There are members of the 40k community who are indeed pro-Nazi. obviously not members of the german Nazi party during the 30s and 40s. but clearly influenced by them and peddling support for them. I'm not saying there are any here but you occasionally hear stories. mostly they're people who don't understand the satirical aspects of 40k and think the IoM sounds like a wonderful idea

And the only time anyone makes a big deal about that amazingly small (as to be essentially nothing) group is when dumb-ass articles get written about the alt-right "infiltrating" 40K.

But, to echo what was said above, "actual Nazis" is a term that is increasingly losing its meaning as we expand the definition of "Nazi" more and more to just encompass people who disagree with us politically.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And the only time anyone makes a big deal about that amazingly small (as to be essentially nothing) group is when dumb-ass articles get written about the alt-right "infiltrating" 40K.

But, to echo what was said above, "actual Nazis" is a term that is increasingly losing its meaning as we expand the definition of "Nazi" more and more to just encompass people who disagree with us politically.

that's been the case for ages. I've once commented that Nazi is used politically the same way Mary sue is used to discuss fiction. it';s mostly used as a way to instantly say "I dislike this, it's bad and anyone whose not an aweful person will dislike it too"

I think this recent tangent is walking on thin-ice. The lack of those type discussions is one of the best things about Dakka Dakka. So with respect, could we cease discussion of it? Thank you very much.

So they're just stories that you heard, phantom nazis out there in the ether. You don't have any confirmation but you know they're there? I cannot imagine anybody that fits your description not being avoided by everyone around them. Thank you for saving the entire warhammer community though, I might not have known not to play with nazis without you taking it upon yourself to tell me.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

 Irkjoe wrote:
I always thought that this place was good at keeping the politics out.

Actual fething nazis DONT BELONG IN THE COMMUNITY.
Nazis (and their defenders) should be kicked from any and all gaming circles.

Hold up, aren't they a minority?

..... What exactly are you saying Eonfuzz?

If I remember correctly someone was all about protecting minorities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irkjoe wrote:
So they're just stories that you heard, phantom nazis out there in the ether. You don't have any confirmation but you know they're there? I cannot imagine anybody that fits your description not being avoided by everyone around them. Thank you for saving the entire warhammer community though, I might not have known not to play with nazis without you taking it upon yourself to tell me.

Socialists and Commies are the real problem on forums. You never know where they're hiding...

Well said Saturmorn!

Just to put something constructive... everyone should go start a post with something positive. Be the change you want to see!

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I think this recent tangent is walking on thin-ice.

Nah man. We's sinking, and fast.

Has it ever occurred to any of the GW simping "No! No! No! No negativity in my hobby! If there's a problem we just have to wait for GW to sell us another book to fix it" faction that a lot of complainers do it because...

...they're just as passionate about the hobby? But aren't as blindly devoted to the corporation behind it?
They want to see things made better, see things improved, because they love the aesthetic, the setting, the community and the game itself, and they want it to be realized to the potential that it deserves.

At this particular point in time, anyone sceptical about GW has really very little to be optimistic about. 8th started out really pretty well, and was broadly quite positively recieved as a ruleset, but fell victim to outrageous power creep and churn-and-burn rules releases, with IH and the unbalanced attention of PA being the endnote of what had started out as a pretty good edition. It had it's flaws, it's CP batteries, and a few early wombo-combos like storm ravens, gulliman assault cannon razoback parking lots and guard CP generators, but at the very beginning? Very, very okay.

9th has arrived, prepped for a much earlier release than it got, and... like, it's really, really not good at all. Points values are a mess, people have already been able to make combos like the hand-holding daemon princes - from a gaming scene that is mostly in quarantine - having been promised "the most play-tested edition EVER" by a community team that engages with fans via a pretty unflinching deletion of all negative comments, and only interacting with sycophants.
So-called negative fans then wait for model releases, that they are really genuinely excited for, only to see eye-watering pricetags, meta-bending rules, or the odd silly model with a goofy pose, or some overdesigned gimmick.

I'll agree, the constant New thread where we are all rude and try to prove that actually I'm smarter than you because of some boring logical/semantic flaw in your argument I'm drawing attention to, rather than meaningfully engaging with your points is tiresome to see, and there are a really persistant cohort who take what seem to be quite personal spats into too many threads.

But like, if you want some positivity, just pop into painting and modelling? If you want a mindless hugbox, go to any official GW page. They don't let anyone complain for too long.

<Retracted>

Intersting point raised above.

For me, it's been frustrating because of the promise I saw - and still see! - in 9th. Shortly before the announcement, my friends and I were discussing what we'd want to see in a new edition, and they largely nailed it. It was a good healthy tweak that gave the design team a few more balance levers to pull and players a few more tactical options. That's all we really needed with 8th.

And what's this? NECRONS and SISTERS OF BATTLE featured in the launch trailer? Those are quite literally the only factions I've ever built models for! This is awesome! One last Psychic Awakening book (with Necrons and Sisters again!), and then it's off to a new edition, and new units, and I can't wait to get some games going with my friends. I was really, really excited.

