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Cronch wrote:
ugh. The joke about "making more primaris" is literally the same they made 2 years ago about opening new Stormcast chambers. Except then it was kinda charming and followed by zero new SCE releases since. Here we actually know we'll just get more marines crammed down everyone's throats.

The heavy armor marines look neat, if again entirely redundant.
The flying brick thingy is the worst vehicle model GW ever produced, period. That includes the deo stick tank from Rogue Trader.

Yes! Because my subjective opinion is FACT! Nobody plays marines because they love marines. It’s because FW force them to, they’d all rather be playing my favourite army but GW dies release any models for it because they are idiots who hate money!

Am I doing Dakka right now?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lord Perversor wrote:
... expect them to be worth the same as the new Eldar Banshes.

Which are inexplicably 163% the price of the Wraithguard kit.

Matrindur wrote:
There has to be more coming as there isn't a way to buy a Judicar, Bladeguard Ancient, Plasmancer, Crypthothralls, Skorpekh Lord or Canoptek Reanimator with Indomitus gone and I also don't think they will put those sprues into Start Collecting boxes so there has to be new versions of them coming

You are right. I had forgotten that Indomitus had gone away.

I believe that the big multi-unit sprues from that box will, as you say, go on to be new Start Collectings.

I actually don't think they will be Start Collecting boxes as none of them have any kind of base to start collecting, the necron one doesn't even have a normal unit (I count the Cryptothralls as part of the Plasmancer) and if they put some troops or other units in there too I think the SC will get too big compared to normal ones

Unit1126PLL wrote:Yeah. I will be more comfortable if they just get Marines out of the way and then never touch them for the rest of the edition.

But I feel like that won't happen.

Unit1126PLL wrote:That's the greatest irony of it all. 30k has fewer marine books, fewer marine units, and less marine wargear than 40k.

I don't mind playing Imperium specifically. Humans are neat (and delicious for my daemons).

The fact that release slots for books are:
Marines
Non marine
Marines
Marines
Sick marines
Marines
FW including Marines

And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!

You managed to answer your own post in your vacant satirical whine the post before.

They clearly are getting the marines out the way.

I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.

I assume they’ll keep making the old marines for as long as people keep buying them, but they’ll start dropping units as soon as sales of that unit fall below some profit based threshold.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.

Yeah, it is time to cull those runts.

I’ve never really collected marines, but I’m now thinking about a small, all gravis armoured force. They have a weight and brutality that was in the Wil Rees illustrations in Rogue Trader, but I always thought was lacking in the miniatures until now.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I think the most interesting thing is that they have now more or less revealed a replacement for most standard Old Marine units, opening up for the discontinuation of the Old Marines in the foreseeable future.

I assume they’ll keep making the old marines for as long as people keep buying them, but they’ll start dropping units as soon as sales of that unit fall below some profit based threshold.

Oh definitely. If it prints money it prints money.

I imagine we'll see the fringe SM units disappear before we see the classic Tac Marine go away.

Not unexpected (actually expected DA to be this year too, so that was a surprise). Deathwatch is basically a new army now.
I really think that 2021 is going to be the year of the Aeldari. They are going to see major changes in their model line.

Are the Heavy Intercessors confirmed as troops as well?

 Grimskul wrote:
Are the Heavy Intercessors confirmed as troops as well?

Yes.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
And you think think that is a fair and even spread... that release list includes more marine books than 30k has!

This is a complete and utter nonsense seeing there are THREE equivalents of Codex: SM in 30K, plus TWENTY supplements (18 for legions, blackshields, and errants), plus all the rules in NINE black books, as compared to one Codex with nine supplements in 40K. That despite not only 40K marines being more divergent than 30K ones, but also the books combining two armies (squatmarines and primaris) instead of being just filled with 847895786 variations of tactical squad 30K has. If 40K was anywhere like 30K, you'd have 90 supplements for SM, one per each company, describing the incredible difference in rites of war between 3rd and 4th companies of Iron Hands.

Sometimes the whinge here gets so inane I am wondering if it's posted from some alternate reality, but claiming 30K is somehow better than 40K despite being several times worse takes writing from Bizarro land, not just twisted dimension

I think the 'problem' with getting marines out the way, or doing the xenos later because (maybe) they are getting range refreshes ala the Necrons is simple. It is great, if it is happening, that Eldar or whoever might be getting another large range refresh, maybe it is great that marines are being 'got out the way' to leave a clean run for none marine releases in the new year.

