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Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Kithail wrote:
I have a question for the marine critics. If eradicators had just a melta gun plus a Thunder Hammer with gravis profile. Would they remain broken?
People would not take them because its an equipment combo you aren't looking for but a 15 point thunder hammer and a 10 point melta gun leaves 15 points for t5 3w 3+.
Still to cheap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 19:58:26


 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Any one who is remotely objective can see Eradicators were and remain an overpowered and underpointed unit.

The only reason to be happy with them is if you like to use that kind of unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 20:29:58


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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 Ordana wrote:
 Kithail wrote:
I have a question for the marine critics. If eradicators had just a melta gun plus a Thunder Hammer with gravis profile. Would they remain broken?
People would not take them because its an equipment combo you aren't looking for but a 15 point thunder hammer and a 10 point melta gun leaves 15 points for t5 3w 3+.
Still to cheap.


I am wondering because I think eradicators are a rare addition to the primaris roster. I thought the main issue with the primaris lineup was the lack of melee options, and indomitus for sure was kind of prepared to deal with that. Think about it, a melee captain, a melee lieutenant, a melee new HQ, a new melee opción for troops, a new melee elite, outriders though they have shooting it is mainly a melee fast attack threat.

And then in the middle of it you have this unwarranted unneeded shooty unit that happens to be broken, and maybe if it was a more mixed melee threat it would...be bettersuitedforthe set. And perhaps less broken.
   
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 Mr Morden wrote:
Any one who is remotely objective can see Eradicators were and remain an overpowered and underpointed unit.

The only reason to be happy with them is if you like to use that kind of unit.


Funny thing is, I think they would have been relatively fine had they been a special/heavy weapon trooper for Intercessor units. Basically the new heavy weapon trooper for the primaris 'tactical' squad.
At 1 per 5 models and no double tap it wouldn't be much of an issue.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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 Kithail wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Kithail wrote:
I have a question for the marine critics. If eradicators had just a melta gun plus a Thunder Hammer with gravis profile. Would they remain broken?
People would not take them because its an equipment combo you aren't looking for but a 15 point thunder hammer and a 10 point melta gun leaves 15 points for t5 3w 3+.
Still to cheap.


I am wondering because I think eradicators are a rare addition to the primaris roster. I thought the main issue with the primaris lineup was the lack of melee options, and indomitus for sure was kind of prepared to deal with that. Think about it, a melee captain, a melee lieutenant, a melee new HQ, a new melee opción for troops, a new melee elite, outriders though they have shooting it is mainly a melee fast attack threat.

And then in the middle of it you have this unwarranted unneeded shooty unit that happens to be broken, and maybe if it was a more mixed melee threat it would...be bettersuitedforthe set. And perhaps less broken.


It's inclusion in the set has no bearing on its effectiveness.

But if you want to stay on that topic, BGV and Outriders are also aggressively undercosted.

If not much else changes about Marine rules and all 3 of these units go to 3-6 in terms of squad sizes then hoooo boy. It's gonna be rough. For everyone else.
   
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Voss wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Any one who is remotely objective can see Eradicators were and remain an overpowered and underpointed unit.

The only reason to be happy with them is if you like to use that kind of unit.


Funny thing is, I think they would have been relatively fine had they been a special/heavy weapon trooper for Intercessor units. Basically the new heavy weapon trooper for the primaris 'tactical' squad.
At 1 per 5 models and no double tap it wouldn't be much of an issue.


Yeah that might have worked.

The double tap should be a stratagem at the very least - its def the sort of rule that it would be.

Unless there is a further strat boost in the Codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 20:50:14


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
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Bristol

 Mr Morden wrote:

Unless there is a further strat boost in the Codex.


