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Dudeface wrote: Place bets, if Eradicators aren't core, no rerolls any more.
You mean no more Shoot Twice? We already know if they aren't CORE rerolls will be few and far between if not entirely absent.
I think it's more likely they are CORE than not CORE though. If Terminators are CORE - and that was one of the example units that would be - then I can't see how Aggressors and Eradicators wouldn't be. If they're the Primaris analog to Terminators they'd need to be CORE, if they're just regular Devs and such in upgraded Armor, they'd still be Core?
If terminators are core (which they apparently are), and gravis are core, then the question becomes what -wont- be core, other than tanks. Cos terminators and gravis are extremely powerful and elite units, so if they're included then most things would be.
I've seen people questioning if wraithguard would be core, but they are effectively the eldar terminators so I can only assume ... well nothing, cos it's GW.
Dudeface wrote: Place bets, if Eradicators aren't core, no rerolls any more.
You mean no more Shoot Twice? We already know if they aren't CORE rerolls will be few and far between if not entirely absent.
I think it's more likely they are CORE than not CORE though. If Terminators are CORE - and that was one of the example units that would be - then I can't see how Aggressors and Eradicators wouldn't be. If they're the Primaris analog to Terminators they'd need to be CORE, if they're just regular Devs and such in upgraded Armor, they'd still be Core?
depends, terminators are basicly a "super tactical marine" GW might wanna keep the core thing to troops and units that are effectively "vetern troops" but yeah we dunno for sure. My gut is it'll be, for marines, infantry bikes and dreads that have it. because GW has always envisioned those units as the core of a marine army
Warhammer Community - Emphasis mine wrote:The Core keyword is used to identify units that form the fighting… well, core, of an army. These are most commonly represented by units of line infantry, though this doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to Troops, nor just Infantry.
In the case of the first two books, Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Necrons many Elite units such as Terminator Squads and Lychguard, as well as Fast Attack units like Bike Squads and Tomb Blades, have the Core keyword. Even some Vehicles will be Core units too, where appropriate.
Now they specifically mention Elite, Troops, and Fast Attack. No mention of HS. Maybe Heavy Support Infantry doesn't get it, but if not, that's going to be fun to watch. I don't think they're dumb enough to exclude Heavy Support slot Infantry, and there's no way for GW to rationalize including Termies but not Aggressors, Intercessors but Not Aggressors, Heavy Intercessors but not Devs, Devs but Not Hellbalsters, or Devs but not Eradicators. If Gravis are Elite Primaris (i,e. Primaris Terminators) how come old marine terminators get it but not the new ones? If Gravis are just regular Primaris in thicker armor, why do they get it in Mark X Tacticus, but not Mark X Gravis? Its the same guy with the same brain in the armor. If it's not (almost) all infantry the mental gymnastics they're going to have to go through would score a perfect 10 at the Olympics.
Dudeface wrote: Place bets, if Eradicators aren't core, no rerolls any more.
You mean no more Shoot Twice? We already know if they aren't CORE rerolls will be few and far between if not entirely absent.
I think it's more likely they are CORE than not CORE though. If Terminators are CORE - and that was one of the example units that would be - then I can't see how Aggressors and Eradicators wouldn't be. If they're the Primaris analog to Terminators they'd need to be CORE, if they're just regular Devs and such in upgraded Armor, they'd still be Core?
If terminators are core (which they apparently are), and gravis are core, then the question becomes what -wont- be core, other than tanks. Cos terminators and gravis are extremely powerful and elite units, so if they're included then most things would be.
I've seen people questioning if wraithguard would be core, but they are effectively the eldar terminators so I can only assume ... well nothing, cos it's GW.
not really. the only thing they have going for them is durability. in terms of raw FIREPOWER terminators and heavy intercessors aren't a huuuge upgrade. if I was worried about re-roll auras from a design POV Id consider terminators less potentially problematic then hellblasters.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
If terminators are core (which they apparently are), and gravis are core, then the question becomes what -wont- be core, other than tanks. Cos terminators and gravis are extremely powerful and elite units, so if they're included then most things would be.