... but since that high point, GW's really done just about everything they could to diminish that joy. The PA book didn't have new rules for my armies, the only two left without new stuff. The Indomitus box gave Necrons a bunch of new units, but they don't slot in particularly well - whereas Eradicators were a must-take from a moment their statline leaked. The points update was so disappointing and disjointed that you had playtesters out there clarifying that they didn't have anything to do with it and didn't agree with it. There are already FAQs of FAQs, because some of the rules were immediately and obviously broken. Then it gets announced that Space Marines - the faction that spent the back half of 2019 destroying tournament tables so thoroughly that GW had to drop multiple nerfs - are also getting both tougher AND harder hitting. Oh, and also, even more new units.

And here's the thing: I know most of this doesn't matter, long term. Necrons are getting their new codex and a big rebalance pass, and hopefully a better "identity" as an army. Sisters will, with any luck, not be far behind (I kid, I kid - we all know they'll be last). Points will be updated and adjusted. FAQs happen regardless. And honestly, glad I didn't have to buy a PA book three months before it became outdated.

But excitement and passion tend to go hand in hand. It's hard not to use hyperbole when something you really like and really enjoy keeps disappointing you. These are unforced errors on the part of GW - they didn't have to release 9th right now, they didn't have to rush the points out the door, they didn't have to completely switch up Space Marines when every. other. faction. wants to feel like they matter and have an identity and purpose and can be played before their Codex comes out.

That's all a long way to say - "I agree, with reservations." Celebrate the things you like. Rage about the things you don't. Hyperbole isn't the enemy, here - it's toxicity, and building an environment that people don't want to join or stay in. That's the only way we all lose, in the end. Everything else is just temporary.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Has it ever occurred to any of the GW simping "No! No! No! No negativity in my hobby! If there's a problem we just have to wait for GW to sell us another book to fix it" faction that a lot of complainers do it because...

...they're just as passionate about the hobby? But aren't as blindly devoted to the corporation behind it?
They want to see things made better, see things improved, because they love the aesthetic, the setting, the community and the game itself, and they want it to be realized to the potential that it deserves.

At this particular point in time, anyone sceptical about GW has really very little to be optimistic about. 8th started out really pretty well, and was broadly quite positively recieved as a ruleset, but fell victim to outrageous power creep and churn-and-burn rules releases, with IH and the unbalanced attention of PA being the endnote of what had started out as a pretty good edition. It had it's flaws, it's CP batteries, and a few early wombo-combos like storm ravens, gulliman assault cannon razoback parking lots and guard CP generators, but at the very beginning? Very, very okay.

9th has arrived, prepped for a much earlier release than it got, and... like, it's really, really not good at all. Points values are a mess, people have already been able to make combos like the hand-holding daemon princes - from a gaming scene that is mostly in quarantine - having been promised "the most play-tested edition EVER" by a community team that engages with fans via a pretty unflinching deletion of all negative comments, and only interacting with sycophants.
So-called negative fans then wait for model releases, that they are really genuinely excited for, only to see eye-watering pricetags, meta-bending rules, or the odd silly model with a goofy pose, or some overdesigned gimmick.

I'll agree, the constant New thread where we are all rude and try to prove that actually I'm smarter than you because of some boring logical/semantic flaw in your argument I'm drawing attention to, rather than meaningfully engaging with your points is tiresome to see, and there are a really persistant cohort who take what seem to be quite personal spats into too many threads.

But like, if you want some positivity, just pop into painting and modelling? If you want a mindless hugbox, go to any official GW page. They don't let anyone complain for too long.

I agree I think a lot of it stems from frustration.
People who are passionate get very frustrated with things they love to do suffering from being made crap seemingly on purpose or at best through utter incompetence.

However I think the speed of FAQ correcting and stuff has really gone through the roof. So its a positive, in lew of getting it right first time. Any QA system would not stand for this if it was an actual product or anything else other than toy solidiers...
Which is in turn frustrating because it seems to show some people clearly care about the game and balance but for some reason the big picture just seems to fall flat. Its like watching a blind mouse walking into walls trying to get the cheese..
I mean its not really 9th edition is it. its just a very big FAQ slapped on top of 8th edition. But I suppose thats what all "editions" that build on previous ones are?

GW is slowly learning. In past editions, the silly loopholes from not testing properly like the daemon prince super friends would have gone unfixed for months or years. In this edition, they did fix it soon after release - and embarrassingly they created worse problems than they fixed by bungling the fix- but then they also fixed their fix quickly too, after the community told them how to not fail at it.

"Just fix things the way the community suggests to you after you can't fix it right yourself on your own" isn't a very high bar, but it's one they would have failed to hit in past years. So it is progress.

yukishiro1 wrote:
You quoted the wrong person. That guy is basically the opposite of me, always calling for people to be banned because they disagree with him.

Apologies

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I think this recent tangent is walking on thin-ice.

Nah man. We's sinking, and fast.

This thread was already sunk it's just drilling straight for the core now.

Well, this thread went to some strange places.

I will point out that we see a similar cycle with every new edition - People tend to focus on the changes they don't like rather than those that they do, and for a while we get an increase in posts complaining about how the new edition is the death of 40K and dissecting all of the reasons for that to be the case. It will die down as people start actually playing the new rules. Unless, obviously, this time the game actually is completely ruined. Time will tell.


I would say the same thing I try to remind people whenever the discussion of the forums being 'too negative' comes up, but it was already stated here:

 greatbigtree wrote:
Well said Saturmorn!

Just to put something constructive... everyone should go start a post with something positive. Be the change you want to see!

Meanwhile, time to close this one down before it spirals any further into silliness.