Oh, that is a given.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

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Mira Mesa

Cornishman wrote:
 Oaka wrote:
Cornishman wrote:
A problem inherent to evaluating the performance/ efficiency of Eradicators is the nature of their double tapping. A situational double tap is always going to be tricky to price. Depending on the opposition and how the game develops the restriction of having the concentrate fire all fire on a single target may come up a lot, or a little.
Spoiler:
Thus, it’s not surprising to find them, on the basis of 6 shots vs other 6 shot platforms looking good. However, those other platforms have the options to split fire any which every way you like. This is massively advantageous for the alternatives when faced with already injured targets, or an environment with multiple smaller targets rather than facing single big target. In the situation where you think you’ll need a few melta shots to finish off one of a number of targets, with eradicators you can double that to 6 shots, to make sure one of those is really dead but doesn’t allow you to split fire and potentially take out 2 (or more) of those viable targets.
This isn’t to say that the overall package isn’t attractive, (T5 3W…. 40pts).
However, how attractive would it be on the basis of only single melta shot for each of thus 40pts? Nowhere near I bet.
Thus, we would seem to end up in the situation you’d expect for a conditional bonus, in that Eradicators are rather over costed in situations where they only get a single shot each, and a bit of a bargain when they get to double tap.
Does this actually happen, though? If you need two units dead then you take two units of Eradicators. It's like saying if an unclaimed objective is 9" away from either Eradicators or Fire Dragons, then the Fire Dragons have a massive advantage. Sure, I guess.
So 2 units allows you to pump 2 targets with upto 6 shots each, it doesn't allow you to put 3 shots into each of 4 targets. I haven't had the chance to play 9E yet but based on experiences of nearly previous every edition it certianly will occur. How often is a completely different question, an is impossible to answer - The answer depends firstly on what you are up against and secondly on how the games gone (is your target of choice taken no damage or are you just after finishing them off).
In practice, it just isn't the case that you split fire with the Eradicators. A squad of 3 has just enough average damage that they'll kill most vehicles in one volley. Because you take them in such small increments, it's rare to the point of contrivance that you'd want to split one squad's damage across multiple targets. Instead, like Oaka says, you just have multiple squads of Eradicators. Most competitive lists are running 3 or 4 minimum sized squads of Eradicators.

The problem is that their role isn't a specialization, it's a cornerstone of list requirements: kill tanks (and monsters). They're extremely efficient at a very general role; there's no opportunity cost to taking them, you'd take something like them anyway. In fact they're so efficient they free up space to bring other stuff.

To the original post, there's a lot of issues that keep the comparison from being apples to apples. Landspeeders give up victory points in Bring It Down, for example. The big important point is that Eradicators have good enough threat range and durability, while grossly more damage than other platforms. You say 4 versus 6 shots as if it isn't much, but it's a 50% damage increase. Two Landspeeders with Multimeltas deal an average 8 or 9 damage to a T7 vehicle, which won't kill it. A squad of Eradicators deals 12+ (up to 15.5 with buffs), which does kill it. That is a game changing difference.

The reason Eradicators are so reviled is simple. No other unit is as efficient and effective at such a common role. It simply breaks all the pricing conventions that balance the game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/30 21:06:06


   
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 Kithail wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Kithail wrote:
I have a question for the marine critics. If eradicators had just a melta gun plus a Thunder Hammer with gravis profile. Would they remain broken?
People would not take them because its an equipment combo you aren't looking for but a 15 point thunder hammer and a 10 point melta gun leaves 15 points for t5 3w 3+.
Still to cheap.


I am wondering because I think eradicators are a rare addition to the primaris roster. I thought the main issue with the primaris lineup was the lack of melee options, and indomitus for sure was kind of prepared to deal with that. Think about it, a melee captain, a melee lieutenant, a melee new HQ, a new melee opción for troops, a new melee elite, outriders though they have shooting it is mainly a melee fast attack threat.

And then in the middle of it you have this unwarranted unneeded shooty unit that happens to be broken, and maybe if it was a more mixed melee threat it would...be bettersuitedforthe set. And perhaps less broken.
Primaris had a huge lack of AT shooting. The only unit was the Hellblasters. They 'needed' a Devastator type unit if you look at the Primaris roster in isolation.
Also a set with nothing but melee units is not great.
   
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 Ordana wrote:
Primaris had a huge lack of AT shooting. The only unit was the Hellblasters. They 'needed' a Devastator type unit if you look at the Primaris roster in isolation.
Also a set with nothing but melee units is not great.
Oh great, you made me realize GW is going to release a different Primaris Heavy Support for each kind of gun. Hellblasters have plasma, Eradicators have melta. My money is on 'Annihilators' with rapid fire Lascannons next. Then maybe 'Demolishers' with Grav Cannons. Finally, in a few years, they'll merge them all into one entry with options to switch all the guns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 22:16:43


   
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 Crusaderobr wrote:

Uh, sorry to burst your bubble, but I do not think a single Eldar player thinks that Fire Dragons are garbage. 10 Melta shots into a tank coming out of a Waveserpent will put a huge dent in just about anything. Second, Eldar players will obviously see what GW will do with the 9th edition Eldar codex so no worries.


Eldar player here. Dragons aren't "garbage," but they're also not "good;" at least not in a competitive sense. 10 melta shots will, in fact, average a lot of damage against most monsters and vehicles out there. Coming out of a wave serpent, it will also cost a little over 400 points iirc. So you have a 230 point unit with the same durability as a 10 wound sisters of battle squad that needs you to dedicate a ~200 point transport or a deepstrike stratagem to get them in position.