I've seen people questioning if wraithguard would be core, but they are effectively the eldar terminators so I can only assume ... well nothing, cos it's GW.
I've already predicted Wraithguard will be CORE. The tanks won't be. We've seen most of a new Speeder sheet, and they were (as yet) not.
Each of the Big Four Marines had their own XXXXX Squad flavor at the beginning. Ultras - Tactical, BA - Assault, DA - Terminators, SW - technically Devastator (Later morphing into Terminators and/or Assault/Tactical Sword Brother hybrids) To remove CORE from one of those Flavor Squads at the same time they're already likely to lose a lot of their unique flavor units/bits/etc is an unlikely move.
Looking at Lists I imagine the CORE units will be non-character Infantry, the handful of Infantry plus SWAT bomb robot artillery (Thunderfire Cannons, Eldar Support Weapons, Mek Guns, and so on but not Earthshakers, Whirlwinds, etc), potentially walkers, and some iconic large models that are either bad, or would be bad without a boost, or otherwise might cause some consternation if not included - Leman Russ (which already at times have ObSec), Monoliths, Knights.
I'm also predicting Guilliman gets reworked and/or to lose his <IMPERIUM> ability just to prevent parking lots from both entrances.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 06:07:37
Breton wrote: I don't think they're dumb enough to exclude Heavy Support slot Infantry, and there's no way for GW to rationalize including Termies but not Aggressors, Intercessors but Not Aggressors, Heavy Intercessors but not Devs, Devs but Not Hellbalsters, or Devs but not Eradicators. If Gravis are Elite Primaris (i,e. Primaris Terminators) how come old marine terminators get it but not the new ones? If Gravis are just regular Primaris in thicker armor, why do they get it in Mark X Tacticus, but not Mark X Gravis? Its the same guy with the same brain in the armor. If it's not (almost) all infantry the mental gymnastics they're going to have to go through would score a perfect 10 at the Olympics.
Kelly and Cruddace managed to rationalize primaris and ugly squats having allergy to each other transport vehicles. Which was comically dumb already in 8th, but is just plain stupid in 9th when both have same statlines (and doubly so with Deathwatch, who can transport BIKES in theirs but reiver is somehow too heavy or something ). So, yeah...
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I've been saying since it was announced that we can expect core to apply to infantry bikes and dreads. because thats what GW sees as the core of space marines. course remember that this is the same design philophsy which had marines getting their CTs only applying to infantry, bikes and dreads so the cynic in me says when some armies (guard and CWE for example) get revised for 9E GW won't bother to impliment the core key word at all
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
You mean Reece, who said "Ork Stompas will be the best" and "Grey Knights are perfect even if they get a Smite nerf", might have been LYING?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
You mean Reece, who said "Ork Stompas will be the best" and "Grey Knights are perfect even if they get a Smite nerf", might have been LYING?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
You mean Reece, who said "Ork Stompas will be the best" and "Grey Knights are perfect even if they get a Smite nerf", might have been LYING?
Even a broken clock yadda yadda.
If that's really the analogy you need to use then there's a problem. Taking ANYTHING Reece says as even potentially true is just a bad idea.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: If that's really the analogy you need to use then there's a problem. Taking ANYTHING Reece says as even potentially true is just a bad idea.
I think he's enthusiastic, but people have honed in on a couple of his statements from very early in 8th and people like to burn him in effigy just like how Matt Ward eats babies.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Just saying game mechanics wise - charging them with a tank is great. Transhuman not going to be too helpful there ether - because that unit is never shooting again anyways. Erads can't fall back and shoot and tanks can shoot into their own melee and can keep recharging them when they fallback. Fellblade is t9 also. A unit of erads does very little to a fellblade.
Warp talons will shred them though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/21 15:45:00
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Just saying game mechanics wise - charging them with a tank is great. Transhuman not going to be too helpful there ether - because that unit is never shooting again anyways. Erads can't fall back and shoot and tanks can shoot into their own melee and can keep recharging them when they fallback. Fellblade is t9 also. A unit of erads does very little to a fellblade.
Warp talons will shred them though.
A Feelblade is also ridiculously overpriced.