None of that is going to improve the gaming experiences of Eldar, Tyranid etc players in the next at least 4-5 months. The gap between those who have a codex and those who don't is going to be huge, especially for xenos, who are going to have to wait for thier codex for:

1) Any weapon profile upgrades and
2) Their army doctrine equivalent

Most armies were well behind the power curve post the 2.0 marine codex at the back end of 8th/early 9th. That is going to be exacerbated by the slew of new units, abilities and rules the new codexes (and supplements) will introduce. I'm not saying those armies without a 9th edition codex will be tabled every time but it will feel like playing with one hand tied behind your back.

I get some players are more pragmatic and might say 'well, I'll take 5-6 months of being handicapped for a large range and rules refresh. However, it is equally justified to feel miffed that the game you love to play is probably going to suck for the next half a year or more maybe because GW decided what we needed right now was even more marine books and rules.

Matrindur wrote:
I actually don't think they will be Start Collecting boxes as none of them have any kind of base to start collecting, the necron one doesn't even have a normal unit (I count the Cryptothralls as part of the Plasmancer) and if they put some troops or other units in there too I think the SC will get too big compared to normal ones

Well of course they'll put some regular units in there. I wasn't expecting those big sprues from Indomitus to be the only things in the box.

They'll probably throw in 5 Assault Intercessors and some Outriders for the Marines, and a set of EZ2B Warriors for the Necrons.

 bullyboy wrote:
Not unexpected (actually expected DA to be this year too, so that was a surprise). Deathwatch is basically a new army now.
I really think that 2021 is going to be the year of the Aeldari. They are going to see major changes in their model line.

They are currently with the oldest line with the most abundance of resin and non-plastic materials. If they don't do a rework of them in the next year or two I can just as well expect them to squat CW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I think the 'problem' with getting marines out the way, or doing the xenos later because (maybe) they are getting range refreshes ala the Necrons is simple. It is great, if it is happening, that Eldar or whoever might be getting another large range refresh, maybe it is great that marines are being 'got out the way' to leave a clean run for none marine releases in the new year.

None of that is going to improve the gaming experiences of Eldar, Tyranid etc players in the next at least 4-5 months. The gap between those who have a codex and those who don't is going to be huge, especially for xenos, who are going to have to wait for thier codex for:

1) Any weapon profile upgrades and
2) Their army doctrine equivalent

Most armies were well behind the power curve post the 2.0 marine codex at the back end of 8th/early 9th. That is going to be exacerbated by the slew of new units, abilities and rules the new codexes (and supplements) will introduce. I'm not saying those armies without a 9th edition codex will be tabled every time but it will feel like playing with one hand tied behind your back.

I get some players are more pragmatic and might say 'well, I'll take 5-6 months of being handicapped for a large range and rules refresh. However, it is equally justified to feel miffed that the game you love to play is probably going to suck for the next half a year or more maybe because GW decided what we needed right now was even more marine books and rules.

I agree on many points. I am currently just playing my Death Guard(which does make me happy that their codex refresh is on the way), but it saddens me that my CW and Drukhari are very boring to play now, especially in this power armor meta. Almost every single person in my larger play group is now some sort of Power Armor except maybe one Tau player. Otherwise it is Space Marines 90% of the time and then I am there with my Death Guard.

Just caught up to everything in the preview, and... I've gotta say I'm really hyped for 2021 and beyond.

To those complaining about the Marine releases - think about it. REALLY think about it. We get supplements for the snowflake Chapters up-front and they've already said the existing supplements are compatible - so we're not likely to see new ones for Fists, White Scars etc. for a while at least. The speedy nature of those releases plus the Marines being rolled back into the core Codex tells me that they're going to be considered done with for a time - and that to me says that after the Marine catch-up is done, Xenos and Chaos get their time in the limelight. If we have Codex creep, we might even see Marines becoming the kicking-boys for other armies for a short while (until we get Marines 9th ed 2.0, at least).

But more than that - with what looks like another aggressive Codex release schedule, we might well get a new faction or two towards the edition's end. Look at what happened with the last few editions - once all the existing Codexes got done and dusted to catch people up, we got Knights, Chaos Knights, Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, Sisters AND Custodes. That's a slew of factions that some people thought would never see the tabletop - and apart from arguably Custodes, none of them are Marines. (...let's... NOT talk about Ynnari, eh.)

I'm also happy that Death Guard are coming first and early in a wave of other releases, because it means they're not likely to change much... leaving more room later for World Eaters and/or Emperor's Children to finally get their own books.

Yeah, the tournament scene, whatever is still left, is going to be even more stale until new codices come out in the new year.

Surprisingly good preview, with some very nice (and completely unexpected!) models, and a good look into the next few months to boot.