Serpents are a good unit well worth their points. However, by putting 10 dragons in there, you're not using them to deliver your better units or to protect your squishy semi-mandatory troops. Taking wave serpents is always a good idea, but spending their transport capacity on dragons is a little more iffy. Because we don't get to disembark after moving like impulsors can, you're probably not getting your dragons in position to shoot until turn 2 meaning your opponent may well have an opportunity to blow up your serpent. Normally, concentrating all that firepower at such a durable unit could potentially be a bad call, but the fact that it plus its cargo of dragons is 400+ points suddenly makes that a not so bad idea.

Deepstriking only costs you 1CP, but then you'r at the mercy of your opponent's ability to screen you out from your preferred targets. So if on turns 2 and 3 your opponent has some cheap screens standing 3.1" away from their tanks, your deepstriking dragons will not be able to shoot said tanks. And they really need to shoot a high value target because they're a 230 point unit with no real baked in defense beyond a 3+ armor save and the option to spend 2 CP for a -1 to hit. You generally get a single turn of offense with them, and then they're exposed and easy to remove with small arms fire or shutdown by tagging them in melee.

So basically, they're a high-cost high-risk medium-reward unit.

In previous editions, a min-sized squad of dragons had a pretty good chance of blowing up the first tank they looked at. In 8th, they decided to make vehicles more durable (fair enough), but that meant that a small squad of dragons couldn't reliably kill their target. So now they're in this awkward spot where they're not survivable enough to get a second round of attacks, not killy enough to do their job in a single round of attacks, and expensive enough that they quickly lose their efficiency and become too easy to shut down if you take a larger squad of them.

Sometimes I use them in friendly games and they do okay.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
I don't see a Fire Dragon problem with Eradicators.

In fact, Eradicators have finally given a Fire Dragon solution.

Thanks to Primaris marines all running the same gear, I can finally get my eldar counts-as Marines without any trouble.

And Marines are brutally and overwhelmingly supported, so I'll never be waiting on Eldar adjustments again.


Not sure if you're joking, but honestly? I get it. I briefly tried using Blood Angels rules in 5th edition when my eldar were finally in rough enough shape. XD

Eradicators look cool, and I'm glad marine players have a new shiny to enjoy. It just chafes that every single primaris kit that comes out could have been an update to our ancient aspect warrior kits. Every primaris lieutenant could have been a phoenix lord. And when the elevator pitch for the primaris kit is, "A squad of elite specialists equipped with uniform weaponry whose advanced tech and training makes up for their small numbers," you can't help find yourself looking over at the dragons on your shelf.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 22:41:46


 
   
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 Bosskelot wrote:
Let's just ignore how Marines invalidate GSC, Tyranids, Orks, Guard and Necrons as armies.
That's the best bit of Internet Hyperbole I've seen at Dakka for a while...

   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Bosskelot wrote:
Let's just ignore how Marines invalidate GSC, Tyranids, Orks, Guard and Necrons as armies.
That's the best bit of Internet Hyperbole I've seen at Dakka for a while...

I mean if he thinks about Hard counter Units and availability then the am dex has a lot of that ...

But honestly gsc got their Main Design Philosophy gimped by gw and then given to sm.

Which is again less an am Problem and more a gw beeing schtoopid.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Bristol

Not Online!!! wrote:

But honestly gsc got their Main Design Philosophy gimped by gw and then given to sm.

Which is again less an am Problem and more a gw beeing schtoopid.


Truth. GW has a pretty long track history of such behaviour.

Most egregious which has affected me was probably the change from 7th to 8th where all the Tau battlesuits forgot how to JSJ. Runner up to that is the great wargear cull in the 5th-to-6th edition FAQ for the Tau (prior to the 6th edition codex), which included the loss of the Target Lock, meaning no split fire for any battlesuit teams. Meanwhile the Space Wolves kept their split fire abilities on their Long Fang sergeants. Funny that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 23:12:13


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

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Not Online!!! wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Bosskelot wrote:
Let's just ignore how Marines invalidate GSC, Tyranids, Orks, Guard and Necrons as armies.
That's the best bit of Internet Hyperbole I've seen at Dakka for a while...

I mean if he thinks about Hard counter Units and availability then the am dex has a lot of that ...

But honestly gsc got their Main Design Philosophy gimped by gw and then given to sm.

Which is again less an am Problem and more a gw beeing schtoopid.