Also, 10 Warp Talons (1 attack, +1 for first round of combat, +1 for dual Lightning Claws, and the Champ gets a singular extra one too) do...
31 attacks
63/3 hits
315/27 or 35/3 wounds
70/9 failed saves, for two dead and one wounded assuming no FNP
So, for more than twice the price of three Eradicators, you can almost kill a squad! Assuming, you know, you can charge them. It's definitely possible (I believe Warp Talons can get up to +4 to a charge out of Deep Strike) but is it worth it?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Just saying game mechanics wise - charging them with a tank is great. Transhuman not going to be too helpful there ether - because that unit is never shooting again anyways. Erads can't fall back and shoot and tanks can shoot into their own melee and can keep recharging them when they fallback. Fellblade is t9 also. A unit of erads does very little to a fellblade.
Warp talons will shred them though.
A Feelblade is also ridiculously overpriced.
Also, 10 Warp Talons (1 attack, +1 for first round of combat, +1 for dual Lightning Claws, and the Champ gets a singular extra one too) do...
31 attacks
63/3 hits
315/27 or 35/3 wounds
70/9 failed saves, for two dead and one wounded assuming no FNP
So, for more than twice the price of three Eradicators, you can almost kill a squad! Assuming, you know, you can charge them. It's definitely possible (I believe Warp Talons can get up to +4 to a charge out of Deep Strike) but is it worth it?
Well they would kill the eradicators in melee in their next turn. Also IDK if you are factoring in DTTFE.
Agreed - fellblade costs too much. It's maingun is fething garbo too.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
JNAProductions wrote: Assuming, you know, you can charge them. It's definitely possible (I believe Warp Talons can get up to +4 to a charge out of Deep Strike) but is it worth it?
No longer since the Vigilus stuff is out. Here's hoping that stuff makes an appearance in the new book.
Are LC going to S5? I don't recall seeing them on a leaked sheet.
Also Talons are in a really weird place for points right now that is most likely incorrect.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Just saying game mechanics wise - charging them with a tank is great. Transhuman not going to be too helpful there ether - because that unit is never shooting again anyways. Erads can't fall back and shoot and tanks can shoot into their own melee and can keep recharging them when they fallback. Fellblade is t9 also. A unit of erads does very little to a fellblade.
Warp talons will shred them though.
Yes, they can't fallback and shoot, unless they're Ultramarines, right Xeno? You're also still assuming that there's only one squad to deal with, eradicators are pretty cheap for what they do, no reason not to bring another squad.
And those warp talons will shred them, but that's 270 points of my best assault unit, that should be in your lines doing to your infantry what those eradicators are trying to do to my armour, to deal with 120 points of eradicators.
As I've said repeatedly, I have no problem with eradicators rules, they're just too cheap. Otherwise all this play and counter play you describe sounds quite fun and engaging, and I'm sure I'd enjoy it.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Just saying game mechanics wise - charging them with a tank is great. Transhuman not going to be too helpful there ether - because that unit is never shooting again anyways. Erads can't fall back and shoot and tanks can shoot into their own melee and can keep recharging them when they fallback. Fellblade is t9 also. A unit of erads does very little to a fellblade.
Warp talons will shred them though.
A Feelblade is also ridiculously overpriced.
Also, 10 Warp Talons (1 attack, +1 for first round of combat, +1 for dual Lightning Claws, and the Champ gets a singular extra one too) do...
31 attacks
63/3 hits
315/27 or 35/3 wounds
70/9 failed saves, for two dead and one wounded assuming no FNP
So, for more than twice the price of three Eradicators, you can almost kill a squad! Assuming, you know, you can charge them. It's definitely possible (I believe Warp Talons can get up to +4 to a charge out of Deep Strike) but is it worth it?
Well they would kill the eradicators in melee in their next turn. Also IDK if you are factoring in DTTFE.
Agreed - fellblade costs too much. It's maingun is fething garbo too.
That is my bad-I always forget DttFE.
That increases damage by 7/6ths, for a total of 490/54 or 245/27, just BARELY enough to kill the Eradicators (assuming no FNP).