Far better than expected (I'll have to see if the crows are back later this afternoon, when I want an afternoon snack).


Only real negative was the messed up heavy intercessor datasheet (and it being overly complicated in the first place)

SOoo... RAW, the Ophydian Destroyers have 6 attacks despite their profile being A3.

Allocate 2 attacks using Hyperphase threshers = 3 total attacks with the threshers.
Allocate 1 attach using Ophydian claws = 3 total attacks with the claws.

 Crimson wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
4 new kits of slightly different marine.

That's very nice.

Indeed. This is exactly what I hoped and expected to see. All the new primaris models look superb, and I'm very exited.

No multipart bikes though? That's a bit strange.

I wouldn't rule out a multi-part Outrider kit coming out alongside the DA next year - not saying I know it'll happen, just that I wouldn't rule it out.

I think the only real disappointment in the preview is that we didn't get to see the other 3 (I think) models from the last preview's teaser video - AdMech, DE & Ork, wasn't it?

Right, I get it, but like, why?

Why release new Primaris marines in the edition box, new Space Marine codex, new Space Marine supplements, new Space Marine models, all in one blob, and then drop them for 2 years?

My claims are:
1) This is a new business model and it really is all space marines all the time - no one will get released without having a slew of SM alongside them
OR
2) This is a really dumb way to release things, because it gives Marine fatigue to people like me AND neglects the people that like marines for like 2 years since everything is already done so THEY get to watch a parade of releases that isn't exciting for them.

Surely, it would be best to sprinkle marine releases out among the other releases.

The Chronomancer looks to confirm that the Finecast Cryptek is going away now for sure as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Of course, still no replacement for green-rod Destroyers...

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Crypteks are awesome! Psychomancer, Chronomancer, Plasmancer...and I wonder what will count as the one with canoptek cloak?

Cloakamancer?

Basketballmancer?

 Dysartes wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Of course, still no replacement for green-rod Destroyers...

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Crypteks are awesome! Psychomancer, Chronomancer, Plasmancer...and I wonder what will count as the one with canoptek cloak?

Cloakamancer?

Basketballmancer?

It's a Technomancer now.

So... we're up to 98 SM codex entries, now...

 oni wrote:
SOoo... RAW, the Ophydian Destroyers have 6 attacks despite their profile being A3.

Allocate 2 attacks using Hyperphase threshers = 3 total attacks with the threshers.
Allocate 1 attach using Ophydian claws = 3 total attacks with the claws.

Yes, six attacks (or 5 for the big blade), but no- You don't have to 'allocate' specific weapons to get the bonus attacks, they just happen each time the bearer fights.

1 model has the reap-blade, he gets 3 attacks with that (plus more on 6s), plus 2 claw attacks
2 models have the threshers, they get 4 attacks with that (3+1) plus 2 claw attacks.

 oni wrote:
SOoo... RAW, the Ophydian Destroyers have 6 attacks despite their profile being A3.
Allocate 2 attacks using Hyperphase threshers = 3 total attacks with the threshers.
Allocate 1 attach using Ophydian claws = 3 total attacks with the claws.

Yeah, certainly looks like it. The twist being of course that you end up using both weapon profiles to get the extra Attacks, but that's not exactly a hardship.
I guess the intent was to have 6 Attacks intentionally, but split between the weapon types so that you're forced into using both and not just allocating every attack to the threshers. But it sure as hell looks complicated on the datasheet, and I hope it's not an indicator of things to come for other units and Codexes.

Glad to see space wolves along with the imperial armour book are on their way.. hopefully there with be rules in the book for the old guard laser destroyer and atlas recovery vehicles.

I'm liking the Heavy Intercessors solely for the fact I'm using Boarding Shield Marines as my Intercessor stand-ins. With everyone being at W2, it seems like the perfect entry to use for the shield representing extra toughness. I don't like their Sergeant not getting options just based on that preview but I guess I'll have to wait for the codex and see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
So from this we can gather that the next few codex releases are

Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Black Templar, Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Chaos Space Marines, Spears of the Emperor, Charcarodons, Marine Codex V2, Blood Angels V2, Space Wolves V2, and so on.

I mean realistically they never have to print another Xenos dex ever again at this rate.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuh what was previewed for Carcharodons???

Nothing he was just joking about spam marine supplements instead codex for other armies non Marine.

Also i find curious that the Heavy Intercessors are weapon locked by the Heavy bolter. you are locked to the basic weapon with the Heavy bolter or get the Special Heavy Bolters and be able to swap everyone else weapons.... (expect an Errata soon after codex hits )