Yeah, that's also part of it. Marines have so many options and playstyles that they can sort of do most other armies' gimmicks. And when they happen to be doing those gimmicks more effectively than that army, it's quite annoying. See: GSC losing their alpha strike within a few months of turn 1 drop pods and Raven Guard splat coming out.
   
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Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...

   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.

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BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.


Please stop downplaying that your faction is a jack of all trades master of all with no serious weaknesses right now man.

I play Custodes, the other half of the two horse race of "best army in the game" that's between them and Marines. And I have no problem admitting Custodes are overbearing right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grey40k wrote:

Oh, so many factions could have used upgrades to their infantry AT instead of primaris.

How about the custodes, which have crappy vehicles (thanks, calladius nerfs...) and some 50 points per devastators with weird heavy bolters (saggitarum)? Let's be clear, against the uber prevalent primaris, eradicators are both better AT and better anti personnel than saggitarum (same wounds, same toughness, worse saves but cheaper and far better damage put).

Balance!


Custodes are at worst probably the second strongest army in the game right now, stop whining lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 03:11:50


 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.


Yeah, but why would anyone TAKE marines?

Intercessors are so much more powerful, they've had years of being crazy strong.
The only people willing to take your basic marine are the ones that aren't following the game, the meta and the sales pitch and don't deserve having powerful models at all.

Not to mention in the LORE it states the Primaris are so much more than a basic marine. For them to all of a sudden become the same strength is essentially unfair for all those that love primaris.
They should've stayed binned forever.
   
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Wyldhunt wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
I don't see a Fire Dragon problem with Eradicators.

In fact, Eradicators have finally given a Fire Dragon solution.

Thanks to Primaris marines all running the same gear, I can finally get my eldar counts-as Marines without any trouble.

And Marines are brutally and overwhelmingly supported, so I'll never be waiting on Eldar adjustments again.


Not sure if you're joking, but honestly? I get it. I briefly tried using Blood Angels rules in 5th edition when my eldar were finally in rough enough shape. XD

Eradicators look cool, and I'm glad marine players have a new shiny to enjoy. It just chafes that every single primaris kit that comes out could have been an update to our ancient aspect warrior kits. Every primaris lieutenant could have been a phoenix lord. And when the elevator pitch for the primaris kit is, "A squad of elite specialists equipped with uniform weaponry whose advanced tech and training makes up for their small numbers," you can't help find yourself looking over at the dragons on your shelf.


Not a joke. They've finally given me my 2nd edition eldar army back. Using a different codex is a small price to pay.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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BrianDavion wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
The issue is that Eradicators blow the anti-tank options of virtually every other faction in the game out of the water.

Just compare them to Fire Dragons, for example.

The fact that Marine players look at them and think 'well, they're okay, but I've got better stuff...' is neither a point in their favour, nor a point in the favour of the Marine codex in general.


Does anybody TAKE Fire Dragons?

Serious question here, last I heard fire dragons where seen as uncompeitive. it's blatently clear GW is reworking melta weapons considerably to make them better (and that eldar will get theirs when their codex comes up) so now that this is obvious... WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL COMPLAINING?

Seriously, does anyone here think fire dragons are worthwhile?


I assure you that when the day comes that I dig my Eldar cases out of storage that I will be fielding my Fire Dragons. They're my favorite aspect. I love the models. And I spent a good bit of effort painting them up. So whatever their rules at that time? I WILL use them. And they will work for me.
   
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 Eonfuzz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.


Yeah, but why would anyone TAKE marines?

Intercessors are so much more powerful, they've had years of being crazy strong.
The only people willing to take your basic marine are the ones that aren't following the game, the meta and the sales pitch and don't deserve having powerful models at all.

Not to mention in the LORE it states the Primaris are so much more than a basic marine. For them to all of a sudden become the same strength is essentially unfair for all those that love primaris.
They should've stayed binned forever.


I'm actually a fan of Primaris Marines, one of my two Marine armies is a Ultima Founding chapter (I comitted to using only primaris Marines back when intercessors sucked) so I feel reasonably confidant in replying to this myself. I don't really see anything wrong with making classic marines a bit more compeitive, intercessors vs tactical marines are now very much a "intreasting choice" (personally I think intercessors definatly have the edge but not to the point of being auto take good)

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BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.
Hmm, yeah. . . That's why a bunch of their new units have such limited choices in weapons. Very flexible.

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What the OP is missing is that Eradicators are 50-60 ppm models, not 40. They'd still be good at that price.

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 Eonfuzz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.


Yeah, but why would anyone TAKE marines?