Which is... Probably WORSE for the Warp Talons, actually. If they're Night Lords and an Eradicator survives, you can stop them from falling back, meaning you have to get charged to do anything. With all the Eradicators dead, there's no protection, meaning you're looking at (currently) 10 T4 3+ wounds to survive. (Soon to be 20.)
And there's still the issue that you dropped 270 points and probably some CP to kill one 120 point squad.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Did you guys really think Eliminators wouldn't be core when Terminators were revealed as core?
No, but I'm quite curious as to whether Reece is blowing smoke up our asses about Aggressor nerfs and since CORE isn't it then what and does that also apply to Eradicators.
Well considering the source... Seriously, maybe aggressors lose their double shoot? Don't know.
As far as eradicators, I never really factored rerolls into their effectiveness. When the codex drops loyalists will be limited to one captain per detachment, are they going to relegate that captain to units that need to get within 24 to be effective against their targets? Eradicators seem almost tailor made for the new tactical reserves rules, they want to get in deep into your lines. That's what I think makes them good, they're effective without character support. I'm more worried about the strategems that will still affect them if they get the CORE keyword, 9 T5 3+ wounds with Transhuman Physiology tacked on them will be an aggravation to get rid of. Maybe we'll get lucky and that won't make it into the new codex, but I doubt it. Gw likes messing with the wounding table too much.
Just charge them. Their threat range is in reasonable charge range for almost any unit if they coming in from the edge of the table. Charge them with a tank! Even better.
Yes, flattening them with the Fellblade they came to kill would be quite satisfying, but with Transhuman Physiology it ain't happening. Better to just feed them to the Warp Talons. And that's still assuming there's only one squad of the little buggers.
Just saying game mechanics wise - charging them with a tank is great. Transhuman not going to be too helpful there ether - because that unit is never shooting again anyways. Erads can't fall back and shoot and tanks can shoot into their own melee and can keep recharging them when they fallback. Fellblade is t9 also. A unit of erads does very little to a fellblade.
Warp talons will shred them though.
A Feelblade is also ridiculously overpriced.
Also, 10 Warp Talons (1 attack, +1 for first round of combat, +1 for dual Lightning Claws, and the Champ gets a singular extra one too) do...
31 attacks
63/3 hits
315/27 or 35/3 wounds
70/9 failed saves, for two dead and one wounded assuming no FNP
So, for more than twice the price of three Eradicators, you can almost kill a squad! Assuming, you know, you can charge them. It's definitely possible (I believe Warp Talons can get up to +4 to a charge out of Deep Strike) but is it worth it?
You forgot your DTTFE sir.
Also remember we're talking Night Lords (or at least I am), so 1CP gets you a 3D6 charge out of deepstrike, and another gets you +1 to hit those now L7 eradicators.
Otherwise fully agreed on all points, especially about Fellblades being massively overpriced.
@Daedalus: Lightning claws are still strength <user> according to the leaked build sheets we've seen.
Ultras can fall back and shoot at -1. Even as successors they can do it for 1 CP. Tactical prowess man...what can I say...
In all fairness any advantage gained by ultras fall back and shoot ability is lost in losing all the other great special rules you could have had. Like imperial fist super bolters...or Ironhands FNP. If guess their suicide erradicators aren't bad.
I fully expect erads to go up to 135/150 pints per unit.
@Daedalus: Lightning claws are still strength <user> according to the leaked build sheets we've seen.
Laaame.
I coulda sworn I saw them buffed in some capacity.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 16:44:32
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: Ultras can fall back and shoot at -1. Even as successors they can do it for 1 CP. Tactical prowess man...what can I say...
In all fairness any advantage gained by ultras fall back and shoot ability is lost in losing all the other great special rules you could have had. Like imperial fist super bolters...or Ironhands FNP. If guess their suicide erradicators aren't bad.
I fully expect erads to go up to 135/150 pints per unit.
If they don't a single is going to be weaker than a power sword in a lot of respects. Only a pair would be better, but then you're paying more points. Ugg.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 16:46:35
). So, yeah...
Eldar- 4436 pts