Intercessors are so much more powerful, they've had years of being crazy strong.
The only people willing to take your basic marine are the ones that aren't following the game, the meta and the sales pitch and don't deserve having powerful models at all.

Not to mention in the LORE it states the Primaris are so much more than a basic marine. For them to all of a sudden become the same strength is essentially unfair for all those that love primaris.
They should've stayed binned forever.


Primaris have had years of being crazy powerful? Try 11 months.
   
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Eradicators was a stupid move that gave ammo to those claiming that rules are being used to sell primaris kits. You can compare eradicators to any other equivalent role unit in any other army and they come ahead. Not only they have an enviable profile, they are also massively under priced.

So far we have compared them to other melta units and we see they are vastly better for similar or cheaper points (hilarious to compare them to retributors, fire dragons, or chosen), but I’ll insist in comparing them to Saggitarum. They gave a similar profile, weaker defensively and in melee, but brutally more point efficient at virtually any offensive role besides chaff clearing (and saggies are not good at that).

I can build a primaries army using exclusively units that feel under costed. Aggressors, blade guard veterans, eradicators, infiltrators, intercessors, impulsors, outriders and whatever left overs depend on the chapter. All of those options are at the top of their roles point per point. I cannot imagine any faction that wouldn’t take any of those units happily in their roster; that’s a bad thing in my book.
   
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tneva82 wrote:


That's the point...marine envy as if. When rest have to deal with having fire dragon level stuff and marines go "eradicators are bad, we have better stuff" there's a problem.


There's a difference between "They aren't good enough for this much hype" and "They're bad".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
What the OP is missing is that Eradicators are 50-60 ppm models, not 40. They'd still be good at that price.


How much is a MM speeder? MM Attack bike?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 07:34:33


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Dudeface wrote:
 Eonfuzz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the idea that they "invalidate" all other armies? C'mon...


Marines have always been about flexability. that's kinda their schtick, hyper elite troops flexable eneugh to do any number of tasks well. which is what they have, thing is with points limits marines have to choose wisely. we can't do everything at once.


Yeah, but why would anyone TAKE marines?

Intercessors are so much more powerful, they've had years of being crazy strong.
The only people willing to take your basic marine are the ones that aren't following the game, the meta and the sales pitch and don't deserve having powerful models at all.

Not to mention in the LORE it states the Primaris are so much more than a basic marine. For them to all of a sudden become the same strength is essentially unfair for all those that love primaris.
They should've stayed binned forever.


Primaris have had years of being crazy powerful? Try 11 months.


Think about the poor animals that were born in, and died during this marine meta, think about how they feel.
Tell them "Your life was only 11 months". To them it was years.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Grey40k wrote:
I cannot imagine any faction that wouldn’t take any of those units happily in their roster; that’s a bad thing in my book.


Hi, I'm the OP who didn't think much of the Eradicators. Its nice to imaginary meet you. Eradicators feel like they're going to be like Eliminators, and Suppresors once they hit the codex. So many of these 3 and only 3 units lose their luster once they hit the codex. Point for point I'll take sniper scouts over Eliminators with sniper rfles, tho the lasfusils are interesting (probably left over/expectations of a return to - armor facings). I'll take MM speeders before Attack Bikes before Eradicators. Maybe that's some left over bias from armor facings but it's also getting in range faster, and out of dodge even faster. 20+ points per shot is a lot of points for something that didn't get in firing range.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Breton wrote:
Grey40k wrote:
I cannot imagine any faction that wouldn’t take any of those units happily in their roster; that’s a bad thing in my book.


Hi, I'm the OP who didn't think much of the Eradicators. Its nice to imaginary meet you. Eradicators feel like they're going to be like Eliminators, and Suppresors once they hit the codex. So many of these 3 and only 3 units lose their luster once they hit the codex. Point for point I'll take sniper scouts over Eliminators with sniper rfles, tho the lasfusils are interesting (probably left over/expectations of a return to - armor facings). I'll take MM speeders before Attack Bikes before Eradicators. Maybe that's some left over bias from armor facings but it's also getting in range faster, and out of dodge even faster. 20+ points per shot is a lot of points for something that didn't get in firing range.


Wait until you get a bunch of games in the smaller tables properly loaded with terrain; range is far less of an issue nowadays (also, assault 2 weapons baby!).

Obviously things might change if they alter their points in the codex, but as of now they are oppressively underpriced (I already did some mathhammer for you on how they are tougher than speeders against AT, you can easily do mathhammer for how they outshoot them or bikes point per point).
   
 
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